Quote :

" On Friday, September 21, the The Rocky Mountain Collegian editorial board printed a statement bashing President Bush in its Opinion section in an effort to highlight the importance of free speech on a college campus. In doing so, the editorial board and I realized the statement was controversial and unpopular among some students and community members. This letter should serve as an explanation to readers who were offended and upset by the editorial statement. While the editorial board feels strongly with regard to first amendment issues, we have found the unintended consequences of such a bold statement to be extremely disheartening. As a student-run publication with a proud 116-year tradition of serving Colorado State University Students and the surrounding communities, it is our responsibility to uphold the standards set by my predecessors. We intend to continue this tradition. As local and national media will inevitably jump on this controversy, I strongly urge the university community to try and understand that the intentions of the students on staff, including me, were not to cause harm, but rather to reinforce the importance of free speech at our great institution. My staff and I are extremely proud to be CSU students and members of this amazing community, and it is my sincere hope that our readers understand our intentions were not malicious. The First Amendment is at the very core of what we do as a newspaper. We as journalists wish to celebrate it, utilize it and, sometimes, defend it. The Collegian editorial board, a group of seven student editors charged with determining a staff editorial for each issue, voted to run the editorial statement. This vote was a split vote, but the board as a whole as agreed to stand behind this decision and to continue the Collegian tradition. Finally, we are available to any students or community members who wish to voice their complaints, feedback or opinions regarding this issue. Please don't hesitate to send your letters to letters@collegian.com or by submitting them online at http://www.collegian.com. Sincerely, J. David McSwane Editor in Chief "

http://www.collegian.com/media/storage/paper864/news/2007/09/21/News/Letter.From.Collegian.Editor.In.Chief.Regarding.Bush.Statement-2984663.shtml

[Edited on September 22, 2007 at 8:39 PM. Reason : .]

9/22/2007 8:38:14 PM

9/22/2007 8:53:25 PM

Its definitely a ballsy move, I wonder if the Technician would ever do something like this

9/22/2007 8:54:42 PM

.... point?

should we be outraged at the "FUCK BUSH"?
or are we supposed to be outraged that they had to explain themselves?
or is it that Bush is being blamed, at least indirectly, for a loudmouth in FL being tasered?

9/22/2007 8:54:53 PM

bush had to do with the tasering how?

9/22/2007 9:11:39 PM

This didn't have anything to do with Bush being involved in the tasering. It has to do with not having authorities punish political speech.

9/22/2007 9:18:02 PM

^ The kid wasn't tasered because of his political speech. This isn't a free speech issue by any means.

9/22/2007 9:36:50 PM

Of course its about free speech. Don't just make shit up, thats irritating.

9/22/2007 9:53:27 PM

The kid was removed because he was a nuisance. He was tasered for not cooperating with the police.

The cops didn't grab him because they disagreed with what he was saying. It's not an issue of free speech.

9/22/2007 10:05:31 PM

Enter xvang's bad analogy #1,

Comparing this issue with free speech is like saying that Micheal Vick was charged of a crime because he was black.

It had nothing to do with his color. He was fighting dogs and killing them. He wouldn't have ever been arrested if he was good to the animals.

It had nothing to do with his speech. He was being a nuisance and became physical with the cops. He wouldn't have ever been tazed if he cooperated with the cops.

[/sarcasm + pinch of truth]

[Edited on September 22, 2007 at 10:29 PM. Reason : i'm bored tonight]

9/22/2007 10:28:49 PM

thats hilarious

9/22/2007 10:33:53 PM

when the best you can come up with is "FUCK BUSH!," then I think your college needs a better editorial staff. And the grammar and shit in that explanation was atrocious.

9/22/2007 10:47:21 PM

Quote :

"The kid was removed because he was a nuisance."

Define how being a nuisance is not related to speech.

9/22/2007 11:03:54 PM

The kid, while a giant douchebag, shouldn't have been tasered.

9/22/2007 11:08:37 PM

Explain why it is.

I could just as easily argue that freedom of speech means that I can crap on the sidewalk.

9/22/2007 11:16:12 PM

but that would only apply to you since you are so full of shit that so much of it must come out of your mouth when you speak

9/22/2007 11:17:27 PM

Pretty weak editorial, but hoo-ray for Free Speech!

I remember back when Pope John Paul 1st died just 33 days after becoming the Holy Father.

Our campus paper had a big front page headline: GOD VETOES POPE!

9/22/2007 11:21:05 PM

Crapping on a sidewalk has public health considerations. But I could support an argument where you said you wanted to crap on the sidewalk. I remind you that the freedom of speech is meant to protect speech that is not well liked. Should this guy have removed for being an nuisance? Probably? But tasered? No. The use of weapons of any kind should be reserved for people who constitute a physical threat. Not because police want to punish someone for inconveniencing them.

9/22/2007 11:23:51 PM

^ I actually agree with most of that.

I just think that its an issue of excessive force and not a first amendment violation.

9/22/2007 11:33:32 PM

^ It's a bit of both.

The reason the guy is perceived as a nuisance rather than a freedom fighter is that it's widely accepted by society that the whole Skull and Bones conspiracy theorists (that they're some secret shadow gov. organization or something like that) are nutjobs.

But, let's pretend that he was right, and it was widely suspected that Bush and Kerry were both part of some plot to take over America for some nefarious purpose. His being removed from the mic would be perceived as trying to silence him for his beliefs.

The only reason it's not seen that way really in this situation is that we all presume he's nutty. Salisburyboy is probably somewhere flipping out about this on free speech ground.

9/23/2007 12:22:01 AM

If you want to make a statement on Free Speech then at least say something with some substance.

Quote :

"The use of weapons of any kind should be reserved for people who constitute a physical threat. Not because police want to punish someone for inconveniencing them."

Its not just an inconvenience. You would not believe the number of officers that are put out of commission for extended periods of time because of injuries from dealing with stupid crap. My brother-in-law was just talking tonight at dinner about the number of officers under him that he loses to thrown out backs, broken fingers, twisted ankles, etc. all from dealing with drunks and nuisances. Trying to physically detain or remove someone without a taser or pepper spray often result in injuries to the individual or the officer. The effect of the taser is temporary and has pretty much no long term risk to either party when used properly. Hell, my brother-in-law himself lost his sure thing with the FBI because when arresting someone they fought back and his finger got tangled up in the guys jacket and it tore multiple ligaments in his trigger finger. He can no longer bend his right hand index finger, even after a couple corrective surgery attempts. He also had to go from Tactical Team lead, K-9 handler, and NARC lead to a desk job. Tasering could have prevented his injury.

9/23/2007 12:25:59 AM

I think it's really strange that George Bush had practically nothing to do with this, and it was a Kerry speech, and they chose to use "FUCK BUSH."

Regardless of their point, that doesn't reflect positively on the editorial staff.

9/23/2007 1:09:42 AM

That headline is simply impossible. The left-wing moonbats here in TSB have assured me that there is no liberal bias in the media.

9/23/2007 4:26:55 AM

i would hardly call a collegiate editorial page "the media"

9/23/2007 9:36:12 AM

haha, can you imagine someone describing the technician as being part of the media

9/23/2007 9:53:07 AM

I like seeing people get tasered.

9/23/2007 10:10:45 AM

Hmm, how is "Fuck Bush" even controversial? I've read it before in an opinion section, just not sure where.

Now, if they really want to push the boundaries of free speech, publish this cartoon:

9/23/2007 10:48:57 AM

well this was a big waste of time

9/23/2007 1:22:50 PM

Quote :

"The kid was removed because he was a nuisance. He was tasered for not cooperating with the police. The cops didn't grab him because they disagreed with what he was saying. It's not an issue of free speech."

EXACTLY.

the student tried to hijack the entire forum with a US Senator, with his own laundry list of grievances and conspiracy theories, waving his favorite book around like it was Exhibit A at the OJ Simpson trial.

If Kerry wanted him to continue, i think he could use his leadership skills as a decorated Vietnam combat officer, and ranking US Senator to tell the campus cops to stand the fuck down.

the reason why Kerry didnt is obvious. the student was a complete douchnozzle and wouldn't shut the fuck up after being told a number of times -- by the event hosts -- that his time was up.

THEN he became belligerent and combative with law enforcement officers assigned to event security (protecting the proceedings with a ranking US Senator!) and the guy escalated the confrontation from one of "please sir, you'll have to step down now" to physically struggling against law enforcement giving him lawful orders to cease and desist.

I have a relative who's a Master Agent in the Secret Service, and the kid is goddamned lucky he was only dealing with his campus police.

like i said somewhere else,

Quote :

"fuck that guy"

9/23/2007 5:12:52 PM

^What he said. I just read that after posting.

How did they get from a guy yelling at John Kerry and getting tasered when he started getting physical with security to Fuck Bush?

That is some terrible logic.

And the fact is, Kerry is still a Senator. The police reacted the way that they did because of the students seemingly irrational and unpredictable behavior. I wouldn't doubt it if the cops got the order from secret service to pull the guy out.

Unfortunately, people are fucking crazy these days and just because he is some white kid from an apparently middle class background doesn't mean that he isn't going to try some stupid shit with a US Senator in the room.

Fucking taser his ass again.

[Edited on September 23, 2007 at 7:26 PM. Reason : :sad:]

9/23/2007 7:25:35 PM

DON'T TASE ME, BRO!

9/23/2007 7:32:33 PM

Quote :

"when the best you can come up with is "FUCK BUSH!," then I think your college needs a better editorial staff."

Yup

Quote :

"the whole Skull and Bones conspiracy theorists (that they're some secret shadow gov. organization or something like that) are nutjobs."

I don't think there is some secret shadow government, but I wouldn't underestimate the inclination towards nepotism within the ranks of the already rich and powerful.

I think Jay Leno made a good point, if inadvertently, after John Dean's star was falling and John Kerry was on the rise, "Well, it went from being the white Yale graduate from Vermont to the white Yale graduate from Massachusetts against the white Yale graduate from Connecticut. You know, this changes everything."

[Edited on September 23, 2007 at 8:12 PM. Reason : .]

9/23/2007 7:59:42 PM

John Dean? Who the fuck is John Dean?

9/23/2007 8:38:15 PM

U R SMRT

you know goddamn well who he meant

9/23/2007 9:10:46 PM

aww shit. I'd been listening to some podcasts about Watergate earlier.

John Dean was Nixon's White House Counsel, of course I meant Howard Dean.

dur.

9/23/2007 9:19:58 PM

Quote :

"John Dean"

9/24/2007 8:50:01 AM

way to be late to the party, see above ^^

9/24/2007 10:36:58 AM

Quote :

"John Dean"

9/24/2007 10:43:10 AM

even if the kid was being a nuisance it doesnt mean he shouldnt had been heard
he had every right to be up there and ask questions.

if there were rules outlined before the "town meeting" or what ever then he should have been removed. The admin who was in control of the Q&A should have cut his mic and had him removed.

the cops could have pulled out of the room and outside and arrested him.

the police used excessive force on someone who was NOT a threat to anyone in that room

9/24/2007 10:44:28 AM

Quote :

"if there were rules outlined before the "town meeting" or what ever then he should have been removed."

They tried to do that.

Quote :

" The admin who was in control of the Q&A should have cut his mic and had him removed."

They did that

Quote :

"the cops could have pulled out of the room and outside and arrested him."

They did that and the kid fought back. Let me say that again, he fought with the police who were escorting him peacfuly (if not loudly) from the hall.

Quote :

"the police used excessive force on someone who was NOT a threat to anyone in that room"

The police used pain compliance to get a pysicaly resisting arrestee to comply with the lawful orders being given after giving him ample opportunities to comply on his own in the first place.

9/24/2007 3:32:16 PM

^.

Also, I read John Dean and assumed that he was either talking about Howard Dean or Jan and Dean of "Little Old Lady From Pasadena" fame.

9/24/2007 3:38:26 PM

^^^ gunnz, it's like you didn't even watch any of the videos... did you?


^ i was thinkin:





[Edited on September 24, 2007 at 5:44 PM. Reason : ]

9/24/2007 5:41:53 PM

Quote :

"when the best you can come up with is "FUCK BUSH!," then I think your college needs a better editorial staff"

9/24/2007 6:39:25 PM

ah, the maturity of college debate these days

9/24/2007 9:48:20 PM

Quote :

"haha, can you imagine someone describing the technician as being part of the media"

jwb9984

Haha, you don't have to "imagine" it--State describes it that way.

http://www.ncsu.edu/sma/

9/25/2007 12:56:54 AM

they call themselves "student media"

not "The Media"

9/25/2007 1:29:21 AM

yeah some of them are a whole year away from having jobs in "the media"

9/25/2007 1:30:30 AM

^^ Semantics. Technician is a part of the media whether you or some others here think it is or not. For example, Technician's content is sometimes used on U-Wire and they even have official press passes--among other reasons.

[Edited on September 25, 2007 at 1:36 AM. Reason : .]

9/25/2007 1:36:02 AM

U-Wire? U-WIRE????

Hells bells, man, I've had several items picked up by U-Wire.

Guess what the singlemost important thing to know about U-Wire is?

"No One Gives a Fuck"

well, except for College Media

9/25/2007 2:34:54 AM

UPDATE:

Quote :

"Calls for student editor to resign after 'F**k Bush' column "We'll present our petition to the board at the meeting," said student Chelsey Penoyer, the chairman of the College Republicans. "We're petitioning that he should resign on his own. The petition also urges students to think twice before going to businesses who continue advertising with The Collegian." In a confidential memo mistakenly released to the local newspaper, The Coloradoan, Fort Collins businesses have already pulled out $30,000 in advertising with The Collegian, which relies completely on external revenue to operate, not student fees."

Quote :

""At first I totally supported him and the paper," said senior Evan Isoline, who read the initial column when it came out. "I thought he was making a political statement and then throwing away his college career at the paper. I thought he would resign right away. "Now you look at it and it's like, 'Taser this. Taser what?' The issue isn't even about President Bush. If you're going to stand up for something like that you have to have something to back it up. You have to believe in something.""

Quote :

""I completely support him and the paper for their decision," said Alesia Gifford, vice president of the Young Democrats, another political student organization. "In this society we are taking a step backwards, especially with the free speech debate. President Bush has lost our respect as a country. "At some point we have to stand up for our rights. [McSwane] was just showing that speech, even when explicit, should always be protected by the First Amendment.""

Quote :

""It makes the students at Colorado State look like a bunch of uneducated children who don't have anything intelligent to say," Penoyer said. "So we just yell bad words." "

[Edited on September 25, 2007 at 12:40 PM. Reason : http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/25/bush.cnnu/index.html]

9/25/2007 12:39:42 PM