My lease from an apartment with a hostile landlord just ended and I got my security deposit back today (about 7 days late, he mailed it saturday the 7th even though his 30 days was up at the end of June). After I posted negative feedback about the apartment/landlord in classifieds ( http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=473456 ) he called my parents(! they didn't even cosign) and tried to shut me up and then he finally manned up, called me, and threatened to sue me for slander. When I told him that he couldn't because I had e-mail evidence that all his claims were bullshit (not maintaining the apt. properly basically) he said he'd simply withhold my security deposit.

Well, he didn't withhold all of it, but he basically charged 'repair' fees into oblivion.

Move out trash hauling (4 hours) $100
Excessive kitchen cleaning $120
Excessive laundry room cleaning $30
Repair hole in laundry room door $10
Replace bent screen in sunroom 15.93
replace torn vinyl floor in kitchen 248.54[b]
[b]excessive bathroom cleaning 60
replace fan light bulbs 3.20
replace broken blind 4.02

Some of these charges are reasonable but the higher ones are obviously fabricated. The 'torn vinyl floor' which none of my roommates can even remember seeing was likely due to his refusal to repair the sink which had been broken since november. He refused to respond to any of us about repairs via email or phone. 120 dollars for cleaning a kitchen, 100 for 4 hours of 'taking out trash' (did he hire a turtle and pay him 25 dollars an hour??) and the bathroom cleaning seems stupid and not real at all.

So the basic question is, can my roommates and I do anything? I mean he basically stole 200 dollars from our 350 sec. deposit.

I have no problem paying reasonable repair fees, and I'm not trying to get out of that, but this landlord is obviously trying to fuck us over. (I had to call him to make him send our money back to us.)

7/9/2007 11:36:32 PM

Photographic evidence. You should have taken pictures of everything before you turned in your keys and before you moved in.

7/9/2007 11:39:11 PM

Always complain AFTER you have you money back.

7/9/2007 11:41:10 PM

I complained to him before I said anything to anyone else.

And I didn't want people to go through the same shit that I went through which is why I warned people here.

Also, I do have some photographic evidence, but I obviously don't have as much as I want.

I actually subletted my apartment to a friend so I wasn't there the last few months, but that guy has really bad OCD so I know my bathroom was spotless, it was spotless every time I went there to hang out with him.

[Edited on July 9, 2007 at 11:43 PM. Reason : .]

7/9/2007 11:42:06 PM

sucks but honestly its prob not worth fighting over it. all I can say is Karma is a bitch...so he'll get whats due.

7/9/2007 11:44:53 PM

yep should have kept your mouth shut until you got the money.

your only recourse now is small claims court, which for 200 bucks is probably not going to be worth the time. but you will likely win your case if you do go.

especially if he didnt give you the deposit within 30 days of vacating. You will win the FULL amount just because of that, regardless of damages.

[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 12:08 AM. Reason : .]

7/10/2007 12:06:47 AM

consider your lost deposit money the price of a life lesson:

(1) photo document everything regarding rental property, before you move in and after you move out.

(2) keep your mouth shut until you've got your money back.

7/10/2007 12:58:37 AM

Quote :

"your only recourse now is small claims court, which for 200 bucks is probably not going to be worth the time. but you will likely win your case if you do go. especially if he didnt give you the deposit within 30 days of vacating. You will win the FULL amount just because of that, regardless of damages"

i'd prob do it, but just because i'm a mean sonofabitch if you try to do me wrong, and i'll go above and beyond to fuck you up just on principle.


for example, baby's mama set up a deposition against me in her stupidass case against me. I promptly set one up against her--which would prob cost me $500--simply for the sake of being an asshole and costing her money (my position was to be the nicest guy possible as long as she worked things out with me in a civil manner and didn't try to fuck me through the court system, but not to miss a chance to hammer her and be a bastard every single time she tried to jerk me around).

7/10/2007 1:24:16 AM

keep posting shit about them, they cant really sue you for that

slander my ass

7/10/2007 2:18:11 AM

something definately will be done, i don't take well to someone stealing 200 dollars from me. I'm sure it'll take time and be a hassle, but I'm pretty sure I can get the money back and any court costs.

State law says

Quote :

"If the landlord deliberately withheld more than his or her lawful share of the security deposit, or deliberately withheld the deposit past the 30-day period, the court may award the tenant the cost of his or her attorney's fees, in addition to any other damages."

7/10/2007 7:15:54 AM

go to small claims court and win - but you are a complete idiot for complaining before you got your money back - the same reason you don't go tell the chef his cooking skills suck before you get your food...

7/10/2007 9:02:41 AM

Hindsight is 20/20, but I bet he woulda tried to take our sec. deposits even if I hadn't said anything. Not a good person/landlord.

7/10/2007 9:43:06 AM

Honestly? Make sure that all the rental sites he advertises on know about his bullshit. If you have evidence, it's not libel or slander, and frankly those are always listed as "opinion" reviews anyways which, kinda tough shit on his part.


If he's desperate enough that he's lurking classifieds and calling up parents for something possted on TWW, well, then he's one of *those* people who once they hear about , the intelligent/sane tenents will avoid.

7/10/2007 11:30:36 AM

Anyone have any lawyers they recommend that deal with landlord/tenant issues? 2 of my roommates are still State students so they may be able to use SLS but I don't know if they would represent me too, although he would have to pay my lawyer fees if I won.

7/10/2007 11:46:44 AM

If people could make $25/hour taking trash out of houses where people moved out, there would be a lot more people in that industry...

7/10/2007 11:49:37 AM

I'm curious why trash was left in your apartment...or is trash not covered by your rent and you just left it by the curb? Don't get me wrong, $100 to remove trash is crazy...but you shouldn't leave your trash in your apartment when you move out.

7/10/2007 11:57:41 AM

If he took pictures of the trash hauled, vinyl rip in kitchen, dirty kitchen, etc. he could win court and that would really suck

7/10/2007 12:00:40 PM

Quote :

"ut you shouldn't leave your trash in your apartment when you move out."

He didn't. He sublet


Some landlords find, say, a used fabric softener sheet in a closet, and take that as license to charge for trash removal.

7/10/2007 12:07:12 PM

I have little doubt that some trash was left behind in the main area by one of the tenants but I really have a hard time believing anyone other than an 80 year old man working for a union would take 4 hours and 25/hr cleaning that. The kitchen cleaning too, how can you justify 120 for cleaning a kitchen?

7/10/2007 1:11:24 PM

I wouldn't take it to court unless you think he won't show up.

I would threaten to subpoena each and every person affiliated with the landlord, including anyone in the front office. If you do it right he'll probably just give you guys some money back.

7/10/2007 1:17:01 PM

I agree that the amount they charge it outragous. I'm getting ready to move and my apartment complex gave me a list of cleaning charges that they could charge for....some examples: for cleaning the kitchen stove top, burners $80, Oven $80, Cabinets $30. Those are just to name a few. And trash removal is $50-$100 dollars per load. Since you were subleting, you should have set something up with that person about what needed to be done before he moved out. Otherwise it's not his security deposit he's going to lose, so why would he care about cleaning up the place. Maybe you should take it up with the person you sublet to...but if you didn't set up anything prior to him moving in, it will probably not do you any good. Hind site is 20/20 I guess.

7/10/2007 1:17:16 PM

The person I sublet to cleaned their share of the apartment, that is not the issue. I know the bathroom charge is bogus because the guy has OCD and couldn't use a dirty bathroom.

7/10/2007 1:22:20 PM

^^^^ well he did say it WAS excessive

[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 1:22 PM. Reason : .]

7/10/2007 1:22:44 PM

My point is what you were charged, however excessive it was, it not out of the ordinary with what some landlords will charge when you move out. Making it especially important to take pictures before and after you move out. And ALWAYS be present for the walkthrough after you move out (not that this was even offered in your case, but if it is)

landlords are going to try and get as much money as possible from you, you can't trust them.

^^but the problem being that you sublet, and you can't prove that he cleaned his share of the apartment, unless you were there when he moved out and/or took pictures.
[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 1:27 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 1:29 PM. Reason : ..]

7/10/2007 1:26:50 PM

i always just fill out that walkthrough sheet with such minute detail they couldnt possibly find somethign wrong upon moveout.

7/10/2007 1:29:58 PM

In the interest of protecting others from a similar situation, please tell us who the landlord was and where you lived.

7/10/2007 1:34:39 PM

I already linked the post advertising it for this year.

It's in university woods on the 3rd floor of the 3020 building.

here's his other post under a different alias

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=481773

from his user profile:

Real Name : Russ Copersito
AIM Name : russtang65

7/10/2007 1:42:23 PM

Quote :

"landlords are going to try and get as much money as possible from you, you can't trust them. "

Move into apartments with decent landlords and you don't have this problem. As an example, I just recently moved out of a 3 bedroom apartment. One of the roomates kept a cat that utterly destroyed the carpet in that room. In the process of cleaning the rest of the carpets, more ruined spots came up but neither we nor the landlord could tell whether the spots were pet damage or something else. Either way, she would have been well within her rights to hold us responsible for the damage to the carpets, but she didn't. We had no proof that we didn't cause that damage and in the end, it's entirely possible we did (although none of us honestly remember it). She ate the cost of replacing all the carpet except the one room we readily admit fault to. It's simply a matter of finding a worthwhile landlord.

7/10/2007 2:42:08 PM

Good landlords FTW. My landlady sent us apology cards after she raised our rent $10/month after her accountant told her that she was renting to us at ~ $175/month below market value. She rocks.

7/10/2007 2:59:50 PM

^^You can't be charged for that anyway dude.

Anytime a tenant moves out, the carpets HAVE to be replaced. Shouldnt matter if you fucking destroyed them or not.

and SkankinMonkey, take his ass to court, ESPECIALLY since a win will also net you the attorney fees and court costs.

[Edited on July 10, 2007 at 3:03 PM. Reason : .]

7/10/2007 3:02:36 PM

Quote :

"Anytime a tenant moves out, the carpets HAVE to be replaced. Shouldnt matter if you fucking destroyed them or not."

Please quote your source so everyone can rest assured that this the truth.

7/10/2007 3:29:59 PM

My landlords replacing the carpet in my room. I think its fine, but maybe there is some rule about it.

7/10/2007 3:42:03 PM

I hate dealing with security deposits... I've never had one returned without BS

I was expecially pissed when I found out one of the houses I moved out of, that was GOING to be torn down, was worth $4554 on a $238,000 lot, I had lived there for 1.5years at $775/mth and the landlord tried to keep some of my security deposit... they litterally tore down the house 6 months later and I was absolutely the last tenate... after 30 days he was forced to give up and give me my deposit back... this was particularly important to me b/c I was broke and one of my roomates had said "keep my security deposit for the last months rent" after they moved out on not so great terms...

7/10/2007 3:56:06 PM

carpets usually have to be cleaned when you move out, which is typically deducted from your security deposit...or you are required to provide proof you had them professionally done. As long as they are in decent shape, the landlord isn't just going to replace them.

7/10/2007 3:58:10 PM

Quote :

"carpets usually have to be cleaned when you move out, which is typically deducted from your security deposit."

According to Ch 42 of NC general Statutes, landlords may not use security deposits for normal wear-and-tear.

NC Rental Law

7/10/2007 4:03:32 PM

Quote :

"Anytime a tenant moves out, the carpets HAVE to be replaced. Shouldnt matter if you fucking destroyed them or not."

From Ch. 42 of GS

Quote :

"Security deposits for residential dwelling units shall be permitted only for the tenant's possible nonpayment of rent and costs for water or sewer services provided pursuant to G.S. 62-110(g), damage to the premises,(etc., etc)"

TWW is not a safe place to learn your rights, laws, etc. lol

7/10/2007 4:11:37 PM

Quote :

"Normal wear and tear and damage: The landlord can use the security deposit to repair damage for which the tenant is responsible. But the landlord cannot apply the security deposit to normal wear and tear. The question is: What's the difference? Normal wear and tear includes deterioration of the premises that occurs under normal use conditions. For example, paint may fade, electrical switches may wear out and break, pull strings on curtains may fray and snap, and carpet may wear down. These things happen even if the tenant cleans regularly and cares for the premises reasonably. Damage occurs from unreasonable use or accidents, and includes extreme build up of dirt, mold, etc., stains on carpets, and broken windows. Even planned alterations to the premises are considered damage. For example, the tenant cannot leave large holes in the walls from shelving, and cannot repaint the walls to significantly change the color. If the tenant wishes to make changes to the premises that will remain after the tenant moves out, the tenant should secure that landlord's written permission."

7/10/2007 4:17:14 PM

just fuckin slash his tires or some shit

7/10/2007 4:30:39 PM

I'd rather get my money back?

7/10/2007 4:33:51 PM

Quote :

"Anytime a tenant moves out, the carpets HAVE to be replaced. Shouldnt matter if you fucking destroyed them or not. "

Care to back that up? They have to be cleaned, just like the rest of the apartment, but I have never seen any law which requires that they be replaced. That would be entirely unreasonable.

7/10/2007 5:06:00 PM

noen has left the thread

7/10/2007 5:09:44 PM

its very likely not a law. But every (and I mean every) above bar rental agency I have ever dealt with replaces their carpets after tenants leave.

and if you know anything about carpeting, you'd know carpet cleaning does not suffice. carpet is some nasty nasty shit, especially in rental properties. I'm sure most of the ghetto collegiate complexes don't do this, but I sure as hell wouldn't live in a place where the carpets were "cleaned" rather than replaced.

It's not expensive to do either, especially for larger management companies.

7/10/2007 6:15:37 PM

iirc even preiss company replaces the carpet after a new tenant moves in.

7/10/2007 6:27:33 PM

most places will, because they are usually trashed beyond "cleaning". but they probably due it every 2-3 years.

7/10/2007 6:30:39 PM

every place ive lived in cleaned them. sometimes they would replace it, but not each and every year someone moved in.

7/10/2007 6:46:40 PM

simple solution, take pictures of the condition at move in, leave it in the same condition you found it.

7/10/2007 9:32:08 PM

When I first read this thread I was thinking about how much of an asshole this landlord of your's must be, but then you posted the name and I realized I know the son and his family and that they are good people. Of course I know nothing of your situation but I hope you get your money back or at least what's owed you.

7/10/2007 10:13:34 PM

On the landlords requiring proof that they were professionally cleaned. Ours didn't. They wanted to see cleaning lines.

So I went in there with a carpet cleaner with a cleaning agent in the tank and cleaned the bitch for a couple hours and left. We've got our full security deposit check in the mail and we repaired any damage we had caused before we left.

It was funny too, the lady called up and was like "You did a very good job! You're getting your deposit back" afterwards. I felt like I just got an A on a test or something.

It really is just up to the landlord in a lot of cases as to whether or not they're going to have some bullshit requirements. I'm sure they could be fought most of the time if you check NC law and your lease. It's just up to you whether it's worth the money/effort involved in stopping them.

7/10/2007 10:54:05 PM

Quote :

"When I first read this thread I was thinking about how much of an asshole this landlord of your's must be, but then you posted the name and I realized I know the son and his family and that they are good people. Of course I know nothing of your situation but I hope you get your money back or at least what's owed you. "

When I first met them they were really friendly, but when it came to dealing with the apartment in regards to repairs and such they were pretty hostile and defensive. When I moved into the apartment the landlord promised to repair several things in the apartment such as my windowblinds, the live electrical outlets that were hanging out of the wall (huge fire hazard) and the door next to the dish washer which was hanging off on one hinge. The only thing he ever bothered to take care of was the windowblinds which took me nearly two weeks of calls to get fixed, which he did begrudgingly while calling me names. One of my roommates actually fixed the door (why didn't we see any money returned for repairs we did?) and the outlets were never repaired. The sink also broke and caused damage to the floors, this was in november, the landlord refused to answer any of our calls or emails which made the problem worse. He constantly made his son our intermediary instead of talking to us directly which put a strain on relations inside the apartment. We wanted stuff fixed, but the only way we could even get a murmur of a response was to talk to his son, even that was not effective.


You can also see that he posted again in his advertisement thread, lol.

7/11/2007 7:33:22 AM

please link the right way

message_topic.aspx?topic=481773

Thanks

7/11/2007 9:50:53 AM