start it up

sitting around, doing nothing, collecting freedom for free

8/11/2007 1:25:40 AM

They're going to be awfully sad if they pick me.

Smart kids w/ college degrees and aisabeetus lead civilian lives.

8/11/2007 2:17:04 AM

i think i have aged out of the early parts of the draft at least.....too old and lazy to look up the details at this point

8/11/2007 4:13:25 AM

[no]

8/11/2007 8:37:45 AM

I'm perfectly willing to pair a draft with china's recent economic threats and come up with an increasingly isolationist america.

8/11/2007 8:46:50 AM

considering that most 18 year olds' parents have failed them, i don't think this is a bad idea...

8/11/2007 8:59:30 AM

8/11/2007 10:17:43 AM

i already served

8/11/2007 10:40:07 AM

If I thought that, in most cases, 'serving' in uniform would actually help defend our people and Constitution, I'd be doing that.

I'd rather not risk my life enforcing UN resolutions and settling foreign civil wars and internal conflicts.

8/11/2007 1:50:42 PM

ahahahahha

white kids

8/11/2007 2:26:01 PM

They could take the approach that Korea does where the units that they send overseas are comprised of volunteers (who are paid extra) versus the vast majority of conscripts who get to sit on the border and stare at the North Koreans instead.

8/11/2007 2:46:02 PM

Quote :

"i already served"

Quote :

"Username : Republican18 Age : 25 Sex : M"

Don't worry. you have probably 20 years of good service left in you

8/11/2007 3:19:56 PM

i do not care to waste my time and risk my life for Bush's war mongering and helping to stuff the pockets of Cheney's buddies in Halliburton

8/13/2007 12:29:44 AM

It would be an interesting situation.

I think a lot more lefties would defect from their current views.

8/13/2007 1:05:52 AM

Quote :

"It would be an interesting situation. I think a lot more lefties would defect from their current views."

really?

i would think a lot more war hawks would be tamed.

8/13/2007 1:22:32 AM

Quote :

"i do not care to waste my time and risk my life for Bush's war mongering and helping to stuff the pockets of Cheney's buddies in Halliburton"

Don't worry then. You've only got another year and change before your objections will become non-issue.

8/13/2007 9:34:22 AM

^^
woops i meant righties haha

8/13/2007 9:35:19 AM

i'd like to say that the anti-draft feelings would be stronger today even than they were during vietname

but they won't. everyone's far too lazy.

However, I do think it'll be a worse idea than it was then. With the combination of being raised by lame television and not having much responsibility, eating no nutritional food, and the shit tons of estrogen in our water supply, I'd say a non-volunteer army at this point would only happen for 6 months before they realized what an awful idea it was.

8/13/2007 9:44:29 AM

i think people are apathetic about politics today (especially foreign policy) in part because of the lack of the draft.

8/13/2007 10:14:55 AM

You will not see the draft again. I would say many people are happy about that. Freedom doesn't come cheap it cost a $1.05

8/13/2007 11:00:56 AM

yeah i don't think so either, but i do think it would make a lot of 20-somethings and parents a lot more invested in politics.

8/13/2007 11:11:32 AM

Quote :

"and the shit tons of estrogen in our water supply"

??

8/13/2007 11:15:20 AM

its too bad that the people too old to join up who WANT to join up arent allowed to...and the people who already served and want to go back in but arent allowed to...I mean, if you want to go, you should be able to

8/13/2007 11:47:21 AM

Quote :

"think i have aged out of the early parts of the draft at least.....too old and lazy to look up the details at this point"

Current draft age is 18 to 25.

Military-ready men are from 18 to 49.

8/13/2007 12:09:44 PM

The cut-off age is 45, right?

Why on earth would we take people over 45?

8/13/2007 12:10:03 PM

maybe cause they actually want to go fight for our country?

8/13/2007 12:11:22 PM

Quote :

"Why on earth would we take people over 45?"

They still have some value, particularly in non-combat positions that may benefit from people who have work experience such as procurement, logistics, maintenance, etc.

8/13/2007 12:45:54 PM

Eh, 45 is way old enough for a first time enlistment. If they are prior service I could see making some exceptions (they do grant waivers for this actually).

I think we are already pushing the upper limit. (A 42 year-old grandmother in Basic Training? ugh).

8/13/2007 12:46:49 PM

Just seems like if you are at war, and people want to serve their country, you shouldnt say "no you're too old, who cares if we need more troops"...plus 45 isnt exactly geriatric

8/13/2007 12:48:23 PM

Sure, they have value as support staff.

But that's when you hire them as contractors.

8/13/2007 12:50:54 PM

Quote :

"Just seems like if you are at war, and people want to serve their country, you shouldnt say "no you're too old, who cares if we need more troops"...plus 45 isnt exactly geriatric"

Quality Control.

8/13/2007 12:53:57 PM

how about if you could choose between having a draft, or letting people over 45 years old in? i already know the answer

just dont know why you wouldnt want as many willing soldiers as possible...i mean hell people over 45 tend to actually LIKE this country

8/13/2007 1:06:24 PM

Written Memorial Day weekend in an L.A. Times op-ed. Presenting the case for the draft.

Quote :

"By Lawrence J. Korb and Max A. Bergmann, LAWRENCE J. KORB is a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress and a former assistant secretary of Defense in the Reagan administration. MAX A. BERGMANN is a research associate at the center."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-korb26may26,0,7958579.story?coll=la-home-commentary

8/13/2007 1:08:27 PM

Anyone over 45 who is of use to the military is more than able to work for the military as a contractor.

It seems like all logistics has been handed over to the private sector, anyway.

8/13/2007 1:32:38 PM

^^Bullshit. The enslavement of my fellow citizens is rarely justified. Especially when there is still money in the treasury to bribe recruits. Join the army, earn $100k a year. Would make a great poster, and no one needs to be enslaved. Just scrap Social Security; hows that for sacrifice?

[Edited on August 13, 2007 at 1:42 PM. Reason : ^]

8/13/2007 1:39:46 PM

Its not really enslavement if you're compensated.

I mean, that is like saying that jury duty is enslavement. I'm not saying it is pleasant, but there there is a big difference between enslavement and the duties of citizenship. If we're in a war and our elected representatives vote to engage the draft, and a majority of citizens oppose the draft, then we have failed the system by allowing ourselves to be cajoled into a war we didn't really want.

8/13/2007 3:31:50 PM

Then what would you call enslavement? Is it the exchange of cash that makes it not slavery? Well, what about forms of payment in kind, such as free room and board? Slaves in the American south were given stuff in exchange for fullfilling their civic duty; a few of them were even compensated in cash and maintained their own residences unowned by their masters (artisans and specialists). Are we therefore only allowed to call field slaves "enslaved"?

Perhaps it is the act of Democracy that legitimizes forced employment. Things as they were, it is probable that blacks would have still been slaves, at least in the 18th century where they would have been a voting minority. First act of the democratically elected southern state legislature: revoke the suffrage of blacks and women and commence enslavement.

I don't care who you represent, one King, one God, one race, or a billion people; threatening to put someone in jail or worse if they don't perform whatever laborious tasks you want them to is wrong. At least taxes are somewhat voluntary, just quit your job or leave the country. Not the draft.

8/13/2007 6:00:41 PM

The draft is for a limited time with release after the end of hostilities, Service Members are entitled to the legal protections of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, they are fairly compensated and retain all legal rights of private citizens with the exception that they are pressed into military service for defense of the nation at the behest of the very congresspeople they elected. You can leave the country or request conscientious objector status if you're that opposed to it.

You can disagree with it, but it isn't slavery.

8/13/2007 6:50:03 PM

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2147052,00.html

8/13/2007 7:27:51 PM

^^ not like you can just claim conscientious observer if you dont agree with the war. you gotta jump through some big hoops.

8/13/2007 7:52:31 PM

you basically have to prove you're opposed to war in general, as opposed to a specific conflict. You're right, its not easy, but thats the point . . . they want to sort the wheat from the chaff.

^^ Thats not much of an article. War makes Soldiers tired. Ok. I'm not saying the Army and Marine Corps aren't stretched thin, they are, but that article is full of cheap journalism and adds nothing to the debate.

[Edited on August 13, 2007 at 8:12 PM. Reason : V except that indentured servitude was designed to be self-perpetuating]

8/13/2007 8:02:30 PM

compensated enslavement = indentured servitude

8/13/2007 8:05:43 PM

Quote :

"^^ Thats not much of an article. War makes Soldiers tired. Ok. I'm not saying the Army and Marine Corps aren't stretched thin, they are, but that article is full of cheap journalism and adds nothing to the debate."

I think it adds to the debate by wondering what's our long-term plan if our political leadership choose to continue being there in the same capacity considering the Army and Marines are stretched thin.

[Edited on August 13, 2007 at 8:38 PM. Reason : .]

8/13/2007 8:34:12 PM

Would the draft keep don't ask don't tell in place?

CNN's political ticker has had several articles today about the democratic response to the administrations talk of the draft.

First was:

Quote :

"(CNN)–Former senator John Edwards blasted a Bush administration official Saturday for saying it makes sense to consider a military draft. "Enough is enough," the Democratic presidential candidate said. "Let there be no doubt that the Bush administration's new talk of a draft is a profound measure of how much this President has failed our brave men and women in the military, and the American people. This is exactly the wrong way to go. Our all-volunteer force has helped make America what it is today." "

Quote :

"Clinton concerned about military draft WASHINGTON (CNN) – New York Sen. Hillary Clinton said Monday that President Bush needs to clarify recent comments from an administration official saying the military draft "has always been an option on the table.""

I think it’s too unpopular of an idea for any candidate, left or right, to consider. And Bush is too close to the end, and too low on political capital, to make it happen.

8/13/2007 8:52:40 PM

Quote :

""It's now recognized worldwide that when you go to the bathroom, estrogen goes down the toilet and eventually ends up in the environment," says Trudeau. Trudeau says even the most efficient water and sewage treatment facilities have not been designed to filter out estrogen or many other common pharmaceuticals like Prozac. His research has detected two types of naturally-occurring estrogen found in the body, and the synthetic estrogen, ethinyloestradiol, in sewage treatment outflow in Ottawa and Cornwall. He says the levels of estrogen detected at these treatment facilities are typical of those found in rivers and lakes throughout Canada."

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/weekend_extra/story.html?id=cbda099f-e824-462a-9098-eb8b94bca3f4

to clear up what i said earlier

we're all taking prozac, ritalin, estrogen... who knows what else. to a lesser extent, probably tons of psychedelic drugs and the like, too.

8/13/2007 8:56:05 PM

^ I'll be damned. Interesting.

Quote :

"I think it adds to the debate by wondering what's our long-term plan if our political leadership choose to continue being there in the same capacity considering the Army and Marines are stretched thin."

Our current state of troops is a result of prior planning from before, not future or current operations. To be honest, we've got a pretty solid leadership team over there right now and things are starting to break our way.

8/13/2007 9:36:43 PM

^^ The only reason I clicked the link was to make sure that wasn't Kevin Trudeau you were quoting.

8/13/2007 10:15:19 PM

^^haven't things been breaking our way since months after the beginning of the occupation?

i mean, yeah we'll have some military successes here and there. but if there isn't a political agreement made by the iraqis, then there won't be substantial progress.

8/13/2007 10:52:33 PM

Nah, militarily we ceded the initiative to the insurgency sometime in the Summer of '04. Partly because of the surge, partly because of GEN Petraeus' strategy, and partly due to other factors this is beginning to change.

8/14/2007 6:35:41 AM

Was driving home from work today and I heard a radio commercial with young children in the background saying the Pledge of Allegiance and reminded young men to do their national duty (and obey the law although that wasn't mentioned) and sign up for the Selective Service and go to http://www.sss.gov .

I could never recall hearing a commercial for the Selective Service before. Odd timing to say the least.

[Edited on August 14, 2007 at 5:27 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2007 5:25:18 PM