Bush ally Australian Prime Minister John Howard soundly defeated, Parliament to be controlled by Labor party. New PM ran on platform against involvement in Iraq War and also addressing global warming.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071124/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_election

11/24/2007 9:59:55 AM

more like a turn to the right. as in the right thing.

11/24/2007 10:03:44 AM

Agreed. They do plan to stay in Afghanistan though, which I agree with.

11/24/2007 10:08:07 AM

yeah, i agree with that too...since that is where the people responsible for attacking the US in 9/11 are in habitant. Makes no sense to attack a country that had 0 to do with terrorism.

plus pulling out of Afghanistan now would really be bad. As a people they would have (lack of a better word) defeated 2 super powers. (USSR and now USA) and they're just a small tribal people. What would the United States military power reputation be like after that.

11/24/2007 10:16:59 AM

haha, they want to stay in afghanistan? for what?
of course it for the pipeline.

11/24/2007 11:16:03 AM

considering a legitimate threat is in Afghanistan...or so we're told. But Iraq? really?

11/24/2007 11:45:26 AM

You people are bitching now, just wait until we drop about 100 tomahawks across IRan in the next few months.

11/24/2007 1:53:10 PM

I'm not bitching about Afghan. I'm bitching about Iraq. But now that the US already invaded Iraq and destroyed any hope for it to be a nation ever again, its too late to pull out.

11/24/2007 1:57:25 PM

Looks like the poodle-down-under is going to lose his own parliament seat too... thats pretty unprecedented.

11/24/2007 2:18:15 PM

Lafta, where is this pipeline?

11/24/2007 2:31:46 PM

good for australians.

just hope americans would also pull the country to the right* in the next elections.



* right direction, not The Right.

11/24/2007 2:57:40 PM

For anyone who's savvy in Aussie politics, what exactly does this mean for the future of their country? What are some of the local changes that will come about?

11/24/2007 3:20:09 PM

I'm not terribly familiar with Australian politics, but it probably means that any future Mad Max films will feature hybrids.

11/24/2007 3:24:10 PM

So what? France and Germany have taken a turn toward closer relations with the United States--and the conservative Bush administration. Did you miss that?

11/24/2007 4:47:24 PM

That's only because they were scared of our conservative international policy of invading any country that we feel like.

11/24/2007 6:51:00 PM

^^They didn't vote for Merkel or Sarkozy for their stances toward the United States.

11/24/2007 6:52:19 PM

from what i understand about France and Germany, the right wingers rode in on a wave of anti-immigrant sentiment, DESPITE the overwhelming opposition to US Foriegn Policy.

11/24/2007 6:59:49 PM

Quote :

"I'm bitching about Iraq. But now that the US already invaded Iraq and destroyed any hope for it to be a nation ever again,"

ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaahha
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
ahahaahahhahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhaahahahahhaahahahahahahahhahahaha

you're an idiot

11/25/2007 7:22:17 PM

Here's a 12-page running results thread on it for those interested.
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=65425.0

Also, per Australians I've talked to, Iraq was not a big election issue at all. The election was more based on domestic issues.

Me:

Quote :

"The U.S. news stories I saw on this yesterday had headlines something like this: "Howard, Iraq War ally, calls Australia elections" So regardless of what actually happens, if Howard loses, it'll probably be interpreted as "Australia rejects Iraq War". Not that you'd care, just don't be surprised in a month if you come upon a U.S. story that harps on it after Howard loses."

Australian:

Quote :

"Put it this way, if it's played as a rejection of the Iraq War... they'd be wrong. Australia hasn't had a foreign policy election since 1966 - that was over Vietnam. The Iraq War is incredibly unpopular, and Kevin Rudd has been consistently against it... but the issue itself isn't enough. "

I saw no one on here said this, but Prime Minister John Howard himself lost his seat that he held in Parliament to the other party. Very rare event in parliamentary politics.

[Edited on November 25, 2007 at 7:45 PM. Reason : /]

11/25/2007 7:38:58 PM

^^^^

Quote :

"They didn't vote for against Merkel or Sarkozy for their stances toward the United States."

See how that works?

Quote :

"Speaking through a translator to lawmakers gathered in the chamber of the House of Representatives for a Joint Meeting of Congress, Sarkozy highlighted France's long friendship with the United States. On this U.S. visit, his words — as well as his demeanor — contrasted sharply with the style of his predecessor, Jacques Chirac, who publicly clashed with Bush over Iraq. The feeling was mutual."

Quote :

"'I want to tell you that whenever an American soldier falls somewhere in the world, I think of what the American army did for France,' he said. 'I think of them, and I am sad, as one is sad to lose a member of one's family.'"

Quote :

"Sarkozy, an energetic 52-year-old conservative, has wasted no time in his bid to modernize France, in part by trying to inject an American-style work ethic. As a sign of his pro-American tendencies, he took a summer vacation in the United States, causing a stir back home [emphasis added]."

Quote :

"For his part, Sarkozy didn't sidestep the fact that Bush and the war in Iraq remain unpopular in his country. 'I also came to say that one can be a friend of America, and yet win elections in France,' he joked during his toast at a White House dinner where the two leaders dined on lobster bisque and lamb. That’s not something Bush would have heard from Chirac. Sarkozy — known in France as 'Sarko the American' — described the U.S.-French relationship as 'simple,' yet 'always beautiful.'"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21668318/

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rlt2GE4EYo4

The conservative Sarko l'Américain sure as hell sounds like a big fan of America to me.

Quote :

"A physicist by training, Merkel can sometimes seem dull. She has won plaudits not by bonhomie but by a quiet, no-frills stress on competence. Instinctively biased toward free markets and the cause of liberty—growing up in communist East Germany will do that for you—she has already nudged German foreign policy back toward its traditional closeness to Washington [emphasis added]. Now she has to tackle the challenges that still face the world's third largest economy."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1187212,00.html

Quote :

"As a female politician from a centre right party, and a scientist, Merkel has been compared by many in the English language press as well as the German press to former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Some have referred to her as 'Iron Lady', 'Iron Girl' and even 'The Iron Frau' (alluding to Thatcher, whose nickname was 'The Iron Lady' -- Thatcher has an advanced degree in chemistry). Political commentators have debated the precise extent to which their agendas are similar."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel

Merkel is a member of the "centre right party" and she supports free markets, liberty, and closeness to America. Hmm--she sounds like another big fan of America and conservatism to me.

[Edited on November 26, 2007 at 2:30 AM. Reason : .]

11/26/2007 2:27:42 AM

Ultimately all politics is local. It appears that Howard's case was no exception.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/yoursay/index.php/theaustralian/comments/rudd_captures_the_mood_for_change/

From what I gather in the Australian press, Howard got bounced for two reasons: failure to keep his promises on interest rates and a general desire for change (he's been there for four terms after all). If you notice in the column, Iraq is mentioned only after issues such as gun control and GST. He made decision after decision that supposedly lost him a voter here or there until finally, after so many terms, he just couldn't rally enough votes. He did after all leave with a 51% approval rating.

As for Rudd being some sort of radical leftist, don't hold your breath. At least from an economic standpoint, it appears that he'll maintain the previous administration's policies.

11/26/2007 2:55:23 AM

^^ Don't derail this thread, this is about Australia.


And what I gathered from a lot of people I know from Australia is that they approve of Howard's economic policies but 1) he's been there forever and they're sick of him and 2) he makes australia seem like a tool.

There were huge protests last time Bush went to Australia and a lot of people were arrested. It also made huge news there that Bush didn't even know Howard's name and that he referred to the Australian army as the Austrian army and referred to APEC as OPEC several times.

The australian media can be pretty mean from what I gather and they just skewered Howard for stuff like this nonstop the past few years.

11/26/2007 8:02:22 AM

Quote :

"ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhaahha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahaahahhahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhaahahahahhaahahahahahahahhahahaha you're an idiot"

the idiot is you. Going around calling people idiot and laughing makes you look like a half-whit.

11/26/2007 8:33:22 AM

take your bickering to this thread plz

/message_topic.aspx?topic=500208&page=4#10962817

[Edited on November 26, 2007 at 9:20 AM. Reason : btw, it's half-wit]

11/26/2007 9:20:13 AM

hooknosesaw, what does your post have to do with this thread?

11/26/2007 9:23:56 AM

^ You're an idiot.

11/26/2007 11:42:16 AM

Alliances In Ruins?

Quote :

"When the Democratic presidential candidates pause from beating Hillary with a stick, they join in unison to pronounce the Democratic pieties, chief among which is that George Bush has left our alliances in ruins. As Clinton puts it, we have 'alienated our friends,' must 'rebuild our alliances' and 'restore our standing in the world.' That's mild. The others describe Bush as having a scorched-earth foreign policy that has left us reviled and isolated in the world. Like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, who insist that nothing of significance has changed in Iraq, the Democrats are living in what Bob Woodward would call a state of denial. Do they not notice anything? France has a new president who is breaking not just with the anti-Americanism of the Chirac era but also with 50 years of Fifth Republic orthodoxy that defined French greatness as operating in counterpoise to America. Nicolas Sarkozy's trip last week to the United States was marked by a highly successful White House visit and a rousing speech to Congress in which he not only called America 'the greatest nation in the world' (how many leaders of any country say that about another?) but also pledged solidarity with the United States on Afghanistan, Iran, Lebanon, the Middle East and nuclear nonproliferation. This just a few months after he sent his foreign minister to Iraq to signal an openness to cooperation and an end to Chirac's reflexive obstructionism [emphasis added]. That's France. In Germany, Gerhard Schroeder is long gone, voted out of office and into a cozy retirement as Putin's concubine at Gazprom. His successor is the decidedly pro-American Angela Merkel, who concluded an unusually warm visit with Bush this week. All this, beyond the ken of Democrats, is duly noted by new British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who in an interview with Sky News on Sunday remarked on 'the great change that is taking place,' namely 'that France and Germany and the European Union are also moving more closely with America' [emphasis added]. As for our other traditional alliances, relations with Australia are very close, and Canada has shown remarkable steadfastness in taking disproportionate casualties in supporting the NATO mission in Afghanistan. Eastern European nations, traditionally friendly, are taking considerable risks on behalf of their U.S. alliance -- for example, cooperating with us on missile defense in the face of enormous Russian pressure. And ties with Japan have never been stronger, with Tokyo increasingly undertaking military and quasi-military obligations that it had forsworn for the past half-century. So much for the disarray of our alliances. The critics will say that all this is simply attributable to the rise of Russia and China causing old allies to turn back to us out of need. So? I would even add that the looming prospect of a nuclear Iran has caused Arab states -- Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, even Libya -- to rally to us. All true. And it makes the point that the Bush critics have missed for years -- that the strength of alliances is heavily dependent on the objective balance of international forces and has very little to do with the syntax of the U.S. president or the disdain in which he might be held by a country's cultural elites. It's classic balance-of-power theory: Weaker nations turn to the great outside power to help them balance a rising regional threat. Allies are not sentimental about their associations. It is not a matter of affection but of need -- and of the great power's ability to deliver. What's changed in the past year? Bush's dress and diction remain the same. But he did change generals -- and counterinsurgency strategy -- in Iraq. As a result, Iraq has gone from an apparently lost cause to a winnable one. The rise of external threats to our allies has concentrated their minds on the need for the American connection. The revival of American fortunes in Iraq -- and the diminished prospect of an American rout -- have significantly increased the value of such a connection. This is particularly true among our moderate Arab allies who see us as their ultimate protection against an Iran-Syria-Hezbollah-Hamas axis that openly threatens them all. It's always uncomfortable for a small power to rely on a hegemon. But a hegemon on the run is even worse. Alliances are always shifting. But one thing we can say with certainty: The event that will have more effect than any other on the strength of our alliances worldwide is not another Karen Hughes outreach to the Muslim world, not an ostentatious embrace of Kyoto or even the most abject embrace of internationalism from the podium of the United Nations. It is success or failure in Iraq."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/15/AR2007111502032.html

12/2/2007 5:46:16 AM

let's talk about France in a thread about Australia. w00t

And you know full well that if Germany and France were to join in the war in Iraq that those governments would be thrown out in a heartbeat.

[Edited on December 2, 2007 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2007 2:07:10 PM

I found this quote interesting:
"Over the last year, from the third quarter of 2006 to the third quarter of 2007, the U.S. economy has grown by 5.3% (same as the 10-year average), or more than $700 billion in current dollars, which is almost the equivalent of adding the entire national economy of Australia ($755b) to the U.S. economy. And if the economy were to grow annually at the same rate as the second quarter (6.6%), it would be like adding more than the entire economy of Mexico to the U.S. economy, and almost like adding the entire Russian economy to the U.S."
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/

12/2/2007 2:39:56 PM

^ Number of Americans > Number of Australians.

12/3/2007 3:08:52 PM

^ yes, thank you for stating the obvious.

12/3/2007 4:06:13 PM

Obvious statement for an obvious realization.

12/3/2007 6:15:58 PM

^^the national debt grow by 1Mil $ a minute

12/3/2007 7:08:52 PM

Not quite

The projected deficit for FY 2007 is $158 Billion, which is a 5-year low and substantially lower than historical rates as a percentage of GDP.

12/3/2007 7:31:42 PM

That's right! So lets congratulate the U.S. government for having a win-loss record this year of 4-12 instead of 2-14! They only lost $15000 at the casino, not $20000.

[Edited on December 3, 2007 at 9:49 PM. Reason : .]

12/3/2007 9:47:05 PM

Maybe you missed this part:

Quote :

"substantially lower than historical rates as a percentage of GDP."

Thats not to say that a deficit is ever a good thing, but our deficit has been shrinking for years and is hardly out of control right now.

12/3/2007 11:39:30 PM