somebody was telling me that they are not high and its just that inflation has taken over. someone else also told me that they will be going down in the next year. are these statements true? I always thought that gas was really high and it was because demand and supply not inflation.

4/22/2008 1:57:34 PM

they are too high

that's the end of my thoughts on this

they need to come the fuck back down

4/22/2008 2:00:03 PM

either that or we need to re-think urban planning

NAW DOG

4/22/2008 2:00:41 PM

they suck

4/22/2008 2:01:44 PM

^^

if you're insinuating that I take CAT...

no

not that CAT now, not the redrawn CAT 2100

not going to happen

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 2:03 PM. Reason : ...]

4/22/2008 2:03:19 PM

It's both a factor of supply/demand and inflation.

Inflation is just the devaluation of a currency which makes goods and services appear more expensive.


Example:

$1 = 2 loaves of bread = 1 gallon of gas

now say that inflation kicks in because of our horrible fiscal policy and our currency is devalued against other foreign currencies to the point where

$1 = 1 loaf of bread = 1/2 gallon of gas

Although the ratio of bread:gas still equals 2:1 our dollar buys less of them.

However, in terms of bread, the gas prices have stayed the exact same.


The problem is that our currency is cheap and has no backing. It isn't put against something valuable like gold.

If you look at the price of oil in terms of gold, for example... the price has not gone up all that much at all. It's just that now, our dollar buys less gold.



[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 2:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 2:20:12 PM

lol ron paul gold standard.

4/22/2008 2:24:28 PM

gas prices right now are at historical highs, with and without inflation.
Prior to just a few weeks ago, the late 70's had the highest inflation-adjusted gas prices. But as we breached ~$3.20 and now $3.50/gallon, that is higher per gallon than it has ever been, including adjusting for inflation. see the red line here for 2008-inflation-adjusted dollars. the black line is what people actually paid at the pump.


http://www.fintrend.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp

on that same topic, it was just yesterday I heard on the radio that the national average went up 16 cents in the last two weeks, just as I passed a sign for $3.45/gal. Then today, the very same place was up another 10cents to $3.55..... so make that 26cents in 2 weeks....

also, anyone who "told you that they will be going down in the next year" is just blowing smoke. They may, but whoever is telling you that has no idea if they will or won't

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 2:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 2:26:52 PM

according to your own graph, 1918 had the highest inflation adjusted gas prices

4/22/2008 2:28:29 PM

Quote :

"But as we breached ~$3.20 and now $3.50/gallon, that is higher per gallon than it has ever been, including adjusting for inflation."

4/22/2008 2:29:38 PM

^^ yeah, i see that. i didn't make the graph.
But i guess anyone everyone who makes these statements are generally talking about "modern era". I don't think it's really fair to compare prices now to 1918 when there were very few cars, relatively, around. Even so, it looks like within weeks we'll even break the 1918 point

4/22/2008 2:35:44 PM

that graft looks like the nominal price of gas is now surpassing the price of gas based on inflation.

4/22/2008 2:36:57 PM

I believe this to be a speculative bubble. As such, I believe the bubble will pop sooner or later. Regretfully, it has a bit higher to go before that happens. The higher it goes the sooner it will crash, but this could still be more than a year off if we are unlucky.

But, I do feel safe saying that in five to ten years gasoline will get back to the $2 range as the dollar recovers and new supplies come online.

4/22/2008 2:37:41 PM

^ Seconded.

They hit a huge ass oil well in N. Dakota as well... supposed to be the 2nd largest on earth. Now if the militant hippies let us drill, we'll be enjoying Venezuela-esque $0.37/gal gasoline.

4/22/2008 2:43:09 PM

yeah n. dakota sucks anyway

4/22/2008 2:46:51 PM

Quote :

"They hit a huge ass oil well in N. Dakota as well... supposed to be the 2nd largest on earth."

Um...no. Possibly the second largest in America. Definitely not the second largest on earth.

4/22/2008 2:53:31 PM

^^^And what technique do you suppose they use to get this oil? It isn't the hippies blocking this, the oil field has been known for a long time, but the absence of the technology to do it.

4/22/2008 2:56:24 PM

son of a bitch! That's what the most industrialized nation on the face of the planet is missing... Drilling machines. Yeah I know Venezuela has em... and Iraq has em, but son of a bitch we can't get one around here?

4/22/2008 2:58:25 PM

And with current US consumption, that entire oil well would be gone before a year is out.

4/22/2008 2:59:01 PM

makin up stats today?

4/22/2008 2:59:21 PM

Gas is 8 to 10 bucks in europe.

4/22/2008 3:01:42 PM

us consumption is hardly the tipping point that a lot of folks make it out to be

sure we need to all reduce consumption and create "alternative energy" but a huge portion of the problem is developing world needs coming online

4/22/2008 3:02:28 PM

also, we don't allow companies to make refineries or drill for oil in this country. Especially in Alaska. We have no one even living there. And that would free us of the necessary evil of paying off dictatorships in the Middle East for their oil.

The problem: Environmentalism and liberals

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:04 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 3:04:21 PM

Quote :

"son of a bitch! That's what the most industrialized nation on the face of the planet is missing... Drilling machines. Yeah I know Venezuela has em... and Iraq has em, but son of a bitch we can't get one around here?"

It maybe shocking to you, but oil doesn't flow around in huge underground oceans. It is trapped in rock and aquifers. It just so happens that the oil, in the north Dakota oil field is trapped in non-pourous rock. Meaning, there is no real way to get at it. Until we can develop the proper technology, the amount of energy required to drill the Bakken Formation will far exceed the returns.

Quote :

"Especially in Alaska. We have no one even living there. And that would free us of the necessary evil of paying off dictatorships in the Middle East for their oil."

The Oil in ANWR is a thick tarry oil. And is only sutible for the use in asphalt products. Furthermore, none of that oil would come to America since it is far cheaper to send it to Japan then to America's refineries (shipping, not refining costs).

Quote :

"The problem: Environmentalism and liberalsreality "

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:08 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 3:05:54 PM

^^ that's not exactly true. We produce more than 5 million barrels of oil per day, a lot of it coming from Alaska. We also refine more than 20 million barrels of oil per day on average.

Environmental laws have prevented companies from drilling offshore and in national parks, but there are no state or national laws against drilling on your own private property.

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:08 PM. Reason : 2]

4/22/2008 3:07:54 PM

When was the last refinery built in the US? When was the last Nuclear power plant built in the US?

4/22/2008 3:09:11 PM

and how is that germane?

4/22/2008 3:10:02 PM

Quote :

"makin up stats today?"

Apprently I'm the only one who reads TIME magazine, and also the only one who realizes that the US consumes an average of 19 million barrels A DAY. Do the math

4/22/2008 3:11:19 PM

Who gives a fuck how long 1 well would last? We have thousands of wells. Thats a meaningless statistic.

nutsmackr

Quote :

"The Oil in ANWR is a thick tarry oil. And is only sutible for the use in asphalt products. Furthermore, none of that oil would come to America since it is far cheaper to send it to Japan then to America's refineries (shipping, not refining costs)."

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this is complete horseshit, since the majority of your posts are horseshit and/or misinformation.

4/22/2008 3:14:45 PM

Quote :

"also, we don't allow companies to make refineries or drill for oil in this country. Especially in Alaska. We have no one even living there. And that would free us of the necessary evil of paying off dictatorships in the Middle East for their oil. The problem: Environmentalism and liberals "

FUCK the Environment and fuck the whales!!!! I am definitely no green environmentalist but you must be pretty arrogant to just easily write off any form of conservation.

4/22/2008 3:15:24 PM

Quote :

"I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this is complete horseshit, since the majority of your posts are horseshit and/or misinformation."

find one thing to dispute my statements.

4/22/2008 3:16:31 PM

Quote :

"that graft looks like the nominal price of gas is now surpassing the price of gas based on inflation."

that's because the graph is adjusted to 2008 dollars. Therefore, by definition, in 2008 the Nominal price and the Inflation Adjust Price are the same.

4/22/2008 3:17:37 PM

Quote :

"The Oil in ANWR is a thick tarry oil. And is only sutible for the use in asphalt products."

Well, this can be disputed quite easily through the application of Cracking. Heavy crude can be turned into whatever we want with varying degrees of difficulty. Yes, we would prefer to use it as it comes to make asphalt, but if we must the chains can be shortenned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracking_(chemistry)

4/22/2008 3:20:30 PM

yes, and cracking is a more expensive process to under go and would make getting the oil from ANWR to use as gasoline, or home heating oil too costly to be effective.

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:24 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 3:23:22 PM

Wait. So, you're telling me that ANWR oil cannot be drilled and then cracked for $3.50 a gallon? Are you insane?

4/22/2008 3:27:03 PM

Quote :

"Furthermore, none of that oil would come to America since it is far cheaper to send it to Japan then to America's refineries (shipping, not refining costs)."

There is already a pipeline from Prudhoe bay into the US, called the Tans-Alaska pipeline. It is being used to less than half of capacity. If ANWR were developed, they would simply tap into that pipeline, sending a significant portion of the oil (if not all of it) into the US.

4/22/2008 3:27:06 PM

Face it nutsmackr, you're a hack and you have zero credibility in the SB because you post so much bullshit.

You don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.

4/22/2008 3:28:04 PM

Yes, I make up bullshit. That is why all the information I have posted so far comes from the GAO.

Suck on a nut bitch.

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1999/rc99191.pdf

Quote :

"Wait. So, you're telling me that ANWR oil cannot be drilled and then cracked for $3.50 a gallon? Are you insane?"

we can't even do that with sweet crude, what makes you think we can do it with sour crude?

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:30 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 3:29:29 PM

Quote :

"FUCK the Environment and fuck the whales!!!! I am definitely no green environmentalist but you must be pretty arrogant to just easily write off any form of conservation."

Who said I was against conservation? I certainly think we should conserve. However I think that we should act rationally on these issues. Not building another refinery since the 70s is completely idiotic. And it's because of the environmental groups who would have us returned to the stone age.

Quote :

"Apprently I'm the only one who reads TIME magazine"

Oh this time magazine? Yeah, you can have it, their agendas, and their utter shamelessness.



[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 3:31:57 PM

^^way to post a link to a 10 year old study on Prudhoe Bay when we are talking about ANWR.




[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:38 PM. Reason : 2]

4/22/2008 3:34:52 PM

Quote :

"There is already a pipeline from Prudhoe bay into the US, called the Tans-Alaska pipeline. It is being used to less than half of capacity. If ANWR were developed, they would simply tap into that pipeline, sending a significant portion of the oil (if not all of it) into the US."

It is still far cheaper to ship that oil to asia, since the Trans-Alaska pipeline charges a tariff and there is no tariff to ship to Asia.

Quote :

"^^way to post a link to a 10 year old study on Prudhoe Bay when we are talking about ANWR. "

The realities of the study haven't changed one iota.

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 3:35:56 PM

You should read your own link. From the last year they studied, 1998, more than 95% of the oil produced in Alaska's north shore went to the US, and less than 5% went to Asia combined.

So are you ready to admit that what you posted is bullshit, or shall I go on?

4/22/2008 3:39:56 PM

Quote :

"we can't even do that with sweet crude, what makes you think we can do it with sour crude?"

You mean the stuff we get from Venezuela? We have lots of upgraders and advanced cracking refineries in the United States specifically built to refine sour heavy crudes. What makes you think we don't?

4/22/2008 3:44:45 PM

^^You realize that we had an export ban until 1995, right? The amount leaving now is even more

^that doesn't take into effect the pipeline tariffs, which by last reckoning was around $3.00 a barell shipped through the trans-alaska pipeline and of course, the tariffs to for the pipelines feeding into the Caribean are even more with the added shipping costs.

4/22/2008 3:49:48 PM

I also haven't seen anything that says the oil in Alaska is excessively thick and tarry. It is certainly not in the link nutsmackr provided. Really, he's the one that claimed it could only be used for asphalt products, I'd like to see him post some evidence of that.

4/22/2008 3:50:31 PM

The sweet is gone baby.

http://detnews.com/2005/business/0505/02/biz-166882.htm

Quote :

"Oil companies are betting that heavy oil in Alaska will result in a big payoff. Heavy oil, which has the consistency of thick molasses, lies in sandstone above the huge reservoir of light oil that has been flowing down the trans-Alaska pipeline since 1977. With that reservoir being drawn down, BP Group PLC and ConocoPhillips Co. are turning to hard-to-pump heavy oil to extend the life of Alaska's largest oil field. --- Until recently, the companies have been satisfied with light oil -- the more easily pumped crude that has been the lifeblood of Prudhoe Bay for nearly 30 years. With more than 213,500 acres and more than 1,000 oil wells, Prudhoe Bay is the largest field in the North Slope, the large oil-producing region along Alaska's northern coastline. But the huge oil field -- originally estimated at 25 billion barrels -- is being drawn down. Production is falling by about 3.5 percent a year, and the pipeline now carries about half what it did in the 1980s. Alaska oil accounts for about 17 percent of total crude oil production in the United States. "

Here is more information on exports

Quote :

"ANS exports totaling 36,000 bd began in 1996; they grew to 66,500 bd in 1997, dipped slightly to 52,900 in 1998 and rose to a high of 74,000 bd in 1999. According to unpublished DOE figures, during 1999, Korea (50%), Japan (36%) and China (12%) imported nearly all ANS exports. The list of customers has remained the same since 1996."

http://www.ncseonline.org/nle/crsreports/natural/nrgen-25.cfm

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 3:57 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 3:54:52 PM

bush just needs to make a speech this afternoon saying we are going to open up the largest drilling operation in US history.

watch the price plummet to $1.50 a gallon in a matter of weeks.

4/22/2008 3:56:48 PM

^^I love how you link to shit that completely refutes your statements:

Quote :

"In 1995, legislation was enacted permitting export. Relatively small amounts - never more than 7% - of Alaskan crude have been sold to Korea, Japan and China. Korea imports about half of this oil."

And you're talking about Prudhoe Bay again. The proposed field in ANWR is 60 miles east.




[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 4:00 PM. Reason : 2]

4/22/2008 3:58:00 PM

How do you propose they get that oil out of anwr? TAPS does not go to ANWR, it goes to Purdoe Bay. the only reason why exports of Alaskan oil never materialized, is not because it is more efficient to ship to the continental US, but because of the export ban that lasted until 1995 and now the sweet crude of purdoe bay is basically gone.

If you want to argue that we need to drill anwr for national security reasons, you must guarantee that the oil goes to america and is not exported. none of the oil companies are willing to do that.


p.s. the big item you should be pushing for is the national petroleum preserve, not anwr

[Edited on April 22, 2008 at 4:15 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2008 4:03:30 PM

look at all that land. ain't that some shit that we're paying this much and refuse to drill?

too many nutsmakers in this country

4/22/2008 4:15:42 PM