http://therealmccain.com/

6/2/2008 11:47:45 PM

i vote for this thread to be locked....seems like something a republican would make...plus the do something at the end is gay....i'm getting tired to politics coming down to a 2 minute blip that makes the candidate look bad

6/3/2008 5:03:13 AM

the real mccain honorably served his country and rotted in a VC POW camp for several years...lived to tell about it and further served his country as a politician.

6/3/2008 1:51:48 PM

the Real McCain is the only candidate with the military background necessary to be President, since the President is Commander in Chief...Private Obama and Private Clinton need to go fight in Iraq first

6/3/2008 1:55:45 PM

^ hahaha, are you serious?

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 1:57 PM. Reason : oh, i guess not]

6/3/2008 1:56:41 PM

they could just play dress up and stand in front of a banner.

6/3/2008 1:57:06 PM

Yes Terp, the President of the United States is the Commander and Chief of the USAF. But you're an Obama supporter, so experience isn't high on your priority list in a candidate anyway.

the iraq part was kind of a joke though

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 1:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2008 1:58:15 PM

right... and that is the president's only job - so good argument!

Anyway, I'm not arguing with you jackasses

later

6/3/2008 2:00:38 PM

^^^haha, winner

6/3/2008 2:02:13 PM

I think its the sequel to this video. This one seemed stronger and broader in my opinion.



[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2008 2:03:02 PM

Treetwista, you know that the president is a civilian leader of the military correct? He's not actually supposed to be a military commander. They gave the role to a civilian and not a military commander for a reason.

6/3/2008 2:03:15 PM

some people would prefer their boss to have worked for their company for some time, instead of hiring a CEO with no experience...clearly the majority of TSB doesnt, but thats irrelevant

6/3/2008 2:07:03 PM

not talking about any particular candidate when I make the separation from the military comment, just stating that military experience, while nice, does not qualify anyone to be a president, in fact someone who was very recently in the military (or quit to run) would have less credence in my opinion because of these separations. note that no candidate this time around falls under these conditions but it would be applicable if someone like petraeus (sp) were running.

6/3/2008 2:09:15 PM

Quote :

"But you're an Obama supporter, so experience isn't high on your priority list"

pwnt

6/3/2008 2:12:49 PM

lol yeah thats what i said when i read that

6/3/2008 2:20:51 PM

I like how Republicans had no problem voting for George Bush, a man with hardly any experience anywhere and now are voting for McCain arguing he's the only one WITH experience.

6/3/2008 2:36:09 PM

I like how Democrats complained about the Republicans distracting the public with trivial "flip flop" issues and character assination back in 2004, now they're doing the same thing to John McCain!

Trust me. You'll have much less faith in your own party (Democrat or Republican) after a few election cycles.

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 2:40 PM. Reason : ``]

6/3/2008 2:39:46 PM

yeh, just let him earn a buck or 2 in the real world, and he'll change his mind, once the tax rate hits him like a wall of bricks

6/3/2008 2:41:03 PM

Quote :

"I like how Democrats complained about the Republicans distracting the public with trivial "flip flop" issues and character assination back in 2004, now they're doing the same thing to John McCain! "

thats disingenuous imo...repubs started the viral videos first this election cycle

6/3/2008 2:42:03 PM

Quote :

"I like how Republicans had no problem voting for George Bush, a man with hardly any experience anywhere"

bc Gore and Clinton had sooo much military experience

none of them did. now that there's a choice to pick someone with that experience, that's the one many are going to go with, on top of other issues.

6/3/2008 3:17:46 PM

Quote :

" The Real McCain"

that has a nice ring to it.

6/3/2008 3:20:11 PM

You don't have to fight on the ground to set a military objective

And when you're fighting in the Middle East it's good to have someone who knows the difference between Sunni and Shiite, knows how many troops we have on the ground, and cares what happens to the veterans when they get home

But that's obviously not high on your priority list in a candidate anyway

6/3/2008 4:04:13 PM

Couldn't this entire crap fest have gone in the gaffe thread?

6/3/2008 4:09:12 PM

Quote :

"and cares what happens to the veterans when they get home"

inorite? why would a veteran care about other veterans???

6/3/2008 4:25:17 PM

any relation to the Real McCoy?

6/3/2008 4:26:49 PM

Quote :

"why would a veteran care about other veterans???"

one would think.

but he scored pretty terribly on the veterans' interest group rating.

6/3/2008 4:34:43 PM

Here we have a guy who voted against Webb's GI Bill because it does too much for veterans, might make them want to get out of the military and go to college or something

Because god forbid people leave the military having done less than five or six tours! If we give stuff to solidiers they'll have a reason to leave and then we could just kiss enlistment goodbye, it's not like anyone would actually join the military to get those benefits that are granted by the GI Bill

Oh wait

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2008 4:38:40 PM

Quote :

"yeh, just let him earn a buck or 2 in the real world, and he'll change his mind, once the tax rate hits him like a wall of bricks"

i already work in the real world, have been for quite sometime now. thanks.

and again, i'm against ads like this, on either side. for one thing, they are taking clips of mccain that seem to contradict eachother yet they were said months apart when situations had changed. pretty misleading.

Quote :

"I like how Democrats complained about the Republicans distracting the public with trivial "flip flop" issues and character assination back in 2004, now they're doing the same thing to John McCain! Trust me. You'll have much less faith in your own party (Democrat or Republican) after a few election cycles. "

yup. and i'm an independent.

Quote :

"bc Gore and Clinton had sooo much military experience none of them did. now that there's a choice to pick someone with that experience, that's the one many are going to go with, on top of other issues. "

i'm not sure why military experience seems to be the only qualifying factor for republicans. considering, it's supposed to be the one area where we only go when ABSOLUTELY necessary.

gore was the vice president for 8 years, pretty relevant experience if you ask me. as for clinton, the man was a rhodes scholar. i'd rather have a genius for a president than a c wall student. now granted those were c's at a prestigous university, but we all know how he got there to begin with (w that is).

mccain's "military" experience consists of flying planes and surviving torture. the only relevant experience he has is that he would never cut corners at the expense of troops. however, any reasonable person would do this as well. it's like saying gore wouldn't have hit back at the terrorists after 9/11. as david cross said, even nader would have bombed afghanistan. so this idea that republicans are the only ones who care about defending america is ridiculous

6/3/2008 4:54:29 PM

Quote :

"mccain's "military" experience consists of flying planes and surviving torture."

6/3/2008 4:55:54 PM

And just in case any "libertarian" Republicans have any lingering notions of supporting McCain, his newly minted communications director has a message for you: get lost.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/03/a_message_to_ron_paul_supporte.asp

Quote :

"Allah beat me to the punch on this, but let me just say to Ron Paul supporters everywhere, and on behalf of the New Right (by which I assume Paul means the Jew Right), get lost. There should be plenty of room for the Paulnuts in Obama's big tent. If Rev. Wright isn't exactly a 9/11 Truther, at least he's breathed new life into the Pearl Harbor Truther movement. Imagine a newsletter coauthored by the Reverend and Lew Rockwell--now that's racial harmony."

6/3/2008 5:08:05 PM

^^

i'm sorry but being able to zero a 105mm into a city 20 miles away, being able to hike through the jungle and navigate with a compass and map, being able to drop out of a plane and land on your target and being able to drop bombs over cities is absolutely irrelevant to being the president of our country. this is the problem with a lot of voters, they VOTE ON COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT DETAILS. management skills, open mindedness, the ability to delegate quickly and thoroughly, these are SOME skills that would be relevant to choosing a president. you can argue that he acquired skills such as these by being in the military but that does NOT mean that the other candidates don't have them just because they weren't in the military. college is a good start.

morons

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 5:26 PM. Reason : jank]

6/3/2008 5:25:50 PM

^^ Wow.

6/3/2008 5:32:41 PM

were they really celebrating McCain's birthday during hurricane Katrina?

I just don't believe that face value.

6/3/2008 5:37:46 PM

Quote :

"Here we have a guy who voted against Webb's GI Bill because it does too much for veterans, might make them want to get out of the military and go to college or something "

I actually agree with mccain's idea. The longer you stay the more benefits you should have. Thats how the real world works.

6/3/2008 5:47:32 PM

Quote :

"mccain's "military" experience consists of flying planes and surviving torture. "

this is laughably incorrect. i mean, it's not even close. first of all, as a military aviator, you do a lot more than "fly planes". you're first and foremost a military officer. all the business of running a squadron (which is a huge animal, in terms of personnel leadership/management, logistics, planning, fiscal considerations, etc) is done by the officers. it just so happens that they're also the ones who fly the aircraft.

McCain was the commanding officer of (what I believe was) the largest squadron in the Navy at the time. He was also a Captain (O-6, equivalent to a full-bird Colonel in the other services), and was offered a promotion to rear admiral (1-star), which pretty much implies he was a commanding officer of at least one other command somewhere along the way, as well. At the O-6 level, you're dealing with not only a huge level of stuff within your own command, there are all sorts of big-picture, sometimes political considerations outside of your command.

On top of all that, he ended his career as a naval liason to the Senate, so he's further experienced in the interface between Washington and the military in that regard).

I also don't think that what he did as a POW should be downplayed. He had the opportunity to go home a few months into the ordeal, but refused and stayed for something like 4-5 more years, saying that he wouldn't leave unless they sent everyone else home, too.

Quote :

"i'm sorry but being able to zero a 105mm into a city 20 miles away, being able to hike through the jungle and navigate with a compass and map, being able to drop out of a plane and land on your target and being able to drop bombs over cities is absolutely irrelevant to being the president of our country. this is the problem with a lot of voters, they VOTE ON COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT DETAILS. management skills, open mindedness, the ability to delegate quickly and thoroughly, these are SOME skills that would be relevant to choosing a president. you can argue that he acquired skills such as these by being in the military but that does NOT mean that the other candidates don't have them just because they weren't in the military. college is a good start. morons "

Nobody is arguing that the President needs to be skilled in the art of putting warheads on foreheads, and I can tell you firsthand that college is nothing even remotely close to military officership (though it is a prerequisite) in terms of making you capable of leading.

I don't think that you have to be prior military to be a good political leader--that's also silly--but listing "college" as a proving ground or place for these skills to be honed? Are you fucking kidding?

Quote :

"I actually agree with mccain's idea. The longer you stay the more benefits you should have. Thats how the real world works. "

I agree. The current setup is good--meaningful benefits to all who serve (the MGIB alone is an awesome perk...$1200 buy-in, with a ROI of something like $40k). From both a manpower and a budgetary standpoint, though, I think graduating some potential benefits to be added with time in service makes sense.

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 6:05 PM. Reason : asdfasd]

6/3/2008 6:02:21 PM

Quote :

"I don't think that you have to be prior military to be a good political leader--that's also silly--but listing "college" as a proving ground or place for these skills to be honed? Are you fucking kidding? "

notice how i said college is a good START

try reading the whole thread

6/3/2008 8:25:36 PM

I noticed how you made a laughably stupid statement, got proven thoroughly wrong by theDuke866, and then proceeded to nitpick one line in a long post rather than admit that you were wrong.

Typical tww tactic, i guess.

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 8:48 PM. Reason : 2]

6/3/2008 8:47:54 PM

would you like to point out where i was proven wrong on anything?

he was arguing about mccain's credentials

i was arguing that you can acquire the same skills and competencies without being in the military

6/3/2008 10:05:38 PM

Quote :

"mccain's "military" experience consists of flying planes and surviving torture."

I thought that Duke proved you wrong on this statement pretty well. McCain has forgotten more about the military than Obama will ever know, and you can't write off that experience as "flying planes and surviving torture." Hell, he wrote a book on military strategy of the Vietnam war. You can talk all you want about delegating responsibility, but as Commander-In-Chief during wartime, the President WILL have to make some tough decisions that cannot be delegated to others. In that regard, McCain is certainly more prepared than Obama in that he knows much more about the capabilities and weaknesses of our armed forces.

6/4/2008 12:09:12 AM

Quote :

"some people would prefer their boss to have worked for their company for some time, instead of hiring a CEO with no experience"

What you're arguing (with your previous military experience required comment too) is akin to saying only former police officers should be seriously considered as candidates for mayor. Or, continuing your company analogy, only people who worked as corporate security guards should be considered for CEO. The armed forces are just one aspect of our government.

The idea that a true contender for the presidency better have military experience makes me laugh most when I hear it from people who voted for bush last election though. I'm not saying that's you, but among my friends there's a lot of former bush supporters who are suddenly insisting that they've always considered military service effectively required for them to consider someone for president. How short our memories are.

6/4/2008 12:27:21 AM

^THANK YOU!

Quote :

"I thought that Duke proved you wrong on this statement pretty well. McCain has forgotten more about the military than Obama will ever know, and you can't write off that experience as "flying planes and surviving torture." Hell, he wrote a book on military strategy of the Vietnam war. You can talk all you want about delegating responsibility, but as Commander-In-Chief during wartime, the President WILL have to make some tough decisions that cannot be delegated to others. In that regard, McCain is certainly more prepared than Obama in that he knows much more about the capabilities and weaknesses of our armed forces"

McCain forgetting more about the military than obama will ever know doesn't make me feel good about him running a war. As for this book you speak of, was this the same strategy that resulted in our withdrawal? Probably the same type of strategy that we used in Korea right before our withdrawal. As for tough decisions, you are speaking about life or death decisions, spur of the moment decisions, decisions such as whether to launch a nuclear missile and things of that nature. Tell me how his military experience applies to weighing civilian life? Are not both of them qualified considering both are civilians? It doesn't take a military mentality to use the greater good decision making diagram. Concerning both of them, I'd rather have a president who knew more about the Constitution than about any other area of expertise. At least then I could trust him to not violate it time after time after time, which has been happening since Eisenhower left office. Unfortunately, since no one cares about it, the only candidate who has this credential, among many other credentials, is not going to have a chance at the White House.

The point is, people who are using this stupid military argument have already decided who they are voting for and are simply trying to pad his skill set and differentiate him from his opponent in areas that do not matter. If Obama had military "experience" then the argument would simply reside on some other aspect.

You know, last night in McCain's speech, he spoke about how Democrats think government should run your life and solve all of your problems and that Republicans disagree completely. Well then tell me why Republicans spend more time micromanaging your life, faith and morals.

Democrats may micromanage the economy, but look what happens when they don't: medical waste dumping in the 70s-80s, Enron, Tyco, Oil Speculation in unregulated markets, predatory lending.

Getting back on topic, McCain is absolutely qualified to be president. Obama is as well. They are both qualified in different areas. What matters is the collective whole. Aside from his military experience and OCCASIONAL (at least before 2000) independent voting, McCain offers nothing new. And as for the Iraq problem, I'm sick and tired of Republicans acting as if they care what happens over there when they were the ones in the first place rushing in and talking about destroying everything and killing them all.

And again, anyone who could have supported the stupid gas tax holiday, someone who could ignore simple math, I find to be a bit too anti-intellect for me to vote for.

[Edited on June 4, 2008 at 1:09 PM. Reason : jank]

6/4/2008 12:58:27 PM

This has clips of McCain's speech last night that he planned as a counter point to Obama's Victory speech.


"McCain Leaves Fox Speechless"

6/4/2008 7:25:53 PM

He looks so proud every time he says "that's not change we can believe in" and I am proud of him too

6/4/2008 10:58:14 PM

That speech was painful to watch.

6/4/2008 11:12:21 PM

Quote :

"The idea that a true contender for the presidency better have military experience makes me laugh most when I hear it from people who voted for bush last election though."

For the record, I fall into neither of these categories.

Quote :

"Concerning both of them, I'd rather have a president who knew more about the Constitution than about any other area of expertise. At least then I could trust him to not violate it time after time after time, which has been happening since Eisenhower left office."

I won't say that McCain will be without fault in terms of constitutionality, but I can tell you for a fact that if you give half a damn about the Constitution, then Obama is not your candidate.

Quote :

" people who are using this stupid military argument have already decided who they are voting for and are simply trying to pad his skill set and differentiate him from his opponent in areas that do not matter."

wait a minute, let's not be completely ridiculous. I've said over and over again that military service shouldn't be viewed as a prerequisite for the Presidency, and neither is it a trump card that should overshadow anything and everything else. However, if giving credit to McCain for his background is padding his skillset, then it's the most legitimate kind of padding. Claiming that his military experience does not matter is at least as stupid as the opposite claim that the Commander in Chief should be prior military.

What's ridiculous isn't the "padding" of McCain's credentials--it's your being FAR too dismissive of them.

Quote :

"You know, last night in McCain's speech, he spoke about how Democrats think government should run your life and solve all of your problems and that Republicans disagree completely. Well then tell me why Republicans spend more time micromanaging your life, faith and morals. "

Yes, yes, we all ask the same question, and there's no good answer for it, and they should get the fuck out of our business in those aspects. That said, McCain has been historically much less of an offender in that regard than many of his GOP peers.
Also, for me personally, I get more infuriated by my money being needlessly taken and squandered than I do by GOP social stances, which often don't even directly affect me (even when I disagree in principle).

the other good question is why the GOP is not not even content to meddle in social issues, and has--as a party--fucked the dog from a fiscal standpoint, too.

However, the bottom line is that I am pretty confident that when you focus the scope of the argument on McCain and Obama, it's pretty clear that Obama wants to try to run your life via the nanny state FAR more than McCain does.

Quote :

"Getting back on topic, McCain is absolutely qualified to be president. Obama is as well. They are both qualified in different areas. What matters is the collective whole."

I don't disagree.

[quote]

6/5/2008 12:48:52 AM

Quote :

"You know, last night in McCain's speech, he spoke about how Democrats think government should run your life and solve all of your problems and that Republicans disagree completel"

I think republicans are worse at this. Trying to regulate morality, enact laws in the name of christian values (i'd say 50% merely stand under this flag in order to enact legislation that in reality aids there corporate/lobbyist interest aka Big Pharma), and regulate the day-to-day affair of my life.

On the other hand democrats merely want to steal my money and devalue my labor into a semi-annual form of slavery ( 35% tax rate including SS/medicare means i am working slave labor for uncle sam January thru April).

My vote is for McCain. Shifting my priorities as i transitioned into graduation i'd rather hide in my closet; smoking my bowl then have obama take more of my paycheck to ensure every crack whore can get double bypass heart surgery after she overdoses.

6/5/2008 2:04:57 AM

Yes, Obama's clearly capitulated to those crack whore lobbyists. I hear they're a major force in Washington.

6/5/2008 2:11:09 AM

the liberal agenda though is crying and boohooing on how the low lifes of society are somehow neglected as well as suppressed by the gov't. Therefore it is their obligation to pander and provide for them. Using this sympathy card they then act to excel their own socialist agenda into the economy.

Honestly if you look at Sweden; life's great if you are old/sick/poor/ a mother of multiple children. They are very socialist there and the above mentioned groups do not have to do much and get to live off the hard diligent work of the swedish work force. I am however single, young, and about to enter the workforce. Mostly I am just not very altruistic. Therefore this type of liberal socialist pacifist lets all live in one big utopian happy society does not help me much. If anything it hinders my grasp for wealth and power that i have been working hard at over the last 5 years; while continuing to do so over the next decade.

[Edited on June 5, 2008 at 2:27 AM. Reason : l]

6/5/2008 2:21:36 AM

Shit, I just watched that last video. Mccain should just stop giving speeches

6/5/2008 2:54:53 AM