http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/

everything you say can and WILL be used against you in the court of law. says nothing about helping you.

5/15/2008 1:00:49 AM

um, dur

5/15/2008 3:01:36 AM

Obvious, but good video.

5/15/2008 3:16:12 AM

Quote :

"um, dur"

5/15/2008 3:48:18 AM

All of you acting as if remaining silent is so obvious should stop. You know as well as I do that plenty of people talk when they should just be quiet.

Many forget the deal about federal agents, too--I wouldn't ever say a fucking thing to them. (1) Lying to a federal agent is a crime and (2) the prosecutors always get you for the lie when they can't get you for the underlying alleged crime (see Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby, to name just a couple of defendants).

PS: There's also the issue of the seemingly harmless questions the cops ask you during, say, a DWI arrest. Questions like "What did you have to eat today?" and so on--but in the list will be something like "What time did you start drinking?" This will later be produced as evidence that you admitted to drinking, and if they can, the cops will get you to admit driving, too. Then they'll ask you to sign the form with the questions and your answers on it.

Exhibit A: Defendant admitted to driving while drinking as indicated by this signed form. Case pretty much closed.

[Edited on May 15, 2008 at 8:23 AM. Reason : .]

5/15/2008 8:17:09 AM

Actually doing this at a traffic stop threw one cop (my only time pulled over) completely for a loop.

Him: License and Registration, please
Me: Silent, and hand them to him.
Him: "What are you doing out so late?" (it was 230 a.m., and I was going to work).
Me: Blank stare straight ahead, not acknowledging the question.
Him: Do you know how fast you were going?
Me: .....
Him: The speed limit here is 45, and I clocked you going 59. Have you been drinking?
Me: .....
Him: Step out of the car. (He was getting really pissed, and feeling the social awkwardness of speaking to someone who repeatedly refuses to acknowledge you).

I roll up the window, lock the doors, and step out, immediately complying.

Him: Why did you lock the door and roll the window up?
Me: (silence)
Him: I'm going to have to pat you down. Are you carrying any weapons?

I assume the position as instructed, and don't answer the question. I wasn't carrying.

He stops for a while after the pat-down, confused as to how he could proceed.

"Surely, you won't mind if I take a quick look around your car."
Me: "If that is a request for my consent for you to search, then the answer is no."
Him: "Why, are you hiding something?"
Me: Silence.

He goes back to his vehicle for a long time - I assume getting advice for how to proceed, because he had already run my info and written a ticket. He came back and said, "Drive safely" and let me go.

It's the principle of the matter. I have nothing to hide, and I am not a criminal. And I know for damn sure that there are individuals within the Raleigh PD, and every other PD, who are not above planting evidence, coercing or manipulating testimony, etc.

It's just smart to help avoid crap like that. Immediately comply with all orders, stay silent except to refuse a search, and get a badge # or name just in case you want to file a complaint later. When asked to get out of the car, lock the doors and roll up the windows, as it (helps, at least) prevent the officer from saying 'I smell something funny' and have instant probable cause.

This cop wasn't particularly dickish, and didn't really do anything that bad - but there's just no way of telling about any of them.

[Edited on May 15, 2008 at 11:25 AM. Reason : a]

5/15/2008 11:21:59 AM

P.S. That is probably advice taken with the proverbial grain of salt...

5/15/2008 11:32:38 AM

video doesn't work

[Edited on May 15, 2008 at 11:49 AM. Reason : ok, server was bad for a while, works now]

5/15/2008 11:47:29 AM

^^^Or you could have been polite to the cop and maybe he wouldn't have written you a ticket and taken up your time. Works for me.

And i have never been asked to get out of the car like a criminal.

[Edited on May 15, 2008 at 12:59 PM. Reason : ]

5/15/2008 12:58:43 PM

Quote :

"^^^Or you could have been polite to the cop and maybe he wouldn't have written you a ticket and taken up your time. Works for me. And i have never been asked to get out of the car like a criminal."

Perhaps, but I did a good deed.

Now there is one more cop out there at least aware of the fact that silence does not constitute probable cause. Any time a cop learns even the slightest lesson about the restraints on his power, and the rights of the citizens he enforces the law on (note: not "serve and protect"), it is a good thing. Whether he heeds that lesson is doubtful, but now he knows.

And on the pragmatic angle, it does greatly decrease the possibility of bigger legal problems than a ticket. The ticket may come, but it is a lot less likely something else will.

[Edited on May 15, 2008 at 1:10 PM. Reason : a]

5/15/2008 1:09:22 PM

I take the facebook approach to cops.

All my information is out there, I have nothing to hide, and I don't do stupid shit. So I enjoy having a little chat (although I haven't been pulled over for anything noteworthy in yeeaaarss).

The last couple of times were for a DMV fuckup, and when I left my drink on the roof

5/15/2008 1:12:49 PM

Quote :

"and when I left my drink on the roof"

5/15/2008 1:15:23 PM

Quote :

" All my information is out there, I have nothing to hide, and I don't do stupid shit. So I enjoy having a little chat "

yeah thats my approach too

5/15/2008 1:29:50 PM

if people like having nice chats with the police, that's all well and good. just don't admit guilt for anything. never admit to speeding. that's silly. unless you can convince them to give you a verbal warning in the 10 seconds before they head back to their car to write a ticket, might as well not give them any more ammunition.

5/15/2008 2:22:30 PM

^done that multiple times (granted that was 7+ years ago). just being cordial goes a long way with a lot of people

5/15/2008 2:36:42 PM

^^aha i got a warning after admitting to speeding.
i honestly wasnt looking at the speedometer at all and i wasnt doing anything but driving down a straight road, so i KNEW it had to be speeding.


cop: do you know what i pulled you for?
me: it was speeding wasnt it?

my friend in the passenger seat then proceeded to slap the absolute SHIT out of my arm and gave me a WTF?! look.

the cop laughed so hard he gave us a warning.





[Edited on May 15, 2008 at 4:01 PM. Reason : gfjhgfjg]

5/15/2008 3:59:18 PM

I got pulled in east Texas a while back ("following too closely" because the car in front of me slammed on the brakes when they saw the cop) and the cop was really friendly and chatty about where I was going. As soon as I told him that I was visiting friends/seeing the country he assumed that I was a drug mule, turned into a prick and asked to search my car. I said no and he got really pissed off, went to his car, got on the radio and called for back up. I ended up on the side of the road for 3 hours next to a girl cop with her gun drawn while the first asshole crawled under my car and checked all of the seams on the seats.

5/15/2008 4:11:39 PM

your first mistake was going to texas...

5/15/2008 5:38:58 PM

Quote :

" Perhaps, but I did a good deed. Now there is one more cop out there at least aware of the fact that silence does not constitute probable cause. Any time a cop learns even the slightest lesson about the restraints on his power, and the rights of the citizens he enforces the law on (note: not "serve and protect"), it is a good thing. Whether he heeds that lesson is doubtful, but now he knows. And on the pragmatic angle, it does greatly decrease the possibility of bigger legal problems than a ticket. The ticket may come, but it is a lot less likely something else will."

Ohh someone thinks highly of themselves. It's called being intelligent when you talk to a cop, not stonewalling like some high and mighty prick.

I really hope you tell a cop one day that you're being silent because you want to teach him a lesson about restraint and legal proceedings.

5/15/2008 5:49:01 PM

I think being silent is a little excessive, but you certainly don't need to volunteer any more information than is strictly necessary.

The "do you know how fast you were going" is actually probably best answered by silence. I tend to say "I don't know", which is generally a lie, but how are they going to prove that you were in fact looking at your speedometer?

And I would most certainly refuse an unprompted search. Failing to do so is failing to uphold your end of a basic right of citizenship, and my time isn't worth as much as preventing erosion of that right.

5/15/2008 6:07:36 PM

good lol video

5/15/2008 6:09:11 PM

^^ I totally agree. But stonewalling a cop is going to get you nowhere fast.

5/15/2008 6:41:44 PM

this is awesome.


I've had Professor Duane before (he teaches trial practice, evidence, and comparative law). Saw him today, in fact.

I know Detective George Bruch, as well.


weird... its like my law world collides with the wolfweb...

[Edited on May 15, 2008 at 6:54 PM. Reason : k]

5/15/2008 6:54:21 PM

good video.

5/15/2008 7:04:50 PM

doesn't work for me

5/15/2008 7:15:25 PM

Doesn't work for me either.

5/15/2008 7:46:23 PM

i think it has a max amount of users at one time - if you keep hitting the play button it will eventually work

5/15/2008 8:03:42 PM

speeding is not usually going to result in you going to jail or anything, but it's a good place to practice exercising your rights.

But, I had a friend who was pulled for a busted tail light, but got arrested for drunk driving, after admitting he had something to drink earlier.

5/15/2008 8:19:35 PM

Quote :

"^^ I totally agree. But stonewalling a cop is going to get you nowhere fast."

You're right. And "nowhere" includes not in prison for bullshit.

5/15/2008 8:37:54 PM

Officer "Do you know how fast you were going?"

Me "Yes."

5/16/2008 12:53:43 AM

TULIPlovr did a semi-smart thing i guess but i think it was more disrespectful than helpful in that situation. i think you could have gotten off without the ticket had you just politely replied to his inquiries.

5/16/2008 1:32:45 AM

Quote :

" i think you could have gotten off without the ticket had you just politely replied to his inquiries."

For speeding that's always possible, but it's probably not likely.

5/16/2008 1:46:19 AM

5/16/2008 2:18:05 AM

^^ dude, i bet i've been pulled over at least 75 times, and i've had maybe a half dozen tickets.

5/16/2008 2:20:01 AM

Quote :

"All of you acting as if remaining silent is so obvious should stop. You know as well as I do that plenty of people talk when they should just be quiet."

every moron i arrest

5/16/2008 3:52:35 AM

See what you need to do is just always ride with someone who has big tits and a low cut shirt. Unless you managed to get pulled over by a female cop, you're most likely not going to get the ticket.

5/16/2008 3:53:25 AM

^^ Thank you.

5/16/2008 3:57:30 AM

Quote :

"... but i think it was more disrespectful than helpful in that situation."

Sure you have the right to act like that and not say a word but what is it helping??? I enjoy people who do small talk with me on the side of the road. More then likely people who are polite and respect me as much as I respect them, I will just let them off with a warning. No I dont expect you to admit to any wrong doings and if you dont wanna answer simple questions then tell me and I wont waste your time or mine. If you dont say jack and dont even acknowledge that I asked a question then you're only hurting yourself.

5/17/2008 4:06:16 PM

Quote :

"Sure you have the right to act like that and not say a word but what is it helping??? I enjoy people who do small talk with me on the side of the road. More then likely people who are polite and respect me as much as I respect them, I will just let them off with a warning. No I dont expect you to admit to any wrong doings and if you dont wanna answer simple questions then tell me and I wont waste your time or mine. If you dont say jack and dont even acknowledge that I asked a question then you're only hurting yourself."

Why do you ask those questions in the first place? It is obvious that it is not simply from curiosity or to make small-talk. You're fishing for potential evidence, whether it 'feels' like you're doing that or not is irrelevant.

On the idea that it is not in my own interest to be silent, you're right in the short-term situation with only a ticket. It makes me more likely to get one than a warning.

But, I still do it for three reasons: 1) as I mentioned, I get the wonderful opportunity as a citizen to inform the officer of something they all continually neglect - the rights of individuals, and what constitutes probable cause...and 2) On principle, where I'm going, why I am out late, etc. is none of their business and should not even be asked. It may help to train the insatiable busy-body out of the officer. And 3) It lowers the risk that a cop will be able to make up a story, plant evidence, or pull some other shenanigans that get me in bigger trouble than a ticket.

[Edited on May 17, 2008 at 4:31 PM. Reason : a]

5/17/2008 4:29:52 PM

Quote :

"Why do you ask those questions in the first place? It is obvious that it is not simply from curiosity or to make small-talk. You're fishing for potential evidence, whether it 'feels' like you're doing that or not is irrelevant. "

It might have something to do with determining whether the reason you were pulled over in the first place is the only thing you're doing wrong. I mean a typical traffic stop takes what, 15 - 20 minutes? In that time the cop needs to determine who you are, why you did what you did, and whether the reason you did what you did is because your mind is on the larger things you've done wrong. The small talk and questions is to keep their own butts safe.

5/17/2008 6:51:22 PM

Quote :

"In that time the cop needs to determine who you are"

thats what the license and registration is for

Quote :

"why you did what you did"

since when has motive ever mattered in a traffic stop

Quote :

" and whether the reason you did what you did is because your mind is on the larger things you've done wrong. The small talk and questions is to keep their own butts safe."

which is exactly why you shouldn't answer questions. there are no completely innocuous questions asked during a traffic stop. none of it is small talk, and all of it can be used against you.

5/17/2008 6:54:55 PM

Quote :

"thats what the license and registration is for "

All a license does is tell you that the person in the picture, who hopefully is the one before you, claims to go by X name. Licenses can be faked / stolen. Furthermore, I meant "who" in the terms of are you the type of person who when the officer turns around to go back to his car to run your info, are going to grab the .38 you have illegally stashed in the center console and shoot him. Or, put more simply who you are is more than a name and a face.

Quote :

"since when has motive ever mattered in a traffic stop"

Again, an obtuse interpretation of the question. Are you doing this on purpose? Why did you cross the double yellow? Are you drunk? Sleepy? Fighting a rabid wolverine that escaped from the cage in the back? Why are you speeding like a bat out of hell? In a hurry? Rushing someone to the hospital? Trying to get over the border before a cop stops you for the 100 lbs of drugs in the trunk?

Quote :

"which is exactly why you shouldn't answer questions. there are no completely innocuous questions asked during a traffic stop. none of it is small talk, and all of it can be used against you."

You're right, there's no such thing as an innocuous question but it's the cops job to enforce the law, and asking those questions helps him determine the best way to enforce that law.

5/17/2008 9:07:59 PM

Quote :

"^^aha i got a warning after admitting to speeding. i honestly wasnt looking at the speedometer at all and i wasnt doing anything but driving down a straight road, so i KNEW it had to be speeding. cop: do you know what i pulled you for? me: it was speeding my gigantic fake boobs wasnt it? my friend in the passenger seat then proceeded to slap the absolute SHIT out of my arm and gave me a WTF?! look. the cop laughed so hard he gave us a warning. "

5/18/2008 1:11:47 AM

Quote :

""and when I left my drink beer on the roof"

fixed that for you.

5/18/2008 8:19:31 PM

^one time I got pulled on the way back from a conference.

I had been drinking, I had a case sitting in the passenger seat (but of course no open containers). Guy said "Have you been drinking?" I said "yes" He asks how many, I told him 7, from about 1:30pm through 6pm. It was 1:47AM when I got pulled.

We talked for a minute about why I was out so late and where I was going (from Oak Island back to Greensboro). He wrote me a speeding ticket, told me a few places I could stop for caffeine to stay awake and told me to slow down.

Being honest almost always is beneficial when you are not being an idiot.

5/18/2008 11:48:39 PM

bttt

8/6/2008 7:37:22 PM

Why won't you do ____ unless you have something to hide?

Yeah, that's not Orwellian in any shape or form.

8/6/2008 10:25:29 PM

Quote :

"I got pulled in east Texas a while back ("following too closely" because the car in front of me slammed on the brakes when they saw the cop) and the cop was really friendly and chatty about where I was going. As soon as I told him that I was visiting friends/seeing the country he assumed that I was a drug mule, turned into a prick and asked to search my car. I said no and he got really pissed off, went to his car, got on the radio and called for back up. I ended up on the side of the road for 3 hours next to a girl cop with her gun drawn while the first asshole crawled under my car and checked all of the seams on the seats."

Don't you need probable cause to search someone's car?

8/7/2008 12:29:51 AM

Quote :

"Don't you need probable cause to search someone's car?"

Cops have a lot of discretion when it comes to searching cars. Yes...they do have to have probable cause to do an extensive search such as the one that guy is talking about, but they can come up with just about anything to perform that search.

SILA (search incident to a lawful arrest) = if cops arrest you for anything, doesn't have to be drugs or weapon related, they can search anything except for your trunk...WITHOUT your permission (including a locked glove compartment). If they get probably cause that you might have some drugs, they can usually pry the trunk open.

Bottom line...cops have a lot of discretion on the road...but they can still fuck it up for being retards, which they usually are.

8/7/2008 9:30:58 AM

Quote :

"It is obvious that it is not simply from curiosity"

I do small talk to be friendly. If an officer walked up to me and asked for my ID then walked back to his car and came back with a ticket then left without saying anything else I would consider that rude. He's not wrong in doing that, but Ive found that I get a lot further with people by killin them with kindness

Yea officer needs something to search not just cuz he got mad. There are several reasons an officer can search a car. most often its from simply asking and getting permission. There's also search incident to arrest which means if I arrest you while driving your car for DWI, ect then I can search the passenger area of your car or anywhere you had access too. There's also the "plain view" doctrine which states if I look through the window and see something that is illegal then its fair game. If your car smells of marijuana then of course thats bad. Or while walking around the outside of your car if the K-9 alerts to something.

8/7/2008 9:33:26 AM