Quote :

"NEW YORK - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad asked permission to lay a wreath at the World Trade Center site when he comes to New York City next week, but the request was denied, a police official said Wednesday. The U.S. also has denied a visa to Iran's United Nations ambassador in Geneva to attend next week's General Assembly meeting because he was involved in the 1979 U.S. hostage crisis, a U.N. official said. Ahmadinejad, who is arriving Sunday to address the United Nations' General Assembly, had asked this month for permission to visit the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, police spokesman Paul Browne said. The request to enter the fenced-in site was rejected because of ongoing construction there, Browne said. "Requests for the Iranian president to visit the immediate area would also be opposed by the NYPD on security grounds," Browne said. The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad, told reporters Wednesday that the United States would not support Iran's attempt to use the site for a "photo op." "Iran can demonstrate its seriousness about concern with regard to terrorism by taking concrete actions," such as dropping support for Lebanese militant group Hezbollah and suspending their uranium enrichment program, Khalilzad said. Browne said Ahmadinejad had asked permission from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, U.S. Secret Service and police department. The police and the Secret Service provide security to visiting heads of state. The Port Authority, which owns the trade center site and is the only agency that could grant permission to go inside, said it attended a meeting with police regarding dignitary visits, not specifically about Ahmadinejad. At that meeting, it was determined that no dignitaries would be allowed inside the site due to ongoing construction, said Port Authority spokesman Steve Coleman. It wasn't clear whether Ahmadinejad wanted to descend to the base of the trade center site, where the twin towers once stood, or lay a wreath on a public sidewalk outside the site. Mohammad Mir Ali Mohammadi, spokesman for the Iranian mission to the U.N., said he was not notified offically that Ahmadinejad would not be allowed at the site, but said it was unfortunate. "President Ahmadinejad intended to lay a wreath at the site of ground zero in order to pay tribute to the victims of the terrorists attack of Sept. 11, 2001. We are hopeful that we can still work something out with the police department," he said. White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said a visit to ground zero "is a matter for the city of New York, but it seems more than odd that the president of a country that is a state sponsor of terror would visit ground zero." It was not clear what role Ali Reza Moaiyeri, Iran's U.N. ambassador in Geneva, played in the 1979 hostage crisis. The U.N. official who said his visa was denied spoke on condition of anonymity because there has been no public announcement. Richard Grenell, spokesman for the U.S. Mission to the United Nations, said, "although we don't comment about specific visa cases we certainly would not allow a person into the United States who has taken Americans as hostages." Iran and the U.S. have not had diplomatic relations since Washington cut its ties with Tehran during the hostage crisis in which U.S. diplomats were held hostage for 444 days. The Bush administration has accused Iran of arming Shiite Muslim militants in Iraq and seeking to develop nuclear weapons. In a television appearance earlier this week, Ahmadinejad said his country wanted peace and friendship with the United States, as tensions continued to mount between the two countries. The deputy commander of Iran's air force said Wednesday that plans have been drawn up to bomb Israel if the Jewish state attacks Iran, according to the semiofficial Fars news agency. The United States and its key European allies are calling for a new round of U.N. sanctions against Iran over its disputed nuclear program, but Russia has warned against the use of force in Iran and opposes new sanctions to punish Tehran. "

Now I know that Ahmadinejad officially had nothing to do with 9-11, just like he officially had nothing to do with the Hostages held by Iranians in 1979-80. But the image I have of him laying a wreath at Ground Zero looks a lot like the scene in Raiders - where the Nazis open up the Ark and their faces melt.

9/20/2007 12:11:18 AM

Quote :

"I know that Ahmadinejad officially had nothing to do with 9-11, just like he officially had nothing to do with the Hostages held by Iranians in 1979-80."

what the FUCK kind of logic is that?

9/20/2007 12:40:51 AM

the US is just making itself look bad on the international scene by doing this.

9/20/2007 12:49:53 AM

Bullshit. Iran supports the terrorist group hezbollah with training and weapons. Ahmadinejad was directly involved in the 1979 hostage crisis. No way in hell he sets foot anywhere near ground zero.

It's just a publicity stunt by Ahmadinejad anyway.

9/20/2007 12:59:57 AM

It's kind of strange that the president at the heart of the Axis of Evil is going to be in New York City.

Quote :

"White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said a visit to ground zero "is a matter for the city of New York, but it seems more than odd that the president of a country that is a state sponsor of terror would visit ground zero.""

Oh, snap!!1

9/20/2007 1:02:48 AM

Since when have publicity stunts been a bad thing (our prez gets his share in)?

Quote :

"White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said a visit to ground zero "is a matter for the city of New York, but it seems more than odd that the president of a country that is a state sponsor of terror would visit ground zero." "

That's pretty idiotic reasoning. Ahmabdiegng had practically nothing to do with 9/11, it's retarded to try and draw connections to him and 9/11 and say it's odd he wants to visit the site on that basis. It's MORE odd, to me, that he even wants to visit America.

9/20/2007 1:37:42 AM

Quote :

"had practically nothing to do with 9/11, it's retarded to try and draw connections to him and 9/11"

9/20/2007 1:44:28 AM

Our country is apparently fragile as shit

9/20/2007 1:44:36 AM

I think this is more about its potential propaganda use, showing the Iranian president standing in fanatical Islam's greatest achievement.

9/20/2007 1:46:58 AM

9/20/2007 1:57:52 AM

Quote :

"Bullshit. Iran supports the terrorist group hezbollah with training and weapons. Ahmadinejad was directly involved in the 1979 hostage crisis. No way in hell he sets foot anywhere near ground zero. It's just a publicity stunt by Ahmadinejad anyway. "

Hezbollah is at the front in the fight against the aggressor Israel. How else are they supposed to defend themselves and fight for their lands without weapons and training? Water pistols perhaps? You people need to get the fuck off your high horse.

9/20/2007 2:02:36 AM

Hezbollah killed 241 US Marines on a peacekeeping mission as they slept in the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing. They bombed the Khobar towers in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 US Airmen. I don't defend Israel's aggressive actions, you shouldn't defend the terrorist scum and suicide bombers that make up Hezbollah's militia.

The issue is terrorism, and Iran continues to sponsor it not only by funding groups such as Hezbollah but also providing them with training, plans and specific targets. Read this link for some details about just how far Iran will go to attack the US:

Quote :

"Before his appointment as the top U.S. administrator in Iraq, L. Paul Bremer chaired the National Commission on Terrorism, which studied the Khobar attack. The commission concluded that "Iran remains the most active state supporter of terrorism. . . . The IRGC and MOIS have continued to be involved in the planning and execution of terrorist acts. They also provide funding, training, weapons, logistical resources, and guidance to a variety of terrorist groups, including Hezbollah, Hamas, PIJ, and PFLP-GC." "

http://www.geocities.com/munichseptember1972/justice.html

Ground zero is the site of the most horrific terrorist attack in US history, and having the President of a terrorist-sponsoring government visit is wrong on many levels. The fact that they weren't involved in that attack is not the point.

The Nazi analogy that Earthdogg used is almost a sound one, but I would say that if Al Qaeda = Nazis, then Ahmadinejad would be an associated Axis leader like Mussolini. And trust me, he would not have been welcome paying tribute to the holocaust victims at Auschwitz.

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 2:52 AM. Reason : 2]

9/20/2007 2:38:14 AM

Quote :

"just a publicity stunt"

9/20/2007 7:09:43 AM

Quote :

"the US is just making itself look bad on the international scene by doing this."

Yeah, more playground politics from us.

9/20/2007 7:09:50 AM

Quote :

""Iran can demonstrate its seriousness about concern with regard to terrorism by taking concrete actions," such as dropping support for Lebanese militant group Hezbollah and suspending their uranium enrichment program, Khalilzad said."

oh snap! pwn in the face

9/20/2007 8:04:44 AM

Quote :

"the US is just making itself look bad on the international scene by doing this"

9/20/2007 9:05:02 AM

i thought it was a free country and a man can step wherever he please

9/20/2007 9:17:53 AM

pretty sure there's a difference between american citizens and leaders of hostile enemy nations

9/20/2007 9:36:19 AM

if it were up to me he would be arrested the second he steps on US soil. he is a criminal and by most accounts was directly involved in taking Americans hostage in 1979.

not to mention that his weapons are killing US soldiers in Iraq and he openly supports ideas like wiping countries off the map.

this guy is a nutjob and I have no time for him, nor should our government.

9/20/2007 9:37:44 AM

Quote :

"this guy is a nutjob and I have no time for him, nor should our government."

Well spoken. The case is not that he is tied to 9/11 and therefore there is a problem. He IS clearly tied to groups with the same goals and lines of thinking. I think

Quote :

"if Al Qaeda = Nazis, then Ahmadinejad would be an associated Axis leader like Mussolini. And trust me, he would not have been welcome paying tribute to the holocaust victims at Auschwitz."

provides a pretty accurate comparison.

He is not Al-quaeda, but for all intensive purposes, he is the same sort of scum and I don't want to see him in this country unless it's in a coffin.

9/20/2007 10:29:10 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, more playground politics from us. "

No shit.

The US needs to work on fixing its international relations and stop acting like the bully on the playground holding a big stick. There is a reason that all these other nations speak out against the US not say Austrailia, Sweden, or Japan. I am not saying that we are in the wrong a lot of the time but the Bush admin in my opinion is sub-par on its diplomacy skills.

I am waiting for some military hawk to make a comment like "fuck, diplomacy we can fuck up & nuke any country we want in the world who is against us"

9/20/2007 10:55:18 AM

Yea, having the leader of Iran visiting Ground Zero looks bad. But what looks worse is us saying that he can't go. It's time this country starts trying to fix it's international relationships, instead of making them worse....

9/20/2007 12:05:05 PM

Quote :

"Yea, having the leader of Iran visiting Ground Zero looks bad. But what looks worse is us saying that he can't go. It's time this country starts trying to fix it's international relationships, instead of making them worse...."

he is not so much the leader as he is spokesperson. the problem is he is making such a big deal with it. he can go visit without annoucing it to the world and requiring US money for protection (police, secret service, etc...)

let Bush go visit Iran and see how much state protection he gets.

9/20/2007 12:11:47 PM

I don't see anything wrong with him going. But, I think he's a douche bag for even wanting to go. That's like inviting Michael Vick to the National Dog Show.

9/20/2007 12:13:51 PM

and then saying the Dog Show looks bad for not wanting...Michael Vick there

good to see HUR and others in the "Blame America" crowd chime in

IT MAKES THE USA LOOK EVEN WORSE IF WE DONT INVITE USAMA BIN LADIN TO VISIT GROUND ZERO


[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 12:16 PM. Reason : pshh]

9/20/2007 12:16:05 PM

Quote :

"That's like inviting Michael Vick to the National Dog Show."

Quote :

"and then saying the Dog Show looks bad for not wanting...Michael Vick there"

There's a point there. But that's suggesting that Ahmadinejad was directly involved with the events of 9/11 when he's only just supposedly a supporter of terrorism.

9/20/2007 12:36:56 PM

Quote :

"Hezbollah killed 241 US Marines on a peacekeeping mission as they slept in the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing. They bombed the Khobar towers in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 US Airmen. I don't defend Israel's aggressive actions, you shouldn't defend the terrorist scum and suicide bombers that make up Hezbollah's militia."

US Marines + Airmen are now civilians? First you bitch that they are targeting civilians then its because they're targeting soldiers. Not that I support the death of US soldiers at all...but i'm looking at the bigger picture here. the US is in Israel's little corner with disregard to whats wrong and right. Israel is a bully and a major aggressor in the region, greedy for more land and power. Hezbollah isn't a regular army because Lebanon and Palestine don't have that kind of funding and stability so they have to rely on unconventional means of defense. So its ok to call them terrorist scum when the US and Israel have killed and wounded so many more innocent civilians? Sounds to me that the terrorist scum are on your side of the fence.

9/20/2007 12:44:25 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, more playground politics from us"

Ahmadinejad could give two rat fucks about the people who died on September 11th. His intent is a photo-op that says to moderates around the world, "look, I'm not such a bad guy, even if I do deny the Holocaust and demand that Israel cease to exist."

Our denying him permission will be pretty quickly forgotten, a photograph that would capture the moment forever . . . nah, this was a good call and isn't playground politics at all.

I swear, some folks need to get their heads out of there asses.

9/20/2007 12:46:32 PM

Quote :

"I don't see anything wrong with him going. But, I think he's a douche bag for even wanting to go. That's like inviting Michael Vick to the National Dog Show."

Quote :

"IT MAKES THE USA LOOK EVEN WORSE IF WE DONT INVITE USAMA BIN LADIN TO VISIT GROUND ZERO "

I am sure you two both still believe Sadaam was involved in 9/11 too right??? Both leaders are/were shitty autocratic despots but you all need to put shit in perspective. I do think Iran is meddling in Iraq and probably is funding rouge militant factions but as far as 9/11 goes

Quote :

"Ahmadinejad's predecessor at the time of the September 11 attacks, Mohammed Khatami, condemned them, and Tehran cooperated with the U.S.-led campaign to topple al Qaeda's Taliban allies in Afghanistan that followed."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/19/ahmadinejad.ground.zero/index.html

I may hate the guy in the cubicle down the hall, he may have undermined one of my important projects in the past, however, i cannot just punch the guy in the stomach if he comes to my cube to say hello.

I do not agree with him making a political issue over visiting the WTC. But we are letting him win by making it a hot international news topic. Let the bastard walk the streets of NYC; then when he gets jumped by a bunch of angry citizens then it is his own damn fault. As an American I would not want to walk around with my USA t-shirt, blasting my ipod btw phone calls while walking around downtown Baghdad or Tehran.

9/20/2007 12:58:53 PM

Quote :

" I swear, some folks need to get their heads out of there asses."

you mean like you? oh high and mighty one....

9/20/2007 12:59:19 PM

^^I'm pretty sure my analogy of media coverage in WW2 versus Iraq is a SHITLOAD MORE ACCURATE than your analogy of 9/11 versus some guy in the cubicle down the hall

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 1:00 PM. Reason : ^^]

9/20/2007 1:00:25 PM

Quote :

"I do think Iran is meddling in Iraq and probably is funding rouge militant factions but as far as 9/11 goes"

Look at history all the way to the crusades, especially in that region. When your brother is attacked you come to his aid. Muslim countries are obligated to helping each other or their citizens will not be so happy when it comes to situations like Iraq now.

9/20/2007 1:02:49 PM

Quote :

"Muslim countries are obligated to helping each other"

9/20/2007 1:03:59 PM

^ is that supposed to show us you can post images or that you can use google images to search for them?

9/20/2007 1:05:19 PM

it is supposed to show how completely fucked up the statement i quoted was...i think most people understand

you sure are quick to bash other religions but oh its ok for muslims to do anything since they all worship the same imaginary god

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 1:07 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2007 1:07:07 PM

thats funny, I'm Christian but I know we aren't the only religion to inhabit this small planet so a high level of tolerance for one another is a must in order to live peacefully...this includes cultures too. But you are both too high and too self-absorbed to know that.

and how exactly am I quick to bash other religions?

you based your entire out look on the world on one small group of fanatics...and by small I mean in comparison to the rest of their religion. I'd say that is ignorance.

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 1:13 PM. Reason : fda]

9/20/2007 1:09:51 PM

this was a win/win for him

a) he gets denied...LOOK AMERICA IS BEING A DICK

b) they let him do it...he stands next to the site and yells ZOMG USA#1 GOT OWNED

9/20/2007 1:12:43 PM

more like win/lose for America.

Deny him access and you lose. Grant him access and you win by higher moral ground.

9/20/2007 1:15:29 PM

^ I think it's a little more complicated than that. Yes, by letting him do what he wants to do, we gain higher moral ground. But, you have to take a lot of people's feelings into consideration. We have no evidence that he's ever committed any terrorist act. But, we have hunches. And hunches are enough to turn people off.

For example, if John Smith (Osama) murdered your father/mother/brother/sister, and later that year one of his best friends (Ahmadinejad) wanted to visit your father's grave (Ground Zero), I'm sure you'd have mix feelings about it. I don't blame people for that. Especially not those who lived in New York and experienced that event.

If Ahmadinejad was sincerely apologetic and he vowed to fight against terrorism and the like in his country then I think people would be more willing to forgive him. But, apparently, those aren't his goals right now.

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 1:38 PM. Reason : people died there, there are still a lot of emotions like anger, fear, sorrow]

9/20/2007 1:37:47 PM

Quote :

"For example, if John Smith (Osama) murdered your father/mother/brother/sister, and later that year one of his best friends (Ahmadinejad) wanted to visit your father's grave (Ground Zero)"

or what if john smith murdered your father/mother/brothers/sister, then next year you let his brothers come stay at your house, sign a partnership w/ his uncle to run a business, then go to a ball game with one of john's old buddies from college.

oh wait.... osama bin laden's close relatives are involved in the Saudi binladin group who have close business relations to the Carlyle group who George Bush and fam have major investment in.

Shafig bin Laden, who is osama's half brothers was staying as a guest with the Carlyle group at the time of 9/11 and was given special permission by bush and a charter jet to safely leave the US after the World Trade center attacks.

Quote :

"If Ahmadinejad was sincerely apologetic and he vowed to fight against terrorism and the like in his country then I think people would be more willing to forgive him. But, apparently, those aren't his goals right now."

Politics is all relative. From the view point of the average iranian the terrorists in Iraq are freedom fighters struggling to release their brother Iraq from the grips of the imperialist US

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 1:55 PM. Reason : l]

9/20/2007 1:54:07 PM

Quote :

"Politics is all relative. From the view point of the average iranian the terrorists in Iraq are freedom fighters struggling to release their brother Iraq from the grips of the imperialist US"

how much access does the average Iranian have to information? (thanks to Ahmadinejad) I doubt very much that the average Iranian person thinks that it is ok to use civilians as shields and car bomb soft targets.

9/20/2007 2:05:53 PM

A lot of you are making mountains out of molehills, seeing that this whole affair is pretty much a diplomatic non-issue. Anything we do that's between rolling out the red carpet for him and arresting him as soon as he gets off the plane will barely register anywhere in the world, including here and in Iran.

9/20/2007 3:24:19 PM

Quote :

""I don't see anything wrong with him going. But, I think he's a douche bag for even wanting to go. That's like inviting Michael Vick to the National Dog Show.""

this is idiodic. its actually like not allowing jake delhomme to the dog show because he is an nfc south qtrbk when in reality he has nothing to do with mike vick and actually rivals him.

9/20/2007 3:30:33 PM

And that comparison may actually be even weaker.

Really and truly, it's like inviting that guy who set fire to his cat to the dog show. Sure, the guy who set fire to the cat didn't torture all those dogs, but he's still the guy who set fire to a cat.

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 3:43 PM. Reason : doesn't roll off the tongue as well as the dahmer reference but I'll roll with it]

9/20/2007 3:42:48 PM

^^Worst analogy yet

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 3:43 PM. Reason : 2]

9/20/2007 3:43:17 PM

This thread is tempting me to create the first official soap box thread for bad analogies.

9/20/2007 3:47:12 PM

Quote :

"more like win/lose for America. Deny him access and you lose. Grant him access and you win by higher moral ground."

Exactly what do we lose? This is a historical footnote which will quickly be forgotten.

I'm sure there is a young Muslim boy in the mountains of Pakistan, debating on what path to take in life who is see this and think "ZOMG! that is so outrageous! I hate America now" Or the Shia' Iraqi boy whose father was killed by American Soldiers (rightly or wrongly, not starting that debate) and who hates them with all his might . . . but nah 'b they let AJ drop a wreath, they're cool.

On top of that, Iranians are actively supplying arms to militant groups in Iraq and the government is, at best, turning a blind eye, at worst, actively supporting this.

We denied him the opportunity for a photo-op. This isn't exactly the Cuban Missile Crisis.

9/20/2007 4:06:05 PM

Quote :

"This thread is tempting me to create the first official soap box thread for bad analogies. "

AWESOME idea. seriously, get that one going. with treetwista roaming around, that thread would be instant comedy gold

as far as the topic of this thread...why the fuck does he need permission to go to ground zero? i realize he's probably asking for security and whatnot, but if he really wants to go, he can just walk his ass over there like any other random tourist

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 4:34 PM. Reason : ,]

9/20/2007 4:32:02 PM

bad analogies != you being too stupid to understand them

9/20/2007 4:38:15 PM

that doesn't even make sense, but okay.



[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 4:45 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2007 4:40:46 PM