Ok I know that this topic has been rehashed over and over again for the NFL, college football and basketball, etc., but Sports Talk seems that it needs a jolt of energy and discussion. It seems a little boring right now. I hate coming on here, and refreshing 30 minutes to an hour later, and not see any new posts. So I say we break this topic down for real. I'm talking logical explanations, and whittling the stadiums/arenas down to a concise top 25 list that the majority of people can agree on. We'll also honorably mention the 5 that just missed the cut. We can start with college football since it's just under three months away, we'll move on to basketball later. I think we should first get a list of the top 5 toughest places to play in the BCS conferences, since those are the ones that have the largest venues and usually the most passionate fans. We'll throw in Notre Dame as the one independent school that really matters. Here's my nominations. Tell me if you agree then we'll match them all up against each other. Hopefully the SEC doesn't dominate as much as I think it will.

ACC
1. Clemson
2. FSU
3. VT
4. NCSU (Clemson players and a number of others have mentioned C-F as a great atmosphere and a tough place to play, so hopefully there isn't arguing here on a State message board that we belong behind the top 3, a distant fourth but still)
5. ? (Miami maybe when they play UF, FSU, or FIU <-- )


Big East
1. WVU
2. SU
3. UL
4. RU (if Schiano continues to have results like last year, and they expand the stadium like planned, there will be no argument that they belong behind the other top 3 in the BE; the UL game is proof that it can be a decently loud venue)
5. USF/Pitt (take your pick)


Big Ten
1. OSU
2. PSU
3. UM
4. MSU
5. UW


Big XII
1. TAMU
2. Nebraska
3. UT
4. OU
5. KSU


Pac 10
1. Oregon
2. SC
3. Washington
4. Cal
5. Arizona State

SEC
1. UF
2. LSU
3. Tennessee
4. Auburn
5. Alabama


Independent
Notre Dame

6/9/2007 8:05:57 PM

I agree for the most part, except I might have VT either 1 or 2 in the ACC and the SEC all depends on which games. Florida should definitely be #1, its amazing, then after that I would have LSU #2 most of the time but for really big games UT would be #2 (place is retarded for Florida, Georgia, Bama, but kind of blah for Vandy, Kentucky etc.).

The big thing about Florida is that it isnt the loudest (been to several places louder, UT, LSU especially) but its really fucking organized. Every damn person is yelling the same thing so its not just general noise but actual words, phrases etc. Its an amazing thing to experiece if you havent.

[Edited on June 9, 2007 at 8:24 PM. Reason : d]

6/9/2007 8:23:18 PM

VT and Clemson are 1A and 1B......then FSU, then I'd say its us, then u add in the Maryland/GT/UVA/BC/Miami(they could be higher, but when u can't sell out the orange bowl, and are not very loud when u do..) crowd....then you throw in UNC.....then you throw in Wake Forest....then you throw in Duke.

So my list would look like

1A. VT
1B. Clemson
3. Florida State
4. NC State
5. Georgia Tech
6. Miami
7. Maryland
8. UVA
9. BC


10. UNC

11. Wake Forest






12. Duke

6/9/2007 8:32:08 PM

Yeah, that's one thing about UF, the way it's organized that makes it so tough. The top 3 in the ACC are a little interchangeable. I was a little disappointed in Clemson when I went down there. I mean it was loud, but it wasn't like VT. Then again though the 04 game against VT was more intense. So that may have been one factor. I'll give Clemson this, during 04, I witnessed the longest sustained booing of my life at the end of the 1st half of the State vs. Clemson game. I imagine UT can get pretty loud considering there's 104k people in there, and the stands seem to rise just straight up out of the ground. The thing here though is finding the stadiums with the crowds that most consistently bring it on gamedays, and cause the o-line to jump, the QB to not play well, the punter/kicker to fuck up, etc. more often than not.


I wouldn't put GT too high, they don't sell out all that much, probably due to their small alumni base. I know the OB isn't that tough most of the time, but when UF and FSU come there, that place rocks and starts to sway. Maryland while usually having loud fans, have a stadium that doesn't trap in noise very well, and the students are fairly far from the action, b/c most of their section is situated in the curved part of the lower bowl. Traditional bowl stadiums don't have the fans in the endzones right on top of the action due to the curve, unlike at UF, FSU, CU etc.

[Edited on June 9, 2007 at 8:40 PM. Reason : ]

6/9/2007 8:35:20 PM

I would put Wisconsin above Michigan State

And VT ahead of FSU

6/9/2007 8:47:59 PM

Clemson is an awesome environment, but it didnt strike me as intimidating or all that tough. I've never been to a night game though, maybe its more intimidating at night?

6/9/2007 8:48:24 PM

^id say just about anywhere is more intimidating at night for a few reasons:

1. More time to drink
2. More time to drink
and
3. More time to drink

6/9/2007 8:51:04 PM

but the clemson crowd was too nice

6/9/2007 8:53:23 PM

UNC is ahead of BC because of stadium size....and that god damn crowd noise they pump in and the bell that rings on 3rd down to initiate people getting crazy cause they're too stupid and lazy to do it themselves. (maybe that has nothing to do with making it tough to play, but it sure was annoying as fuck to me)

6/9/2007 9:17:35 PM

Clemson vs. GT game last year was fucking incredible as far as atmosphere and one of the greatest Clemson games I've ever seen. GT couldn't do shit and Calvin Johnson didn't make a single catch. Of course Clemson followed that up with a lackluster Thursday night performance against VT but everyone saw that coming.
Miami at Clemson back in '05 was the loudest game I've ever been to (reached 126 decibels at one point during OT).

I hate the artificial bell noise WF pumps in when they're on defense. That shit kills my ears.

[Edited on June 9, 2007 at 9:27 PM. Reason : grrr]

6/9/2007 9:26:27 PM

As someone who has been to games at most of those ACC stadiums, I would have to say VT is number 1.

Number 2, I would say FSU, Clemson has two "open" ends of the stadium. I understand one end it now closed but the stands don't meet the sides and noise escapes. The noise at Florida State comes from EVERYWHERE and it can be nearly unbearable.

6/9/2007 9:46:21 PM

Quote :

"Clemson has two "open" ends of the stadium. I understand one end it now closed but the stands don't meet the sides and noise escapes"

LOL!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP7J09nu1Po

way to be wrong

6/9/2007 9:57:23 PM

Miami should be ranked better. They do have the NCAA record for consecutive home victories (58 I believe.)

[Edited on June 9, 2007 at 10:02 PM. Reason : changed the number]

6/9/2007 9:58:14 PM

night definitely helps, C-F is way more louder for night games, i think its more of an atmosphere type thing, it just feels more intense at night

6/9/2007 10:05:32 PM

i think now that wf is good, their crowds can get pretty raucous

i have watched us lose to them twice in w-s and the 2nd time, 2yrs ago i think, they got pretty loud and never let the state fans overwhelm them.

6/9/2007 10:57:37 PM

I don't remember it being that loud down on field during the FSU game, not noticeably louder than anywhere else.

granted it was just against us, during the FSU/MIA or FSU/FLA its probably nuts.

6/9/2007 11:10:05 PM

^^I went to a couple games their last season. Their place is just way too small to ever get super intimidating.

The second game I went to, I waited too long to get tickets so it was standing room only for $3 a ticket. I went back to my friend to find out if she thought I could squeeze into seating with her, and she said it was cool...so then I went to get my ticket and they wanted $40 for standing room only.

I decided to sit in her car and get way too wasted by myself instead.

[Edited on June 9, 2007 at 11:15 PM. Reason : sss]

6/9/2007 11:14:46 PM

^^^^^^ I have grown to really hate that video. No doubt about it that that Miami game was loud, 126 decibels loud. First off they have the TV volume real low and then they turn up the crappy audio captured by some crappy digital camera that anyone can go buy. It's not like it was the same footage and audio from professionals like ABC. Then some stupid, redneck Clemson fan started proclaiming on the internet that they had the loudest stadium in college, b/c they beat a 121 decibel recording at LSU. Well if they would have done a little bit of research they would have discovered that ABC and ESPN had decibel measurements back in the early 90's at the University of Washington's Husky Stadium that were at 130 and 135 decibels. They put it on Wikipedia and everything, citing some comment from a fan in an article. I proved them wrong though and the truthiness of the idea that Clemson is the loudest college stadium, was disproved.

[Edited on June 9, 2007 at 11:16 PM. Reason : ^]

6/9/2007 11:15:16 PM

I said "open" and put it in quotes becuase even though they are not truely open, they aren't all the way connected on one end of the stadium and on the other end, the Hill does not match the height of the two main stadium decks along the sideline.


I do understand they are not truely open.

6/10/2007 12:02:46 AM

Ok well if no one objects I'm going to narrow the list down to around 25. In no particular order.

Notre Dame
UF
FSU
Tennessee
Texas
Texas A&M
OU
tOSU
VT
CU
LSU
Auburn
Wisconsin
Oregon
Alabama
PSU
WVU
Syracuse
SC
Washington
Nebraska
Michigan
Georgia (i know not originally in the list, but I decided to make a substitution for one of the BE/Pac 10 teams)
MSU
NCSU (Autzen Stadium of the East, small in size, big in punch , just needs the team to match it's fan's intensity) <--- homerism


Last 5 out:
UL
Cal
KSU
ASU
Iowa (despite not being in the orginal list I thought they should be mentioned)

6/10/2007 12:41:47 AM

if CU is Colorado I would take that out and put Clemson in there... I dont see how they cant be mentioned

6/10/2007 12:56:18 AM

CU = Clemson for me.

6/10/2007 1:15:25 AM

Clemson deserves to be up there when full, but their crowds are down too often to be consistently at the top. VT and maybe even FSU should be above them. In good years we may be right there with them. Miami should be last in the ACC by default, as long as they are playing in the OB. I guess you could be intimidated by your likelihood of getting stabbed/mugged on the way into the stadium.

UL/Papa John stadium is not intimidating at all. A lot of their fans are dirtbags though.

LSU seems rowdier than UF, even if both are great atmospheres in different ways.

6/10/2007 4:37:10 AM

Fear the Big House, 110,000+
how can you have them third in the big ten, that alone makes this list rubbish.

6/10/2007 4:56:49 AM

Happy Valley and the Horseshoe are both tougher places to play than "The Big House"

6/10/2007 10:14:21 AM

Ohio Stadium - 101,000
Beaver Stadium - 107,000

both can get louder than Michigan though b/c of the design of the stadium. the stands for both are at a steeper angle. couple that with the fact that many of the Michigan Stadium season ticket holders have been there since it opened, and the crowd loses a little bit in terms of raucous atmosphere. think UNC's Dean Smith Center, especially when it first opened. Having the most people doesn't always equate to having the loudest, and toughest place to play. Look no further than Oregon's Autzen stadium. The Michigan Daily was quoted in an article regarding Autzen Stadium: "Autzen's 59,000 strong make the Big House sound like a pathetic whimper. It's louder than 'The Swamp' at Florida, 'The Shoe' in Columbus, and 'Death Valley' at Louisiana State. Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." Even Michigan coach Lloyd Carr stated that Autzen Stadium was the loudest stadium he'd ever been in. I'm a Michigan fan btw.

6/10/2007 10:24:28 AM

M*ch*gan Stadium is the exact opposite of the swamp in terms of design. like Brass Monkey said, it's the pitch of the stands that creates a lot of noise, which is why despite seating 30k less, the swamp retains all the noise rather than the stands being absurdly open at scUM.

6/10/2007 10:51:06 AM

the size of michigan stadium is the only possible overwhelming thing for a visiting team

6/10/2007 10:55:27 AM

it's why Lane Stadium at Virginia Tech can get so loud. The big change happened in 2002 when the South Endzone structure was finished. It helped trap in some of the noise, and added like 12,000 more seats too. Lane was nothing more than a Groves Stadium with more raucous fans and one side higher for a long time. I think Carter-Finley is truly a tough place to play, even though it might not seat a lot of people like other big time college programs, and it just got a whole lot tougher with the NEZ to trap in noise. The stands at C-F have the smallest clearance of any stadium in the ACC. That means the opposing team is closer for our fans to make them uncomfortable. I love being in the SEZ or NEZ and berating a punter with my fellow Wolfpackers so bad that he doesn't get a good punt off. Then there was the App game this past year, where on like the first or second play the center couldn't hear the QB and hiked the ball over his head, resulting in a safety. Section 8 was representing for that game.


Michigan Stadium can get loud. I mean having that many people in one place is going to create the possibility for a lot of noise. There are videos online from the stands that make it seem like a pretty loud venue.


Ok time to start organizing the list. Can everyone agree that Florida should be at #1?

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 11:05 AM. Reason : ]

6/10/2007 11:01:05 AM

yes florida should be 1
then id actually vote for the horseshoe to be 2

6/10/2007 11:06:50 AM

Ive heard BYU is pretty tough to play at. The elevation really gets to people not used to it.

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 11:12 AM. Reason : 1]

6/10/2007 11:12:25 AM

Well I was trying to go more for ranking based on structure and fans. If we start getting into intangibles such as elevation, weather, remoteness of location etc. then why not rank BC high b/c it can get pretty cold there, or how about Miami, b/c it's crazy hot there.

6/10/2007 11:39:41 AM

The next three I nominate for positions 2-4 are LSU, tOSU, and TAMU. Which one should go where though?

Kyle Field has a lot of organized chants, and a whole side of the stadium is students. Tiger Stadium gets very loud, and has produced an earthquake. Ohio Stadium has a great design that traps in the noise, and seats more than the other two.

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2007 4:08:20 PM

ohio state... just how towering it is... is intimidating as well as those passionate fans... as far as weather... lsu would be tough to hot as osu to cold...

all in all, i hate to say... OHIO STATE at 2, lsu at 3... but i cant agree to say a&m should be up here... it might even be oregon

6/10/2007 4:30:47 PM

I've been to several of those stadiums...

Cross out Alabama and put in Georgia in the SEC but Bama is still tough. Miami has to be top 3 in the ACC, but I agree w/ Clemson & FSU. Georgia Tech only sells out when the other team buys all of the tickets.

#1 in the country is at LSU at night and it's not even close

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 4:31 PM. Reason : 1]

6/10/2007 4:30:53 PM

Quote :

"Miami has to be top 3 in the ACC"

They dont even fill there stadium half way for almost every game. The team is intimidating and tough to play, but nothing about the stadium or fan base per se makes the orange bowl a tough place to play.


ACC should be FSU, VT, Clemson

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 4:42 PM. Reason : .]

6/10/2007 4:41:20 PM

Like I said, I don't really want to throw weather and other intangibles into the equation. I want it to be soley based on the fans, atmosphere, and structure of the stadium (which can lend itself to how loud a place can get, and how intimidating it can be). If I'm a player from some school like Duke and I come out onto Kyle Field, and see those three massive decks towering above the ground, it'd be pretty hard for me to not say "damn this place is huge". That little bit just got me out of focus on the game, and made me think that this team I was playing was gonna be pretty good to have that kind of support. Success usually breeds insane crowd support, South Carolina being the exception. You can't really walk into a place like The Swamp, and such and not be impressed with it. Miami is not top 3 in the ACC. I don't even think it's debatable. They hardly sellout. 1-3 is Clemson, FSU, VT (doesn't really matter what order). Oregon got up to 125 decibels in the OU game this past year. Washington's Husky Stadium though has reached 135 decibels before.


Ok so,

1. Florida
2. Ohio State
3. LSU

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 4:49 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2007 4:47:32 PM

I completely forgot about VT. Yeah...I'd put them ahead of Miami in the ACC

6/10/2007 4:56:21 PM

although these are more based on best stadium, best atmosphere, not just toughest place for the opposing team...

http://www.msnbc.com/modules/sports/collegefootballstadiums/neyland.asp?cp1=1

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/sioncampus/09/15/best_weekends0916/

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 5:06 PM. Reason : d]

6/10/2007 5:02:00 PM

1. Florida's Ben Hill Griffin Stadium aka The Swamp - Official capacity: 88,548, Largest crowd: 90,716



2. Ohio State's Ohio Stadium aka The Horseshoe aka The House Harley Built - Official capacity: 101,568, Largest crowd: 105,708



3. LSU's Tiger Stadium aka Death Valley aka The Nation's Most Dreaded Road Trip - Official capacity: 92,400, Largest crowd: 92,664



[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 5:27 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2007 5:16:56 PM

I would have LSU ahead of Ohio State, not even close. I wouldnt have Ohio State in the top 5 even.

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 5:29 PM. Reason : d]

6/10/2007 5:22:42 PM

ok so 1 vote for LSU at #2 and one vote for tOSU at #2. guys if you can please argue your case when responding. i'm really trying to be impartial except when someone says something that doesn't make much sense, or has a flaw in their logic. my nominations are just a starting point for discussion. like besides UF i haven't ranked them, and merely just suggested which ones should be next in discussion.

^how would your top 5 look?

[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 5:33 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2007 5:32:33 PM

In terms of crowd noise for an average game (not just the "big" games), I would go:

1. UF
2. LSU
3. Texas A&M
4. UT
5. VT


In terms of just loudest place, i.e. take the loudest single time for each stadium:

1. UF
2. UT
3. LSU
4. VT
5. Oregon

6/10/2007 6:39:39 PM

Loudest game I've ever been to was 2002 FSU vs. NCSU game. Next would be 2004 NCSU vs. VT. After that, the BC and FSU games of this year as well as the 04 Miami game were pretty loud. C-F was absolutely nuts prior to kickoff. I've been to some pretty loud games against Carolina too while in C-F. 2003 UVA game was pretty good too. I hope to get down to FSU this year, then I can say that I've visited the three top venues in the ACC. VT is pretty loud, T.A. remarked that it was so loud that it felt like he couldn't even hear himself think. I was in the second to last row of the upper deck, starting all the chants up there (got WOLF...PACK and RED...WHITE going between the two sections of State fans a couple of times) and I felt the concrete stands underneath me vibrate a little. The VT fans did compliment us on the post-game radio show, saying that we were as loud if not louder than the LSU fans that visited them a couple of years prior. I would really like to get to UT, LSU, and UF.

6/10/2007 7:01:33 PM

Quote :

"In terms of just loudest place, i.e. take the loudest single time for each stadium: 1. UF 2. UT 3. LSU 4. VT 5. Oregon"

Never been to Neyland, but I've heard it's actually not extremely loud for its size.

Also, I think you're crazy for leaving out Ohio Stadium. I can't say for sure becuase I've never been to any of the three, but I'd be willing to wager The Shoe is twice as loud as Neyland and especially Autzen

6/11/2007 9:51:07 AM

^ and I would be willing to bet you are wrong. Ohio State's stadium has only gotten press the last 5-6 years or so with their resurgence, before that, under Bruce and Cooper they were a good, solid team, but never could win the big games, and hadnt done anything crazy since Woody and you never heard about the stadium being at all crazy. They arent even listed in the top 10 of either of those links...

6/11/2007 9:58:53 AM

my bias toward OSU won't allow me to have them behind anyone but Florida. Most people agree the swamp is fucking tough to play in, and I won't argue that. But after that, there aren't too many places that combine the size and shape of stadium with a consistently high performing team.

6/11/2007 10:00:15 AM

I don't see how anyone can have a top 3 not composed of LSU, UF, and Tex A&M in some order. The only argument I could see being made would be some crazy loud smaller venue like Autzen.

6/11/2007 10:09:20 AM

^b/c TA&M isn't as good of a team as the others mentioned. I think in order to be one of the top 5 toughest to play you have to be among the top 2 or 3 every year in your conference.

6/11/2007 10:10:24 AM

I think A&M would be one of the most historic venues by far as far as tradition goes.

Definetely not one of the top 5 toughest, though.

In overall rankings (history, atmosphere, tradition), i'd have it in my top 3..maybe #1

[Edited on June 11, 2007 at 10:14 AM. Reason : ]

6/11/2007 10:11:56 AM