I am thinking about entering the Air Force early next year if the economy keeps this downward spiral. I have read about the AF at About.com but i wanted some real experience answers to a few questions.

I graduated college with a 4 year degree, what can I expect in terms of pay, rank, etc?

If I apply for officer school and don't make the cut, does that put me a pay grade down or what? what is officer school all about and where do I go after i get out?

What is the process that goes on once you enter on day 1?

How long do i have to sign? will they pay my college loans?

11/28/2008 2:25:18 AM

OTS is all about building leadership; they're not trying to wash people out per se. if for whatever reason you're not doing up to par, you'll probably get pushed back to the next class. if you still can't hack it or if you quit, you go home. entry is competitive, especially for non-technical degrees.

if you wash out or can't get in, you can go enlisted if that's your prerogative--you'll probably start out as an E-3

if you graduate, you'll start out as an O-1

you should probably talk to an officer accession recruiter before you start making plans, you can probably email someone in the afrotc office and get a name--they'd be able to tell you about any education kickers they have now, although the af tends to be a little stingy w/ that

[Edited on November 28, 2008 at 3:57 AM. Reason : &c]

11/28/2008 3:55:15 AM

I have been in the military going on 12 years now. I know no specifics about the Air Force, however I do know there is no program that, should you fail out, you are forced to enlist and be an E-1. That would be the equivalent of applying to be a district manager of a grocery store chain, and not getting hired, but instead being forced to work as a bag boy.

On the flip side, many officer programs that guys apply for as enlisted soldiers/sailors have a clause that if you fail out, then you go BACK to being enlisted. You would think that if a guy is good enough to get selected to be an officer, then something like that would never happen, but it does a lot more than you'd think.

11/28/2008 8:45:14 AM

Quote :

"I know no specifics about the Air Force, however I do know there is no program that, should you fail out, you are forced to enlist and be an E-1."

If you fail out of Army OCS you become enlisted, since you technically enlist in order to go to OCS.

11/28/2008 10:10:19 AM

What could cause one to fail out?

11/28/2008 10:12:52 AM

For the Navy, it depends.

If you're in a program where the Navy is paying for your degree and you fail OCS (or faill to graduate), you'll end up enlisted.

If you join after earning your degree and fail OCS, they'll just boot you.

It takes effort to fail OCS (see FykalJpn's post). Depending on why you fail, there may be long-term repercussions that follow you outside the military.

I'd also encourage you to look at all the services. They all offer different programs--see what everyone has to offer.

11/28/2008 10:48:33 AM

Quote :

"I have read about the AF at About.com but i wanted some real experience answers to a few questions. I graduated college with a 4 year degree, what can I expect in terms of pay, rank, etc? If I apply for officer school and don't make the cut, does that put me a pay grade down or what? what is officer school all about and where do I go after i get out? What is the process that goes on once you enter on day 1? How long do i have to sign? will they pay my college loans?"

while reading on about.com is probably informative, a lot of these questions can be easily answered on the air force site

plus you can call to set up an appointment with a recruiter (probably the best option if you are SERIOUSLY considering it) or there's even a "live" support thing on their website that can answer questions. but yea, you can find info about AF, Army, Navy (including pay scales...at least on the army and navy websites) on the recruiting website.

11/28/2008 12:59:46 PM

go coast guard. were way more fun! i went to 14 diff countries this summer.

11/28/2008 8:08:37 PM

i have my degree in computer science.

11/29/2008 1:06:27 AM

Um, what? Jobs for people with CSC degrees are some of the most in demand, even with a jacked up economy. Why the hell would you want to join the air force?

11/29/2008 1:11:14 AM

too lazy to look harder for a job?

11/29/2008 5:50:39 PM

Quote :

"It takes effort to fail OCS "

Not so in Marine OCS. I think the overall attrition rate is probably a solid 50%.

Quote :

"If you're in a program where the Navy is paying for your degree and you fail OCS (or faill to graduate), you'll end up enlisted. "

[quote]

From what I've seen, there is often the option to simply pay back all the tuition they've covered. Basically, they're not in the business of paying for people's college for the sake of charity.


but yeah, i would join the AF becuase i wanted to join the AF...not because you haven't found a job.

[Edited on November 29, 2008 at 6:04 PM. Reason : asdfsd]

11/29/2008 6:03:33 PM

I've ran down and applied for every company just about in the RTP and nothing yet.

Quote :

"i would join the AF becuase i wanted to join the AF...not because you haven't found a job. "

this is a good statement. If I do join it will because I want to.

11/29/2008 6:49:58 PM

why not look outside of RTP eh. we're hiring in wisconsin and boy is it swell (madison actually reminds me a lot of raleigh, but more fun).

11/29/2008 6:55:32 PM

Quote :

"I am thinking about entering the Air Force early next year if the economy keeps this downward spiral."

Should you actually follow through and join the military, with this statement you hereby relinquish all rights to claim any US campaign unjust, unfair, or against your beliefs. Your family also loses these rights.

I will assume that you personally have better reason to join the military than financial gain.

However, there are many others who join for the benefits (there are many) yet are also willing to denounce the provider of these benefits when faced with the perils (there are also many) of military life.

My point is that any who join should know that they are not only agreeing to the physical rewards and glory of fighting for a just cause, but also the detriments of sacrificing conscience (should the cause prove unjust) body and life. Please make sure you and your family are willing to agree to this should you decide to join.

Good Luck

12/1/2008 2:35:25 PM

^

12/1/2008 2:57:34 PM

^ What the problem is? I think the military is a great and honorable career choice when made for the right reasons.

12/1/2008 3:02:55 PM

Quote :

"I am thinking about entering the Air Force early next year if the economy keeps this downward spiral. I have read about the AF at About.com but i wanted some real experience answers to a few questions. I graduated college with a 4 year degree, what can I expect in terms of pay, rank, etc? If I apply for officer school and don't make the cut, does that put me a pay grade down or what? what is officer school all about and where do I go after i get out? What is the process that goes on once you enter on day 1? How long do i have to sign? will they pay my college loans?"

Ill start off by saying I spent 8 years in the AF and have much more insight in to the inner-workings than most of the posts in here.

First you have to make sure that the AF is actively recruiting people with your degree. You have rated and non-rated officer slots which will determine which career field you are eligible to apply for. That mostly has to do with flyers vs non flyers, but there are technical vs services type career fields. For example, cops vs communication officers have much different skill sets.

Then you have to take the AFOQT which assesses your strengths. You can read about this online.

Then you are off to OCS if your recruiter can find you a slot given your degree, AFOQT, score, fitness level @ MEPS, etc.

It does not require any effort to fail out of OCS. OCS is pretty damn difficult for every branch. OCS is about leadership, but its also holistic in management, accountability, law, and responsibility.

If you cant hang with the group youre in (fail some classes for example), youll be washed back to the next class if there is space for you. If you wash out of that class youll be sent home and in to the enlisted ranks.

You will then become an E3 which you will be required to stay for 4 years until you meet the eligibility for promotion to E5. If you make it through OCS to become an O1, it will take about 4 years or so to make O3, possibly O4 if youre an overachiever.

The military is a fantastic choice for a first job. It looks superb on resumes and the pay isnt bad at all, especially considering everything on base is tax free, and the commissary is cheap as fuck. Housing is also free.

I too would join the AF because you wanted to, not because you couldnt find a job. However you have to look at the dynamics of the situation. There isnt a lot of demand in hiring right now in this area, especially people with a degree and no experience. The industry is pretty saturated right now.

[Edited on December 1, 2008 at 4:41 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2008 4:40:18 PM

You are considering the military because you can't find a job in one TINY market area?

Why not start looking for jobs, oh, everywhere? Because if you join the military, you will damn sure be moving, so you might as well own up to the reality/possibility of doing so for a regular job.

12/1/2008 9:11:13 PM

^^ no way anyone's making Major in anywhere near 4 years.

^ yeah, in the last 4.5 years, I've lived in NC, VA, FL, WA, back to NC, and Iraq.

12/1/2008 9:42:32 PM

^ Medical Officers can, otherwise you are correct. Major has 10 years TIG.

^^ You think this market is tiny?

[Edited on December 1, 2008 at 10:08 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2008 10:07:29 PM

ah, ok, wasn't counting that. even that's probably a stretch, unless you count their time in med school.

12/1/2008 10:15:36 PM

Nah, when I was premed (and an A1C) I looked in to all of that.

General Medicine Docs come in as Captains, specialists like Emergency Medicine, Pediatrics, Neurosurgeons, etc come in as Majors. As far as promotions I dont think they get promoted in forfuckingever though. But who knows, its the Air Force where almost everything is waiverable. Its the one branch where the pen really is mightier than the sword, and its kinda pathetic in that regard.

Im hoping I can become commissioned myself in the next year or so. I have to fight eligibility because of a herniated disk. I have a feeling its gonna be a rough one.

[Edited on December 1, 2008 at 10:20 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2008 10:19:21 PM

^ while I was in Newport I knew of a doctor in Direct Commission Officer school, and he was a LT Commander (O-4). It's the only way their pay is anything close to what it would be in the civilian world. And there's no limit on the number of medical or dental officers O4 and above, like there is for other specialties.

so maybe Novicane should look into dentistry

12/1/2008 11:07:59 PM

if you're in the af band, you start out at e-6

12/1/2008 11:29:39 PM

christ, when my dad got his PhD in Soviet Politics and Economics at Duke in the 70's, the Navy offered him direct commission as a commander in Naval Intelligence, but a college degree ain't gonna get you shit besides some butter bars

and i've never heard of someone not getting into the service because they majored in english instead of aeronautical engineering, but then again the air force is all kinds of retarded

12/2/2008 12:22:16 AM

Quote :

"christ, when my dad got his PhD in Soviet Politics and Economics at Duke in the 70's, the Navy offered him direct commission as a commander in Naval Intelligence"

This is no different today. Professional degrees will come in at higher base ranks than standard bachelors degrees. A Commander is 0-4 which is what some PhD's come in as depending on their specialty and if you have post doctoral training, publications, etc etc. Although this was in the 70's and his concentration would have netted him a pretty high rank given the nature of the times. It is my perception that PhD's usually come in as O-3 (pending on your area of study it can earn O-4), and some Masters Degrees can come in as O-3, everything else earns you O-1.

The same scale applies to the enlisted force. If you have a bachelors degree you come in as E-3. Depending on how many hours of college you have completed you come in as an E-0, E-1, or E-2.

Quote :

"and i've never heard of someone not getting into the service because they majored in english instead of aeronautical engineering, but then again the air force is all kinds of retarded"

This is how all branches work. Each branch has officer boards bi-annually, if not more frequently. They assess the needs of the branch (USAF for this example) and what degrees they will accept for those career fields.

I know of history and music majors that ended up being pilots. I know art majors that ended up being security forces officers. But when I inquired earlier this year the only degree Active Duty was considering for communications officers were Electrical and Mechanical engineering degrees. You can imagine the battle of wit and logic I had with the recruiter about how much fucking sense that made. Especially since I am a Staff Sergeant in a communications career field. To that extent youre right, it makes no sense and the USAF is all kinds of fucked sideways, in more ways than one.

It honestly makes me want to join the Navy, but I wouldnt have to go through boot in the Army. Then again the Army is just as fucked in some respects as the AF.

[Edited on December 2, 2008 at 1:08 AM. Reason : .]

12/2/2008 1:07:23 AM

There is at least one instance where a doc came in as an O5. When your retention level is absolute shit this is what happens

12/2/2008 3:41:25 AM

Pretty sure that certain specialists have always been given O5. It just depends on the rarity and the need. Rank in those support roles doesn't mean much more than a pay grade.

12/2/2008 4:51:06 AM

I think just offering a special pay bonus is better than inflating their rank. that's the way the navy flight docs are--they're usually O-3 (I think sometimes O-2) by the time they hit the fleet, but they get bonuses and special pays to make up for it.

12/2/2008 8:12:53 AM

Quote :

"You think this market is tiny?"

yes. RTP is a far larger market than some places, but limiting yourself to just it will cripple your job search. theres plenty of other people doing the same thing. think of how many colleges are confined to this area as well.

12/2/2008 4:50:10 PM

I teach for NROTC at Penn State. If you get kicked out of Navy ROTC you almost 99% of the time payback the money they spent on you. There is a small chance of going enlisted but that rarely happens.

If you want to go Navy and Subs I can answer any questions you may have. If you're really interested, I can talk with the Air Force guys in my building and ask any specific questions you may have.

I'm a O-3 and will make 100k this year. You'll start off around 40k a year and build up every year.

12/2/2008 6:05:22 PM

some people (don't ask me who) would rather stay close to loved ones and work for minimum wage than move to another area.

12/2/2008 6:12:36 PM

I spent a little time in the Coast Guard and liked it. Nice duty stations and great quality of life. You also don't face much of a risk of long overseas deployments in hostile places. They also push continuing education and you could probably get them to pay for your Masters.

12/2/2008 6:27:08 PM

Quote :

"I'm a O-3 and will make 100k this year."

Sorry but Im calling severe bullshit on that.

You arent making anywhere close to that unless you are including special duty pay, BAH, and BAS. Even then I highly doubt your pulling anywhere close to 100k. O-6 is probable, O-3 not so much.

A 10 year O-3 makes 5156/month which is about 62K per year. Im pretty confident you arent pulling another 40K per year in special duty pay, BAH, and BAS.

12/2/2008 7:48:14 PM

If you want to get technical it breaks down like this:
I'm an O-3 over 6
Base pay: 4763.10/month
BAH ( Married, State College, PA): 1336.00/month
BAS: 202.76
Sub pay: 595.00/month

All of that means my annual salary is 82762.32
I also get a yearly bonus called Nuclear Officer Continuation Pay which is 30k a year

Therefore my gross income is $112762.32

12/2/2008 8:04:59 PM

lol, wut?

12/2/2008 8:30:40 PM

Quote :

"Sorry but Im calling severe bullshit on that. You arent making anywhere close to that unless you are including special duty pay, BAH, and BAS. Even then I highly doubt your pulling anywhere close to 100k. O-6 is probable, O-3 not so much. A 10 year O-3 makes 5156/month which is about 62K per year. Im pretty confident you arent pulling another 40K per year in special duty pay, BAH, and BAS."

robzeko is telling the absolute truth. I am also an O-3, and I have been in the Navy for a little over 11 years now, some of it being enlisted. Rob and I are basically in the same boat, although I make a bit more due to my prior service. Another thing to consider, the BAS and BAH are non taxed, so that works out really well.

And as to all the people who are giving you shit because you are considering the military as a financial decision..... just ignore them. Many (I am tempted to say MOST) of the people I work with in the submarine force (who by the way are considered by many the some of the best personnel in the entire military) have made the decision due to financial reasons. They are awesome at their jobs, and quite committed. As someone else mentioned though, you HAVE to accept the fact that you may be sent somewhere you don't want to go, and that you might be doing things you may not normally agree with.

I respect you for even considering the military. It's not an easy way of life sometimes, but sometimes it is awesome. It has its perks (ie I am pretty damn sure I don't have to worry about losing my job) and of course it has its downers. Good luck on what ever you decide to do.

12/2/2008 8:47:21 PM

Quote :

"If you want to get technical it breaks down like this: I'm an O-3 over 6 Base pay: 4763.10/month BAH ( Married, State College, PA): 1336.00/month BAS: 202.76 Sub pay: 595.00/month All of that means my annual salary is 82762.32 I also get a yearly bonus called Nuclear Officer Continuation Pay which is 30k a year Therefore my gross income is $112762.32"

Your income is based on your base pay and your bonus, nothing more.

BAH and BAS is intended to provide you with food and housing just as if you were stationed on base. Just because they write you a check for it doesnt not mean it is income. In this context income is limited to TAXED pay, being thats what the government bases your income on.

I also have no idea how youre being paid sub pay when youre teaching ROTC. That makes no sense.

4763.10 x 12 = 57,157 + 30K = 87,157K

With sub pay youre at 94k but as I said, youre teaching ROTC so I have no idea how your getting sub pay.

[Edited on December 2, 2008 at 10:03 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2008 9:57:15 PM

Quote :

"If you have a bachelors degree you come in as E-3. Depending on how many hours of college you have completed you come in as an E-0, E-1, or E-2."

When did they make E-0?

12/2/2008 10:03:39 PM

About time someone caught that

There is no E-0, sometimes my friends and I will lay an egg like that to see if anyone catches it. When we were in uniform we used to salute 0-1's with our left hand... yea it was a shame how many officers didnt catch on.



[Edited on December 2, 2008 at 10:08 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2008 10:08:17 PM

yeah, all my mistakes are on purpose too

12/2/2008 10:17:29 PM

wut you're an idiot. Money is money. I could care less if the military wants to pay me $0.01 as a base pay, and $100,000 in BAH. The fact is, every 2 weeks, there is close to $4000 in my bank account, and that every year I get a check for $30,000. But seriously, I really appreciate you educating me on what my income is based on. Oh, let me educate you. If you're a sub volunteer, you get sub pay all the time, regardless of whether your stationed on a sub. Should I count this as income?? Or is it just a big fucking pile of money I have to keep stashed under my bed to throw at burglars when they break in?

[Edited on December 2, 2008 at 10:22 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2008 10:21:21 PM

Anyone looking to buy in Monument? 4,500 sq feet, built in 2008, 5 minutes from I-25, on 5.4 acres. ^I'll finance if you wanna come back

http://denver.craigslist.org/reb/934135290.html

[Edited on December 2, 2008 at 10:25 PM. Reason : ^]

12/2/2008 10:23:50 PM

12/2/2008 10:29:26 PM

Quote :

" wut you're an idiot. "

No, Im pragmatic.

Quote :

"Money is money."

They all say this until you move to a place that pays shit for BAH and BAS.

Your actual income is not over 100K. But I can understand your enthusiasm for wanting to project that milestone.

You still dont make 100K a year, according to the federal government.

Quote :

"yeah, all my mistakes are on purpose too"

Half truths



[Edited on December 2, 2008 at 10:59 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2008 10:51:05 PM

Yes, I want to project that milestone just so I can impress people like you. I actually do it to contradict uninformed idiots like you who try and convince people they cannot make a good living in the service.

The fact is (I'm sure you already know this because you seem so well educated,) I have been stationed 6 places since I have been in the Navy (Orlando, Charleston, Seattle, NY, Connecticut, and Raleigh). The BAH for my paygrade (O3E) is anywhere from $1450-$2000ish in every one of those places. And furthermore, any place that I have even a snowball's chance in hell of being stationed has at LEAST that, sometimes more. Take a look: http://perdiem.hqda.pentagon.mil/perdiem/bah.html

So, while I am not sure what you are meaning about "the federal government does not say I make $100k a year", I can promise you, that much shows up in my account each and every year, and it will continue to do so no matter where I get stationed. That is plenty good enough for me and I imagine it's good enough for just about anyone.

So do yourself and the people actually posting facts in this thread a favor and go troll somewhere else.

12/2/2008 11:27:49 PM

Quote :

"I actually do it to contradict uninformed idiots like you who try and convince people they cannot make a good living in the service."

For one Im not uninformed as I spent 8 years in the service and Im fully aware of per diem rates. I traveled a lot too, nationally and internationally. Im far from an idiot as well, but of course Im willing to bet your ego, instead of your mind, fights most of your battles. Must be one macho macho man, Navy man.

Like it or not, your income according to the Government is not 100K. Get over it because youre awfully defensive about it.

Oh and you should spend some time on wikipedia or google and actually learn what a troll is. Ill give you a hint, its not someone who disagrees with you on a topic, nor is it anyone you accuse of being so merely because youre being defensive.

Second of all please show me, before your foot is any further down your throat, where I said you cannot make a good living in the service.



[Edited on December 2, 2008 at 11:41 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2008 11:37:36 PM

Well... let's see. While you never explicitly stated that, you basically called robzeko a liar:

Quote :

"Sorry but Im calling severe bullshit on that. You arent making anywhere close to that unless you are including special duty pay, BAH, and BAS. Even then I highly doubt your pulling anywhere close to 100k. O-6 is probable, O-3 not so much. A 10 year O-3 makes 5156/month which is about 62K per year. Im pretty confident you arent pulling another 40K per year in special duty pay, BAH, and BAS."

Then, you make several statements which show you are totally ignorant:

Quote :

"The same scale applies to the enlisted force. If you have a bachelors degree you come in as E-3. Depending on how many hours of college you have completed you come in as an E-0, E-1, or E-2."

(You backpedal later after someone calls you out)

Quote :

"Your income is based on your base pay and your bonus, nothing more. BAH and BAS is intended to provide you with food and housing just as if you were stationed on base. Just because they write you a check for it doesnt not mean it is income. In this context income is limited to TAXED pay, being thats what the government bases your income on."

Feel free to call it what you want. Thank you for your excellent definiteion of what you think income is. If money is coming in, it's income.

Quote :

"With sub pay youre at 94k but as I said, youre teaching ROTC so I have no idea how your getting sub pay."

This from all your experience in the Navy and sub fleet, no?

12/2/2008 11:51:31 PM

I'm going to have to side with AngryPotato. $100k in your bank acount is $100k, no matter what labels you throw on it.

FYI, all jobs include cost-of-living in their salaries under various names or under no name. It's all compensation just the same.

(and it figures some carolina-loving fag would get into a tizzy over a distinction without a difference)


[Edited on December 2, 2008 at 11:57 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2008 11:54:27 PM