Car is a 97 Formula, have already done some misc engine add ons:
CAI, Catback, Airfoil, TBB, Performance Tune, Tune up.

Thinking about using the tax returns for either 4.10 gears or shocks/springs/panhard bar.
Costs is nearly equivalent, current gears are 3.42

Which would you go with? End all goal for me is well perfoming OVERALL vehicle not just straight line so suspension is important too. Car currently handles fairly well in lower speed cornering, anything over about 60 -70 is too much body roll.

2/26/2008 11:08:19 AM

i would probably go with a different car if your goal is overall handling

2/26/2008 11:10:21 AM

either one is a winner. i'd say suspension.

2/26/2008 11:12:28 AM

^^didnt say it had to handle like an enzo. just be decent

2/26/2008 11:43:21 AM

suspension is probably the best and only mod anyone should do to a car. if it doesnt already have decent suspension.

2/26/2008 11:56:38 AM

is this a daily driver? I would think 4.10's would really murder gas mileage on that car

2/26/2008 11:56:52 AM

if your car cant turn well whats the point of making it go fast?



[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 12:05 PM. Reason : ]

2/26/2008 12:05:49 PM

drag racing?

2/26/2008 12:12:01 PM

^^^its a semi daily driver, ive got a beater. 4.10s are a common gear for an M6 formula, seems to only impact it by 2-3 mpg.

^^true, if i did gears now, suspension is probably only a couple months away. just trying to decide which to do now. the main thing is really how much of a difference will shocks and springs make on a car like that, is the difference usable daily or is it only going to be really noticable at an autox? gears would add an instant

2/26/2008 12:35:47 PM

I'd do springs. The car is already making good power and probably feels fine in a straight line with it's current setup.

2/26/2008 12:38:10 PM

is it a M6 or A4? 4.10s are too much gear for the A4 imo. My 94 has
KYB AGX struts front/monroe sensatrac shocks rear
Eibach Prokit springs
non-adjustable panhard rod/LCA's with relo brackets
hotchkis subframe connectors

It was too low so i switched the rear springs back 2 stock, but it still corners extremely flat. Get the subframe connectors, they make a big difference in chassis flex. It handles well for what it is. the thing about the car is that it does grip well and has negligble roll, but the steering feel really sucks compared to any european or even modern american sports car. You have to trust the suspension is going to keep the car on track even though the wheel is telling you absolutely nothing. Its the nature of the beast i'm afraid

2/26/2008 1:04:44 PM

hit some some autoX forums or something that you can find what some people are running on some muscle cars like yours.

you dont have to copy them, but it will give you some what of a clue what you will be dealing with.

you might need a whole new susp. setup. shocks and springs, sway bars, strut bars, connectors here and there.

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 1:06 PM. Reason : ^good post]

2/26/2008 1:06:00 PM

Quote :

"is it a M6 or A4? 4.10s are too much gear for the A4 imo"

seconded

The car definetly needs suspension, I was going to say do the gears first but if you're going to be doing both you might as well get some decent suspension first.

2/26/2008 1:13:25 PM

its an M6. subframe connectors are something im definitely going to look into but given that its a convertible im limited, only a couple of manufactorers make them and they dont make any that have the built in cross braces.

i guess at this point im leaning towards the susp. from talking to most of the folks on the bird forums my best options considering the budget appear to be Strano spings with some Tokico HP shocks. Would love to car to handle much more flatly than it does now.

2/26/2008 2:57:09 PM

read http://www.corner-carvers.com

2/26/2008 3:30:33 PM

definitely suspension since it's already got 3.42's. don't put another dime in that axle unless it's a 12 bolt or 9 inch.

Quote :

"I would think 4.10's would really murder gas mileage on that car"

nah, not at all. double od ftw. 4.30's or 4.56's aren't even that bad.

2/26/2008 6:55:29 PM

^a 9" might be down the road but just too pricey at this point.

figure ill be alright with 4.10's as long as i dont plan on putting drag radials on it. rear end seems to hold together until you set them up to hook hard. might look at some of the bracing kits available to prolong the life of it.

2/26/2008 7:01:34 PM

just put drag radials on it now and spray it

2/26/2008 8:46:06 PM

3.42 to 4.10 is only going to be a slight difference. don't waste your money, especially not on that axle.

2/26/2008 8:59:04 PM

Dont spend your money on a car. Put it in the bank

2/26/2008 9:02:54 PM

suspension

2/26/2008 9:19:07 PM

Suspension for sure.
I have 3.23s with a t56 but also a small cam and it's plenty to send the tires into smoke without any kind of a clutch dump.

Actually springs were probably the one mod that I've enjoyed the most on this car.

[Edited on February 26, 2008 at 9:24 PM. Reason : springs]

2/26/2008 9:23:14 PM

just put drag radials on it now and spray it

2/26/2008 9:23:21 PM

dont spend money on it, buy a better car

$.02

2/26/2008 9:43:16 PM

better car for what?

2/26/2008 11:03:49 PM

Well I dont know how about a

Quote :

"well perfoming OVERALL vehicle"

2/27/2008 12:03:55 AM

wait, it's a convertible? you are trying to do handling mod to a convertible F-body? don't waste your money. get the 4.10

2/27/2008 1:05:04 AM

seriously. i'd either leave it alone, sell it and get something different, or make it stupid silly fast in a straight line and call it a day.

2/27/2008 1:08:11 AM

dont see why you'll are hating on the f-bodys handling so bad. granted it doesnt hold a candle to a couple of my previous cars, but its certainly not bad. cars got plenty of lateral grip to take corners at speed, main issue as someone mentioned is going to be steering input and unless your going very fast thats not even that bad.

2/27/2008 7:20:52 AM

see, this is when you have one minded people trying to give you advice.

people everywhere mod any type of car.

i work on a FWD vehicle that would roll any car in the garage. no big deal. thats my niche.

this nigga is a g body hustla.
do what you want. be different, or dont. its up to you. if you want to see what you can make the formula do, thats awesome because thats what i would do.

they have classes for these different types of cars.

every now and then someone will come in here with a thread like this, the last one was donkeybutt asking whether or not he should get a 240 or integra.

2 different cars, each with their own potential. its the magazine racers who will go the easy route to be fast and not learn a thing or two about road race dynamics.

you should build this car and it will teach you. yeah it might not be the best handling car and you may sell it after you are done because you want something better. but at least you did it. you've gotta start somewhere.

what are you going to get? an S2000? those suckers are setup for the track from the factory, you arent going to learn a single thing expect how honda makes their cars rev so damn high.

id say stick with it.

[Edited on February 27, 2008 at 10:04 AM. Reason : ]

2/27/2008 10:03:21 AM

you dont always need the right car for the right job.

or we'd all be driving toyota camrys with v8 motors

2/27/2008 10:12:41 AM

I have a 97 Z28 and have been down this road already.

I'd pass on the gear swap, the LT1 has a pretty flat torque curve anyway. Plus, if you ever drive the car really hard or start making significantly more power or traction, the whole stock rear will prove inadequate no matter what gears are in it. LT1/LS1 cars with just modest power increases over stock have been known to scatter rears on hard launches with sticky tires.

Suspension? A nice set of shocks and springs, a good panhard rod, and a thicker front sway bar will make a HUGE difference in these cars. Those three things are all these cars really need to make quite a transformation.
Another worthwhile mod is a set of good long tube headers and Y-pipe.

2/27/2008 10:53:01 AM

^thats on the to do list as well.

^^ and agreed

2/27/2008 12:03:13 PM

seriously, did you read up on corner-carvers.com? all the american iron road race tech you'll ever need is there. there is no need to ask TWW ever again.

2/27/2008 3:19:23 PM

Quote :

"dont see why you'll are hating on the f-bodys handling so bad."

because people here are retarded and don't know wtf they're talking about. they've driven the 1-3 cars that they've owned since they were 16, and that's it. they also only bother to educate themselves on vehicles that interest them.

^yep, def. a good site if he wants to go road racing/auto-x. maybe he wants a drag car though, dunno... either way, suspension and chassis work is the way to go.

2/27/2008 3:50:43 PM

yah, the site is good. a lot of info.

i remember the first time he posted it a while back i couldnt find the site to save my life. i spend a lot of time lurking there now

2/27/2008 4:54:11 PM

Quote :

"you dont always need the right car for the right job. or we'd all be driving toyota camrys with v8 motors"

An economy car with a gas guzzler engine.

Brilliant example.

2/27/2008 6:43:39 PM

yeah, since all v8's are gas guzzlers.

i'll bet you $100 my modified ls1 gets equal to or at least within a few mpg of your s2k on the highway, and will mop the floor with it in any performance competition.

[Edited on February 27, 2008 at 6:48 PM. Reason : come on, quit posting silly things.]

2/27/2008 6:47:35 PM

Why do you guys keep mentioning an s2000? I never told the kid to buy an s2000. I don't care what kind of engine you have. I don't seek your approval for my cars gas mileage. I'm not the thread creator I don't go around asking for other peoples opinions. I gave him my opinion. A 97 formula is not worth dumping money into.

Furthermore : Within a few mpg? We're going to be operating around 28mpg

3mpg is fucking 10%

2/27/2008 6:59:03 PM

^ C5/C6 vettes get awesome gas mileage

for whatever that has to do with anything in this thread

2/27/2008 7:00:24 PM

I imagine with an aerodynamic body, and a 6th gear running 1500rpm at 65-70 would net at the very least high 20's.

[Edited on February 27, 2008 at 7:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2008 7:06:05 PM

sad. my a4 with 3.42's gets 26mpg going 70-75mph. it might do a little better going slower, but that's the range i usually drive at. that's with a cam and full bolt ons, you do the math on where that puts it on power. 6 speeds have been known to easily bring down 30+.

no one is picking on your s2k, they're great cars. i'm just saying your statements of his car being a worthless car to modify and v8's being gas guzzlers are completely ludicrous. i just happened to use an s2k as an example since it's obviously something you can relate to.

maybe a domestic v8 isn't your thing which is fine, but that doesn't discount what the car is and what it's capable of.



[Edited on February 27, 2008 at 7:21 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2008 7:18:01 PM

Why don't you find me a four door sedan with a v8 that gets an epa highway rating of 30mpg.

Here is a website you can use to hunt for one http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm .

You picked an s2000 because you thought it would upset me. Don't you think It would be hard for me to drive a car and not notice all its flaws.

To name a few :

it sounds like a leaf blower inside the cabin with the roof up
small trunk
small interior
gas mileage isn't very good
the soft top makes for decent sized blind spots
tires are gone in ~10k miles
old ones burn oil
body style hasn't been updated in 8 years
high power band making it more frequent for you to money shift blowing up your engine
no low end torque, even when "Stroked" to 2.2L Lawlllll
seats fit in a civic , so vandalism ++
weak back end that blows up
no traction control , for in the rain
paper thin door skins , dent when looked at funny
weighs more than a miata
you have to manually unlatch both sides of the roof before it will lower

2/27/2008 7:23:47 PM

FWIW, i've seen a SS Camaro get FTD at an autox before. Beat every STi, S2000, M3, miata, etc, etc, there raw. I'm NOT saying its a better car, but its possible make work in the right hands i guess. It was also driven by a super human driver who normally drives a CRX. He got out and on his 2nd run in the Camara (can you think of a more opposite car from a CRX?) sets FTD.

2/27/2008 7:28:33 PM

Few cars I've looked up so far :

2008 chevy impala 16City 19Combined 24Hwy
2008 Pontiac G8 15City 18Combined 24Hwy
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix 16City 19Combined 25Hwy
2008 Cadillac DTS 15City 18Combined 22Hwy
2008 Cadillac STS 15City 18Combined 24Hwy
2008 BMW 550i 15City 18Combined 22Hwy


Ok I'm tired of searching.



^ A guy driving both a crx and an ss camaro sounds like an awesome person to meet . Youre right about polar opposites.

[Edited on February 27, 2008 at 7:35 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2008 7:34:18 PM

^^^wat? who said anything about 4 door sedans getting 30mpg?

i didn't pick an s2k to piss you off, i already said i picked it because it's a car you can relate to and it made a good example for my point. just because you don't like f-bodies doesn't mean they're waste of money. for example, i don't like 350z's. i'm sure as hell not going to tell someone they're a waste of money though, it's a solid sports car.

[Edited on February 27, 2008 at 7:35 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2008 7:35:26 PM

I was under the impression you thought a v8 engine in a 4 door sedan (camry) wouldn't be a gas guzzler. I didn't know your argument's strength was isolated to one select case in which a v8 was in an aerodynamic coupe and being compared to an i4 mated to a transmission designed to keep it in its power band (6000-8300 RPM). I apologize for misunderstanding you're original point. You can understand the confusion.

2/27/2008 7:40:46 PM

how is it that hard to understand?

you said: a camry with a v8 is an economy car with a gas guzzling engine

i said: all v8's aren't gas guzzlers, and made my point by comparing a v8 sports car to a 4 cylinder sports car.

even if you want to limit this to 4 door sedans, you still aren't making any sense. mid 20's doesn't equal a gas guzzler. not to mention that a camry isn't an economy car, nor is it as big/heavy as any v8 4 door i can think of.

2/27/2008 7:46:45 PM

y0 holmes to belair,

the reason why i mentioned the camry with a v8 is because of nascar.

its like baseball is americas pastime, nascar is what everyone thinks when the think "racing".

[Edited on February 27, 2008 at 9:17 PM. Reason : another joke of mine not understood. haha ]

2/27/2008 9:17:18 PM

yeah, and the camry is the only car in nascar that's actually made in the u.s. not that any of them remotely resemble their factory counterparts except for a few stickers...

2/27/2008 9:18:42 PM