let those names always be separated by at least one period from now on. they should never be mentioned in the same breath ever again. i never like mj's tarheel ass but i respected him, and he would have never layed a stinker like this in the finals. especially with the more lenient rules back in the day when guys could maul a player and not get called for a foul.

6/18/2008 12:46:10 AM

thanks. i needed clarification. you gave me it...

6/18/2008 12:50:09 AM

Jordan would have singlehandedly prevented the celtics from scoring 132. Kobe gave up so many of those points eh? What about when 5 guys converged on Kobe in the paint and he passed it...almost the whole series? Jordan would have passed it to himself somehow and drained the 3 on the kickout i guess. Then shutdown kg in the post as well.

6/18/2008 12:55:14 AM

so the 2008 celtics team had significantly better defense than the late 80's/early 90's detroit teams?

Quote :

"Boy, Kobe sure seems to have trouble scoring on these Shane Battier/Paul Pierce types, doesn't he? If someone's a little bigger than him, stays between him and the basket and has the reach to contest his jumper, and if that person is flanked by smart defenders who remain aware of what Kobe is doing at all times, it sure seems Kobe has trouble getting the shots he likes. Not to belabor the point because it's a moot discussion at this point, but MJ didn't have a "kryptonite" flaw. He just didn't. Of everyone from the '90s, John Starks probably defended him the best ... and it's not like Starks was shutting him down or anything. He just made MJ work a little harder for the points he was getting anyway. The point is, Jordan did whatever he wanted during a much more physical era, and when he faced great defensive teams -- like the '89 and '90 Pistons or the '93 Knicks -- nobody ever shackled him or knocked him into a scoring funk. Kobe? He looks a little lost offensively against the Celtics. It's true. Same for the 2004 Finals against Tayshaun Prince, another lanky defensive player with a good reach. Just remember to mention this on his NBA tombstone some day."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080617

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 1:00 AM. Reason : and the fact that you mention kg's play shows you didnt really watch]

6/18/2008 1:00:10 AM

I'm not even going to post this time. I'm just going to leave key terms that sum it up.

illegal defense

pippen

help

umbrella

competition

teammates

6/18/2008 1:07:06 AM

i'll even make it more simple:

ego

6/18/2008 1:13:07 AM

Quote :

"I dont know why anyone replies to the daire he/she/it is one of the worst sports talk posters on this site "

6/18/2008 1:34:52 AM

Michael Jordan may be the greatest of all time but he still wouldn't have accomplished a single title without Pippen.

It's a team sport, no matter how good you are.

If you want to say that Kobe Bryant isn't as good as Michael Jordan then you aren't going to get much argument from anyone.

That being said, their games are not that much different.

6/18/2008 2:05:55 AM

kobe is only comparable to jordan in a relative sense, obviously. literally it is distasteful to even put ANY player on par with jordan. albeit, i think per player, kobe is the best in the nba currently and has been for at least a few years now.

6/18/2008 8:12:19 AM

Quote :

"he/she/it is one of the worst sports talk posters on this site"

6/18/2008 8:15:20 AM

Titles Michael Jordan won without at least one future hall of famer on the team: 0
Titles Kobe Bryant won without at least one future hall of famer on the team: 0

You can hardly fault the guy for Pau Gasol turning into Kwame Brown for a series. It's disappointing, but Kobe's still not even 30, so it's a little early to close the book on him.

Quote :

"That being said, their games are not that much different."

Kobe's a better shooter at this point than Jordan, but lacks the luxury of driving past as many unathletic white guys as Jordan did. That isn't to say though that Jordan wasn't getting drilled while going to the basket, just that he could probably out-athlete about 95% of the league when he played.

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 8:22 AM. Reason : .]

6/18/2008 8:17:54 AM

Quote :

"Titles Michael Jordan won without at least one future hall of famer on the team: 0 Titles Kobe Bryant won without at least one future hall of famer on the team: 0 "

Jordan: 6
Kobe: 3

Phil Jackson is a Hall of Famer

haha, but yes, I see your point

6/18/2008 8:50:48 AM

We could also go with:

NBA titles Michael Jordan had at age 29: 3
NBA titles Kobe Bryant has at age 29: 3

6/18/2008 9:00:33 AM

Quote :

""I dont know why anyone replies to the daire he/she/it is one of the worst sports talk posters on this site ""

someone got hold of the account and just uses it to troll

6/18/2008 9:06:58 AM

I wonder if Duncan will be considered as great as Jordan if he wins 2 more titles.


Also, I always wonder why Jordan is considered greater than Russel.

6/18/2008 11:30:17 AM

Jordan wouldn't have allowed his teammates to keep forcing the ball into Cartwright the way that Radmanovic, Farmar, and everyone else kept trying to get the ball to Gasol (who, btw has worse hands than any Seahawks receiver).

6/18/2008 11:36:48 AM

^^its hard to compare wings and bigs...besides, what has Bill Russell done lately? Kids on playgrounds nowadays don't even wear Jordan jerseys, they wear Lebron/Carmelo/Iverson/Kobe jerseys...they're past Jordan's generation

also I'm sure Kobe would've been shut down in this series if he was being guarded by legendary Jordan defenders such as Brian Russell and Jeff Hornacek...HOW DID JORDAN EVER MANAGE TO SCORE ON HORNACEK IN THE PHOENIX SERIES

6/18/2008 11:41:11 AM

Oh come on....

The problem is the media acts like Kobe is Jordan. If Kobe was't such of a dick then he would have had Shaq still on his team and perhaps he would have another ring...so your argument about Jordan hving Pippen is stupid.

6/18/2008 12:06:34 PM

Shaq is just as much of a dick as Kobe...you think this was completely one-sided? That must explain Shaq throwing the entire Heat organization under the bus...cause he's such a good teammate...thats probably also why his wife divorced him...cause Shaq is the best teammate ever...Shaq was getting old but he didn't want to give up the reigns to Kobe like he was supposed to (see Abdul Jabaar and Magic)...he wanted to still be the team leader because he is selfish

hey how did the Suns do this year? did they win a series? Nash has TWO MVPs! He's better than Kobe (who only has 1 MVP)...but Nash and Shaq couldnt even get out of the first round??

6/18/2008 12:10:24 PM

If Kobe was like Jordan he would have put his personal pride aside to win....thats it. He didn't do that now did he

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 12:12 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2008 12:12:33 PM

i remember what happened the last time Jordan faced the Celtics in the playoffs

he scored 63 in one game and Boston won the series

(Boston put up 135 points that game, btw...back when they played defense in the NBA)

6/18/2008 12:13:37 PM

I knew it was only a matter of time until twista could somehow find a way to bring nash into this.

6/18/2008 12:18:50 PM

1. Nash
2. all other players ever

6/18/2008 12:20:51 PM

if shaq is such a dick, then how come he made kazaam and shaq steel?

6/18/2008 12:21:14 PM

I take everything Bill Simmons writes with a grain of salt

but this is a pretty good assessment on his part

Quote :

"Boy, Kobe sure seems to have trouble scoring on these Shane Battier/Paul Pierce types, doesn't he? If someone's a little bigger than him, stays between him and the basket and has the reach to contest his jumper, and if that person is flanked by smart defenders who remain aware of what Kobe is doing at all times, it sure seems Kobe has trouble getting the shots he likes. Not to belabor the point because it's a moot discussion at this point, but MJ didn't have a "kryptonite" flaw. He just didn't. Of everyone from the '90s, John Starks probably defended him the best ... and it's not like Starks was shutting him down or anything. He just made MJ work a little harder for the points he was getting anyway. The point is, Jordan did whatever he wanted during a much more physical era, and when he faced great defensive teams -- like the '89 and '90 Pistons or the '93 Knicks -- nobody ever shackled him or knocked him into a scoring funk. Kobe? He looks a little lost offensively against the Celtics. It's true. Same for the 2004 Finals against Tayshaun Prince, another lanky defensive player with a good reach. Just remember to mention this on his NBA tombstone some day."

6/18/2008 12:23:06 PM

NBA finals MVPs:

MJ - 6
Kobe - 0

6/18/2008 12:28:42 PM

Quote :

"HOW DID JORDAN EVER MANAGE TO SCORE ON HORNACEK IN THE PHOENIX SERIES"

not to be a dick or anything, but Jeff Hornacek was traded before that season for Barkley

6/18/2008 12:29:04 PM

you're right...Phoenix put "Thunder" Dan Majerle on him....with the occasional dose of Danny Ainge

6/18/2008 12:30:51 PM

Uh, I generally like what Simmons writes, but he hates Kobe like no other player in the NBA. You can see it in every one of his articles about him or the Lakers. It's not like Kobe was guarded 1v1 the entire series. Kobe was double teamed the majority of the time he had the ball on the perimeter and was surrounded by no less than five Celtics every time he put the ball on the floor.

Despite that, and despite Kobe trying to get them involved, no one else on the Lakers could deliver when the Celtics defense was largely ignoring everyone but Kobe. Gasoft and Odumb were useless in every game but the one where Perkins didn't play, and no else stepped up to be a consistent scorer. That and shitty defense is why the Lakers lost. Kobe could have tried to go for 40 in every game, but even if he had, they still would have lost and instead of being criticized for not demanding the ball, he would be called a ball hog. You can't win with Kobe haters, they all have blinders on.

6/18/2008 12:30:51 PM

Quote :

"If Kobe was like Jordan he would have put his personal pride aside to win....thats it. He didn't do that now did he "

How didn't he "put his personal pride aside"?

6/18/2008 12:48:38 PM

Jordan did play pretty hard though..I would too if I had money riding on all my games

6/18/2008 12:49:44 PM

Shaq left LA because of money, nothing more, nothing less. He wanted to be the highest paid player on the team, and when management told him they were going with Kobe instead, he demanded a trade.

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 12:55 PM. Reason : yeah]

6/18/2008 12:53:52 PM

Quote :

"was surrounded by no less than five Celtics every time he put the ball on the floor."

Was he ever surrounded by more?

6/18/2008 12:58:03 PM

Quote :

"if shaq is such a dick, then how come he made kazaam and shaq steel?"

DON'T FORGET SHAQ FU!

Quote :

"Was he ever surrounded by more?"

When in Boston, yes, 3 more.

They were wearing different colors though.

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 1:02 PM. Reason : ]

6/18/2008 1:01:54 PM

Quote :

"Titles Michael Jordan won without at least one future hall of famer on the team: 0 Titles Kobe Bryant won without at least one future hall of famer on the team: 0"

stats be damned!

Quote :

"We could also go with: NBA titles Michael Jordan had at age 29: 3 NBA titles Kobe Bryant has at age 29: 3 "

titles won with kobe as the centerpoint before 29: 0
nba titles for jordan as most outstanding player before 29: 3

and

Quote :

"NBA finals MVPs: MJ - 6 Kobe - 0"

6/18/2008 1:25:29 PM

You think Pippen and Jordan got along? Guess you were not around, he knew he needed him to win, so he put his personal pride aside to win championships....

And I'd rather have some one bet on his team to win than be out raping girls

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2008 2:12:00 PM

the only way Kobe could've won this series is if he had put Odom and Gasol to the side and gotten some better help who actually tried

ps: alleged rape charges didnt get kobe's father murdered

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

6/18/2008 2:14:05 PM

Quote :

" ps: alleged rape charges didnt get kobe's father murdered"

Ouch.

But seriously..I've always thought that athletically and skill-wise, Kobe is right on par with Jordan. He just didn't have it mentally. Then this year he changes his game to adapt to the rest of the players on the team and they're playing amazing basketball. Then he just shits a brick in the Finals. Jordan wouldn't shit a brick in the Finals. Defense be damned, Jordan wouldn't shoot 40% in the finals and 7-22 in a deciding game 6. And its been said a million times, but he also wouldn't lose a game with his team up 24 midway through the third quarter.

I don't know what Kobe could have done...but he could have done something better than he did

6/18/2008 2:25:33 PM

I wonder how the series would've played out with a healthy Bynum in the mix...that would've made a huge difference in the interior game...actually having a strong black center might've helped the Lakers in basketball!

6/18/2008 2:28:10 PM

Wow, you think that is why jordans dad died low blow, but that is not what happened man

6/18/2008 2:41:42 PM

Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kobe.

6/18/2008 2:46:53 PM

^^oh really? then why did it happen?

6/18/2008 2:50:15 PM

Gambling debts, obviously.

6/18/2008 4:17:08 PM

Because MJ couldn't afford to pay his debts right

Go google shit man, come on...

I'm sure Jordan was forced to play baseball because of the Mob, and he retired and then came back to the wizards because Bush wanted him to play near the white house

6/18/2008 5:02:23 PM

Quote :

"I'm Michael Jordan, I'm the man, I'm not gonna pay no two-bit bookie, fuck him, whats he gonna do?"

6/18/2008 5:22:43 PM

I think Shaq needs to team up with Nick Nolte again and make another hit movie like...

6/18/2008 11:45:51 PM

Hmmm, the league is better than it was 10-15 years ago, but Gasol>>>>Cartwright/Luc...Odom<<Pippen (b/c jordan made him better) DFish>>Paxon/Armstrong, Rodmanovic=Kukoc/Ron Harper.....Kobe<<<<<<<<<<<Jordan. Overall I'd take kobe's supporting cast any day of the week, we all saw what happened to Pippen after Jordan left his side. Did Rodman come off the bench, can't remember, kukoc started didn't he?

6/19/2008 12:20:25 AM

Quote :

"we all saw what happened to Pippen after Jordan left his side"

3 consecutive NBA All First Team appearances? led the Blazers to the Western Finals and lost to the Kobe/Shaq Lakers?

6/19/2008 12:23:48 AM

Quote :

"we all saw what happened to Pippen after Jordan left his side"

All-Star MVP?

I really don't understand why so many people think Pippen was terrible. He's, without a doubt, a first ballot hall-of-famer.

[Edited on June 19, 2008 at 12:29 AM. Reason : .]

6/19/2008 12:29:42 AM

he was named one of the greatest 50 players of all time by some people who kind of know what they're talking about

6/19/2008 12:32:14 AM