http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/27/costello.drug.use/index.html

I give Obama credit that he came and was honest about having tried drugs when he was younger. Heaven forbid we have an honest candidate who admits his shit doesn't stink and did not have any indiscretions as a teenager/college kid. We all know about Bill's "but did not inhale" line, George W did coke, cheney arrested for 2 DUI's. All to often we have candidates preaching hell and brimstone about the harms of drugs while supporting an increase on the budge for the War on Drugs; while hypocritically they were involved in the use of illegal substances when younger. I think this gives Obama some relation to the avg American; and it would be stupid for him to be written off b.c of his occasional bong rips. This was probably a good political move also b.c as much digging as other candidates do to uncover skeletons at least his prior "drug use" is in the open preventing him from being blind-sided during some debate.

Quote :

"45 percent of Americans would be less likely to support a candidate for president who had used drugs."

I wonder which of this 45% has ever hit their wives, driven drunk, cheated on their taxes, hired an illegal immigrant for some labor, hyped up an insurance claim, etc

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 11:19 AM. Reason : a]

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 11:23 AM. Reason : a]

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 11:24 AM. Reason : a]

11/29/2007 11:17:12 AM

Quote :

"I give Obama credit that he came and was honest about having tried drugs when he was younger."

I also give him credit for coming out about his past drug use himself, instead of waiting few days and having whatever blackmailer release that information...smart move politically to bring it out himself...its like the end of 8 Mile when Eminem gets all his dirty laundry out in the open himself so nobody else can demean him

11/29/2007 11:21:19 AM

Quote :

"Heaven for a bid we have an honest candidate"

I stopped reading right here

11/29/2007 11:21:23 AM

i heard this like a while back but am just hearing about it now...over thanksgiving my stepdad was like do you think that helps him or hurts him and i was like i think its pretty much not an issue...the whole time i was like i coulda swore i heard about this back in like august or july

11/29/2007 11:25:00 AM

I think he wrote it in a book he put out years ago, so it's been known for awhile.

11/29/2007 11:38:40 AM

Except for the fact that he is a dirty hypocrite. Obama uses drugs, manages not to end up with the legal consequences that so many other victims of the War on Drugs end up with, and uses his rationale of prior drug use to push the current regime.

He's plenty happy punishing people for "mistakes" he never received consequences for. That's almost worse.

11/29/2007 11:43:55 AM

wtf do you want him to do?

11/29/2007 11:48:27 AM

Quote :

"I wonder which of this 45% has ever hit their wives, driven drunk, cheated on their taxes, hired an illegal immigrant for some labor, hyped up an insurance claim, etc"

uummm..... which one of those doesn't belong in that list.
OH YEAH - "hit their wives"

11/29/2007 11:49:51 AM

Quote :

"Obama uses drugs, manages not to end up with the legal consequences that so many other victims of the War on Drugs end up with, and uses his rationale of prior drug use to push the current regime. He's plenty happy punishing people for "mistakes" he never received consequences for. That's almost worse."

Who has Obama punished??? Did Obama work for the DEA, was on the senate drug comittee, or was a judge sentencing drug violators???

Bush is more the hypocrite since he preaches Christian Values and increased the funds to fight the war on drugs; yet did blow in college and probably smoked pot also.

This kinda reminds me of being on the IFC council. We all talk about the "importance" of dry rush and how "bad hazing is. Yet two of the frats were suspended the next semester for hazing; and the VP of recruitment's (who is in charge of enforcing dry rush) fraternity threw one of the biggest parties at the beginning of the semester. This is why i hate politics.

Quote :

""hit their wives""

is this legal now agentlion

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 11:56 AM. Reason : a]

11/29/2007 11:51:26 AM

how about another statistic probably like 90% of americans have tried drugs in their life.

who cares, we're only human.

11/29/2007 11:55:55 AM

Quote :

"Who has Obama punished??? Did Obama work for the DEA, was on the senate drug comittee, or was a judge sentencing drug violators???"

Der, remind me again - the Senate does what now? Which powers do they have?

Obama has spoken out in favor of and voted for the current legal framework. A framework which, by his own logic he should have went to prison for.

So, what, Obama is just better than the unfortunate folks who get thrown in prison, because he had the common sense to figure out that drugs are bad and the good fortune to do so before the consequences set in? Enlighten me to why this sense of exceptionalism is somehow a praiseworthy thing.

11/29/2007 11:59:30 AM

i dont think he was planning on running for president when he was doing the drugs...i dont get why someone couldnt have once did drugs and now be for the current framework

11/29/2007 12:06:41 PM

So why is it that Obama gets to fuck up and not be punished, but advocate harsh punishment for people doing exactly the same thing he did? Why is he so special?

11/29/2007 12:07:40 PM

Quote :

"Enlighten me to why this sense of exceptionalism is somehow a praiseworthy thing. "

ummm, b/c he is telling the truth maybe?

Call me crazy, but imho honesty to the people is a good trait for our president to have.

Quote :

"So why is it that Obama gets to fuck up and not be punished"

as with everything else, he didn't get caught...not to mention, links to his advocating such harsh punishment would be helpful to your cause.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:12 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2007 12:11:14 PM

^^why wouldnt he not be punished is what i'm asking...you are making it like someone who once did drugs cant be antidrug

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:13 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2007 12:12:45 PM

Quote :

"ummm, b/c he is telling the truth maybe? Call me crazy, but imho honesty to the people is a good trait for our president to have."

Exceptionalism. The word is exceptionalism. It's all well and great that Obama's telling the truth to us, but why should Obama get to be praised when he advocates slamming people doing the same thing he admits to doing into federal "pound me in the ass" prison? What makes Obama so different?

Quote :

"as with everything else, he didn't get caught...not to mention, links to his advocating such harsh punishment would be helpful to your cause."

So, basically it's okay to break the law... as long as you don't get caught. Am I following correctly? Obama is perfectly cool advocating the harsh punishment of people who did exactly what he did... because he didn't get caught.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:14 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2007 12:13:14 PM

dude whoopty fucking do...he did drugs back in the day and now doesnt, and advocates for the same framework...i dont see the problem...i dont see how he is "special"


i guess you could say he is different in that he actually admitted to using drugs, rather than lie

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:15 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2007 12:14:29 PM

Quote :

"dude whoopty fucking do...he did drugs back in the day and now doesnt, and advocates for the same framework...i dont see the problem...i dont see how he is "special""

So did Obama deserve to go to jail for his crime? Or does he prove that he's "better" than all those other people he's indirectly helped send to prison, because he stopped using before he got caught?

Again, enlighten me.

11/29/2007 12:15:49 PM

if they find him guilty of something then yeah he deserves to go to jail...let me know when that happens

11/29/2007 12:16:46 PM

He pretty much admitted to committing a crime - but he's all full of the audacity of hope or some bullshit, and he spouts the correct party line, so he's cool, right? He shouldn't have gotten sent to jail if he'd had the misfortune of getting caught like so many other people, right?

Again, it's not wrong unless you get caught, right?

11/29/2007 12:18:16 PM

i'm not really thinking about it like that....you seem to have some crazy grudge like you got busted with drugs and are mad that he didnt and admitted to it...idk- this is how i think about it:

he did drugs in college...got out of college and built a career all the way up to senator....now people like drchaos think he should be punished for something that happened over 2 decades ago

doesnt sound too reasonable


i just can not understand why if he likes the current framework after having once used drugs that automatically makes him special or different? he is not getting special treatment...idk i hope i'm not the only one struggling with this one

11/29/2007 12:22:20 PM

I don't do drugs, and I've certainly never gotten busted for it. But rank hypocrisy chaps my ass. Apparently though, if someone blows enough smoke about optimism up your ass, all the hypocrisy in the world doesn't matter.

Obama pretty much gives an example of how he did drugs, realized they were an error, quit, and made something of his life. But instead of granting other people that chance, he actively advocates fucking up anyone's life who has the misfortune of getting caught. No Senate run for you, stoner - you're going directly to jail, do not pass Go, do not collect $200...

But again. Apparently, since Obama was lucky enough not to get caught, that makes him better than everyone else he'd be plenty happy to see rot in prison...

11/29/2007 12:25:40 PM

Quote :

"Der, remind me again - the Senate does what now? Which powers do they have? "

There is a thing called voting; and what you are stating is like saying every member of congress is responsible
for the Iraq resolution even the ones that voted against it. If this is your position please give evidence
where Obama voted in favor of increased drug laws, more funding for the DEA, outspoken critic in the war on drugs, etc

You obviously have a very simple view of how congress works. Does this mean every democrat
in congress can also get a pat on the back for Bush's tax cuts too??

Quote :

"Obama get to be praised when he advocates slamming people doing the same thing he admits to doing into federal "pound me in the ass" prison? What makes Obama so different?"

We have some shitty drug laws but unless he was dealing or got caught with a 1/4 lb or something
he would not be going to prison for possession of marijuana. At worst if caught in NC
currently with a joint or something you pay the fine and do a little community service or go to the 9096 drug class.

Quote :

"Am I following correctly? Obama is perfectly cool advocating the harsh punishment of people who did exactly what he did... because he didn't get caught. "

We are not talking about Fred Thompson; exactly when has Obama advocated for harsher drug laws??
I'd be much happier if your logic regarding this were applied b.c then we could impeach Cheney b.c
he got caught drinking and driving.

in terms of risky behaviour and negative possible consequences

smoking a bowl and eating chettoes jamming to jimi hendrix <<< Drinking and Driving

DrSteveChaos is like the liberal minded hooksaw.
We just need to ignore this kid. He provides no evidence to back his assertions of Obama's voting history or speeches regarding US drug policy; nor does he try to refute any counterpoints given by other users. Again I will ask how is Obama any more hypocritical then George W. Granted W did not publicly admit doing cocaine but this in my mind is worse given he tries to portray the image of traditional christian values and has continuously advocated even expanding the "war on drugs"

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:41 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:47 PM. Reason : thx hksaw]

11/29/2007 12:31:35 PM

^

Quote :

"Their [sic] is a thing called voting. . . ."

Keep my name out of your metaphorical mouth.

11/29/2007 12:42:27 PM

Quote :

"Their is a thing called voting; and what you are stating is like saying every member of congress is responsible for the Iraq resolution even the ones that voted against it. If this is your position please give evidence where Obama voted in favor of increased drug laws, more funding for the DEA, outspoken critic in the war on drugs, etc"

Are you actually illiterate? The issue is not if he's responsible for the drug laws if he voted against them, the issue is that he's voted in favor of the current legal regime. Which makes him perfectly culpable, just like every representative who voted for the Iraq War resolution is culpable. For. Catch that word, it's pretty important.

And if you think he hasn't spoken out in favor of the current crop of drug laws, well, think again.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/8/28/222237/942

Or just google "Obama" and "War on Drugs" if you're feeling lazy.

Quote :

"We have some shitty drug laws but unless he was dealing or got caught with a 1/4 lb or something he would not be going to prison for possession of marijuana. At worst if caught in NC currently with a joint or something you pay the fine and do a little community service or go to the 9096 drug class."

Read over the FAFSA sometime and get back to me. Also, have a look at federal drug laws. Again, get back to me when you manage to do that.

Also, he admits to having done cocaine. Which, by my last reckoning, will land you some serious trouble with the law.

Quote :

"We are not talking about Fred Thompson; exactly when has Obama advocated for harsher drug laws??"

He has advocated for the current penalties. Isn't that harsh enough?

Quote :

"in terms of risky behaviour and negative possible consequences smoking a bowl and eating chettoes jamming to jimi hendrix <<< Drinking and Driving"

And you'll notice that I've never said someone smoking pot should go to prison. They're a threat to no one. But advocates of the current regime pretty much explicitly employ the contrary logic. Such as your main man, Senator "The rules don't apply to me" Obama.

Quote :

"DrSteveChaos is like the liberal minded hooksaw"

Eat a dick. You couldn't pull a logical argument out of your ass if your life depended on it.

Quote :

"We just need to ignore this kid. He provides no evidence to back his assertions of Obama's voting history or speeches regarding US drug policy; nor does he try to refute any counterpoints given by other users. Again I will ask how is Obama any more hypocritical then George W. Granted W did not publicly admit doing cocaine but this in my mind is worse given he tries to portray the image of traditional christian values and has continuously advocated even expanding the "war on drugs" "

This is rich. I've yet to see you haul out any support for your contentions, or bother to address any argument I've brought up - I have directly responded to individuals arguments. (Your failure to read and comprehend is not my failure to address.)

And if we must talk about it, then fine. Dubya is a horrible hypocrite - not really the point. The topic is Obama. Stick with me on this one.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:47 PM. Reason : More HUR idiocy]

11/29/2007 12:43:39 PM

so you expect him to relax the rules since hes used drugs before?

is this what he has to do to not be a hypocrite?

11/29/2007 12:45:59 PM

Quote :

"It's all well and great that Obama's telling the truth to us, but why should Obama get to be praised when he advocates slamming people doing the same thing he admits to doing into federal "pound me in the ass" prison? What makes Obama so different? "

people hardly ever do hard time in a federal prision for merely smoking weed, or just doing drugs period (multiple offences, maybe).

I'd still like to see links about his hardline stance on drug users.

11/29/2007 12:48:47 PM

Quote :

"so you expect him to relax the rules since hes used drugs before? is this what he has to do to not be a hypocrite?"

Let's be generous with the Senator. I think an explanation of why he is entitled to have a chance to turn his life around and other people are not would at be fair for the bare minimum.

11/29/2007 12:49:16 PM

other people do, especially if they're never caught.

still waiting on those links......

11/29/2007 12:50:50 PM

Quote :

"people hardly ever do hard time in a federal prision for merely smoking weed, or just doing drugs period (multiple offences, maybe). I'd still like to see links about his hardline stance on drug users."

People get time for "possession with intent to distribute" all the time. Not to mention they automatically forfeit federal student aid, etc. And pot isn't the only drug out there.

That notwithstanding, see my link above. Or, again, just google. I never said Obama supports a harsher regime - I said he supports the status quo. Which, again, isn't that harsh enough? And in light of his background, why do other people deserve to get punished for the same mistakes he didn't (and, obviously in your opinion, does not deserve to be) punished for?

11/29/2007 12:51:49 PM

Ah see most people I know who've been caught with stuff like that have done first-offender differment programs and had the crimes wiped from their record. Besides they or their parents paying for a moderately competent lawyer, they've all been pretty untouched other than being scared a bit.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:54 PM. Reason : ]

11/29/2007 12:52:54 PM

Quote :

"other people do, especially if they're never caught."

So, you deserve to get a second chance if you don't get caught? That's how our system should work? You get a second chance if you're lucky enough for the law not to find you?

Quote :

"still waiting on those links......"

My aren't we an impatient little motherfucker. Try reading up the thread before incessantly re-posting.

11/29/2007 12:53:23 PM

Quote :

"Ah see most people I know who've been caught with stuff like that have done first-offender differment programs and had the crimes wiped from their record."

Assuming you're some suburban kid whose parents can afford a lawyer. Try telling that to someone in the inner city.

11/29/2007 12:54:53 PM

Obama is basically saying "in the past, I made some bad decisions, and I experimented with drugs"

I believe somebody like Dr. Chaos might prefer him to say something like "in the past, I made some bad decisions, and I experimented with drugs. However I did community service and took drug recovery classes and I paid my debt to society"

11/29/2007 12:55:14 PM

^^ If by suburban you mean Lenoir street and Raleigh, then ok.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:56 PM. Reason : hey look at this cool edit post feature, now you don't need to double post!]

11/29/2007 12:55:45 PM

this whole second chance thing is strange to me....if thats his second chance what was his first?

11/29/2007 12:56:29 PM

i don't disagree about the war on drugs as we know it now to be a waste, but you cannot fault the man for telling the truth.

Quote :

"People get time for "possession with intent to distribute" all the time."

yup, but all it usually takes is a little knowledge of the law to avoid putting yourself in that situation if you're not intending to distribute.

Quote :

"So, you deserve to get a second chance if you don't get caught? That's how our system should work? You get a second chance if you're lucky enough for the law not to find you?"

absolutely not, but your making it sound like they lock you up and throw away the key if you get caught smoking a joint.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 12:59 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2007 12:57:49 PM

Quote :

"I believe somebody like Dr. Chaos might prefer him to say something like "in the past, I made some bad decisions, and I experimented with drugs. However I did community service and took drug recovery classes and I paid my debt to society"

Let's even try, "Hey, you know, drugs can ruin your life. I was lucky enough not to get caught, but other people aren't so lucky. Maybe we shouldn't ruin lives with our drug laws." Again, I'll be generous.

11/29/2007 12:57:58 PM

^yeah that too

11/29/2007 12:58:22 PM

Quote :

"he issue is that he's voted in favor of the current legal regime."

you lost me here.

Quote :

"He has advocated for the current penalties. Isn't that harsh enough?"

what do you expect him to do. Motion to repeal all drug laws and eliminate the DEA.
This would be political suicide. Maybe being a past drug user who then grew up to become a
successful senator, Obama as president will re-evaluate the current drug policy. The FAFSA
thing I agree is complete crap. Someone who got caught stealing $100 in clothes at the mall
or beating their girlfriend would still qualify for FAFSA assistance, but another person
caught smoking up would be fucked. What do you want Obama to do?? Rip up his
diploma and go work at McD's because that is what he'd be doing had he gotten caught.

Quote :

"have a look at federal drug laws. Again, get back to me when you manage to do that."

Why don't you show some fucking evidence. Someone caught w/ a gram of pot is not going to
be spending time in jail. Otherwise the penal system would be busting at the seams with
minor drug offenders.

Quote :

"Such as your main man, Senator "The rules don't apply to me" Obama."

I NEVER said Obama was my main man. That would be Ron Paul who advocates a complete
elmination of the war on drugs. This not, however, the main reason i support Paul.

Quote :

"Eat a dick. You couldn't pull a logical argument out of your ass if your life depended on it. "

Classical TreeTwista10 or hooksaw ad homiem technique

Quote :

"This is rich. I've yet to see you haul out any support for your contentions, or bother to address any argument I've brought up "

I believe my original post contained the link regarding the topic at discussion. You then
try to refute my opinion without offering any supporting evidence.

Sources of supporting evidence
HUR : 1
DrSteveChaos: 0

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 1:01 PM. Reason : a]

11/29/2007 1:00:15 PM

Quote :

"i don't disagree about the war on drugs as we know it now to be a waste, but you cannot fault the man for telling the truth."

I don't fault the man for telling the truth. I fault him for making an exception out of himself - nobody reasonably thinks that a man who turned his life around the way he did. But given this, it's reasonable to ask why he should be the exception to the rule - why shouldn't other people have the chance to turn their lives around?

Again, he actually is in a position to change things, and doesn't. So why should he get any praise for owning up to mistakes he's perfectly fine punishing others for?

11/29/2007 1:00:56 PM

Quote :

"Classical TreeTwista10 or hooksaw ad homiem technique"

how bout you classically shut the fuck up about me and try to make a point without saying "blah blah blah YOU ARE THE (insert adjective) EQUIVALENT OF HOOKSAW/TREETWISTA"

i mean seriously your arguments are already weak, and this is the kind of "support" you provide?

11/29/2007 1:06:46 PM

Quote :

"why shouldn't other people have the chance to turn their lives around? "

but they do....getting charged with a minor drug charge, hardly ruins your life like your making it out...

now if he said: "Yeah, I was the best one in my neighborhood at slingin rocks on the corner when I was a teen", then your points would be much more valid.

11/29/2007 1:08:43 PM

Quote :

"you lost me here."

Try something for me. Try reading what I posted. I've already posted a link, and if that's not sufficient, google is your friend.

Quote :

"what do you expect him to do. Motion to repeal all drug laws and eliminate the DEA. This would be political suicide. Maybe being a past drug user who then grew up to become a successful senator, Obama as president will re-evaluate the current drug policy. The FAFSA thing I agree is complete crap. Someone who got caught stealing $100 in clothes at the mall or beating their girlfriend would still qualify for FAFSA assistance, but another person caught smoking up would be fucked. However, what do you want Obama to do. Rip up his diploma and go work at McD's because that is what he'd be doing had he gotten caught."

No, I expect him to actually act like he has some goddamned principles. He has no intention of reviewing federal drug policy - again, read my link, or for God's sakes, just google. Whenever the Federal Student Aid bill comes up, Obama regularly has a chance to propose Amending. (Reps. Hinchley and Rorabacher do so in the House every year.) He doesn't. He whines about the political capital required to normalize crack cocaine and powder cocaine sentences. He expresses zero interest in changing the system.

But somehow, he still deserves praise? To hell with that.

Quote :

"Why don't you show some fucking evidence. Someone caught w/ a gram of pot is not going to be spending time in jail. Otherwise the penal system would be busting at the seams with minor drug offenders."

It is! Do you know how many minor offenders we process every year? How many people we put in jail or at least through the court system for shit like this? I mean, do you actually want me to dig up sources for this one?

Here:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/p05.htm
http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/drugpolicy/cracksinsystem_20061025.pdf

260,000 people in state prisons on nonviolent drug charges. You're telling me this is an insignificant number?

Quote :

"I NEVER said Obama was my main man. That would be Ron Paul who advocates a complete elmination of the war on drugs."

Well I'm glad we agree on one thing. (Well, two).

Quote :

"Classical TreeTwista10 or hooksaw ad homiem technique"

Because "let's all ignore this guy" is a high-minded debate tactic.

Quote :

"I beleive my original post contained the link regarding the topic at discussion. You then try to refute my opinion without offering any supporting evidence."

Again, try something, and I know this is hard, but try reading. I posted a link. Google. Look around. The guy expresses zero interest in changing the status quo. He speaks out in favor of it. I already posted evidence, and if this isn't enough, just google already.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 1:09 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 1:17 PM. Reason : Sources!]

11/29/2007 1:08:55 PM

Quote :

"but they do....getting charged with a minor drug charge, hardly ruins your life like your making it out..."

Having a drug rap on your record rules out federal aid from the start. Sure, getting caught with an ounce of weed isn't going to ruin your life. Getting caught with a couple crack rocks on you just might, though - especially if you're the victim of some "tough on crime" prosecutor. Either way, it's going to disproportionately affect you if you're poor.

11/29/2007 1:11:20 PM

Again, I agree that the countries drug policy is severely broken, but whatever Obama's stances are now and irregardless if I agree with them or not (which I don't), I'd much rather him tell the truth than lie.

anyway, only one candidate running would change the current policies.

11/29/2007 1:17:39 PM

Quote :

"People get time for "possession with intent to distribute""

yeah if you some major quantity like 2 oz on you. I am not admitting to using illegal substances but I know a lot of people in the pot community. Several of them got caught. Not a single one of them carrying a "normal" amount went to jail. The only person I know who went to jail was someone i knew that got busted with 1/2 a lb. Trust me this was not solely for his personal use. On the other hand unless it was a group of guys going on spring break or something; I have only known one person to buy an amount approaching 1 oz for their own personal use.

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 1:25 PM. Reason : a]

11/29/2007 1:21:33 PM

^^Sure, it's great that he tells the truth. Wonderful. But hardly praiseworthy when in doing so, he still condemns others doing the same thing. That's my point.

Didn't Chris Dodd also talk about (marijuana) decriminalization on NPR awhile back? Again, not exactly swelling the ranks here, and he's certainly not top-tier, but still...

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 1:22 PM. Reason : ^^]

11/29/2007 1:22:06 PM

Quote :

"yeah if you some major quantity like 2 oz on you"

Or if the cops come inside your apartment and find your stash... (Again, I know a guy this happened to. Granted, he was kind of a pothead, but still.)

11/29/2007 1:24:27 PM

multiple bags (with any weight) are bad news too.

^they had to have a warrant (unless he gave them permission), which means they were on to him for a while, which means he was probably being dumb....a little discretion usually goes a long way.

its funny, b/c I agree with most of your overall points....

[Edited on November 29, 2007 at 1:29 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2007 1:24:42 PM