Not sure how to go about doing this. I graduated this past May with a History/Journalism degree, and am thinking about going back and taking some premed courses. There is one class requirement I could take online that is available this Spring semester.

Do I need to reapply to the life sciences colleges in order to take the required biologies? Do I fill out an application like a new student?
Im not sure how the process works if you are an alum going back to school wanting to take classes in a different division than the one you graduated from.

11/20/2007 11:48:54 AM

You do not need to reapply in the college of Life Sciences... and it doesn't matter if you came from CHASS and want to take courses in another department.

You should enroll as post-baccalaureate status through the lifelong education
(heres the link: http://www.ncsu.edu/acp/registration/newAndReturning.html)

Although the standard limit is 2 courses + a PE per semester under this classification, you can request to take full-time hours as long as you can show that you've taken full credit loads in the past (which you obviously have, since you already have a degree)

I am a humanities major who decided to go "pre-med" last year so I have quite a bit of experience in this arena. Though the pre-med advisors will recommend a whole slew of science major courses and advanced sciences, the only courses that medical schools are concerned with are the following:
- BIO181 (Biology I)
- BIO183 (Biology II)
- CH101 (General Chemistry)
- CH201 (Quantitative Chemistry)
- CH221 (Organic Chemistry I)
- CH223 (Organic Chemistry II)
- PY211 (Physics I)
- PY212 (Physics II)

I'm not going to lie and say advanced sciences courses serve no purpose to a pre-med student but in all honesty they aren't absolutely necessary and go way beyond the scope of the MCAT (which is based on just the topics covered in the courses above) Many medical schools state on their admissions websites that they prefer you don't take courses that will be repeated in the first and second years of the medical school curriculum (ie: anatomy and physiology, immunology, etc..)

Grades in the above courses are extremely, extremely important. So take them very seriously! Also, ensure that you take these courses here at NCSU or at another 4-year university because community college credits for these specific courses don't count towards medical school admissions requirements.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. I love to chat with other pre-meds =)

[Edited on November 20, 2007 at 12:29 PM. Reason : spelling mistake]

11/20/2007 12:29:11 PM

awwww- such a helpful post

11/20/2007 1:00:33 PM

Hey thanks alot! Ill let you know if I have some other questions.

11/20/2007 1:20:03 PM

according to uncs site they want biochem

11/20/2007 1:22:22 PM

yeah, unc has updated their dent/med stuff i think.

not the same classes i saw a couple years ago

11/20/2007 1:24:20 PM

wow is that all that is needed for med school? Maybe I should reconsider vet school, if med school is that easy. I've gotten an A in all those, except py212 (in that now). How much more work is it to go into something like gynecology? I may apply to both vet and med school then, in case vet school doesn't work I can have a fall back.

11/20/2007 2:21:42 PM

those class grades dont mean much.

its the MCAT that will decide most of it.

11/20/2007 2:29:35 PM

Quote :

"How much more work is it to go into something like gynecology? "

??

Med school admission requirements are the same for everyone. You don't pick a specialty until the 4th year of med school when you're applying for residency. At that point, anything you did in college is basically irrelevant--it's based on your USMLE scores, med school grades, clerkship evaluations, research, etc.

11/20/2007 4:45:38 PM

Quote :

"wow is that all that is needed for med school? Maybe I should reconsider vet school, if med school is that easy."

Thats all of the actual coursework required to be eligible to apply to medical school-- thats not all there is to it. It is not, by any means, easy to get into medical school. It is in fact harder to get into vet school from what I have read simply because there are fewer schools.

Currently, an average accepted medical school applicant has about a 3.67 Science GPA (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math) and an even better cumulative GPA (3.7-3.9ish) And, an MCAT score > 30 is needed to get your application through to human eyes. If you want to be a real competitive applicant, you need a 3.75+ GPA and a 34+ MCAT. And, these are only the academics.... you'll need research experience, leadership experience, many clinical shadowing and volunteer hours, a stellar personal statement, an incredible interview (if you get to that point) and 3+ phenomenal letters of recommendation, 1 of which should be from an M.D.

Right now close to 60,000 students apply to medical school each year for roughly 18,000 seats across the country. As an individual applicant you have to realize that in general, you have < 1% chance of acceptance at other state's public institutions, so you are actually competing for one of probably 500 seats realistically available to you (across several schools) if you are a great applicant. Each medical school typically receives 5,000-6,000 applicants for 80-120 seats.

I think its awesome that you are considering medicine! Go for it!

[Edited on November 20, 2007 at 7:53 PM. Reason : spelling mistake]

11/20/2007 7:51:52 PM

Quote :

"If you want to be a real competitive applicant, you need a 3.75+ GPA and a 34+ MCAT. And, these are only the academics.... you'll need research experience, leadership experience, many clinical shadowing and volunteer hours, a stellar personal statement, an incredible interview (if you get to that point) and 3+ phenomenal letters of recommendation, 1 of which should be from an M.D."

If you define "real competitive" as "absolutely perfect," then the above is true.

The vast majority of applicants (including those accepted) do not fit all of the above criteria.

11/20/2007 8:26:14 PM

Quote :

" The vast majority of applicants (including those accepted) do not fit all of the above criteria. "

In my previous post, I'm just repeating what was published in this year's Medical School Admissions Requirements (MSAR) by the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) - Its got chapters full of statistics and data charts with all this info in it. Roughly 2/3 of the schools info page lists a 3.7+ GPA as their "average accepted applicant."

In fact, I went ahead and looked at UNC's Admissions website and it seems they are almost exactly in line with my previous post:

Pasted From their Website (http://www.med.unc.edu/admit/faq.htm)
Q: What is the grade-point average (GPA) of accepted applicants for the current class?
Three categories of GPA are reported: the average GPA in science and mathematics courses was 3.65. The GPA in all other courses, and total GPA was 3.71.


This has really changed drastically over the past 2-3 years. I remember looking at their site when I first considered medical school and those numbers were in the 3.55 range. And, UNC is not even the most competitive school.

11/21/2007 12:14:33 AM

The most recent data I could find in a quick search of the literature:

Quote :

"Students entering in 2004 had a mean premedical grade point average of 3.62 (range, 3.00-3.83 among individual schools), compared with 3.46 in 1994-1995 (range, 3.11-3.75). In 2004, the mean Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores for the entering class were 10.3 (Biological Sciences), 9.9 (Physical Sciences), and 9.7 (Verbal Reasoning).9(p32) For the 1994 entering class, mean MCAT scores were 9.7 (Biological Sciences), 9.4 (Physical Sciences), and 9.4 (Verbal Reasoning)."

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/9/1068

This is from two years ago (and I sincerely doubt that those numbers have changed drastically over the past two years).

[Edited on November 21, 2007 at 12:54 AM. Reason : ]

11/21/2007 12:53:27 AM

med students are actually disappointingly retarded

11/21/2007 1:03:23 AM

p.s. everyone in this thread listen to what DaveOT has to say

he actually knows what he's talking about

11/21/2007 4:24:49 AM

Your probably right DaveOT-- I doubt the publication I quoted that information from by the AAMC published this year based on last years applicants is accurate. Its much more likely those statistics from JAMA that are 3+ years old give a more accurate picture.

Since the point of this thread was to help our fellow students, not talk about how "smart or dumb" medical school applicants are.... If anyone has any questions or wants to talk to another pre-med who's starting the application process this cycle, I'm happy to chat =) You can PM me, facebook, or ncsu email me.

[Edited on November 21, 2007 at 7:40 AM. Reason : Add Info]

11/21/2007 7:37:04 AM

2007 data from the AAMC for matriculating medical students:

Mean GPA: 3.65, a whopping 0.03 points higher than the figure I quoted above.

MCAT: 9.9/10.3/10.6, for a combined mean of less than 1 point off from the figure I quoted above.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/2007mcatgpa.htm

11/21/2007 10:50:46 AM

I am a first year MD student and was a finance major at state. I was accepted to 2 schools. I am a white male with below average grades and my MCAT scores were only a little better than average. Don't listen to the pre-med advisors at state either. Every school where I interviews said they thought the pre-med/dent advisors at State were not up to par. The only sciences I took were the 8 listed above and I would recommend you do the same. However, I would suggest possibly looking at community colleges for some of the courses if they would save you any money b/c it really doesn't matter where you take them. I don't understand why UNC-CH is suggesting biochem b/c you're just going to get it again when you are an M1. Make sure you apply to the right schools though. The first time I applied I didn't know what the hell I was doing and just applied to a few. The second time I applied to more and was successful in getting many interviews and a couple acceptances. Apply to as many as you can, even out of state public schools.

[

[Edited on November 21, 2007 at 12:46 PM. Reason : a]

11/21/2007 12:42:25 PM

History and journalism degree? Why? I guess that was a interest of yours and you decided to major in it....then you get the degree and find out there are no jobs in the area and you need another degree? What a waste of 4 years, should of majored in something you could find a job in and not just an "interest"

11/21/2007 12:43:21 PM

^Your making alot of assumptions there bud. It has nothing to do with finding a job, Im at work as we speak.
Also, I wouldnt call my last four years a waste either, it was all well worth my time, and I had a hell of alot of fun doing it.
I've decided to change fields, thats all. Happens all the time. As if it were any of your buisness anyway.

11/21/2007 1:45:37 PM

Quote :

"The only sciences I took were the 8 listed above and I would recommend you do the same. However, I would suggest possibly looking at community colleges for some of the courses if they would save you any money b/c it really doesn't matter where you take them. I don't understand why UNC-CH is suggesting biochem b/c you're just going to get it again when you are an M1."

For most places, yes, the standard courses are fine. Just be sure to check the requirements for individual schools--several do require biochem, some want genetics, etc.

Quote :

"The second time I applied to more and was successful in getting many interviews and a couple acceptances. Apply to as many as you can, even out of state public schools."

Good advice. Apply to some schools you think should be locks, a couple that are reaches, and then concentrate on the ones in the middle that you think you have a decent shot at.

Getting in means you're able to convince an admissions committee of a few things:

1) you'll make a good physician. This is very difficult for them to quantify.
2) you can handle the coursework--this is where grades and MCAT scores come in
3) you understand the commitment that being a physician entails--can be demonstrated with shadowing, volunteer work, clinical experiences.
4) you actually want to attend their particular school.

The first one is by far the most important.

11/21/2007 3:10:14 PM

there is a lot of good information in this thread.

11/21/2007 5:45:06 PM

I'm a first year md student at MUSC in Charleston. DaveOT has said a lot of good things, but just to reiterate - definitely check out individual schools' requirements. (The SC schools have very different requirements ... MUSC just requires a bacc degree and MCAT scores, no specific classes.)

A lot of my friends went the post-bach route to prepare for the MCAT before coming to MUSC, and not having a traditional science major hasn't hindered them in any way. (Actually, our class president was a Journalism major.) You absolutely don't need advanced biochem or anatomy to handle med school classes, so I'd just focus on excelling in the core pre-req classes for your schools of interest and the MCAT.

Also, I agree with breakneck4 about the pre-med advisors at NCSU. The pre-med office really frustrated and discouraged me, and if you are only looking at out-of-state schools, I wouldn't even bother with using them. (Basically, they said that if I wasn't a member of the pre-med club, I didn't have a chance of getting in, among other things.) It's neccessary for those applying to NC schools, but otherwise, you can handle the process on your own. Of course, they kept me on their mailing list and when I emailed them asking to be removed because I had been accepted to schools, they wanted to know all about my numbers, where I applied, etc. for me to be added to their "Wall of Fame." But I would never take their advice as the end-all-be-all of the application process.

11/22/2007 7:17:15 PM

From what I understand in this thread, med schools mainly care about grades and MCAT scores? Is there more to it than that, any preference for extracurriculars/experience etc. Are letter of references needed like vet school?

11/22/2007 7:22:25 PM

Quote :

"med schools mainly care about grades and MCAT scores? Is there more to it than that, any preference for extracurriculars/experience etc."

Grades and MCAT scores are important, but they're not the whole picture. A well-rounded applicant (clinical experience, volunteering, etc.) can offset having less-than-stellar numbers.

Quote :

"Are letter of references needed like vet school?"

Yes, you will need ~3 letters of recommendation.

11/23/2007 9:18:25 AM

Quote :

"Of course, they kept me on their mailing list and when I emailed them asking to be removed because I had been accepted to schools, they wanted to know all about my numbers, where I applied, etc. for me to be added to their "Wall of Fame.""

Are you serious? I would never give them any of that info. I am most certainly not a product of any of their help. If anything, had I listened to them, I would have given up freshman year. I used a woman from Furman that just happened to be teaching one of the Kaplan MCAT review science courses as my "pre-med services." I'd rather go on her "Wall of Fame." Also, I was only in pre-med club for a semester and didn't participate at all. I don't even remember if I paid dues or not. So, in my opinion, I don't think any of this shit matters at all. Just get out and do things on your own. I volunteered in the ER and with special olympics, worked in an orthopaedic operating room for over a year, and did a little research. Those experiences are >>>>> Pre-Med club.

[Edited on November 23, 2007 at 3:27 PM. Reason : a]

11/23/2007 3:26:19 PM

Quote :

"However, I would suggest possibly looking at community colleges for some of the courses if they would save you any money b/c it really doesn't matter where you take them."

Absolutely false. To a point, it doesn't matter where you take the courses as long as you're at an established 4 year university. Medical schools frown upon REQUIRED classes taken at community colleges. History, psychology, etc...probably fine if you want to save money, but you should take your core classes from a 4 year insitution. If you want to save money, take summer classes at state or unc rather than Duke.


Also want to say that grades and MCAT scores are important for getting schools to look at your application, but if you are lucky enough to get an interview they kind of throw that stuff out depending on how you interview. I know a lot of people with above average GPA/MCATs that dont have anything to talk about outside of school...and are currently not in medical school. I also know people...like myself...with below average test scores who are in medical school because we had a lot to talk about in the interviews.


One more thing....I think you have to go through the Pre-med program here at state now if you want to apply to certian schools, but the director (Anita Flick?) is full of shit and its a waste of time. Check with the schools you are applying to so you can see if it is required before you waste your time. I didnt use it but I also had to cancel a few applications because of it.

The advantage of the program is that you have to get your stuff in order early and they make sure you have everything in line. The disadvantage is that you have to go beyond what most schools require and some of the deadlines suck. I wouldn't have gotten 2 really good recommendations if I had gone through the program because I took the classes after their deadline.

I guess you should use it, but someone should complain to the school that the application program sucks.

11/25/2007 2:39:11 PM

i would like to second the comments about NCSU's premed services being less than helpful. of course i was using this when there was no one with any inkling of a medical education running it, but from what i hear things aren't much better with an MD/PhD in charge. sure they coallated a package to send to schools for me, but i pretty much had to hold their hand every step of the way, and they still fucked up a couple of my apps. you can probably do a better job on your own if you do enough research.

as far as course prereqs, those definitely vary from school to school and you should make sure you have the right ones for the places you apply to - otherwise they will gladly accept your check for $texas for the secondary app, and immediately send you a rejection for not having their prepreqs.

11/25/2007 3:15:14 PM

Quote :

"Absolutely false. "

I believe the "absolutely" part of your above statement is a little extreme. I took two sciences at a community college and would consider my outcome successful.

11/25/2007 10:22:50 PM

I'm not going to argue semantics here but the statement "really doesnt matter" was a little extreme too.

I'm sure you are doing just fine, but to suggest that taking your core classes at a community college "really doesnt matter" is false. I'm willing to bet that you did very well in the other required classes and your major....as well as have a good resume... and you had a really good excuse for taking the classes at a community college instead of a 4 year institution.

I am 100 percent positive that it matters where you take the classes. Sure, you can do things to offset taking them from a lesser institution, but my point stands.

The reason I posted what I did is because I read something on our website about it. Something along the lines of ...."required science classes should not be taken at community colleges because the degree of difficulty of those courses varies too much at those institutions. If community college credit must be used, higher level science courses in the same subjects should be taken at 4 year institutions" .....

There are exceptions to every rule, but its not recommended procedure...thats all I'm saying.



[Edited on November 26, 2007 at 7:31 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2007 7:26:12 PM

Just to give an idea, I'm an M1 at WVU and had average stats, 30 MCAT with 10's across the board, 3.65 GPA in Chemical Engineering, but I had TONS of clinical experience along with research/volunteer stuff and I think that's what got me in. It's so competitive these days that you have to distinguish yourself beyond just awesome academic stats. Get some clinical experience with emphasis on patient interaction, then get a recommendation from someone you worked with (preferably an MD) who can speak to your potential for becoming a good physician.

Also, biochem is only required at a couple schools, but I would recommend taking it if you have time. It's a semi-decent gauge to see if you get the material. Just imagine that course stuffed into about a 3-6 week time period.

[Edited on November 27, 2007 at 12:15 AM. Reason : .]

11/27/2007 12:11:47 AM