So, I'm almost pretty sure my boss has one or maybe even both of these issues. My question is....how I am supposed to handle someone with these disorders? She goes from being really happy and chatty to crying at the drop of a dime to screaming and cursing at us all within a couple hours and its getting really hard to be able to handle and I would like to know how Im supposed to approach and deal with the situations.

9/19/2007 9:18:04 PM

report it to HR as unsafe working conditions/hostile work environment.

you don't have to treat them any differently.

9/19/2007 9:20:50 PM

maybe he just wants to do you

9/19/2007 9:21:11 PM

Sounds like a case of y-chromosome deficiency disorder.

9/19/2007 9:21:21 PM

My boss used to be like this.. medication is a wonderful thing.

9/19/2007 9:32:12 PM

[Edited on September 19, 2007 at 9:57 PM. Reason : fail]

9/19/2007 9:57:26 PM

Bipolar and Borderlines although both mood disorders with similarities manifest themselves in VERY different ways. If your boss is bipolar you will find that his downess or grumpiness extends over the course of several days if not weeks. This followed by a period of high energy and erratic behavior if they are strictly manic-depressive or they could be more hypomanic acting more of what we call "normal" when not in a depressive state.

People with a Borderline Personality Disorder are a lot more unpredictable with a completely unstable moods. By the way Borderline is a name for the condition, not an adjective for the disorder as many people confuse. The person with BPD may flip out at your over nothing then after lunch show back to your cubicle happy trying to be buddy buddy as if nothing is wrong. BPD people also often take part in completely irrational behavior and are often impulsive not thinking about the consequences of their actions.

I have known people with both mood disorders. If given a choice I would rather hang around a bipolar person any day. I at least can make more predictable estimates on how they are going to act or react. BPD's on the other hand are completely unstable and can often unstabilize an otherwise psychologically healthy person due to their unpredictable, destructive, and irrational behavior.

From the description of your boss w/o getting more info i would guess she is def a candidate for BPD. Woman are 3x more likely to develop symptons of BPD then men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar

[Edited on September 19, 2007 at 10:23 PM. Reason : l]

9/19/2007 10:23:03 PM

Quote :

"report it to HR as unsafe working conditions/hostile work environment. you don't have to treat them any differently."

thats being a prick. Its not their fault they have a disorder like that, they deserve equal employment oportunities as anyone else. If you know they have this disorder then it should be really easy to ignore and not take anything they say in a fit personally. If they are really being this way and don't have any kind of mental disorder then yeah, HR away.

9/19/2007 10:40:05 PM

I hope the "boss" owns the place and fires your ass for trying to report it

9/19/2007 10:52:19 PM

Quote :

"hats being a prick. Its not their fault they have a disorder like that,"

It most certainly isn't if that person's instability is effecting your job and your state of well being at work. They are adults and should have enough control to control themselves at work or be seeking help via therapy and meds to control their condition.

9/19/2007 10:52:35 PM

Either speak to her, or HR.

If she can't handle this shit, she doesn't need to be supervising anyone, for the time being.

Quote :

"From the description of your boss w/o getting more info i would guess she is def a candidate for BPD."

Agreed. Even ultra-rapid cycling bipolars rarely cycle that quickly.

9/19/2007 11:03:01 PM

i thought in classic BPD you have longer depressive episodes than manic episodes...

9/19/2007 11:23:17 PM

And by BPD you mean bipolar, given that context? I ask because lots of people use that acronym for bipolar (I can see why, but with BPD already referring to something else...)

It depends on your type of bipolar. Bipolar II is depressive, with hypomania (AKA not 'full-blown' or 'classic' manias), and bipolar I has normal (har) manias.

[Edited on September 19, 2007 at 11:28 PM. Reason : lkj]

9/19/2007 11:27:48 PM

yeah i meant bipolar disorder...missed the post above. all of these in this thread are classified as axis 2, cluster b disorders, right?

9/20/2007 12:09:33 AM

I don't have a DSM handy, but I doubt it. Personality disorders are on a separate axis from mood disorders (borderline, and bipolar, respectively)

9/20/2007 12:16:19 AM

you guys know a bunch of random shit

9/20/2007 12:40:23 AM

OK here are the DSM-IV axes:

Axis I Acute (State) Disorders
Axis II Personality Disorders; Mental Retardation (Trait)
Axis III General Medical Conditions
Axis IV Psychosocial and Environmental Stresses
Axis V Global Assessment of Functioning

Categories of Axis I:
Delirium, Dementia, and Amnestic and Other Cognitive Disorders
Mental Disorders Due to a General Medical Condition
Substance-Related Disorders
Schizophrenia and Other Psychotic Disorders
Mood Disorders
Anxiety Disorders
Somatoform Disorders
Factitious Disorders
Dissociative Disorders
Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders
Eating Disorders
Sleep Disorders
Impulse-Control Disorders Not Elsewhere Classified
Adjustment Disorders

Categories of Axis II:
Cluster A – “Odd/Eccentric”
Paranoid Personality Disorder
Schizoid Personality Disorder
Schizotypal Personality Disorder

Cluster B – “Dramatic/Erratic”
Antisocial Personality Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Histrionic Personality Disorder
Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Cluster C – “Anxious/Avoidant”
Avoidant Personality Disorder
Dependent Personality Disorder
Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder

Categories of Axis III:
Infectious and Parasitic Diseases (001-139)
Neoplasms (140-239)
Endocrine, Nutritional, and Metabolic Diseases and Immunity Disorders (240-279)
Diseases of the Blood and Blood-Forming Organs (280-289)
Diseases of the Nervous System and Sense Organs (320-389)
Diseases of the Circulatory System (390-459)
Diseases of the Respiratory System (460-519)
Diseases of the Digestive System (520-579)

Diseases of the Genitourinary System (580-629)
Complications of Pregnancy, Childbirth, and the Puerperium (630-676)
Diseases of the Skin and Subcutaneous Tissue (680-709)
Diseases of the Musculoskeletal System and Connective Tissue (710-739)
Congenital Anomalies (740-759)
Certain Conditions Originating in the Perinatal Period (760-779)
Symptoms, Signs, and Ill-Defined Conditions (780-799)
Injury and Poisoning (800-999)

Categories of Axis IV:
Primary support group
Social environment
Educational
Occupational
Housing
Economic
Health care
Legal/criminal
Other psychosocial and environmental problems

Categories of Axis V:
100-91 No Symptoms
90-81 Minimal
80-71 Transient and expectable
70-61 Mild
60-51 Moderate
50-41 Serious
40-31 Psychotic
30-21 Judgment
20-11 Danger to self/others
10-1 Persistent danger
----------
So to summarize, borderline personality disorder is an axis 2, cluster B, whereas bipolar is a mood disorder and thus an axis 1. Don't ask me how that even matters. It's not like you select treatment based on where someone classifies within the DSM.

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 12:45 AM. Reason : fucking psych]

9/20/2007 12:41:48 AM

Quote :

"you guys know a bunch of random shit"

too much free time to play on wikipedia at Cisco Paul

9/20/2007 12:46:47 AM

Quote :

"you guys know a bunch of random shit"

I spent a lot of time in psych wards as a teenager, and doing a shit ton of reading on what I, and people I knew, had been diagnosed with. At Dix, I read a good parts of the DSM-IV for fun in various situations in therapy.

Next month is actually ten years since my first stay in a psych ward.

9/20/2007 12:49:28 AM

so back to the purpose of the DSM...i hated studying this crap because i didn't see how knowing where something fell in the categories influenced the real issues - like treatment, prognosis, etc.

any insight?

9/20/2007 12:52:09 AM

Quote :

"I spent a lot of time in psych wards as a teenager, and doing a shit ton of reading on what I, and people I knew, had been diagnosed with. At Dix, I read a good parts of the DSM-IV for fun in various situations in therapy."

Remember it is "down the river" not "across the street"

9/20/2007 12:55:56 AM

Quote :

"so back to the purpose of the DSM...i hated studying this crap because i didn't see how knowing where something fell in the categories influenced the real issues - like treatment, prognosis, etc."

Axis I* - less personality, and more a combination of nature/nurture/environment - even more inherent to a person than personality
Axis II - more readily handled through therapy than the others
Axis III - physical, probably will end up influencing Tx
Axis IV - major issues to consider when designing a Tx, and doing what's possible to eliminate or minimize them
Axis V - self-explanatory


...my layman's take

*note that MPD/DID is Axis I, and not II? that's part of why I used the words nature/nurture/environment: it's a prime example of how the three come together to form a problem, even though it is only treatable with therapy.


^pffft...I'm soooooooo past that, and razors are so emo

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 12:59 AM. Reason : dfls;gk]

9/20/2007 12:58:36 AM

BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and Bi-polar disorder are wo totally different things, and they don't generally pair together.

Bipolar disorder (aka "manic-depression") is a chemical imbalance, and is often quite successfully treated with medication. the problem is with people remaining compliant. they get to feeling "normal" again, and so quit taking their meds.

BPD (Boderline Personality Disorder) is basically one step away from being a psychopath, and it's not particularly treatable. it can be described as someone who is basically lacking a conscience.

9/20/2007 12:58:56 AM

as someone working toward a PhD in clinical psychology, I feel inclined to insert the obligatory "Don't put all your eggs in the DSM-basket." It's a guide-- nothing hard and fast-- and it often obscures extremely important individual variations in symptomotoloy. Also just so people know, Bi-Polar (particularly Bi-Polar II) is the most over-diagnosed psychiatric condition among adults and children. True manic episodes are pretty fucking rare. Having "mood swings" does not equal bi-polar even though drug - happy (read: money-happy) psychiatrists seem to think it does.

^^ were you an in-patient at Dix? If so, for how long?

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 12:59 AM. Reason : folks be postin]

9/20/2007 12:59:15 AM

Quote :

"BPD (Boderline Personality Disorder) is basically one step away from being a psychopath, and it's not particularly treatable. it can be described as someone who is basically lacking a conscience."

No. It's more rooted in self-destructive behaviors and fears. Therapy goes a LONG ways towards treating it, particularly cognitive somethingortheother.

Not lacking a conscience. That's more along the lines of antisocial PD

^oh man...Dix was two stays, one of 5mos, and the other, 6mos.
If you have any more questions, feel free to post them. This applies to anyone. I don't hide this stuff.

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 1:08 AM. Reason : dlkj]

9/20/2007 1:00:53 AM

I have some notes on "Axis II-Axis I associations", basically saying that you can compare the traits (but not the severity?) of these disorders:

Avoidant – Social Phobia, Panic d.o.
Schizotypal, Paranoid, Schizoid – Schizophrenia or Delusional disorder
Histrionic – Somatoform disorders
Borderline – Bipolar Mood disorder
Obsessive Compulsive - OCD

9/20/2007 1:05:12 AM

Quote :

"BPD (Boderline Personality Disorder) is basically one step away from being a psychopath, and it's not particularly treatable. it can be described as someone who is basically lacking a conscience"

Wow, this could not possibly be more bogus, particularly the part about lacking a conscience. WTF?? I think you've confused BPD with anti-social personality disorder...

I do weekly group therapy sessions for people with BPD, and they are some of the most caring, empathic people I've ever met. People with BPD typically do WAY more self-harm than harm to others. Some of them do act impulsively without considering the consequences, but once they realize what they've done, they are often filled with guilt and regret and do a lot of self-loathing. So, your comment about lacking a conscience doesn't hold water, at least among the people I work with. People with BPD can be very difficult to work with, and the clients I work with typically haver alternating good and bad weeks... but I would never make the statement that "it's not particularly treatable." I've seen major lasting progress in each of my clients. Dialectical Behavioral Therapy has a fairly extensive evidence base to support its utility in treating people with BPD.

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 1:09 AM. Reason : g]

9/20/2007 1:07:20 AM

y'all are right. i confused BPD with anti-social PD.



oh, well, i'm just glad i have aa R&D engineering job, and don't have to deal with ANY people, especially crazy fuckers.

9/20/2007 2:26:10 AM

she could also have a frontal lobe tumor or something

9/20/2007 2:36:22 AM

id rather have a frontal lo---

no, wait.

id rather have a fronta imbottleme than a frontal ---

shit.

id rather have a botta imfrontalme than a --

aw fuck it.

9/20/2007 3:49:19 AM

i learned yesterday that my boss can now require that i go see a mental health professional if he believes something is going on with me that if affecting not only my work, but even my just my life in general. we have something set up with our health insurance and EAP (employee assistance program) and we get six free visits a year or something. you might want to talk to hr and see if there is something like this. granted, i do work in a mental health field where there is a lot of importance put on things like this, but you could at least check into it.

9/20/2007 10:03:16 AM

^ employers can require employees to go see mental health professionals, but any therapist who has any ethics at all will not disclose any information from the sessions back to the employer

9/20/2007 10:41:14 AM

^i didn't mean that by any means. i just meant so this person's boss can get the help the may need.

9/20/2007 11:46:16 AM

I've been diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder. I've graduated college, hold a stable job, and have many steadfast friends in my life. I've also had periods of extreme distress, self mutilation, and periodic thoughts of suicide.

I resent those who classify BPD as a "crazy" disease. My main issue is that I take extreme offense to actions that other people may percieve as no big deal. In my view, if I'D call when I knew I was going to be an hour late meeting someone, I take it as a personal insult when others don't and tend to get upset to the extreme. It all boils down to a fear of abandonment and percieved unworthiness.

I've done DBP therapy, psychotherapy, meds, light boxes, ect. There's no "one solution" to this issue, and most people who know me have no idea about the issues I deal with on a daily basis. I come off as confident and strong, and I'd say I am FAR more sensitive to others needs than the average person.

Just thought you guys should have a more balanced view on the issue from someone who lives it every day

9/20/2007 12:53:37 PM

why would any of you actually get on a public message board and admit to "spending time at the crazy house"

or having a disorder like BPD. Shit like that is something you think most people would want to keep private.

9/20/2007 1:57:44 PM

Quote :

"Shit like that is something you think most people would want to keep private."

1) There's no good reason to hide it. None
2) That is the answer to "why would any of you actually get on a public message board and admit to "spending time at the crazy house"

If you're asking that, you're probably not very aware of all the misconceptions and lack of education in the general public regarding damn near every mental disorder.

9/20/2007 2:02:35 PM

Besides, far more people make asses of themselves on here just by being the douchebags they are than I ever could by admitting I have a mental disorder.

9/20/2007 2:18:04 PM

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=more+diagnosed+with+bipolar&btnG=Search

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 2:38 PM. Reason : ]

9/20/2007 2:37:21 PM

Quote :

"I'D call when I knew I was going to be an hour late meeting someone, I take it as a personal insult when others don't and tend to get upset to the extreme. It all boils down to a fear of abandonment and percieved unworthiness. "

so basically, every female has BPD?

9/20/2007 2:43:57 PM

Quote :

"oh, well, i'm just glad i have aa R&D engineering job, and don't have to deal with ANY people, especially crazy fuckers. "

I dissagree with this statement... working in design groups you will encounter egomaniacs, BPD and antisocial people on a regular basis... now that brings me to my question...

whats the difference between a person who is really easy to press their buttons and somebody thats BPD? or is there a difference... Somebody who will vastly over-react to criticism typically b/c they are massively stressed... at what point is it a dissorder? b/c stress sometimes lasts for extended periods of time (like gradschool)

9/20/2007 4:15:59 PM

yeah engineering tends to be a magnet for those w/ anti-social as well as schizo-typo disorders

9/20/2007 4:23:54 PM

My sister has BPD. It can be absolute hell. It comes in stages.

I truly appreciate someone sharing what it is like. It takes a big person to admit that htey have a disorder.

9/21/2007 9:34:30 AM

i'm lost. which one are we using BPD to refer to?

9/21/2007 9:38:46 AM

Quote :

"she doesn't need to be supervising anyone, for the time being. "

9/21/2007 7:45:21 PM

this sounds like a thread i posted in. i've been off my meds for like 2 weeks. thinking about refilling tomorrow though.

9/22/2007 3:29:43 PM

keep it pharmaco, B.

9/24/2007 2:23:08 AM

My sister has Borderline Personality Disorder after a head injury. She tends to be more manipulative and makes lifestyle changes in a drop of a hat (fear of rejection, unworthiness).

9/24/2007 11:25:33 AM

Quote :

"My sister has Borderline Personality Disorder after a head injury. She tends to be more manipulative and makes lifestyle changes in a drop of a hat (fear of rejection, unworthiness)."

I do not think you can just develop a personality disorder like BPD after a blow to the ole noggin like getting amnesia or something. Anyone else have a take.

9/24/2007 11:38:47 AM

Yeah - a diagnosis of a personality/mental disorder requires that an organic cause, like a head injury, not be the cause.

I forget which lobe controls personality, frontal or temporal, but head injuries != personality disorder.

Most diagnoses (should) have certain causes ruled out before making a diagnosis, one of those being that the problem is, in fact, mental in nature, and not directly caused some known, or possible, illness or injury.

9/24/2007 11:54:23 AM

Yeah, I used to think the same thing

Borderline Personality Disorder has been linked to head injuries. My bff is a school psych and learned all about it in her course work.

This is the best link I could find quickly. It is in the bottom right hand corner of the first page. http://www.narsad.org/dc/pdf/facts.bpersonalityd.pdf

9/24/2007 12:53:00 PM