. . . could bankrupt the United States?

It's absolutely amazing if you think about it. Bin Laden was able to troll the United States into chasing him around the world and into impossible, expensive quagmires like Iraq. Now the country has basically spent itself out of the #1 spot it once enjoyed. Things will only continue to get worse.

It's actually depressing to think about, and even worse to think that even still, many people support and promote the same policies and behaviors that led to this stinking mess to begin with. Compounded upon that it's even worse to think that these people accuse everybody else of hating the country when it's their failed policies that have ensured this country's fall from greatness.

Again, think about it. Boxcutters and some flight lessons bankrupted and dethroned the leader of the free world.

4/8/2008 8:38:16 PM

oh you terrorist.

4/8/2008 8:42:31 PM

What was it, like $500,000?

The Pentagon spends that much on a screwdriver.

4/8/2008 8:45:40 PM

We're not really bankrupt though. I would say 9/11 accelerated things, but our past lifestyle was unsustainable and the development of China, India, and plenty other 3rd world countries made us less necessary and less important. It was all bound to happen anyway.

4/8/2008 8:50:09 PM

BLEED TO BANKRUPTCY

my status name on here last year

4/8/2008 8:53:54 PM

Every empire falls. It's just that the US seems determined to go out being hated.

4/8/2008 8:54:31 PM

^ 'Cause everyone just loved the Romans, right?

4/8/2008 10:41:23 PM

Especially the Carthaginians.

4/8/2008 10:46:55 PM

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the country's not bankrupt. We are falling into a recession, but our debt is at manageable levels. We're just gonna have to make some hard choices about entitlements in the future.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html

And what makes you think that we're no longer the leader of the free world? Our economy and military dwarfs all other countries, and when Bush talks people listen, regardless of whether they want to or not.

4/8/2008 10:57:51 PM

Economy?

By what measure?

4/8/2008 11:03:43 PM

ummm, GDP maybe? I mean, it is the standard for measuring economies.

Quote :

" 2007 GDP in millions of USD as ranked by the IMF 1 United States 13,794,221 2 Japan 4,345,948 3 Germany 3,259,212 4 China 3,248,5222 5 United Kingdom 2,755,920 6 France 2,515,241 7 Italy 2,067,680 8 Spain 1,414,646 9 Canada 1,406,430 10 Brazil 1,295,355 "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Japan and Germany, our 2 biggest economic competitors, have a much higher debt liability than we do as a percentage of GDP. China will likely overtake them in size very soon, but they've got their own infrastructure problems to deal with.

[Edited on April 8, 2008 at 11:12 PM. Reason : 2]

4/8/2008 11:08:25 PM

Quote :

"It's absolutely amazing if you think about it. Bin Laden was able to troll the United States into chasing him around the world and into impossible, expensive quagmires like Iraq. Now the country has basically spent itself out of the #1 spot it once enjoyed. Things will only continue to get worse."

I think we did that one to ourselves, actually. You can argue he trolled us into getting involved in Afghanistan, that's hardly our Waterloo.

Iraq, on the other hand, you just can't put on bin Laden. That idiotic venture is totally home-grown. 9/11 was simply a convenient (and apparently, readily abused) excuse.

4/8/2008 11:15:20 PM

Bin Laden said himself that 9/11 was intended to start a war that would bankrupt the US just like the Afghan War had done to the Soviets.

He failed to mention any of the myriad other factors in the Soviet collapse.

4/8/2008 11:17:49 PM

Who needs to?

Looks like the rest pretty much takes care of itself.

4/8/2008 11:19:55 PM

Quote :

"the same policies and behaviors that led to this stinking mess to begin with"

blame america first

i havent been on tsb in a minute, has this anti american racist troll been suspended for even a day?

4/8/2008 11:32:01 PM

PRAWN STAR must be a special ed. student.

4/8/2008 11:44:54 PM

Like DrSteveChaos says, you can give credit to Bin Laden for the Afghanistan part, but we're really not spending a whole lot of money there compared to Iraq, for which only the administration is to blame. I suppose you could say that Bin Laden's plan failed...
Ahmet

4/8/2008 11:57:41 PM

no because if he had never attacked the US in 9/11 the ignorant public wouldn't have gone along with Iraq. And I say ignorant because you have to be a dumb fucking hick to think Iraq and Al Qaida are linked

4/9/2008 12:17:10 AM

And everybody just loves China, am I right, LostClues?

London:



Paris:



San Francisco:



You get the picture.

[Edited on April 9, 2008 at 12:19 AM. Reason : .]

4/9/2008 12:18:01 AM

Dude. Al qaeda is clearly linked to Iraq. Check it out:

It's
Really
Al
Qaeda

See?

4/9/2008 12:18:56 AM

Quote :

"PRAWN STAR must be a special ed. student."

Refute something I posted or go back to chit chat.

4/9/2008 12:20:26 AM

Quote :

"no because if he had never attacked the US in 9/11 the ignorant public wouldn't have gone along with Iraq. And I say ignorant because you have to be a dumb fucking hick to think Iraq and Al Qaida are linked"

I see where you're coming from, but considering there was no connection b/w Al Qaida and Iraq, it seems like he could've just invaded Iraq because of the bogey man had it not been for 9/11... I'd agree with you if you said the American public is to blame for giving so many votes to him in 2000, and electing him in 2004.
Ahmet

4/9/2008 12:23:29 AM

Quote :

"no because if he had never attacked the US in 9/11 the ignorant public wouldn't have gone along with Iraq. And I say ignorant because you have to be a dumb fucking hick to think Iraq and Al Qaida are linked"

Maybe. But the fact is, we have an administration who was pretty much set on "regime change" prior to 9/11. In that sense, it hardly seems fair to attribute to bin Laden what was effectively an opportunistic move by the administration - look for a reason to start the war they'd wanted to start well before they had an excuse.

4/9/2008 12:42:49 AM

True. Bin Laden was more of an enabler in that respect.

So, we retitle the thread:

Who thought boxcutters and some flight lessons . . . . . could enable the United States to bankrupt itself?

4/9/2008 12:45:39 AM

Quote :

"blame america first"

god i hate conservatives that say that...i mean its freaking common sense

4/9/2008 12:55:11 AM

So where does this notion come from that America is bankrupt, anyway?

4/9/2008 12:59:55 AM

Well.

If the OPEC bank ever opens up...

Count on it.

4/9/2008 1:32:17 AM

MOAR LIKE MORALLY BANKRUPT

LOL

4/9/2008 8:27:19 AM

OPEC bank?

The U.S. cannot go bankrupt because all our debts are denominated in dollars and we own the printing presses that make them. As such, if foreigners ever stop lending to us we can borrow from ourselves (print money) to keep making payments.

As such, there is no discernible scenario that could result in America's bankruptcy. Double digit inflation is possible, anyone remember the 1970s?

As for the OPEC bank idea, I no longer believe this would have an impact. Much of the reason the dollars has fallen so much over the past few years is because most countries have stopped building their reserves of dollars. In effect, the dollar is no longer a reserve currency, so that doomer scenario has already come to pass and the only effects have been unusually high commodity prices and booming U.S. exports.

4/9/2008 8:45:41 AM

generally negative personality: OMFG WE'RE BANKRUPT


generally positive personality: WTF ARE YOU GUYZ TALKING ABOUT


generally ignorant personality: god i hate conservatives that say that...i mean its freaking common sense

4/9/2008 9:03:14 AM

Quote :

"I say ignorant because you have to be a dumb fucking hick to think Iraq and Al Qaida are linked"

do you know what the word 'ignorant' means? it doesnt mean "dumb fucking hick"...it means basically 'ignoring' facts or not being aware of facts...facts that only the govt, etc could inform us of...but nice job taking another cheap shot at americans...DUMB FUCKING HICKS...how dare you not see through what the government told you when it was the consensus

Quote :

"i mean its freaking common sense"

its common sense that being in somebody's mythical "holy land" is good enough reason to justify them blowing themselves and others up all the time? kind of like how a chick wearing a slutty outfit is a good enough reason for her to be raped, right???

4/9/2008 9:09:05 AM

A short, short story:

Lius sat in his NCSU dorm room playing Zelda on his Wii, the controller balanced on precariously on his round belly. Growing boerd, he considered switching to virtual tennis, but decided he was not in the mood for physical activity. Instead, he rolled over to his $1,000 lap top and began to surf to MySpace when a headline on his iGoogle news gadget caught his eye. It was something about Iraq and terrorism. Thinking the article would be too long to read he decided to just reflect upon America's position in the world.

"We really are banktupt" he muttered to himself.

If he had time he might have cried, but his friends were knocking on the door. They were going to see how much beer a man could guzzle before either throwing up or going blind. Why not live it up before graduation? The party was going to stop in May when he had to get a job with just his college education. He decided he would blog about America's financial ruin later on TWW.

4/9/2008 9:57:38 AM

try to foreclose on our shit bitches... i dare you..

4/9/2008 10:17:26 AM

^^ ahahaha, I'm glad I decided to stroll through TSB today.

Here is a question: what are the practical differences between formal bankruptcy (such as it could actually apply to a government) and simply printing enough money to pay off the debt, but simultaneously scuffing up the economy or, depending on the circumstances, smashing it into a brick wall.

4/9/2008 10:40:43 AM

Actually

Lonesnark

If we print money to pay off the trillions owed in foreign debt, then our money loses value faster then a Mitsubishi automobile, requiring us to print even more money, making it lose even more value. We then end up defaulting on all loans and foreign investment in the US will cease.

Which wouldn't matter at this point any way, as all foreign investors would have long ago taken a write down on American assets.

Given that we're also primarily a services economy rather then a manufacturing one and currently run large trade deficits with everybody, life for you and I would be pretty bleak.

In fact, I don't even know why you would suggest such a retarded thing as there's real world (very recent) examples of what hyper inflation does to nation's economy.

As for anyone pointing to GDP as a measure of national wealth, I'd like to point out that government cannot currently pay off the national debt with 100% income dedicated to the effort.

4/9/2008 11:06:40 AM

Nope. It'd take about 4 years at current tax rates, which are historically low by comparison. And that's paying no post office employee, no members of the military, no retirees...

[Edited on April 9, 2008 at 12:16 PM. Reason : ...]

4/9/2008 12:15:13 PM

In my opinion Osama's 9/11 was a 100% success in terrorizing and effecting the lives of americans as well as polices of the US gov't.

4/9/2008 12:36:24 PM

its a good thing that's an opinion and not a fact though...

4/9/2008 1:28:36 PM

Quote :

"no because if he had never attacked the US in 9/11 the ignorant public wouldn't have gone along with Iraq. And I say ignorant because you have to be a dumb fucking hick to think Iraq and Al Qaida are linked"

We were close to war with Iraq numerous times in the 90s. It's ignorant revisionist thinking to tell yourself that there was no conflict with Iraq prior to 9/11. And I say ignorant because you have to be a dumb fucking hick to think that Iraq was a peaceful nation existing under the radar before Bush came to power.

4/9/2008 1:43:21 PM

Quote :

"And I say ignorant because you have to be a dumb fucking hick to think that Iraq was a peaceful nation existing under the radar before Bush came to power. "

Peaceful, maybe not. But stable, yes. Not to mention that Iraq WAS a major factor in the balance of power in the middle east, largely b/c of the dislike for Iranians and alqaeda. It's hard to envision Iraq becoming what the admin. wants it to become, regardless of how long we're there. More likely, its going to be another chapter in the age old folly that is american foreign policy. Build them up, just so they can become an even bigger headache decades down the road....one can argue that our support of the Mujahedeen during the afghan/soviet conflict was a major factor in bin laden/alqaeda becoming so powerful in the first place.

4/9/2008 2:26:30 PM

Agreed, although I'm more inclined to think that Iraq is being based on the German post-war model rather than the Afghan mistake of just letting a middleman give our money and weapons to whoever they please.

4/9/2008 2:31:15 PM

Quote :

"its a good thing that's an opinion and not a fact though..."

maybe you could explain how osama didn't succeed in 9/11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism#Key_criteria

Quote :

"Official definitions determine counter-terrorism policy and are often developed to serve it. Most government definitions outline the following key criteria: target, objective, motive, perpetrator, and legitimacy or legality of the act."

Quote :

"Violence – According to Walter Laqueur of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, "the only general characteristic of terrorism generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence."

- guys hijacking airplanes w/ box cutters and ramming into two building killing 1000's Check

Quote :

"Psychological impact and fear – The attack was carried out in such a way as to maximize the severity and length of the psychological impact. Each act of terrorism is a “performance,” devised to have an impact on many large audiences. Terrorists also attack national symbols to show their power and to shake the foundation of the country or society they are opposed to."

- Americans afraid to fly, paranoid about islamic people and future terrorist attacks. Paranoid to the point where they even submit their civil liberties to the gov't in the name of national security and safety. Check

Quote :

"Deliberate targeting of non-combatants – It is commonly held that the distinctive nature of terrorism lies in its intentional and specific selection of civilians as direct targets. Specifically, the criminal intent is shown when babies, children, mothers, and the elderly are murdered, or injured, and put in harms way. Much of the time, the victims of terrorism are targeted not because they are threats, but because they are specific "symbols, tools, animals or corrupt beings"

- see point one above. Check

Quote :

"Political Terrorism – Violent criminal behaviour designed primarily to generate fear in the community, or substantial segment of it, for political purposes."

I'd say he exceeded in killing innocent civilians, inciting fear, and interrupting the normal functionality of the US economy/gov't pre 9/11

4/9/2008 2:34:54 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to point out that government cannot currently pay off the national debt with 100% income dedicated to the effort."

Neither can 90% of the governments out there. Our debt is not precariously large as a portion of our GDP. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, other economic powers such as Japan and Germany are in much worse shape with respect to debt.

4/9/2008 2:36:54 PM

That'll teach'em to try and take over the world.

That's OUR turf.

Fuckers.

4/9/2008 2:40:08 PM

Quote :

"Agreed, although I'm more inclined to think that Iraq is being based on the German post-war model rather than the Afghan mistake of just letting a middleman give our money and weapons to whoever they please. "

I too hope they have learned a lesson from the past, but it wasn't just the armament in the afghan/soviet war. The fact that we were seen as supporting the Mujahedeen paved the way for the taliban to seize power after the war. In the middle east, an american supported gov is usually seen as one of the worst things possible, and it's going to be hard to separate whatever gov happens to be in power when we leave from preceived american support.

[Edited on April 9, 2008 at 2:45 PM. Reason : .]

4/9/2008 2:41:10 PM

Quote :

"The fact that we were seen as supporting the Mujahedeen paved the way for the taliban to seize power after the war."

How so? I thought that it was pretty clear that we abandoned the country after the Soviet withdrawal. The only common thread that I can think of is Pakistani ISI playing a role in giving out our money and cash to the Mujahedeen and later supporting the Taliban.

Quote :

"In the middle east, an american supported gov is usually seen as one of the worst things possible, and it's going to be hard to separate whatever gov happens to be in power when we leave from preceived american support."

I'll go along with that. I feel like Iraq is going to be another Germany in this regard as well in that we will have long term military bases there for years to come.

4/9/2008 2:47:55 PM

god conservatives views on 9/11 and the iraq war perplexes the shit out of me...its like they live in an alternate universe or something

4/9/2008 7:53:37 PM

A good poster would follow that with an explanation.

4/9/2008 8:32:09 PM

we'll go bomb those terrorists and show them we are USA #1. They can't get us!
Don't mess with Texas.

4/9/2008 9:29:15 PM

Quote :

"Japan and Germany, our 2 biggest economic competitors, have a much higher debt liability than we do as a percentage of GDP. China will likely overtake them in size very soon, but they've got their own infrastructure problems to deal with."

Oh Lord, thank your lucky stars that Japan, Germany, and the United Kingdom exist. These are countries that mirror a variety of the US policies but from the beginning were not hated by the world. The entire USA #1 thing would not work if we did not have powerful (and popular) friends as well.

I'm really not kidding, if it were not for this, it would be the US versus the world. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Thank God for Japan. Germany too. If only Iraq could enter the club now...

The first nation to enter the top brass of the economic powers and not completely match our ideological standpoint is China, and you know how well we're doing with that relationship.

No kidding, a very great danger that nobody gives much credit to is the possibility of regime change in such nations that turns them completely against the US. Japan could very soon call for an election of the lower house, which would result in the DPJ taking power. This is highly likely - and will not bode well for us.

4/9/2008 10:18:20 PM