Seems like a simple question, but I flat out don't understand. Why is gambling illegal/immoral? What does the stigma come from? And why?

12/13/2007 11:18:41 AM

b.c Jesus said so.


Nahh its cause the gov't has trouble collecting taxes from it; and they would rather have you use that money to invest/purchase goods (sales tax)/ or save for retirement. Either way its the gov't stepping in trying to be a Nanny protecting people from themselves just like when it comes to smoking pot and other shit

12/13/2007 11:24:27 AM

same reason other activities are deemed immoral - because someone interpreted some bible verse in that way, and the christian masses latch on to it and selective other bible verses, like usual
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-g001.html

12/13/2007 11:25:29 AM

From a Christian standpoint it is wrong because you're looking to win BIG money for SELFISH reasons. That's crux of it. Material wealth, as we all know, is not the Christian's goal persay. I mean, gambling isn't any worse than someone climbing the corporate ladder with no intention of pleasing God in his/her mind.

It's the same with other topics. Such as alcohol. The Bible says nothing that bans alcohol, but it does ban drunkeness. The Bible says nothing particularly against gambling, but it does ban love of money.

If your heart is all about gambling your money away and sincerely giving all your proceeds to help the poor and needy, then I don't see how Jesus would condemn you. The sad part is, 99.99999999% of the time that's not the case. Besides, Jesus would probably tell you that you're being foolish with your money and could probably do better and more productive things with it.

Quote :

"1 Corinthians 9:23"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. "

From a secular standpoint it is wrong because people waste away their money on something that has little odds of providing any profit. Basically, you need to feed you and your family. Also, I guess studies have shown it's addictive as well. Too much of something will always be bad whether it be gambling, alcohol, drugs, video games, food, tight leather pants, etc... Be responsible in your consumption.

Quote :

"Chicken Soup for the Soul - "Responsibility is the key to success""

[Edited on December 13, 2007 at 11:48 AM. Reason : opinions]

12/13/2007 11:39:25 AM

Gambling is wrong when you lose

12/13/2007 11:41:58 AM

I think its funny that you can win money in racing and or being an athlete and its OK but if you try to win money through a strategy game (even chess) then you're gambling.

The main reasons it is outlawed is because its hard to tax, and back in the day most gambling even legal gambling was run by the mob.

^^ and that is also part of it.
rich people often get taken by hustlers when they do attempt to play. Rich people also make laws.

12/13/2007 11:46:31 AM

Gambling is wrong because NC would rather you play the lottery

Quote :

"it is wrong because you're looking to win BIG money for SELFISH reasons"

What about the pastor of that super church in Georgia who drives around in a Rolls-Royce bought through church funds collected by donations.

[Edited on December 13, 2007 at 11:49 AM. Reason : a]

12/13/2007 11:47:22 AM

College football and the NFL are multi-billion dollar a year industries and gambling keeps the wheels turning

12/13/2007 11:47:28 AM

Quote :

"What about the pastor of that super church in Georgia who drives around in a Rolls-Royce bought through church funds collected by donations."

Don't you worry about him He has a special place reserved for him.

[Edited on December 13, 2007 at 11:51 AM. Reason : forgot to add the smilie]

12/13/2007 11:50:47 AM

yeah i don't get what happened to the whole vow of poverty thing.

12/13/2007 11:53:00 AM

Quote :

"From a secular standpoint it is wrong because people waste away their money on something that has little odds of providing any profit. "

I fucking work who is the gov't to tell me what i do with my money. oh wait they want me to go out and spend money on that big screen TV that they can collect 6.75% sales tax of off and that the federal gov't collected import taxes when it came over from Japan.

Quote :

"Gambling is wrong because NC would rather you play the lottery"

Victimless crimes should NEVER be a crime. If I gamble, lose my money and can not feed my children then I get punished for neglect. If i want to snort lines of blow then who cares? However, if i have to steal a car stereo in order to feed my addiction then I should go to jail for stealing.

I am not a serf to the system and should not be obligated to follow behaviors to benefit society. If I want to sit on my Lay-Z boy all day watching Ricki Lake that is my right. However, in the perfect system i would die of starvation b.c the gov't would not simply hand out welfare money to people not actively finding a job or not a victim of a "act of god".

[Edited on December 13, 2007 at 11:59 AM. Reason : a]

12/13/2007 11:54:42 AM

I don't see really why gambling has restrictions in today's society. Me placing a $10 bet on State to win is little different than me putting $10 on a stock hoping it rises in value. The latter's as much gambling as the former.

I've always treated gambling as something I do for fun and leisure. If I lived somewhere where it was legal, I would've thought about starting a book. I can do the numbers pretty good.

12/13/2007 12:01:18 PM

There was some story in the news in October about how police "raided" a VFW center in Rhode Island to break up illegal gambling a friendly $5 buy-in game of cribbage among 80 yr old WW2 vets. These honorable servicemen fought for our freedom against the Nazi's and could not even fucking bet money on a stupid board game w/o the police coming around to investigate.

12/13/2007 12:04:13 PM

Quote :

"Me placing a $10 bet on State to win is little different than me putting $10 on a stock hoping it rises in value."

the difference is the stock has a percent chance of going up or down while State winning is impossible.

12/13/2007 12:16:00 PM

lol

12/13/2007 12:19:35 PM

Quote :

"There was some story in the news in October about how police "raided" a VFW center in Rhode Island to break up illegal gambling a friendly $5 buy-in game of cribbage among 80 yr old WW2 vets. These honorable servicemen fought for our freedom against the Nazi's and could not even fucking bet money on a stupid board game w/o the police coming around to investigate. "

moral of this story is never trust a bored cop.


the funny thing about that stock comparison is if you look around you. Say you Gamble your $10 in the stock market.... now if you do about 5 more illegal immoral things you can get a guaranteed return.

i guess what i'm trying to say is ... i trust a ceo who gambles on a card table more than most of the others.


now if i rig this and re zone this and fuck this guy out of a home... my stock will go up.

or just kill a bunch of arabs like halliburton did.

[Edited on December 13, 2007 at 12:56 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2007 12:54:48 PM

I think you are confusing gov't corruption with investing money into the stock market.

12/13/2007 2:36:58 PM

Quote :

"From a Christian standpoint it is wrong because you're looking to win BIG money for SELFISH reasons."

Actually, there's probably a better reason from the Christian standpoint. In Proverbs, there are several verses that talk about how getting something without working for it is wrong. I'm sure that gambling fits that definition pretty easily.

12/13/2007 7:26:57 PM

getting something for nothing is SO RIGHT

stupid ass bible

12/13/2007 8:57:04 PM

I have no problem with gambling generally.
I do have a problem with the way it was legislated here in NC, but that is old news.

What I have a much bigger problem with is when the government FORCES me to gamble.
Worse yet I can't even really win.
It is called insurance.
Pessimistic gambling.

While I'm thinking about it, putting money into social security seems like gambling as well, what are the odds
we'll ever see that money again?

To answer the question, and I think xvang already has more or less, gambling is not morally wrong in and of itself.

12/13/2007 10:49:32 PM

historically gambling has been banned in America because it is a sin

thank our 19th century victorian forebears. right alongside the Temperance movement.

12/14/2007 2:23:21 AM

dupe!
http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=421203

Quote :

"If your heart is all about gambling your money away and sincerely giving all your proceeds to help the poor and needy, then I don't see how Jesus would condemn you. The sad part is, 99.99999999% of the time that's not the case. Besides, Jesus would probably tell you that you're being foolish with your money and could probably do better and more productive things with it."

Talking about what jesus would do can't help but make you should like a child


[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 2:30 AM. Reason : whoops, wrong link]

12/14/2007 2:25:31 AM

i see what you did there

12/14/2007 2:27:39 AM

Quote :

"thank our 19th century victorian Puritan Ancestors forebears"

12/14/2007 9:01:00 AM

Quote :

"Actually, there's probably a better reason from the Christian standpoint. In Proverbs, there are several verses that talk about how getting something without working for it is wrong. I'm sure that gambling fits that definition pretty easily. "

I can see that too. Old Testatment values are practical, but New Testament teachings do a better job at "getting to the heart of the matter". The gambler had to get the money somehow. So, in a sense he did work for it. Of course, if he stole the money and then used it to gamble, then he has committed a double whammy.

Ultimately, the New Testament is more focused on where your heart and mind are set. Do you seek material wealth or spiritual wealth? That's why I believe my reasoning is more true to the heart of the matter.

Quote :

"Talking about what jesus would do can't help but make you should like a child "

Sure it'll help... if you're a Christian (aka Jesusian). If you're not a Christian, then of course it sounds childish.

Disclaimer: Please refer to my secular moral explaination if you fall into that category. If you don't fall into either, then make up your own explaination to why gambling is wrong (or right, for that matter).

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 9:45 AM. Reason : disclaiming]

12/14/2007 9:42:40 AM

Is gambling $500 of my money away in blackjack that much worse then say dropping $500 at the bar everynight

or

paying $500 for box seats to envy another guy play sports

or

making putting flat panel tv's in every room of my house

or

buying hordes of NC Education lottery tickets to fund a lot of pork spending

the point is i work to make my money and the gov't should not tell me how to use it. If I want to dig a big hole and stash it for explorers to find in 500 years then thats my fucking right. The christians against gambling can shove their dogma up their ass. For the money grubbing politicians then maybe institute a more strict "capital gains tax" if you are worried about some card shark making $texas w/o paying taxes

12/14/2007 10:09:03 AM

the law is neither a gauge of right and wrong, nor a guide to morality.

12/14/2007 10:23:15 AM

Thank you I am glad someone agrees.

Some people would argue till blue in the face that whoever breaks the law for any reason is immoral. I think this really blew up in my protest of the RIAA lawsuits. Some douche was like you are immoral or some crap for downloading a song.

12/14/2007 11:47:05 AM

That's right, I forgot. You don't believe that downloading music you haven't paid for is stealing.

12/14/2007 11:48:15 AM

Gambling from a secular standpoint holds two problems. From a purely practical standpoint, the flow of that much money tends to attract criminal elements. Its not enough of a problem ban gambling outright, but it is a nasty little side effect if not addressed properly when setting up a gambling infrastructure.

There is also a more "bleeding heart" view on gambling. While people of all socio-economic levels gamble, the poor in particular pay the highest price for it. It's one of the cases you hear whenever a lottery debate comes up: poor and working class people buy the majority of the tickets even if they are the group that can least afford it. For the lottery in particular, it's considered by many as a tax on poor and working class people. One can say that those who buy lottery tickets are stupid and deserve to be parted with their money, but given that lotteries are usually sold as a way to help the poor and stupid to begin with.

12/14/2007 2:09:17 PM

Quote :

"state lottery : noun; a regressive tax imposed by the state on those of its citizens it has failed to provide a basic education in the laws of probability. Usage: "You don't see many Harvard graduates waiting in line to buy lottery tickets." Related quotation: "I never play the lottery. I figure I have about the same chance of winning whether I play or not." - Fran Liebowitz"

12/14/2007 2:20:57 PM

Quote :

"Actually, there's probably a better reason from the Christian standpoint. In Proverbs, there are several verses that talk about how getting something without working for it is wrong. I'm sure that gambling fits that definition pretty easily."

don't gamble much do you ?

12/14/2007 2:22:20 PM

Quote :

"That's right, I forgot. You don't believe that downloading music you haven't paid for is stealing."

you are right; and I think the RIAA has been getting away with extortion for the past 5 years.

12/14/2007 2:31:48 PM

Quote :

"it's considered by many as a tax on poor and working class people."

how's it a tax??? No one is making them buy lottery tickets and they will not have the IRS come knocking at their door if they do not buy lottery tickets. I'd rather have LaShwana buying lottery tickets for a thrill which contributes for her 5 kids eduction then buy crack rocks.

fact is stupid people are going to be manipulated by someone to take their money. If its not the gov't then it'll be some charismatic salesmen. At least we do not have to bitch about paying more taxes.

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 2:36 PM. Reason : a]

12/14/2007 2:34:08 PM

^ Just repeating how it's been described by its critics. We can call it a government-sponsored fundraiser if you'd prefer.

12/14/2007 2:48:56 PM

sounds good to me.

I have no problems with a "tax on stupidity" anyway

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 2:51 PM. Reason : a]

12/14/2007 2:50:29 PM

HUR:

puritans were not 19th century. and they weren't all that terribly restrictive either, contrary to popular belief.

the 19th century victorian era brought us all the self-righteous moralizers who helped moved america into the screechy nation of biblethumping anti-everything bigots that we see today.




[Edited on December 15, 2007 at 1:34 AM. Reason : ]

12/15/2007 1:33:21 AM

but why has the UK the urban mythical "conservative haven" really been so much quicker to shed its Victorian attitude then the US??

12/15/2007 2:49:46 AM

more representative political institutions

12/15/2007 2:52:46 AM

They aren't as isolated.

12/15/2007 4:39:52 AM

Yes, let's follow in the UKs footsteps by shedding the Victorian attitude. Then we can be a screechy nation of biblethumping anti-everything bigots that we see today.

On the first page of the SB you have a thread about how the UK is banning swords. Their was even one post (unfounded or otherwise) talking about regulations on salt and bans on caffeine.

Religion is a nice scapegoat isn't it? I wonder what the next one would be if religion was taken completely out of the equation and you realized that there weren't any widespread changes in the way people are.

12/15/2007 9:13:10 AM

Quote :

"anti-everything bigots that we see today."

12/15/2007 12:37:58 PM

Heres a rather extreme case of gambling addiction, but perhaps not too uncommon

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/15/military.gambling/index.html

12/15/2007 3:35:22 PM

^thats not a gambling problem.

12/15/2007 4:39:15 PM

Did you perhaps mean to ask "Why do some people believe/say gambling is wrong?"

Quote :

"In Proverbs, there are several verses that talk about how getting something without working for it is wrong. I'm sure that gambling fits that definition pretty easily."

Wasn't "It is better to give than to receive" also in that book? Woe, I am tempting others into sin if I give them anything

12/15/2007 4:56:03 PM

Quote :

"What does the stigma come from?"

Isn't it obvious?

Visions of gambling: cowboys shooting each other. The Mob. Gambling addicts losing everything they own and getting the shit beat out of them or killing themselves. Drunk, fat, rich, lazy slave owners gambling with human lives. Pool hall brawls. Never mind some of the other stuff that's tied to it--drugs and whores running around doing their little behind shake for the menfolk. "Friendly" games can turn pretty nasty pretty quick, too, whether it's during the game or afterwards. And we haven't even touched on cheating...with gambling comes cheating, and cheating is bad.

We can talk about whether or not gambling is illegal/immoral...but let's not act like we don't know where the stigma comes from.

12/16/2007 5:17:18 AM

being good at gambling, is actually a lot of work.

a full time job, and then some

fuck Proverbs.

12/16/2007 8:42:47 AM

^Sure(mostly) but, if you always win when you're gambling is it really gambling?

12/16/2007 5:35:56 PM

I think people should have the right to gamble....i'm all for survival of the fittest.

12/16/2007 5:52:05 PM

Because it plays on people's weaknesses - like taking candy from children. It is psycologically addicting - and the odds are stacked against you (in a casino anyway). I gamble in Vegas when I'm there ... and haven't lost more than I could afford, but if it was legal everywhere, who knows.

12/16/2007 6:06:23 PM