So after graduating in May and getting a full time job, I'm wishing I hadn't decided to grow up so quickly before I got a chance to get out and see things. I have seriously been considering giving this job a year or two (just so that I have the experience under my belt) and then dropping everything and moving to Europe. Now ideally I would just take what I would need for a month trip or so, pick a place like Spain or Germany and start living somewhere cheap like a hostel. I want to do my fair share of traveling but I also want to work. When I say work I mean the type of work that is gonna pay me enough to travel around a little bit and feed me etc.

I figure after being poor for a while and getting the hang of things over there, I would like to get a real job somewhere that I have gotten a good grasp of the language. I have a business degree and double majored and would have had 2 years of sales experience before moving. I don't know how much weight that will hold however. I have never been outside of north america so I really don't know shit about Europe or about how feasable this all is. If you have been overseas to visit or even to live and have thoughts about this or ideas they would be greatly appreciated. This is not a decision I am willing to make without having talked to as many people as possible and doing as much research as I can.

9/6/2007 11:59:08 AM

Quote :

"So after graduating in May and getting a full time job, I'm wishing I hadn't decided to grow up so quickly before I got a chance to get out and see things. I have seriously been considering giving this job a year or two (just so that I have the experience under my belt) and then dropping everything and moving"

that is how i feel. be it to the west coast, canada, europe, or somewhere else.


i feel constricted

9/6/2007 12:02:35 PM

Quote :

"I have never been outside of north america "

you might wanna actually visit before making such a big jump.

and what's your def of cheap? I went to europe for just under 3 weeks and spent around $3,000, granted half of that was airfare and the eurail pass, but we also had a free place to stay for 4-5 nights. depending on exactly where you go hostles will run around 20-30 euro/night. a good option for you might be to work at a hostle, then you could stay for free and get a free meal every morning.

9/6/2007 12:08:05 PM

I don't think the move would be cheap, I mean I plan on having a nest egg of 4-5k at the least before going just to give me a buffer

9/6/2007 12:10:02 PM

I'd have more than that

9/6/2007 12:25:21 PM

why not just work and then take a visit there eh.

9/6/2007 12:44:35 PM

sometimes a visit or vacation isn't enough.

i think he wants a sabbatical of sorts. when i think of taking off and moving somewhere i invision working a blue collar, pt job that will give me enough money to survive and experience my new location and meet new people on a deeper level that a tourist vacation doesn't allow.

9/6/2007 12:58:42 PM

Quote :

"I mean I plan on having a nest egg of 4-5k at the least before going just to give me a buffer"

you clearly haven't thought this through and done research - have you even found out how to get a job in any country in europe?

9/6/2007 1:01:51 PM

I just started thinking about this like literally a week ago and its not gonna happen for at least another year or so. I told you I knew nothing

9/6/2007 1:03:12 PM

From what I understand, you can get a job in just about any country as an english teacher without having to be an expert in the native language.

9/6/2007 1:03:30 PM

getting a work visa in most European countries is extremely difficult from what I've been told.

9/6/2007 1:32:37 PM

Why not just move to Europe and get a REAL job like you have here? Plenty of people do it. My brothers been living in Germany for 3 years now and now speaks fluent German. Of course his reason for moving there was cause he got married

9/6/2007 1:41:38 PM

I would definitely do that, I just feel like I need to be pretty fluent in the language before I attempt to get a job in that country. Rosetta Stone ftw

9/6/2007 1:48:55 PM

not really...my brother got his job in Germany (Eastern part where next to nobody speaks english) without speaking any German....he was still taking his 'crash course to German' classes that the Gov. requires you to take to live there.

Rosetta stone is indeed FTW though!

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 1:50 PM. Reason : fda]

9/6/2007 1:50:11 PM

I plan on moving to europe in about 6 months or so

9/6/2007 1:56:15 PM

I think you're going about this the completely wrong way. If you really want to move to Europe, then you need a career: whether thats waiting tables, or working business is up to you. However, I wouldn't recommend that you plan on doing a line of work there that you wouldn't do here. For instance, waiting tables is no more fun in Europe then it is in America and likewise being broke is no more fun there then is here.

Most Americans who build professional careers in Europe either transfer through a corporation here or plan on moving to Europe the minute the start college and gear there course work and studies abroad accordingly.

I would highly suggest that you find a career in this country that allows you to travel overseas quite a bit to 'test the waters' so to speak. Conversely, you could save up about 5000$ and just travel all over Europe for a year.

9/6/2007 2:12:28 PM

^except waiting tables in Europe is worse because people don't tip

9/6/2007 2:44:03 PM

They also make more money, at least in France from my understanding. It's more like a career over there as oppose to a "making ends meet while i'm in college" kind of thing... Yes I know there are exceptions, but you get the point

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 3:05 PM. Reason : and I always tipped them well over there, are you sure about that?]

9/6/2007 3:05:35 PM

i'm gonna move to the NW and work in a fish market.

9/6/2007 3:18:12 PM

have you even tested the waters yet

9/6/2007 3:22:07 PM

me or the europe guy?


yeah i've been out there, albeit not for very long.

9/6/2007 3:23:41 PM

Quote :

"and I always tipped them well over there, are you sure about that?"

Hahaha you didn't need to do that, man. Servers in Europe don't get paid the equivalent of like $2/hr like they do here. I'm sure they appreciated you leaving money for them though.


And to the author of this thread, it may be a good idea to just spend a month or so in your desired country so you can move around and see what cities appeal to you the most. You should probably decide on which country you would like to move to fairly soon too so you can start to learn the language as best as possible.

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 3:55 PM. Reason : ]

9/6/2007 3:53:37 PM

Quote :

"and I always tipped them well over there, are you sure about that?"

American tourist != locals. I'm sure they love American tourists that sit at their sections. Also its not uncommon for Europeans to spend hours eating and socializing before getting up and vacating a table. Also explains why service in Europe is extremely slow....

9/6/2007 4:31:46 PM

oops, haha... ah well, guess they probably liked me then

and yea, I know they spend forever eating and assuming you've sat outside and ate at nearly anywhere in Paris you can understand why..

9/6/2007 4:48:09 PM

If you do go to Europe, don't diss on people wearing scarves...I've heard they'll literally laugh you off of the continent

9/6/2007 4:53:29 PM

same for speedo's

i was laughed off the continent

9/6/2007 4:55:58 PM

Who actually makes fun of people based on what they wear?

9/6/2007 5:08:50 PM

What's wrong with scarves?

9/6/2007 5:21:07 PM

Quote :

"State409c: people that wear scarves are faggots? Your ass would get laughed out of Europe with that attitude."

9/6/2007 5:23:20 PM

In Europe, people actually walk around outside. you know, to get to work or the store or whatever.

Also, in much of Europe, it's friggin' cold a lot of the time. Europeans have latched onto the brilliant idea that a scarf is a good item of clothing to wear daily in the winter. because.... when you walk around outside a lot, it's nice to keep your neck and face warm.

In America, however, they apparently call you a faggot if you wear a scarf.

9/6/2007 5:50:51 PM

nobody walks in america...also in america it is hot outside in all states, 365 days a year

9/6/2007 5:51:53 PM

well, in walking+cold cities like New York, Boston and Chicago, I bet you will see a lot of people dressed very similar to people in cities like London, Paris, Munich and Berlin - trench coats, scarves, nice shoes, leather gloves.

but in Raleigh, if you are so much as seen in a long coat and a scarf, you are a fag.

9/6/2007 6:49:27 PM

Like someone mentioned before, you can't just go to a country as a tourist staying in hostels, and expect to get a job.

You have to get a work visa somehow. Additionally, living in the bigger cities (my and agentlions experience is with Munich) is prohibitively expensive without roomates if you aren't in a really well paying job, and even then it's expensive as hell with them.

Plenty of my counterparts over there are in there late 30s and 40s and are still renting from some landlord and are pretty much stupified that I bought a house at 25.

You need to do some more research, but I think the only way you pull this off is to get hired by a company to work in Europe.

9/6/2007 7:51:45 PM

I wish I could remember how much the guy I stayed with in Stuttgard was paying for rent.. well, he was in the military so more like how much the gov't was paying for his rent. I remember it being something insane for how small his place was and he said that's why families over there have more than one generation living in each house most of the time.

9/6/2007 8:02:30 PM

I wear scarves all the time in winter when i go to Germany. Can't begin to count how many i've been given as gifts over the years lol.

+1 scarf

Quote :

"well, in walking+cold cities like New York, Boston and Chicago, I bet you will see a lot of people dressed very similar to people in cities like London, Paris, Munich and Berlin - trench coats, scarves, nice shoes, leather gloves. but in Raleigh, if you are so much as seen in a long coat and a scarf, you are a fag."

its because Raleigh and NC in general....hell the whole south...have no class or culture.

/theend.

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 8:53 PM. Reason : fda]

9/6/2007 8:52:32 PM

^^ I stayed on the edge of what would be considered the inner part of Munich proper (4 minute walk to the ubahn stop, 10 minute trip into downtown) in a 700 sq ft flat (on the larger side for Munich) in an ok area (actually heavily populated by Turks) and the rent was 1500 euros. agentlion stayed practically right in downtown (on the edge of it) and I suspect his flat was closer to 40 sq ft, I'm sure he can tell you how much it cost per month.

9/6/2007 10:27:53 PM

Ah, sounds about right.. I know we were in easy walking distance of all the historic stuff and shops, etc. I don't know if that narrows it down at all in Stuttgard honestly because I was only there a week or so and know almost nothing about it, but it was still pretty cool. The landlord spoke zero English, I spoke zero German and I got locked out one day and somehow managed to get him to let me in.. that was interesting

9/6/2007 10:32:44 PM

1,500 Euros for 700 sq ft? Per month? GOD DAMN. That's utterly obscene and disgusting. Do only rich people live there? What about families who only earn 2-2.5K Euros a month? Or indeed less than 2?

Oh and BTW, you meant 400 sq ft, not 40

9/6/2007 10:39:30 PM

Yeah, that's why multiple families live in shit that small.

9/6/2007 10:45:19 PM

i stayed downtown Munich - 3 blocks from city center. 40m^2 ~ 430sq ft 1 bedroom place for 1450euro, IIRC. (i didn't pay for it, so I don't really care how much it cost )
and being there for a year, i'm still not really sure how normal germans could afford it. There was a lot of rich people (lots of very nice cars) in Munich, but a lot of normal working class people too. I guess a lot of people lived way out in the 'burbs and take the S-Bahn into town every day.

I didn't talk rent and cost-of-living vs. pay with many Germans - that would be quite rude. But I did gather that the normal German's pay at our company is lower than the equivalent American's, before taxes, so significantly less after taxes. so.... sucks for them, i suppose.

9/6/2007 10:58:12 PM

i lived in Liechtenstein for a year after graduation, working for Hilti. It was an internship set up through an international organization, IAESTE, that happens to have a chapter at NC State. that doesn't do you any good, but I would recommend anyone interested in working abroad during school, or immediately post graduation, check them out.

as far as living overseas... i wouldn't go into it halfcocked. your best bet is to find a job ahead of time that will get a visa for you. if you want to live meagerly and have your money go a long way head towards eastern europe. I really really enjoyed the czech republic.

9/6/2007 11:43:30 PM

live in sweden.

9/7/2007 12:54:43 AM

Quote :

"1,500 Euros for 700 sq ft? Per month? GOD DAMN. That's utterly obscene and disgusting. Do only rich people live there? What about families who only earn 2-2.5K Euros a month? Or indeed less than 2? "

Munich is one of the more expensive cities in Europe. Crime is extremely low, the city is extremely clean, lots of jobs, close proximity to the Alps, etc.

And like agentlion mentioned, I think many of the people with families that don't have as good a paying job are living farther out from the city center. I know 2 people that own homes from the office over there, one of them commutes 1hr15 every day 1 way to get to work (also had the land donated from family) and the other has a wife that also has a good job and they were able to afford (barely) a small place closer in to town. Other than that, it really blows my mind how tied many of them are to the state/landlords in regards to rent.

9/7/2007 8:15:07 AM

oh yeah - also in Europe (or in Bavaria/Southern Germany, at least) it's not entirely uncommon for houses to be handed down though the generations. I met one native Bavarian who actually lived in a castle at the foot of the Alps that had been in his family for hundreds of years. So that's one way people can avoid high rent and housing costs.

btw, "castle" is a relative term - it can simply refer to a two room rock building, sometimes

9/7/2007 8:31:16 AM

^^ Yeah, Sweden wouldnt be a bad choice given the information about the OP that we have. You can get away with not becoming fluent in a foreign language before you go simply because nearly all swedes are fluent in english. It is a nice country depending on where you live and what your tastes are. It is very easy and cheap to travel anywhere in Europe.

As far as job go, that will be the biggest problem. With a highly educated population of only 9 million, jobs are hard to come by and extremely competetive. If you live in the south around Malmö you could also compete for jobs across the bridge in Copenhagen while paying less taxes in Sweden. I'm not terribly certain how easy/dificult it is to get a work visa but I would imagine that getting it on your own will be just as much a pain in the ass as other EU/Schengen states. You could always try getting into some classes at a local university in sweden. There are tons of programs/courses in english and if you take individual courses that eventually lead up to something you become elegible to work full time on your (student) resident permit.

if you want to get a feel for the job market in sweden, there is a small job posting section at: http://www.thelocal.se It is a swedish newpaper printed in english so many of the jobs posted there do not require swedish fluency.

9/7/2007 9:00:46 AM

join the military.

9/7/2007 11:17:42 AM

Quote :

"Also, in much of Europe, it's friggin' cold a lot of the time."

what the hell is with Americans that think Europe is cold??? people always ask me: it must be cold where you are from?

yeah northern parts are colder, just like northern parts of US are colder. it is no different.

9/7/2007 6:17:35 PM

they typically just don't have extreme temp. fluctuations like we're used to........105 in the summer, 30's in the winter.

it's a much smaller difference over there

9/7/2007 6:29:17 PM

Quote :

"what the hell is with Americans that think Europe is cold???"

umm, i lived in Munich for a year, and it snowed in 6 of the 12 months I was there. Granted, it was far above average for amount of snow and days below freezing and stuff, but still, it was cold. The average temperatures for Munich are comparable to that of Boone, and if you've lived in Boone over a winter, you know how long and cold they can be.

Quote :

"yeah northern parts are colder, just like northern parts of US are colder. it is no different."

yeah, no shit. which is exactly why I compared the European cities of London, Paris, Munich and Berlin to the northern US cities of New York, Boston and Chicago.

All it takes is a cursory glance at a map to realize that most of Europe is much further north than the US is. Basically all the major cities - London, Paris, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin, even Rome - are further north than New York and Boston. Europe mainland is comparable to Canada for latitude. Even the southern-most tips of Spain, Italy and Greece are only parallel with North Carolina.
Of course there is a lot more that dictates climate than latitude (proximity to the Sea or Ocean, geography, etc), but compared to the US where vast amounts of land are hot and/or dry (the South, south-west, some of the Plains, southern CA), Europe is just simply colder.

[Edited on September 7, 2007 at 6:58 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2007 6:57:58 PM

I went in mid-august last year and it was a nice break from the weather over here.. During the day you could barely break a sweat riding a bike, it was perfect..but at night leaving the clubs you'd be freezing your balls off... I loved it but would probably hate the real winters over there

[Edited on September 7, 2007 at 7:10 PM. Reason : asdf]

9/7/2007 7:09:47 PM