State Employees Association of North Carolina Joins SEIU in Historic Union Vote

Quote :

"GREENVILLE, N.C., May 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- On May 3, the State Employees Association of North Carolina (SEANC) voted to affiliate with the Service Employees International Union (SEIU). The SEANC convention included 671 elected delegates representing SEANC's 55,000 state employee members across the state. Nearly 80 percent, or 524 delegates, voted to affiliate with SEIU. 'This vote marks the largest union victory ever for working people across the South -- especially in North Carolina, which previously had the lowest rate of unionization in the country,' said Dana Cope, SEANC's executive director. North Carolina currently lags far behind the rest of the country when it comes to public employee pay and benefits. North Carolina ranks 35th in public employee pay, 45th for family health care coverage (the 5th worst state) and 30th in pension benefits. As a result, many state employees can't afford to remain in state government. Turnover costs climbed from $330 million in 2005 to $362 million in 2006. By combining SEIU's expertise with SEANC's strength, state employees will be better able to partner with the state to improve retention. This will help ensure that more state resources are focused on improving our roads and bridges, strengthening our higher education system, keeping our communities safe and protecting children and the elderly. 'Both SEANC and SEIU members share a deep commitment to building a country that works for everyone and by coming together, we have a chance to make that dream a reality,' said SEIU President Andy Stern. Uniting with SEIU will also help SEANC build a national presence to advocate for North Carolina and ensure that our communities get their share of funding for critical state services like transportation, health and human services and corrections. SEANC, SEIU Local 2008, is the South's leading state employee association with 55,000 members strong. With 1.9 million members, SEIU is the fastest-growing union in North America and includes over one million public employees who have united to improve their lives and the services they provide. SOURCE Service Employees International Union"

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/prnewswire/press_releases/North_Carolina/2008/05/06/DC21434

Quote :

"North Carolina is the only state that expressly ban state and local governments from entering into collective bargaining deals with their employees."

http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/2836939/

A big step toward repeal of G.S. 95-98--one of SEANC's top ten policy objectives. We'll see what happens.

5/8/2008 5:19:23 AM

We are the only state, if memory serves correctly, that will not allow collective bargaining for State employees.

5/8/2008 9:44:45 AM

Damn, I wish I could say so much....

...I don't want to jeopardize myself, though.

5/8/2008 11:05:25 AM

SEANC: Proposal was not bribery

Quote :

"An attorney for a state workers' group said a proposal to drop a lawsuit was not bribery. At a hearing in Wake County Superior Court this morning, John K. Wiles argued that an attorney for the State Employees Association of North Carolina was not trying to bribe an attorney for Richard Moore when he said it would drop a lawsuit if Moore backed a bill. Wiles argued that the proposal was standard 'political bargaining.' He said that kind of back-and-forth is 'goes on all the time' in a democracy. 'It's messy, but we happen to think it's the best way to run a country,' he said. 'It's a lot better than what's going on in Iraq, where people shoot each other to settle things.' Wiles said the offer was not a bribe, since Moore's support of the bill would not be part of his 'official duties' as state treasurer. He also argued that while such support would not have been a likely outcome of the trial, it was still a legitimate bargaining chip. 'It's simply a bargain for resolution in a civil lawsuit,' he said. 'Lawsuits are settled all the time on terms that neither party could have gotten if they had pursued the lawsuit all the way to final judgment.'"

http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/seanc_proposal_was_not_bribery

6/12/2008 6:05:48 PM

"Bribery? Aw, hell, that weren't bribery. Shucks, even if it were bribery, it ain't like we're all out there shootin' folks, and whatnot!"

6/12/2008 7:01:46 PM

^ Yeah, that was a boneheaded remark by SEANC's attorney, wasn't it? I don't think his false analogies will help their cause.

6/12/2008 7:31:45 PM

yeah a union that's what NC needs! This will surely help the growth in our state, lets face it NC is growing at such a slow rate! People are leaving NC all the time to go get high paying unionized jobs in places like Michigan, New Jersey and Ohio... getting the union here will surely stop the flow of North Carolinians having to leave our poor state to search for work in bustling areas controlled by the unions.

unions are stupid, case closed, we have OSHA now, state workers are well compensated, get BENEFITS that most of us in the private sector dream about and if state workers don't like their jobs they can quit them and join the rest of us in the real world.

6/12/2008 8:05:26 PM

^ If you don't like unions, that's fine. I'm not a huge fan of modern-day unions myself for a number of reasons.

But I don't agree with a government outright banning its employees from collective bargaining with itself and local governments. And you are simply wrong that "state workers are well compensated"--a recent market study of NCSU employees found that many were grossly underpaid. Some employees are receiving tens of thousands of dollars to bring their salaries to at least within 90% of the market rate.

Here's evidence:

N.C. state employees want equal pay raise footing with teachers

Quote :

"But state government is also losing workers because of wages that haven't kept place with inflation, often turning agencies into training grounds for less skilled workers who then move into private industry, employees advocates argue. The average worker turnover rate was 12 percent during 2004-05, said Rep. Linda Coleman, D-Wake, a former state human resources director, and could cost the state $330 million annually, according to one estimate."

http://www2.nccommerce.com/eclipsfiles/14025.pdf

And SEANC makes the following argument:

Quote :

"Removing the ban on public sector collective bargaining will have positive effects for not only public employees, but for state and local government as well. Consequently, the citizens of North Carolina will also benefit greatly from passage of these bills. Published studies that compare the 50 states show that where union membership is high among public employees, which is usually synonymous with the existence of collective bargaining rights, the following correlations occur: * Employees' wages and benefits are higher * Turnover is lower * The government does not employ as many people for a given population Lower employee turnover would be a boon to North Carolina's taxpayers. In fact, in 2005, North Carolina's taxpayers paid $330 million to pay for state employee turnover costs alone. Governments keep more experienced employees and save on the cost of training new employees. More experienced employees deliver better services to citizens. Lower turnover and employment size means the costs of higher salaries and benefits are offset. All North Carolinians are winners."

http://www.seanc.org/site/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&filename=collectivebarg.html

While I can't vouch for SEANC's numbers, it's a well-known fact that turnover has a cost. In an entity as large as North Carolina's government, it's not hard to believe that turnover cost is significant.

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:19 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2008 1:10:25 AM

wait a second.

hooksaw is FOR unionization?

i'm for it too

but a friend of mine is on the rotten end of a union in massachusetts: basically he and his fiance lived in chapel hill where was a manager at the unc library for a number of years (between 3 and 5, can't remember). anyhow, his fiance got into a university in massachusetts for a phd and he moved up there with her. unfortunately when he looked for work at the public university system in massachusetts, he found that all the library jobs were union and that a seniority system was in effect, such that he could never even be considered for a library job because someone already in the union got it before him.

he ended up having to work at a cafeteria instead, just to get into the system and gain some seniority to be able to apply for a library job.

that said, a modest and well-controlled union can be a good thing and i have hopes that gov't employees in this state will have the opportunity.

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:20 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2008 1:14:33 AM

he can speak for himself but "I'm not a huge fan of modern-day unions myself for a number of reasons." is what he said, he just opposes government mandated bans

6/13/2008 1:17:13 AM

^^ FAIL.

^ Got it on the first try.

6/13/2008 1:19:47 AM

wait. what? i was just pleasantly surprised. man i can't even compliment you, it seems.

i read what you had said in the thread and agreed with the majority.

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:23 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2008 1:22:22 AM

^ Um. . .nice edit. PASS on the latter edit.

Still FAIL on the former.

PS: It's "fiancée"--FYI.

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 1:27 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2008 1:25:54 AM

well, i was typing the edit while you two replied. i honestly thought i should refine my message a bit. i was surprised anyone had already replied honestly.

6/13/2008 1:29:13 AM

Understood.

6/13/2008 1:30:13 AM

Quote :

"he found that all the library jobs were union and that a seniority system was in effect, such that he could never even be considered for a library job because someone already in the union got it before him."

a lot of people who i've worked with over the last few years have moved down from the northeast because unions have made it so hard for them to get work

6/13/2008 1:32:58 AM

an aside: apparently the public universities in massachusetts are in terrible shape too. be thankful for what you have/had in the unc system.

6/13/2008 1:34:49 AM

BTW, the difference in open shop and union shop should be well noted here, too--it's quite a significant difference. In any event, it sure seems that a lot of people come here from the North for whatever reason.

BTW, I often hear them mention things like the "mild temperatures." Yeah? Just wait 'til summer, Yankee!

6/13/2008 2:02:59 AM

unions are strong in seattle. and WA in general.

i cant say they have any deleterious effect. its a good system. prevailing wage is a good thing.

we also have the highest minimum wage of any state. 8-something an hour...

no state income tax. property taxes in this county are teh suck, but hey. cant have everything.

i really can't complain. we have a shit ton of services here. even the panhandlers and bums are pretty well off.

6/13/2008 2:06:05 AM

wtf is this civil discourse doing in TSB?

6/13/2008 2:12:18 AM

^^ Utopia is in Washington? Who knew? JK

^ Yeah, this is damaging my street cred.

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 2:14 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2008 2:13:39 AM

Once we unionize, I'll be able to not show up for work, but still collect checks for ~15 years until they go through the red tape of firing me.

excellent

6/13/2008 8:00:57 AM

Quote :

"unions are stupid, case closed, we have OSHA now, state workers are well compensated, get BENEFITS that most of us in the private sector dream about "

as a state employee, i'm laughing at you

6/13/2008 2:48:16 PM

people in union jobs get fired out here all the time.

take Boeing, for instance.

you get caught stealing (including falsifying time) -- you're gone.

everything else, is pretty much three strikes you're out.

having a union job is not a guarantee that you're gonna keep it. but it is a guarantee that you'll receive prevailing wages, work in a safe environment, and have representation against the whims of management to treat you like an expendable resource.

6/13/2008 3:35:54 PM

Quote :

"But I don't agree with a government outright banning its employees from collective bargaining with itself and local governments. And you are simply wrong that "state workers are well compensated"--a recent market study of NCSU employees found that many were grossly underpaid. Some employees are receiving tens of thousands of dollars to bring their salaries to at least within 90% of the market rate. "

well if the state is loosing workers that it "needs" it should raise payroll itself, you don't need the union to do that. The union is just a waste of money, good year tire in Asheboro unionized and all it did was cost employees $10/week to do the same job with the same pay. If you think you can do better than do better, ask for a raise, if the boss doesn't give it walk, that's how it works.

Quote :

" as a state employee, i'm laughing at you"

My wife worked for the department of labor. She left a high paying engineering job with UPS to go and "help people." What she moved into was a inefficient waste of time government bureaucracy where people spent more time "training" and attending meetings than actually doing the job the department was supposed to be doing... the fact that you're posting to T-dub at 2:48 PM speaks volumes for how the state works. Here is am in the private sector just getting home from work at 6:41, haven't even showered yet, and I started work at 6:45... lets see if I worked for state I'd be getting mad comp time right now and retirement benefits to boot...
Bottom line, NC and the south east in general is growing at a faster rate than most of the rest of the country because WE DON'T have unions. Their shutting factories down up there and building new ones here, and it ain't because of our highly skilled labor force, it's because it's crazy to pay someone $65k to put on lug nuts. Higher wages for everyone mean higher prices for everyone, raise the minimum wage and along w/ it raise the cost of living.

6/13/2008 6:45:07 PM

what i read from ^ is, why would you want unions?! you get paid less and work more without them!

6/14/2008 10:18:54 AM

getting paid less and having a job is a lot better than getting paid so much your job is outsourced.

6/15/2008 5:38:32 PM

I'm just tired of teachers getting 7% and the rest of State employees crossing their fingers to get just 2%.

BTW, why don't they ever consider flat raises? It seems the big problem is in starting teacher pay (though I have a friend who has only been teaching 4 years and she makes $48,000). So instead of a 5% for everyone, take the funding you have and divide by # of teachers and give everyone the same. At least alternate between pecentage and flat raises to prevent greater separation of income levels.

6/15/2008 9:58:06 PM

There are a lot of problems with the education system, and none of them are solved by these^ retarded ideas. He guys, let's remove all incentives for someone to develop professionally!!!!

6/15/2008 10:56:35 PM

Quote :

"the fact that you're posting to T-dub at 2:48 PM speaks volumes for how the state works."

well, while i can't disagree with some of what you say, it doesn't help that you assume i was working when i wrote that. i was disagreeing with the compensation and benefits. pay is less than adequate for my education and the benefits (not counting retirement, i won't be with the state long enough for that to mater) are on par with any other.

[Edited on June 16, 2008 at 7:38 AM. Reason : ]

6/16/2008 7:34:57 AM

not too much harm meant, just a little I'm just real anti-union here lately because if it gets started down here we have a lot to loose. My brother is an IE for a very large company and they have a plant that employees over 3k people, he told me there is an "unwritten but spoken" memo that IF they ever unionized that factory would be shut down and moved to wherever. We had a plant unionize here is Asheboro a few years ago, and there is a VERY good chance now that it'll close down. The unions come in and promise all these great things and in reality they can't deliver... a union is a business, plain and simple, they're in business to make money for union heads, they need members to make $, that's why they hate wal-mart, and why they are desperately trying to get into the south.
And as far as being on par w/ the private sector I think you have to look at your job in an economic sense. I had a great econ professor at state, Dr. Russell Lamb, who kept bashing the idea that both teaches and professors would say they needed pay at "parity" with the private sector. He HATED this, mainly because as a employee of the state you have just about NIL risk. Almost no one looses their job/position w/ colleges, gov depts or what have you. He said as an Econ professor he couldn't tell us he deserved more pay that what he was receiving, which as he said $120k ain't bad money. But he deserves more respect, because instead of always complaining about his pay he did something my senior year (he was also my advisor) he QUIT! Took a VERY high paying job w/ the Fed.
And good luck to u in the private sector, my wife left the state after a year, and even though she works a heck of a lot more now she at least feels like she accomplishes something at the end of the day.

[Edited on June 16, 2008 at 8:51 PM. Reason : mas]

6/16/2008 8:46:09 PM

Quote :

"But I don't agree with a government outright banning its employees from collective bargaining with itself and local governments."

Why? Walmart has banned collective bargaining in its stores, why can't North Carolina ban it? The state government has not banned collective bargaining for those that want to, just with itself.

As such, I see nothing wrong with this law. I support North Carolina's right, just as I would support the right of any major employer, to refuse demands for collective bargaining. If state workers are truely underpaid then they will quit and go work elsewhere, no harm done.

6/16/2008 10:02:08 PM

bttt by request

12/11/2008 7:14:50 PM

Quote :

"an aside: apparently the public universities in massachusetts are in terrible shape too. be thankful for what you have/had in the unc system."

Public universities in Massachusetts are in poor shape because the state government doesn't give a flip about them. In most states, your state assemblies and government officials tend to be products of the state university system; for example, here in NC, many of our assemblymen and other public officials are products of UNC, NC State, and the many other schools in the UNC system.

Not so in Massachusetts where the state legislature is dominated by Harvard and BU graduates. Therefore, they do a nice job supporting the fine private institutions in Boston but then leave schools like UMass Amherst, the flagship of the UMass system, to rot.

Speaking of UMass, there's a good example of the benefits a union can bring. The graduate student RA and TA's of UMass Amherst are unionized, guaranteeing them a whole slew of benefits: not just one of the best RA stipends in the nation (around $20k), but full health, dental, and even discounts on parking.

12/11/2008 7:40:09 PM

Quote :

"^^ Utopia is in Washington? Who knew? JK ^ Yeah, this is damaging my street cred. "

question: did you get married recently?

12/11/2008 10:51:54 PM

Quote :

"not just one of the best RA stipends in the nation (around $20k)"

ha

$20k is weak

i make a lot more than that at georgia tech as a graduate research assistant

[Edited on December 11, 2008 at 11:04 PM. Reason : 

12/11/2008 11:03:38 PM

it's $20K stipend + tuition at UW for grad assistants, plus medical and dental, although the med/dental is kind of weak compared to what i get w/ blue cross blue shield

i think that's fairly average across the nation, at least at your regular state university.

12/12/2008 1:20:58 AM

I requested this bump because SEANC recently partnered with SEIU (Service Employees International Union) and. . .

SEANC leaders join SEIU board

Quote :

"Two SEANC members have joined the SEIU board. Executive Director Dana Cope and President Linda Rouse Sutton of the State Employees Association of North Carolina were elected to the Service Employees International Union's executive board during the latter group's 2008 convention. SEANC, which represents more than 55,000 state workers, joined together with SEIU in May as part of a multi-year effort to strengthen labor laws in North Carolina. 'North Carolina state employees finally have a voice at the national level to protect and improve the valuable services they provide,' Cope said in a statement. The board members has 23 vice presidents and 37 board members who will lead the union for its 2008 to 2012 term."

http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/seanc_leaders_join_seiu_board

But. . .

Union Is Caught Up in Illinois Bribe Case

Quote :

"The Service Employees International Union has long boasted that it is on the cutting edge of the labor movement. But the union found itself badly embarrassed this week when it was named in the federal criminal complaint charging Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich of Illinois with maneuvering to secure financial gain from the appointment of the state’s next senator. The complaint said Mr. Blagojevich’s chief of staff, John Harris, had suggested to a service employees official that the union should help make the governor the president of Change to Win, a federation of seven unions that broke away from the A.F.L.-C.I.O. The complaint said Mr. Blagojevich, a Democrat, was seeking a position that paid $250,000 to $300,000 a year. In exchange, the complaint suggested, Mr. Blagojevich had expected the service employees union and Change to Win to seek to persuade him to name President-elect Barack Obama’s first choice, Valerie Jarrett, to succeed Mr. Obama in the Senate. The union would also receive help from the Obama administration, presumably for its legislative agenda."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/us/politics/12union.html?ref=politics

The Blago mess is like a vortex that keeps sucking in people and organizations. So, will SEANC--and possibly its members--be tarnished or otherwise damaged by this Illinois scandal? What does this mean for the SEANC leadership who have joined the SEIU board?

12/12/2008 4:36:35 AM

There is no way SEANC has 55,000 members. I'm a state employee and don't know of anyone who is a member.

12/12/2008 7:54:05 AM

This thread makes me sad for our state.

Quote :

"Speaking of UMass, there's a good example of the benefits a union can bring. The graduate student RA and TA's of UMass Amherst are unionized, guaranteeing them a whole slew of benefits: not just one of the best RA stipends in the nation (around $20k), but full health, dental, and even discounts on parking."

Who pays for these benefits?

Also, great post with relevant personal experience (not just talking points):

Quote :

"not too much harm meant, just a little I'm just real anti-union here lately because if it gets started down here we have a lot to loose. My brother is an IE for a very large company and they have a plant that employees over 3k people, he told me there is an "unwritten but spoken" memo that IF they ever unionized that factory would be shut down and moved to wherever. We had a plant unionize here is Asheboro a few years ago, and there is a VERY good chance now that it'll close down. The unions come in and promise all these great things and in reality they can't deliver... a union is a business, plain and simple, they're in business to make money for union heads, they need members to make $, that's why they hate wal-mart, and why they are desperately trying to get into the south. And as far as being on par w/ the private sector I think you have to look at your job in an economic sense. I had a great econ professor at state, Dr. Russell Lamb, who kept bashing the idea that both teaches and professors would say they needed pay at "parity" with the private sector. He HATED this, mainly because as a employee of the state you have just about NIL risk. Almost no one looses their job/position w/ colleges, gov depts or what have you. He said as an Econ professor he couldn't tell us he deserved more pay that what he was receiving, which as he said $120k ain't bad money. But he deserves more respect, because instead of always complaining about his pay he did something my senior year (he was also my advisor) he QUIT! Took a VERY high paying job w/ the Fed. And good luck to u in the private sector, my wife left the state after a year, and even though she works a heck of a lot more now she at least feels like she accomplishes something at the end of the day."

[Edited on December 12, 2008 at 8:52 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2008 8:44:23 AM

Quote :

"Who pays for these benefits?"

i know at ncsu it depends on whether you're an RA or a TA. if an RA, the sponsoring company/entity pays for this stuff (the univ might pay for one part i don't remember, maybe medical). if you're a TA, the university pays for it.

12/12/2008 10:18:17 AM

Quote :

"Also, great post with relevant personal experience (not just talking points):"

you need to look up the words great and relevant.

12/12/2008 1:58:39 PM

you need to look up the words douche and bag

12/12/2008 4:53:46 PM

Which really wouldn't solve anything since in the phrase douche bag it is necessary to have both words together and not their separate definitions.

There will come a time when you have to enter the real world. It will be interesting to you.

12/12/2008 6:36:46 PM

Real world? Oh is that when I have bills, a mortgage, taxes? Already there buddy...except I didn't get a job on a campaign like you. Your view of the world is already warped.

12/15/2008 12:33:58 PM

lol

12/15/2008 12:51:08 PM