http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/24/license.plate.ap/index.html

Quote :

" MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- Florida drivers can order more than 100 specialty license plates celebrating everything from manatees to the Miami Heat, but one now under consideration would be the first in the nation to explicitly promote a specific religion. art.licenseplate.ap.jpg A proposed vanity plate in Florida would feature a cross and the words, "I Believe." The Florida Legislature is considering a specialty plate with a design that includes a Christian cross, a stained-glass window and the words "I Believe." Rep. Edward Bullard, the plate's sponsor, said people who "believe in their college or university" or "believe in their football team" already have license plates they can buy. The new design is a chance for others to put a tag on their cars with "something they believe in," he said. If the plate is approved, Florida would become the first state to have a license plate featuring a religious symbol that's not part of a college logo. Approval would almost certainly face a court challenge. The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it "sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state" and, second, gives the "appearance that the state is endorsing a particular religious preference," said Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida. The "I Believe" license plate still has a way to go before it reaches the roads. The proposal is part of a package of license plates being debated in the Senate and ready for a floor vote. In the House, the bill that would authorize the plate has passed one committee 8-2. The Legislature's annual session ends May 2. Some lawmakers say the state should be careful. Rep. Kelly Skidmore said she is a Roman Catholic and goes to Mass on Sundays, but she believes the "I Believe" plate is inappropriate for the government to produce. "It's not a road I want to go down. I don't want to see the Star of David next. I don't want to see a Torah next. None of that stuff is appropriate to me," said Skidmore, a Democrat who voted against the plate in committee. "I just believe that." Florida's specialty license plates require the payment of additional fees, some of which go to causes the plates endorse. One plate approved in 2004, displaying the motto "Family First," funds Sheridan House, which provides family programs but also sees its purpose as "sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Bible" and "information about the Christian faith." The bill creating the "I Believe" plate would also create an "In God We Trust" plate to benefit the children of soldiers and law enforcement officers whose parents have died. It also could face opposition as a violation of the separation of church and state. An Indiana plate with the same "In God We Trust" phrase has been challenged by the ACLU, but the courts so far have deemed it legal, arguing that it is comparable with other specialty plates. This isn't the first time a Florida license plate design has created religious controversy. In 1999, lawmakers approved a bright yellow "Choose Life" license plate with a picture of a boy and girl. It raises money for agencies that encourage women to not have abortions. That generated a court battle, with abortion rights groups saying the plate had religious overtones. But it was ruled legal, and about a dozen states now have similar plates. A "Trust God" license plate was proposed in Florida in 2003. It would have given money to Christian radio stations and charities, but was never produced. Earlier this year, a legislative committee was shown an image of a "Trinity" plate that showed a Christlike figure with his arms outstretched. It and two other plates were voted down. The group asking for the "I Believe" plate, the Orlando-based nonprofit Faith in Teaching Inc., supports faith-based schools activities. The plate would cost drivers an extra $25 annual fee. Approving the plate could open the state to legal challenges, according to Josie Brown, who teaches constitutional law at the University of South Carolina. And it's not certain who would win. "It would be an interesting close call," Brown said. Simon, of the ACLU, said approval of the plate could prompt many other groups to seek their own designs, and they could claim discrimination if their plans were rejected. That could even allow the Ku Klux Klan to get a plate, Simon said. Bullard, the plate's sponsor, isn't sure all groups should be able to express their preference. If atheists came up with an "I Don't Believe" plate, for example, he would probably oppose it. "

Now, I'm not against a Christian tag, if equals are equals and others can have their religions represented as well. However, the sponsor doesn't think that's 'fair.' The government should also make the religious groups that want this front the entire cost of production (same with any custom tags to be honest).

Also, I don't believe that NCSU exists, I know it exists. Some people are idiots.

4/24/2008 9:16:13 AM

The hypocricy of religious people is not a surprise.

4/24/2008 10:32:34 AM

Quote :

"That could even allow the Ku Klux Klan to get a plate, Simon said."

except that the KKK typically doesn't go for conspicuity unless they're in a large group. No KKK member would put that on their plate, it makes them a target.

4/24/2008 10:42:13 AM

Yeah, I see KKK plates going over really well in Miami.

4/24/2008 12:10:57 PM

doesn't nc already have these?

(oh wait, this is the actual official plate, not "novelty" plates or plate frames)

I was gonna say,

every time I'm in line at the plate office off buck jones

I'm looking at the novelty plates and frames on the back wall

a dozen ncsu, a couple carolina, a couple duke, a dozen american flags, a dozen cakkalackky,

but then also,

a dozen crosses, jesuses, gods, "i love god", "jesus is my copilot", "god bless america", "jesus saves",

absolutely no stars of david, star and crescent, ankh, pentagram, kokopelli, lotus flower, or spaghethys

absolutely no yin and yang, no flaming chalice, khanda, menorah, swastika (no nazi), sun cross, or torii

I mean, I know this is the south, but can't we try a little harder to separate church and state? please?

either no religious ANYTHING should be ANYWHERE NEAR government, or EVERY religious thing should be included

(with affirmative action for smaller religions, of course -- if there are 300 religions, christians get 1/300th of the space)

Quote :

"The hypocricy of religious people is not a surprise."

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 12:24 PM. Reason : ]

4/24/2008 12:20:26 PM

Aren't those just decorative plates to put on the front and not the official NCDMV ones?

4/24/2008 12:29:07 PM

Quote :

"(oh wait, this is the actual official plate, not "novelty" plates or plate frames)"

yeah, it'd be much worse if they were official -- which is what they're trying to do in florida

I'm just saying that even being novelty plates, what kind of message does it send? (hint: "nc is for christians")

who is selling those novelty frames? it's the state, right?

so we've got a state run store that only sells christian religious items

now, that might not be "congress making a law", but it sure respects the establishment of christianity

I call bullshit

not only on this florida stink

but on ANY AND ALL RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR



[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 12:44 PM. Reason : ]

4/24/2008 12:38:06 PM

This is referring to real plates, not novelty plates. These are similar to getting custom messages on your license.


You give the DMV money, they give part of that money to the beneficiary of the tag.

4/24/2008 12:43:52 PM

Quote :

"getting custom messages on your license."

that's been ruled as government speech (I think)

iow, you can't put "fuck you" on your vanity plate

4/24/2008 12:46:28 PM

thats correct, this is a bit different though, considering this is a plate that conveys a message (christianity, blue ridge mountains, ncsu, etc.)

4/24/2008 12:49:08 PM

I wonder how'd they feel about the star of david being on government plates, or even better- arabic calligraphy.

4/24/2008 12:53:34 PM

Already addressed in the article:

Quote :

"Bullard, the plate's sponsor, isn't sure all groups should be able to express their preference. If atheists came up with an "I Don't Believe" plate, for example, he would probably oppose it. "

4/24/2008 12:56:09 PM

Quote :

"that's been ruled as government speech (I think) iow, you can't put "fuck you" on your vanity plate"

You can put whatever you want on your plate as long it is not obscenity. It is protected speech.

4/24/2008 1:08:54 PM

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/emailrepresentative.aspx?MemberId=4230&SessionId=57

4/24/2008 3:04:26 PM

I remember a couple years ago a guy in Virgina wasn't allowed to have a zyklonb license plate because that is what they used in the showers of concentration camps.

4/24/2008 3:24:00 PM

lovely
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/florida_license_plates_redux.php

Quote :

"Rep. Kelly Skidmore said she is a Roman Catholic and goes to Mass on Sundays, but she believes the "I Believe" plate is inappropriate for the government to produce. "It's not a road I want to go down. I don't want to see the Star of David next. I don't want to see a Torah next. None of that stuff is appropriate to me," said Skidmore, a Democrat who voted against the plate in committee. "I just believe that.""

4/24/2008 10:57:20 PM

Of course, there should be no official religious plates.

It's just a gimmick anyway.

Folks can show their religious shit with all sorts of other shit on their cars. What does this show? I love Jesus so much that I pay a yearly fee to violate the notion of a separate church and state...?

Whatev. Get that stupid fishy thing, and when you sell your car to a differently-minded person, they can add legs.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 11:53 PM. Reason : sss]

4/24/2008 11:50:35 PM

they need one with this

4/24/2008 11:59:57 PM

Quote :

"who is selling those novelty frames? it's the state, right?"

The license plate office at South Hills Mall is a private contractor. I don't know the exact relationship between the contractor and the state, but I seriously doubt the state is getting any money from the novelty plates (other than tax money).

4/25/2008 7:18:46 AM

The article mentions they have to be approved by law, therefore I'm guessing the state invests a bit of money into making them and distributing them.

4/25/2008 8:12:31 AM

So much hostility against Christianity...

Come on folks. It's just a license plate. I can see why some people hate Christianity, but shouldn't we be more worried about gay baby blue UNC paraphernalia on cars

4/25/2008 9:30:06 AM

It's not against Christianity at all. The guy who sponsored the bill promoting christian tags said he didn't support anyone other than christianity getting plates. Do you not see an issue with this? When the government has to pass laws for these things, and refuses to pass anything creating tags for people other than christians do you think that shows favoritism for a religion in the government? Do you not believe that is a violation of the constitution? I'd be for the tags if they left it 'open' so that anyone could have the tag they wanted created (within reason, of course) but I can't support something that uses taxpayer money that selects only one religious group and promotes it.

4/25/2008 9:35:06 AM

^^
what hostility against christianity?


are you saying that advocating for the separation of church and state resulting in less "promotion" of christianity is hostile?

4/25/2008 10:24:35 AM