Per comptroller general of the US, the country’s top government inspector:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/80fa0a2c-49ef-11dc-9ffe-0000779fd2ac.html

Quote :

"Learn from the fall of Rome, US warned By Jeremy Grant in Washington August 14 2007 The US government is on a ‘burning platform’ of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country’s top government inspector has warned. David Walker, comptroller general of the US, issued the unusually downbeat assessment of his country’s future in a report that lays out what he called “chilling long-term simulations”. These include “dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services and the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US debt. Drawing parallels with the end of the Roman empire, Mr Walker warned there were “striking similarities” between America’s current situation and the factors that brought down Rome, including “declining moral values and political civility at home, an over-confident and over-extended military in foreign lands and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government”. “Sound familiar?” Mr Walker said. “In my view, it’s time to learn from history and take steps to ensure the American Republic is the first to stand the test of time.” Mr Walker’s views carry weight because he is a non-partisan figure in charge of the Government Accountability Office, often described as the investigative arm of the US Congress. While most of its studies are commissioned by legislators, about 10 per cent – such as the one containing his latest warnings – are initiated by the comptroller general himself. In an interview with the Financial Times, Mr Walker said he had mentioned some of the issues before but now wanted to “turn up the volume”. Some of them were too sensitive for others in government to “have their name associated with”. “I’m trying to sound an alarm and issue a wake-up call,” he said. “As comptroller general I’ve got an ability to look longer-range and take on issues that others may be hesitant, and in many cases may not be in a position, to take on. “One of the concerns is obviously we are a great country but we face major sustainability challenges that we are not taking seriously enough,” said Mr Walker, who was appointed during the Clinton administration to the post, which carries a 15-year term. The fiscal imbalance meant the US was “on a path toward an explosion of debt”. “With the looming retirement of baby boomers, spiralling healthcare costs, plummeting savings rates and increasing reliance on foreign lenders, we face unprecedented fiscal risks,” said Mr Walker, a former senior executive at PwC auditing firm. Current US policy on education, energy, the environment, immigration and Iraq also was on an “unsustainable path”. “Our very prosperity is placing greater demands on our physical infrastructure. Billions of dollars will be needed to modernise everything from highways and airports to water and sewage systems. The recent bridge collapse in Minneapolis was a sobering wake-up call.” Mr Walker said he would offer to brief the would-be presidential candidates next spring. “They need to make fiscal responsibility and inter-generational equity one of their top priorities. If they do, I think we have a chance to turn this around but if they don’t, I think the risk of a serious crisis rises considerably”."

In case you haven't noticed, even the lamestream/establishment media is now signalling that the economy is in SERIOUS trouble. Why is this? Because of the MASSIVE government debt accumulated over the past 3-4 years, due to paying for the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, the exploding size of the federal government, the cost of paying for the education, health care, etc of tens of millions of illegal aliens that have flooded into the country like a tsunami over the past 5-6 years, etc.

The "national debt", for instance, has skyrocketed from around 5 to 9 trillion dollars over the past ~4-5 years. This massive and ever-increasing debt accounts for skyrocketing "inflation"...ie, DEVALUATION OF THE DOLLAR (ie, why the "prices" of goods go up and up). Our paper so-called "money" used to actually be backed by something of real value (ie, gold and silver). But now it is backed by nothing other than public confidence in it's "value." Eventually, like a balloon that pops, the charade will collapse, and the dollar will lose virtually all its value, as has occured with other currencies in history, including the Russian ruble, etc.

The coming economic collapse is by design. The elite powers-that-be want to engineer an economic collapse (similar to how they engineered the 1929 stock market crash) as the pretext to implement their agenda (ie, weaken America and bring them into a North American Union and eventually world government). Aside from the economic warfare, the other major deliberate assault on the American people & the U.S. comes from the open border agenda & the massive illegal alien invasion, which is bankrupting and fracturing the nation, and setting the stage for a borderless "North American Community."

A plausible scenario is that after the economy crashes, the powers-that-be will say that the "solution" is for us to join a North American Union (similiar to the European Union), and they will propose a new North American currency (possibly called the "Amero"). Any civil unrest immediately following such an economic collapse would be a perfect pretext for the government to then declare martial law, confiscate firearms, etc.


[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 1:00 PM. Reason : 87-99-89324079]

8/15/2007 12:48:25 PM

Kevin Phillips has written a few books about this as well, actually. I suggest reading American Theocracy for one. There have been dozens of books written about this subject.


It's not just the economy that's the problem, there are several things going on at once that are leading to a stagnation, or gradual collapse of the US. There are a few books which compare the US to the Roman Empire at its peak.

[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 1:22 PM. Reason : .]

8/15/2007 1:21:14 PM

I heard the same message from Ross Perot 15 years ago.

8/15/2007 1:31:10 PM

haha for real

the rest of the world is waiting for the US to get some common sense and figure out how the world really works

8/15/2007 1:44:52 PM

Why is this such a bad thing?

Nobody mourns the Roman Empire, or the Hapsburg Empire, or the Soviet Union. Empires come, empires go. Life goes on.

8/15/2007 1:46:42 PM

No shit we're in trouble; just check out the world beer index (average minutes of work required to purchase a single beer):

8/15/2007 1:53:28 PM

It's not a bad thing, depending on how it happens. Dramatic collapses are always bad, but I doubt we'll have one of those. I HOPE we don't have one of those.

8/15/2007 1:53:30 PM

my advice

get out of the stock market, get out of all debts, use your dollars to invest/buy things of actual value before the dollar completely collapses

invest in guns, ammo, a storable food supply, an emergency water supply, water purifiers/filters

8/15/2007 1:53:48 PM

So, does anyone here have anything to offer that actually suggests the US is on the verge of collapse?

The federal deficit is only 1.5%, smaller than the GDP deflater; state governments are wracking up huge surpluses; industrial output is growing at 5% a year and is 30% more than in 1997; Exports are booming; productivity is gaining 3% a year; unemployment is at historic lows; stock market is at record highs; even the price of oil is falling.

So, all jokes aside, how can anyone take this idea seriously?

[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 2:00 PM. Reason : one]

8/15/2007 2:00:09 PM

Quote :

"invest in guns, ammo, a storable food supply, an emergency water supply, water purifiers/filters"

gotsta prepare for the Y2K8!!!!

[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

8/15/2007 2:00:34 PM

^HAHA

8/15/2007 2:00:42 PM

Quote :

"gotsta prepare for the Y2K"

That was a separate event, having absolutely no bearing on the current situation. If you wish to ignore the warning signs regarding the current situation, then that's your choice, and you will have to live with the consequences. And even if a serious depression or collapse doesn't happen in the near future (and it's a slower, more drawn out economic recession and decline), always better safe than sorry. Better prepared than unprepared.

8/15/2007 2:05:37 PM

Quote :

" So, all jokes aside, how can anyone take this idea seriously?"

Read the book I referenced, it's a pretty nice read. It's not all doomsday shit either.

8/15/2007 2:06:04 PM

^^NO YOU WILL LIVE THE CONSEQUENCES

8/15/2007 2:07:46 PM

Quote :

"The federal deficit is only 1.5%, smaller than the GDP deflater; state governments are wracking up huge surpluses; industrial output is growing at 5% a year and is 30% more than in 1997; Exports are booming; productivity is gaining 3% a year; unemployment is at historic lows; stock market is at record highs; even the price of oil is falling."

And wages are up -therateofinflation%

8/15/2007 2:13:30 PM

Quote :

"Nobody mourns the Roman Empire, or the Hapsburg Empire, or the Soviet Union. Empires come, empires go. Life goes on."

Exactly. I'm all for creating the Independent Nation of Carolina - a merger between South Carolina and North Carolina. We'd kick the world's ass. Carolinians unite!

Quote :

"So, all jokes aside, how can anyone take this idea seriously?"

The doomsayer is David Walker, the chief accountant of the United States government and has been for 9 years. They don't give those jobs to internet conspiracy hacks. He's looked at the numbers and they don't add up. And I agree with him. The fact we can be in massive debt forever with no consequence violates the laws of gravity (everything sky high eventually falls back to Earth) and the laws of equilibrium.

He said the following at a conference regarding our politicians' lack of will to solve the money problem:

Quote :

"I don't know politicians that like to raise taxes. I don't know politicians that like to cut spending, but I think what we have to recognize is this is not just about numbers. We are mortgaging the future of our children and grandchildren at record rates, and that is not only an issue of fiscal irresponsibility, it's an issue of immorality."

Quote :

"David Walker is an accountant, the nation’s top accountant to be exact, the comptroller general of the United States. He has totaled up our government's income, liabilities, and future obligations and concluded the numbers simply don’t add up. And he’s not alone. Its been called the "dirty little secret everyone in Washington knows" – a set of financial truths so inconvenient that most elected officials don’t even want to talk about them, which is exactly why David Walker does ... "What’s going on right now is we’re spending more money than we make…we’re charging it to credit card…and expecting our grandchildren to pay for it. And that’s absolutely outrageous," he told the editorial board of the Seattle Post Intelligencer. You have heard this before, from Ross Perot 15 years ago. You might have even thought the problem had been solved, when President Clinton announced, "Tonight, I come before you to announce that the federal deficit … will be simply zero." "Well, those days are gone. We've gone from surpluses to huge deficits and our long range situation is much worse," Walker says ... The problem with Medicare, Walker says, is people keep living longer, and medical costs keep rising at twice the rate of inflation. But instead of dealing with the problem, he says, the president and the Congress made things much worse just three years ago when they expanded the Medicare program to include prescription drug coverage. "The prescription drug bill was probably the most fiscally irresponsible piece of legislation since the 1960s," Walker argues. "

[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 2:30 PM. Reason : .]

8/15/2007 2:19:20 PM

you know what

don't worry...everything is just fine. in fact, everything is FANTASTIC. and I mean everything...the wars, out of control government spending, massive devaluement of the dollar, illegal aliens over-running and taking over the country, the economy, etc

just go back to your beer and american idol



[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 2:34 PM. Reason : 8-906-6345-55-7667-35862378]

8/15/2007 2:24:49 PM

Quote :

"The elite powers-that-be want to engineer an economic collapse (similar to how they engineered the 1929 stock market crash) as the pretext to implement their agenda"

Please back that up with proof if you're going to state it as fact.

8/15/2007 2:35:40 PM

Quote :

"wars, out of control government spending, illegal aliens over-running and taking over the country, the economy, etc"

and this is different than pretty much any other period in american history how?

8/15/2007 2:36:25 PM

Quote :

"and this is different than pretty much any other period in american history how?"

Almost all of it?

Not that this is not a completely idiotic thread/idea.. but still

8/15/2007 2:41:05 PM

IBTL

8/15/2007 2:45:32 PM

I agreed with everything in the OP until the second to last paragraph.

8/15/2007 2:45:55 PM

Why do you think housing prices have almost doubled over the past 8-10 years, and the price of gas has doubled over the past 5-6 years? It's not because those items are any more valuable (in real terms) now than then. It's because the dollar has undergone a dramatic decline in value (due to massive amounts of government spending & debt...which requires the "creation" of new paper fiat "money" to be injected into the currency supply...making each dollar less valuable).


http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/10/business/econ.php

Quote :

"Dollar hits record low against euro Bloomberg News, Reuters, The Associated Press Published: July 10, 2007 NEW YORK: The dollar fell to a record low against the euro and hit a 26-year bottom against the British pound Tuesday before recovering slightly, as investors fretted about a possible fallout from weakness in the U.S. subprime mortgage market."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a8f75366-f348-11db-9845-000b5df10621.html

Quote :

"Dollar falls to record low against euro By Peter Garnham Published: April 27 2007 13:48 | Last updated: April 27 2007 16:23 The dollar dropped to a record low against the euro on Friday as fresh data raised fears of slowing US growth coupled with rising prices. The latest GDP figures revealed that US growth slowed to 1.3 per cent in the first quarter, its weakest pace for four years and below consensus expectations for a 1.8 per cent rise, and well below the 2.5 per cent increase in the previous quarter. "

8/15/2007 2:46:11 PM

wait a minute, you're allowed 1 nut thread a week, right

it's only been 5 days...

i will rat on you you crazy fuck

8/15/2007 2:50:48 PM

"nut"

code word for someone who is right on a critical issue the establishment/powers-that-be are trying to suppress the truth on

eg, "gun nuts", "conspiracy nuts" (eg, those who tell the truth about the JFK assassination, 9/11, Oklahoma City bombing, etc), those "religious nuts" who really believe in God and take their religion seriously, etc




[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 2:59 PM. Reason : 2]

8/15/2007 2:56:34 PM

you're allowed 1 nut thread a week

the mod told you this, and while I value the need for varying opinion, your viewpoint is EXTREMELY tedious

a large part of me would like to see you suspended and left in the nether forever

[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 2:58 PM. Reason : .]

8/15/2007 2:58:34 PM

quick, post the J Bryant quote!

8/15/2007 3:00:51 PM

Quote :

"you're allowed 1 nut thread a week"

I recall the theduke866 once indicated that our agreement never nailed down whether "one per week" meant one every 7 days...or one per calender week. He specifically stated that, and said if it became an issue, he would discuss it with me. So go ahead and contact him if you wish. He'll work it out with me. I'm not trying to abuse the agreement we made.

8/15/2007 3:03:14 PM

Quote :

"Why do you think housing prices have almost doubled over the past 8-10 years, and the price of gas has doubled over the past 5-6 years? It's not because those items are any more valuable (in real terms) now than then. It's because the dollar has undergone a dramatic decline in value (due to massive amounts of government spending & debt...which requires the "creation" of new paper fiat "money" to be injected into the currency supply...making each dollar less valuable)."

I don't know what background you think you have in economics, but you can't simply point at two commodities and say that they are proof of inflation. You need to understand that in both cases there is much much more than just the value of the dollar in play.

By the same specious logic I could just as easily point at the decline in prices of plasma TVs over the past 5 years and the decline of mean house prices since 2006 as proof of the dollar increasing in value.

By the way, can you please prove you assertion that the Great Depression was engineered by our edomite overlords?

[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 3:05 PM. Reason : .]

8/15/2007 3:03:26 PM

Quote :

"can't simply point at two commodities and say that they are proof of inflation"

Inflation (ie, devaluement of the dollar) is a given in our fiat monetary system, and is absolutely proven and apparant if you look at the prices of goods over the last 20, 30, 50, 100 years. Back in the 1950s, you could buy a gallon of gas for 20 cents, the average house was only $15,000-$20,000, a loaf of bread was 15-20 cents, you could buy a brand new car for $1,500-$2,000, etc.



[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 3:17 PM. Reason : 2]

8/15/2007 3:13:19 PM

8/15/2007 3:16:19 PM

ad hominem

smear

don't discuss the substance of the issues

8/15/2007 3:17:30 PM

i'm discussing the substance with which you have issues...namely cocaine

8/15/2007 3:23:01 PM

I never said that inflation didn't exist. I said that your alarmist "logic" regarding "skyrocketing inflation" over the past 5 years is absolutely appalling.

The US actually has one of the lower inflation rates in the world (it has actually slowed considerably since the mid 80s).

http://www.bartelby.com/151/fields/69.html

8/15/2007 3:25:28 PM

Quote :

"I said that your alarmist "logic" regarding "skyrocketing inflation" over the past 5 years is absolutely appalling."

I just used those 2 items as examples. The prices/cost of goods all across the board are rising over the past 5-10 years. AND THAT IS DUE TO INFLATION.

8/15/2007 3:29:32 PM

You said explicitly that both had doubled in cost due to inflation. If you're right, why haven't all goods doubled in cost?

You're just showcasing a complete failure to understand economics with this thread.

Why does the US have such low inflation compared to the rest of the world?

8/15/2007 3:35:35 PM

Quote :

"If you're right, why haven't all goods doubled in cost? "

I never stated that all goods had doubled in cost. Gas and housing have rose in price at a higher % than most other goods, and are therefore two glaring examples of the inflation over the past 5-10 years. Also, housing is by far the biggest cost of the average person, and is therefore a huge chunk of the economy (ie, therefore being a very good indicator of inflation).

But taking into account all goods, the dollar has lost approximately 30-40%+ of its value over the past 5-6 years.

8/15/2007 3:51:44 PM

the increase in goods has a lot more to do with external influences than it does with inflation.

Inflation has remained relatively constant for the last couple of decades, as the fed has done a pretty damn good job regulating it.

8/15/2007 3:55:07 PM

Quote :

"Gas and housing have rose in price at a higher % than most other goods, and are therefore two glaring examples of the inflation over the past 5-10 years."

Thats not how economics work. There is a hell of a lot more involved in determining housing and oil prices than just the strength of the dollar. All of your theories exhibit an inability to grasp the complexity of the world around you.

Quote :

"But taking into account all goods, the dollar has lost approximately 30-40%+ of its value over the past 5-6 years."

Inflation has stayed between 1.5% and 2.5% over the past 5-6 years. Explain how that would lead to the dollar losing 30-40%+ of its value over the same time period. Can you back that up or did you just make up a figure?

8/15/2007 3:59:41 PM

Quote :

"It's because the dollar has undergone a dramatic decline in value (due to massive amounts of government spending & debt...which requires the "creation" of new paper fiat "money" to be injected into the currency supply...making each dollar less valuable)."

Hmm, the Federal Government could be running the largest surpluses in history and inflation would still be two to three percent annual. Inflation is not driven by Government spending, history has proven that repeatedly: during the great depression, government spending and borrowing grew substantially, deflation was still 30+% a year.

Inflation and deflation are a product of both monetary policy, Government driven credit expansion, and private banking institutions, consumer driven credit expansion.

Hence, it is possible for the FED to be destroying money while the citizenry is creating it; it is possible for the citizenry to be destroying it faster than the FED can create it; it is possible for both to be going in the same direction, building credit bubbles and creating monetary collapse. Thankfully, since the 1980s, the FED has usually gone in the opposite direction of private institutions, producing low and steady inflation without the occasional periods of deflation. My own personal preference would be if it averaged out to -1% a year, but I'm not chairman.

8/15/2007 4:28:51 PM

Quote :

"Inflation has stayed between 1.5% and 2.5% over the past 5-6 years."

I don't know where a 1.5-2.5% annual inflation figure comes from, but it a bullshit figure. The government doctors/manipulates financial figures to suit its agenda, and downplays the real inflation rate.

It may have been that low, on average, at various periods in the past, but not in the last 5-10 years. The last 5-10 years have seen an EXPLOSION in government spending & debt (eg, the national debt skyrocketing from around 5 trillion to now around 9 trillion over the past 4-5 years). That has triggered the massive devaluing of the dollar that has occured in the last 5-6 years, as evidenced by (as I already mentioned), the skyrocketing in the price of housing, gas, and other goods over the past 5-6 years. You can go and pull up some doctored figure off a government website saying the inflation rate is only 2% annually, but anyone with 2 brain cells instinctively knows that is bullshit when we can see the costs of everything going up all around us at a much higher rate than a paltry 2%.



[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 5:02 PM. Reason : 2]

8/15/2007 4:48:01 PM

Quote :

"That has triggered the massive devaluing of the dollar that has occured in the last 5-6 years, as evidenced by (as I already mentioned), the skyrocketing in the price of housing, gas, and other goods over the past 5-6 years."

How many times do I need to spell this out for you? Housing prices and oil prices cannot be entirely attributed to inflation. There are a multitude of other factors in play here, all of which outweigh the strength of the dollar. Anyone with even a basic understanding of either will tell you this.

Quote :

"I don't know where a 1.5-2.5% annual inflation figure comes from, but it a bullshit figure."

Then prove that its a bullshit figure instead of just calling it names because it hurts your theory. Its a well accepted number and can hardly be called a government figure - a 10 second internet search will prove this to you. I've asked you to provide proof of your claim that the value of the dollar has decreased by 30-40% over the past 5-6 years and you have failed to do so - I assume because no proof exists.

Now tell me:

Why does the US have such low inflation compared to the rest of the world?

Can you please prove your assertion that the Great Depression was intentional?

8/15/2007 5:03:23 PM

You know what you don't get joshua? The paradigm has shifted in regards to public confidence/trust in government & so-called "establishment" institutions. People no longer blindly trust these institutions as in the past, and actually now have strong distrust of them (due in thanks to the internet and the exposure of massive frauds like 9/11, Iraq war, etc).

The burden of proof is actually on the government/establishment to prove the claims they make...MUCH more so than on those questioning the establishment. Anyone with any sense would assume from the get-go that the government/establishment is lying to them, and ask for proof for their assertions. That said, those opposing the establishment position (generally speaking) actually have the evidence on their side.

And essentially all you and others who support the establishment can do is pull up claims from government/establishment websites/sources, and say "hey this must be true because the government/establishment said so." Sorry, but in case you haven't heard, we don't buy the government/establishment bullshit anymore.

8/15/2007 5:12:49 PM

Quote :

"No shit we're in trouble; just check out the world beer index (average minutes of work required to purchase a single beer): "

and after all these years, Rome still has us beat

8/15/2007 5:24:46 PM

Did any of you read his actual speech? While he's certainly sounding the alarm that we're on a bad footing, he's not acting as if the United States is going to end tomorrow. Yes, we're in trouble, but there's time to fix it, and he's proposing a sensible approach that most people would agree with (in theory).

Fiscal discipline.

Quote :

"Obviously, a return to fiscal discipline is essential. We need to impose meaningful budget controls on both the tax and the spending sides of the ledger. Members of Congress also need more explicit information on the long-term costs of spending and tax bills—before they vote on them."

Improving government efficiency to adapt to new problems.

Quote :

"The problem is that much of government today is on autopilot, based on social conditions and spending priorities that date back decades. I’m talking about when Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and John Kennedy were in the White House. The fact is, the Cold War is over, the baby boomers are about to retire, and globalization is affecting everything from foreign policy to international trade to public health. Unfortunately, once federal programs or agencies are created, the tendency is to fund them in perpetuity. This is what I mean when I say our government is on autopilot. Washington rarely seems to question the wisdom of its existing commitments. Instead, it simply adds new programs and initiatives on top of the old ones... This is a key reason our government has grown so large and so expensive... We need nothing less than a top-to-bottom review of federal programs, policies, and operations. Congress and the President need to decide which of these activities remain priorities, which should be overhauled, and which have simply outlived their usefulness. Entitlement reform is especially urgent. Unless we reform Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, these programs will eventually crowd out all other federal spending. Otherwise, by 2040 our government could be doing little more than sending out Social Security checks and paying interest on our massive national debt."

Call for a new generation of civil servants and involvement in the public sector.

Quote :

"The simple truth is that effective government requires a first-rate workforce... Today, the civil service is aging: Large numbers of federal executives and managers are expected to retire in the coming years... At the same time, too many agencies lack enough people with the right skills to carry out their missions. Federal agencies are going to have to do a better job of attracting, rewarding, and retaining talent. Today, many federal personnel practices date back to the1940s and 1950s. The General Schedule (GS) pay scale, which tends to reward time in grade rather than performance on the job, shows how outdated the government’s pay and compensation systems have become. In so many areas—recruiting, training and development, job classification, pay and benefits, and employee empowerment—the federal government lags behind other sectors. This is a serious problem given that, in many areas, the government is competing with these sectors for top talent. Moreover, despite the wave of federal retirements that we know are coming, few agencies have adequate succession plans in place."

He then spends most of the speech preaching about the virtues of the GAO (surprise, surprise). Read it yourself: http://www.gao.gov/cghome/d071188cg.pdf

[Edited on August 15, 2007 at 5:31 PM. Reason : Mistag]

8/15/2007 5:31:35 PM

salisburyboy, your last post was nothing but you trying to weasel out of explaining yourself. You completely abandoned defending your assertions and instead launched into a tirade claiming that everyone who questions you is probably wrong simply because they question you. Do you see the inherent problems of your approach?

Quote :

"You know what you don't get joshua? The paradigm has shifted in regards to public confidence/trust in government & so-called "establishment" institutions. People no longer blindly trust these institutions as in the past, and actually now have strong distrust of them (due in thanks to the internet and the exposure of massive frauds like 9/11, Iraq war, etc)."

Where did I cite any establishment institutions? I simply pointed out facts that everyone with an understanding of economics agrees on. None of what I pointed out was in any way dictated by the "establishment" - rather its all common sense.

Quote :

"Anyone with any sense would assume from the get-go that the government/establishment is lying to them, and ask for proof for their assertions. That said, those opposing the establishment position (generally speaking) actually have the evidence on their side."

Now you're just spinning rationalizations to explain the fact that you have no proof. I provided a figure regarding inflation that is agreed upon by all economists. You provided a number that you had picked arbitrarily. There is absolutely no evidence to support your numbers.

Quote :

"Sorry, but in case you haven't heard, we don't buy the government/establishment bullshit anymore."

Well thats all fine and dandy, little buddy. Unfortunately, none of what I've pointed out to you here is "government/establishment bullshit." Rather its economic fact that is supported universally.

Instead of actually defending the wild ideas that you post as fact, you've instead decided to attack anyone who dares to question you. If the content of something hurts your argument you can't simply declare that it has been tainted by the "establishment" and move on as if it never happened. However, ignoring facts is one of the hallmarks of the logic that you display here.

I'll ask you again:

Why does the US have such low inflation compared to the rest of the world?

Can you please prove your assertion that the Great Depression was intentional?

Do you have any evidence that the dollar has lost 30-40%+ of its value over the past 5-6 years or did you just make up a figure?

8/15/2007 6:08:15 PM

And when I was in college, books were published proclaiming east asia was going to be the new center of the economic world

then their markets crashed and everyone realized that the theories were wrong

8/15/2007 6:24:33 PM

Quote :

"everyone realized that the theories were wrong"

Well, China does loan out trillions of dollars to sustain the subprime dominated US economy.

8/15/2007 7:22:22 PM

8/15/2007 7:23:44 PM

Quote :

"get out of the stock market, get out of all debts, use your dollars to invest/buy things of actual value before the dollar completely collapses invest in guns, ammo, a storable food supply, an emergency water supply, water purifiers/filters"

See, if you invest in all those things, you'll be able to subsist, at best. If I was looking for society to collapse, I'd be buying me some precious metals, because after currency becomes useless that stuff will be the shit. I'll be living like a king on not-even-that-much gold and silver while your ass is trying to figure out how the water purifier works and why MRE's taste so shitty.

Of course, I'm not really suggesting that to you, salisburyboy, for two reasons:

1) Society isn't about to implode, and

2) You want to buy guns and survivalist shit for the same reason you seem so eager for the country to collapse: you, like so many of the people who share your ideas and who often you seem quite fond of, want to be Grand Poobah of your own little fiefdom. It's also why you don't like government at all, come to think, because as long as it's around you can't be the High Exalted Emperor of Salisbury.

8/15/2007 7:30:32 PM