okay... here's the strategy:

we lose the first four states miserably...

we'll do so bad that even Ron Paul looks viable compared to me...

then, once everyone has forgotten that I'm even running for president, we'll do a sneak attack and out-flank the whole lot of them...

and coast right on into the White House.





Gee, sir. That's brilliant. Utterly brilliant!





You think so? I thought it up all on my own.

1/9/2008 2:36:04 AM

http://rudygiuliani08.ytmnd.com/

1/9/2008 2:47:10 AM

^ looks like "Lilly" at Cup-a-Joe.

does she still hang out there? tell her i said hi.

1/9/2008 2:49:29 AM

well, he knew he didn't have a snowball's chance in hell in Iowa or Wyoming, so he said "Fuck it."

I don't know, I figured he could've made a better showing in NH. Hell, even if he couldn't unseat McCain or Romney, I at least don't see why he couldn't have done substantially better if he'd campaigned there.

He's throwing his resources at Super Tuesday states and the heavily populated states.

I'll be very surprised if it works, because I think it'll be too little, too late to overcome the momentum, popularity, and political credibility (not to mention fundraising dollars) gained by the winners of the early states...but I guess it's not a completely unviable idea.

1/9/2008 2:51:30 AM

Don't count Giuliani out, but McCain's running strong right now.

National

To Win 2008 Democratic Presidential Nomination

Hillary Clinton: 58.5

Barack Obama: 40.0

John Edwards: 1.5

To Win 2008 Republican Presidential Nomination

John McCain: 38.0

Rudy Giuliani: 29.5

Mike Huckabee: 15.5

Mitt Romney: 10.6

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/latest_results_from_rasmussen_markets

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 3:38 AM. Reason : NB: The numbers ^ change frequently. ]

1/9/2008 3:35:05 AM

You forgot 9/11 there, Joe.

9/11 9/11 9/11

...9/11.

1/9/2008 12:17:02 PM

noway mccain can win the republican nomination. His amnesty bill should have killed him months ago.


Rudy's campaign will either go down as genius or stupidity. Im leaning toward the later.

1/9/2008 12:22:45 PM

not every conservative/republican hates brown people... just the ones who listen to rush

1/9/2008 1:36:27 PM

^typical response. Anyone against open borders and for enforcing laws is automatically racist. Nice work.

1/9/2008 3:09:14 PM

^ just admit it dude. you hate brown folks.

look, im gonna find out what optometry shop you work at. then i'ma compile all your racist/misogynistic comments and have my brother go drop a batch of fliers there.

so ... where are you?

Lens Crafters?

or are you at one of those high-end stores in Cary Towne Center?






[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 3:45 PM. Reason : ]

1/9/2008 3:32:37 PM

Never underestimate the fear and hatred of a white population. So Rudy may still have a chance. But then again don't most white conservatives hate yankees too? Hmm, this is a paradox...

1/9/2008 9:11:46 PM

Is Rudy still leading the national polls?

I think you boys have it wrong. Conservatives dont hate different races. They hate people that oppose freedom.

One party tries to recreate a population dependant on others and the government. The other tries to promote freedom to allow the individual to choose their own path.

I think that is where more of the frustration comes from. You hear about free healthcare, free money for children born, free babysitting, etc etc. And you think all of those come at the expense of someone else's freedom and money that they have worked for.

No one is standing in the way of anyone from bettering themselves. Sometimes it doesnt happen but that is usually due to personal decisions and honestly, some programs which make things harder to wean yourself off.

1/9/2008 9:37:40 PM

Quote :

"One party tries to recreate a population dependant on others and the government. The other tries to promote freedom to allow the individual to choose their own path."

Which party is the latter, exactly? Because all I see are two parties trying to accomplish the same ends as the former albeit through different means and mandates.

1/9/2008 9:53:37 PM

Quote :

" No one is standing in the way of anyone from bettering themselves."

How can you say this so unequivocally when you have the national media and half the people on here asking if we can elect a (half) black person as president? Or a woman?

If you think that we as a society are at the point where a person's race or other factors doesn't have a measurable affect on their capabilities or potential, you are delusional.

I, and most liberals/conservatives, understand the idea of not wanting the gov. to spend money on things that they feel are wasteful or useless (like the way the war in Iraq is conducted). But, it doesn't make sense, if you interests are a strong country and a strong society, to pretend that the past has no effect on the present, or the future.

Quote :

"Anyone against open borders and for enforcing laws is automatically racist."

Being against open borders doesn't make someone racist, but justifying it with the statement that "it's illegal" makes it seems that way, since it's such a blatant cop-out. Essentially, just because something is illegal, doesn't make it wrong.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 9:57 PM. Reason : ]

1/9/2008 9:55:00 PM

moron, thanks for addressing the issue.

I would disagree though. I dont think people are standing in the way of anyone willing to better themselves. One could go back to school, work 12 hours a day if motivated to do so. But comparing "bettering yourself" to running for president is a bit of a stretch.

Do you feel im a racist bc I want the border controlled? The flood of immigrants causes alot of problems in this country. Our government should be allowed to control its borders and account for who enters it, imo. Its not who coming in, its the amount and goals. Immigrants have come to this country for years to be americans. There are many groups now claiming to take back parts of the US for mexico. This doesnt bother you?

A massive influx of people in a short period of time, of ANY race, strains our systems. Surely we can agree on that.

The point of it being illegal is that we have RULES that many are following and jumping through hoops to become americans. Its not ok to reward people for skipping line and not following the rules simply because there are too many already here. It will create more of a problem and a ton of resentment from the legal immigrants.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 10:09 PM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 10:07:56 PM

Quote :

"Conservatives dont hate different races. They hate people that oppose freedom. One party tries to recreate a population dependant on others and the government. The other tries to promote freedom to allow the individual to choose their own path."

If only this were true in more than a handful of cases.




____________________________

and I, along with most everyone else, want changes on the immigration front, to include greater border security. however, i don't have the sort of phobic fervor about gettin' rid o' dem Mexicans as people like you do, and the steps I support are, in my opinion, far more reasonable.

1/10/2008 2:02:51 AM

I support arbitrary government trade barriers in the labor market that are so disconnected from reality that a thriving black market in human traffic has developed.

[Edited on January 10, 2008 at 2:07 AM. Reason : .]

1/10/2008 2:05:26 AM

I tell you guys what. I would support open borders if you did a couple of things.

1. Get the governement out of healthcare, food stamps, housing, SS, etc

2. Do away the income tax and go to a comsumption tax

Do those and Im all for it.

1/10/2008 9:29:08 AM

Quote :

"One party tries to recreate a population dependant on others and the government. The other tries to promote freedom to allow the individual to choose their own path."

How much Kool-aid did you drink??

Do I have to get into the erosion of personal liberties since Bush took office? Or how about the numerous attempts to legislate morality by the Republican base?

Let me have a turn at spinning party stances...

One party tries to create a stronger middle class and provide assistance to the poor. The other tries to promote hatred towards brown skinned people and tax cuts for the rich.

Note - I'm not registered with either party, just trying to show the absurdity of your statement.

1/10/2008 9:37:52 AM

9/11 CHANGED EVERYTHING LOIS

IT CHANGED EVERYTHING

1/10/2008 9:39:37 AM

^ill agree bush is a huge disappointment.

But how can you not listen to the dems and their plans to punish the rich and provide free this and that and not think that just isnt right. These programs that create government dependency are great to build your voting pull, but do nothing to help the individual. People simply sit back and elect who will give them the most instead of working towards anything.

Instead of our government penalizing people for doing the right things and being successful, they punish you. Then reward people for being irresponsible, at the expense of the productive. Its wrong in my opinion.

Let me ask you honestlly, how do you legislate a strong middle class? Just a couple ideas if you would.

"That government is best which governs least." One of the best quotes ever, and I agree. Government is supposed to stay out of our lives not dictate them. However, I will admit that the current crops of republicans have seemed to lose that perspective. And sadly, I believe that is bc there are alot more people standing with thier hands out they are trying to appeal to.

And this notion of hating brown people is laughable.

1/10/2008 9:46:24 AM

Just the price graphs of the Republican Nominees to get the nomination on TradeSports:

McCain


Guiliani


Huckabee


Romney


Paul


Thompson


Pretty huge volume on most of these (average of about 130000 I'd say) which is about 1.3 million in dollar equivalent per candidate.

It works like a stock market, except the price can only go between 0 and 100. If the event occurs, the payout is 10 dollars per share (value 100) and if it doesn't occur, you get nothing (value 0). Thus the asking price for one share of McCain to win the Nomination right now would cost you $3.69.

For the most part they mirror the polls, but I still find them interesting.

[Edited on January 10, 2008 at 10:25 AM. Reason : lol @ Thompson's price in summer '07]

1/10/2008 10:16:32 AM

Quote :

"I think you boys have it wrong. Conservatives dont hate different races. They hate people that oppose freedom."

Duke covered this pretty well.


But, what are pro-business Republicans to do when confronted with a base who fears an influx of Mexicans. We need cheap labor, but we need the votes. Ohhh the irony!

1/10/2008 10:43:57 AM

^^ How is that different from gambling?

1/10/2008 11:11:40 AM

Quote :

"I tell you guys what. I would support open borders if you did a couple of things. 1. Get the governement out of healthcare, food stamps, housing, SS, etc 2. Do away the income tax and go to a comsumption tax Do those and Im all for it."

First of all, few if any people are arguing for open borders.


As for the rest, I don't want socialized health care.

Food stamps and gov't housing are good programs in terms of being a short term safety net (and even in their currently bloated state, they're kind of a whipping boy--yes, they're bad, but they're demonized proportionately worse than they actually are.

SS is a scourge. At a minimum, there ought to be opt out conditions and/or at least partial privatization.

I'm all about shitcanning the IRS and the income tax and going with some sort of either consumption tax or VAT.

1/10/2008 3:36:45 PM

Duke, I wouldnt be so sure. Once you claim you want border security you are labeled as a racist or scared of brown people. So the opposite must hold true.

My point was if you took away the "drains" on taxpayers that immigration coudl cause, then I woudl be for unregulated immigration.

I think we do need temporary housing, foodstamps, welfare. But people are making a career out of it. To welcome in a whole new crop of leeches(and Im not saying all the immigrants are, but you would be naive to think our programs arent a draw) without a plan in place or the ability to keep up is irrational and irresponsible.

1/10/2008 4:10:34 PM

Quote :

"Once you claim you want border security you are labeled as a racist or scared of brown people."

Well, if you people could present a reasonable defense of your position -- one that actually holds water -- we wouldn't have to assume the worst about you.

1/10/2008 4:29:10 PM

Quote :

"Well, if you people could present a reasonable defense of your position -- one that actually holds water -- we wouldn't have to assume the worst about you. "

Well if you would actually read my arguement about the drains on society it causes. But that doesnt follow the racist lines people like to paint.

Just for shits and giggles, here are some numbers for ya.

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.


Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).


With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.


On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.


Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.


If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.


The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain -- many legal immigrants are highly skilled.


The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.


The results of this study are consistent with a 1997 study by the National Research Council, which also found that immigrants' education level is a key determinant of their fiscal impact.

1/10/2008 5:38:01 PM

Rudy's plan is way too risky, if he doesnt win in Florida, his campaign is over. His lead in Florida isn't that huge, I think this plan will not work because the winners of ealier contests will gain too much attention and media coverage.

Rudy also need to stop milking the security issue and show himself more as a complete candidate.

1/10/2008 11:37:32 PM

That's why he's proposing the biggest tax cut in history. I don't think he realizes that we need to pay for the government somehow...

1/10/2008 11:42:24 PM

^I don't think that'll hurt him too much... after all, most politicians don't seem to realize that money is not infinite.

1/10/2008 11:58:10 PM

Poor Rudy

the "Florida Plan" didn't work out so well, did it.

i can't imagine why.

1/30/2008 12:08:18 AM

Quote :

"Don't count Giuliani out,"

How about now?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080130/ap_on_el_pr/giuliani

Looks like the politics of fear was played out by Bush & Co. in 2004 thankfully.

1/30/2008 12:12:16 AM

^ I would have liked to see Rudy make it, but he didn't--that's life in the rough-and-tumble world of presidential campaigns. And?

BTW, you conveniently forgot the rest of my post:

Quote :

". . .but McCain's running strong right now."

And that's typical liberal methodology for you: You're lucky if you get even half of the truth--but they make damn sure to get in the ad homs.

1/30/2008 1:14:55 AM

RUSSSSSSSSSSSH LIMBAUGHHHHH!

megadittos, folks.

1/30/2008 1:44:47 AM

^^ Because this thread has nothing to do with McCain. And I supposed your deflection is typical closet republican bullshit of trying to make this about the libs when you get called out.

1/30/2008 2:05:34 AM

Called out? A closet Republican? You've done nothing of the sort and I am nothing of the sort.

Please stop acting like a fucking douche.

1/30/2008 2:33:31 AM

So let me get this straight. You come in here and promptly defend the paltry remnants of Mr. 9/11's presidential hopes. He loses big time. I drop the reminder and you immediately redirect the discussion to McCain and liberal philosophy. Wow, talk about being a "douchebag". But I am sure you'll be back soon enough parroting something from either of your pals Sean or Rush about how evil "libs" suppressed Rudy's heroic attempts to make sure we never forget 9/11.

1/30/2008 3:35:43 AM

pwnt

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/by_mark_silva_orlando.html

Quote :

"Giuliani said he had spoken to Romney and he commended McCain, as well as Mike Huckabee – and Ron Paul – “who won all of the debates,’’ Giuliani added."

1/30/2008 3:38:32 AM

haha i just saw that clip on gretta

1/30/2008 4:51:04 AM

1/30/2008 4:59:59 AM

^^^^ It was relevant to mention McCain because it puts my full quotation in context, which is a concept that is obviously beyond your grasp. In addition, Giuliani has endorsed McCain, so that's another reason my mention of McCain is related to Giuliani, see? Of course you don't.

BTW, STFU.

1/30/2008 11:07:47 AM

Quote :

"plz someone embed 'Another One Bites the Dust"

1/30/2008 11:16:51 AM

ba da bump bump bump

ba dumpa dump bumpa dump!

1/30/2008 1:38:54 PM

the best clip i heard on tv today

"Just like most New Yorkers, Guliani chose to die in Florida"

ha!

1/31/2008 5:04:25 PM

eyedrb has said so much good stuff in this thread i cant even copy n paste it all.....so i just wanted to give him some props nonetheless. right on man

2/2/2008 8:50:08 PM

"with tongue at the ready for any crevice that might present itself...."

2/3/2008 12:49:45 AM

^you see my point 18. Classic example.

2/3/2008 9:17:50 AM

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/28/882060850/federal-investigators-search-rudy-giulianis-apartment

4/28/2021 1:48:03 PM

wonder where ol' hooksaw and republican18 stand on the current GOP these days

4/29/2021 1:25:02 PM