Well we've wrapped up yet another terrible year in basketball. All the Lowe supporters who frequent sports talk told the ones who did not like the direction our program was heading under Lowe to get back to them at the end of the year. Well here we are, 6-11 in ACC play and losing in the very first round of the ACC tournament for the second straight year.

We ALL know that Lowe has a great history with the pack as a player on the team in 1983, when most of the posters here were not born or cannot remember. He is definitely a historic figure of NC State athletics, but the fact of the matter is that we hired an unproven NBA assistant coach (1 of about 180) and asked him to be a head coach in the ACC. His record as a head coach in the NBA was one of the worst in the history of all professional sports, and we foolishly decided to take a chance on him soley because he was on our 83 national champioship team.

Three years is adequate time to pull a team (that he put there in the first place) out of the shitter of the ACC. Lowe has consistently been out coached for the past three years in this league, and our record is proof enough of that. We have missed on all of our big recruits for 09, and there is no logical reason to have optimism regarding basketball program in the future, both long-term and short.

I am well aware that this thread will receive a lot of heat, but I expect that it should not be locked as many fans such as myself think that Lowe being fired is the best thing to do for this program, perception by the media be damned. There are many young up and coming mid major coaches with proven winning records that would absolutely love to coach in the ACC and receive a giant pay increase.

The embarrassment that we've had to endure for the past three years needs to end. The sooner the better.

3/13/2009 11:37:26 AM

Two years from now, if we don't make the tourney then this will be a good thread. Right now, after only three years... it isn't.

3/13/2009 11:39:34 AM

is anyone else sick of these fucking dumbasses that post stupid ass threads over and over like this shit. the hell with TWW.

3/13/2009 11:40:40 AM

^^pretty much ends the thread i'd say.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 11:41 AM. Reason : ^^]

3/13/2009 11:40:57 AM

I'll give him one more year to improve. It'd be hard for anyone to win with McCauley, Costner, and Fells as your go-to guys. Other than Horner, everyone on next years' team will be from Lowe's tenure. He needs to show that he can make progress with his own players in his own system.

3/13/2009 11:42:17 AM

Brilliant!

This way lo brown, howell, wood and leslie can all decommit and we will be screwed

3/13/2009 11:43:33 AM

Quote :

"Right now, after only three years... it isn't."

This is where you expected our basketball program to be 3 years after Lowe was hired?

^ either way we are screwed, Lowe has shown that he gets out coached. It's equivalent to Amato and his "season of inches". It was the same exact shit every single game.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 11:45 AM. Reason : []

3/13/2009 11:44:06 AM

Quote :

"Three years is adequate time to pull a team (that he put there in the first place) out of the shitter of the ACC."

You mean Lowe forced half the team to lose about a third of the prospective scholarship players his first year to de-commits and NBA?

3/13/2009 11:44:47 AM

it isn't, but I didn't expect such poor performance from guys who two years ago would be fighting for 1st team ACC

3/13/2009 11:45:29 AM

Honestly, we have a 104 page thread with you shitting on Lowe, leave it there.



mods...please end this before it gets ugly.

3/13/2009 11:47:03 AM

They've ALL regressed. Under coach Lowe. All three of them have regressed under Lowe.

Why the fuck has Julius Mays been riding the pine for the past 10 or so games while we put Degand out there to completely fuck up? This is only the latest example that he doesn't know what he is doing. The things he has done in the past 3 years are absolutely mind boggling. Basic shit. Like playing your best players.

^ exactly, 104 pages of his coaching being questioned. This thread is about how we need a new direction for our basketball program. Think big picture and long term, the writing is all over the wall.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 11:51 AM. Reason : []

3/13/2009 11:49:04 AM

Quote :

"This is where you expected our basketball program to be 3 years after Lowe was hired?"

Honestly? Yeah... I thought he was a terrible hire and had no business coaching a college basketball team. I'm critical of him. Actually, I'm more critical of him than most (and frankly -- and this is probably going to sound bad -- I think that's because I have a better understanding of the game than most on here) because I'm not afraid to be critical of my favorite teams -- I'm a New Yorker!

That said, we hired the guy and we HAVE to give him time to both adjust to the college game and to get a full compliment of his own players.

Do I think he is going to be the guy to get us to the next level? Nope. Hell, I don't even think he can get us back to the level we were at during the last part of Herb's tenure... but it's an injustice to him and to his players if we don't give him that chance.

Plus, we can't get Jay Wright yet with the monster recruiting class he put together... In two years, maybe he'll be more available

^^ don't lock it. this is a different topic and there could be some good discussion here too...

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 11:50 AM. Reason : this isn't packpride]

3/13/2009 11:49:32 AM

And hire who?

You think that the best coaches in the country are lining up to come here? I know people always have the "hire the young guy from that mid major that did well the last 2 years" approach, but those guys are risky as shit. To fire Lowe and not have a great coach waiting just resets everything 3-4 years like when Herb left. Newsflash, coaching bball at NC State although not a bad job isn't as highly a desired coaching position as people think. Let the guy get his recruits on the court, and go from there.

What I will say though is that Lowe is the worst coach in college basketball when comes to teaching inbound plays/sets. I've never seen a team struggle to inbound the ball from anywhere on the court like we do..

3/13/2009 11:52:04 AM

Quote :

"Like playing your best players."

WTF do you think he did last year and look where that got us

Its not lowes fault that his veteran playmakers have sand in their vaginas

This post is just a carbon copy of collective posts in the credibility thread.

lock it up ftw1

3/13/2009 11:58:31 AM

Quote :

"I know people always have the "hire the young guy from that mid major that did well the last 2 years" approach, but those guys are risky as shit."

That's better than completely fucking up a search like Lee Fowler did and hire your "consultant"

Lowe cannot go anywhere till Jed Clampett is out. Hire Charlie Cobb and let him hire his own coach.

Quote :

"Plus, we can't get Jay Wright yet with the monster recruiting class he put together... In two years, maybe he'll be more available "

Do you think there is any chance we could actually pull him away from Villanova?

3/13/2009 11:58:58 AM

Quote :

"I know people always have the "hire the young guy from that mid major that did well the last 2 years" approach, but those guys are risky as shit."

The risky as shit part sounds exactly our last basketball hire. At least we would have someone who has proven they can win with the talent they have. NC State is a basketball school, and a lot of people on here have been conditioned by our sub par performance the past 20 years to be jaded and expect mediocrity. We have great tradition and I think we have every right to expect year in and year out to be competing for championships. Lowe is not going to be competing for any championships. It is what it is, and I personally think we need to tear it all down and start from scratch.

Finishing bottom of the league for the past 3 years is not something that should be ignored.

Quote :

"This post is just a carbon copy of collective posts in the credibility thread."

No it is not. I've reached my breaking point with this coach. I'm calling for him to be fired. Everybody says give him more time, give him more time! We've had three years and he can't pull the team from the bottom of the ACC. I'm not asking him to win the ACC in his third year, but show some improvement where it matters, the win loss column.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:05 PM. Reason : .]

3/13/2009 12:02:25 PM

NYM...If it were full of people like you posting, i'd be fine with it, but this thread is a massive troll attempt by a guy who has done nothing but bash lowe no matter what after every loss this season. Comments like:

Quote :

"Think big picture and long term, the writing is all over the wall. "

ruin any good intention he had. There's no basis for the argument to get rid of him other than the fact that people are pissed that we keep losing. I'm not giving Lowe a free pass. I think he should be getting a little more out of this team, but the reality is, if you fire him now, you're in for a world of hurt when you go search for that next coach.

We've already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that we can't go out and hand pick our next coach. Plus, the guy doing the picking is a fucking retard.

Best option would be to fire Fowler, and have the new AD give Lowe a 2 ultimatum. Then he can do the new hiring. The big guns didn't bite on over 2 million dollars to coach here.

In addition, if we're going to leave this thread open...how about a new rule. Every time you say you want Lowe fired, you give a legit replacement option....sound fair? I don't think anyone here can do it. The better discussion would be on who could get the job done without being run out of town in 3 years, and who would want to come in the first place.

^dude....what the hell is different between now and the beginning of the season? We were picked dead last in the conference and had no new blood that was supposed to contribute, and we lost our best player. In all honesty, we overachieved this year. You can't just babble about how unsatisfied you are without posting all of the facts. Is it disappointing that we keep losing to maryland and Miami? yes. But on paper are we supposed to beat those teams? fuck no. Come on man.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 12:05:08 PM

Quote :

"There's no basis for the argument to get rid of him other than the fact that people are pissed that we keep losing."

that's my argument

3/13/2009 12:08:14 PM

There are more reasons than the coach why we lose.


Like I say, I'm not giving him a free pass. I think he should get more out of this team. However, its hard when your veterans are the ones making the mistakes. Its hard when the young guys step up and the veterans aren't there to back them up, and its hard when the young guys that looked likethey turned the corner have an off night.

Its not all on the team, but it ain't all on lowe either.



see how the fuck is this different from the Lowe credibility thread?

3/13/2009 12:10:49 PM

Quote :

"But on paper are we supposed to beat those teams? fuck no. Come on man. "

Yes we were predicted to be bad so are we just supposed to be okay with it?

Also if you want to look on paper, we have better players according to recruit rankings than Miami and Maryland. We could twist your argument that way too. I have said all year that we have talent. Its a combination of the coaching staff and players alike not playing to their potential.

3/13/2009 12:11:06 PM

Quote :

"I think he should get more out of this team. However, its hard when your veterans are the ones making the mistakes. Its hard when the young guys step up and the veterans aren't there to back them up, and its hard when the young guys that looked likethey turned the corner have an off night."

You basically said it yourself. Lowe should be getting a lot more out of this team. The rest of your quote is the head coaches job to get these players to play their best game. 3 years of being piss poor should not be accepted of our basketball program.

3/13/2009 12:15:37 PM

^^Thats my point though...you can't put it all on Lowe. He does deserve some heat, but you can't fire him for this season just because we didn't play as well as people wanted us to.



^WE'RE PLAYING WITH THE SAME FUCKING PLAYERS WE PLAYED WITH FOR THE LAST 3 SEASONS OF GARBAGE. FIRE LOWE FOR HERB'S RECRUITS YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SEE I CAN BE AN IDIOT TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:18 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 12:16:42 PM

Quote :

"All the Lowe supporters who frequent sports talk told the ones who did not like the direction our program was heading under Lowe to get back to them at the end of the year."

wrong.

Quote :

"Three years is adequate time to pull a team (that he put there in the first place) out of the shitter of the ACC."

wrong.

Quote :

"We have missed on all of our big recruits for 09, and there is no logical reason to have optimism regarding basketball program in the future, both long-term and short."

wrong. We have missed on Cousins and Favors. We probably will miss on Wall. But you do know we have 2 highly ranked players coming in, as well as a guy who has been noted as a huge sleeper prospect by many services, right? I don't say that indicates no logical reason to have optimism for the program.

You can't tell me that the upperclassmen fulfilled their end of the deal this year. You simply can't say that. Fells and Costner disappeared completely, and McCauley played pretty well in stretches. Our freshmen and sophomores improved throughout the season, don't you agree?

Hey man, I know you're frustrated, we all are. But we're stuck with the coach we have. You think we're going to buy out his contract, throw him to the curb, and get someone better? Jesus H, especially after how terrible State fans are portrayed in the media, you think coaches are chomping at the bit?

We tried to get proven coaches. THEY DIDN'T WANT TO COME HERE.

What about this situation has changed since?

If our upperclassmen aren't going to lead us to where we want to go, it's a pretty shitty situation. But can you blame Lowe? After these same guys bitched last year when JJ started? Its clear that there are some character problems with at least one of the three. Our underclassmen are improving, lets get our next class in here and see what happens. Hopefully we improve, and then we've got another really solid class for '10 started, and we can see what happens there.


and to add on to what others were saying, yeah, Lowe deserves a portion of the blame here. But we were predicted to be shitty, we were shitty, so i don't see what the big deal is.

I mean, shit, if Kentucky isn't going to crucify Gillispie yet, it blows my mind how you guys can call for Lowe's head.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:25 PM. Reason : .]

3/13/2009 12:21:14 PM

We really only missed on favors. Cousins was a long shot that our staff thought they had a better "in" with than they actually did. We didn't spend a ridiculous amount of time recruiting him like we did with Favors and Wall though.

We'll see what wall does. I don't feel different about him than I did a week ago just because of that article. I've always felt like its maybe 60-40 memphis to state anyway.

3/13/2009 12:28:28 PM

If they are TRULY bad for the team then it is the coaches job to get them off of the team. That is part of his job. Lowe apparently thinks they are good for the team and that they should be starters for the team. That is his decision he made.

He doesn't perform his job well. Look at the win loss column for the past three years for the most blatant proof.

If you want to nit pick, then why did we not use this season to develop Julius Mays? He has worlds more potential than Dennis Horner, but Horner got incredible amounts of play time. Why not Mays? I'm not saying I'm a coach or anything, but that seems pretty obvious. It seems pretty obvious that being one of the worst teams in the ACC for the past THREE years is also indicative of not being a good coach.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:35 PM. Reason : []

3/13/2009 12:33:09 PM

are you really making a comparison between julius mays and dennis horner? Horner isn't that fucking bad, but I guess you just want to shit on anything and everything because you're so unhappy with our terrible program.

and, Sid was pretty dedicated to Farnold. He really wanted Farnold to work out. obviously, he didn't, but saying that Mays would have been that better may be a bit of a stretch. Mays scored some points last night, but he did a piss poor job of setting up our offense.

I can't believe that you think that there was a certain permutation of players on this team that Lowe could have used to make a winning season. And yet, when Lowe TRIED TO FIGURE OUT THAT ROTATION, you shit all over him for terrible substitution patterns. HE TRIED EVERYTHING HE COULD TRY.

You know, we just don't have a relevant basketball program anymore. We're terrible. We've been irrelevant for twenty years. It's not changing anytime soon. Its not a quick fix. We're in a foxhole with Lowe right now, and it'd be stupid as hell to leave him in there alone to die.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:41 PM. Reason : GOD FORBID OUR PROBABLE STARTING PF FOR NEXT YEAR GET TONS OF PT!!!]

3/13/2009 12:38:08 PM

Let's put it this way. Big picture here. What do the Lowe supporters consider to be successful tenure for Lowe? I've already heard that us finishing 6-11 in ACC play and finishing 10th was over achieving this year, in his THIRD season. That is very telling. Do you think it is possible Lowe can win a national championship? Isn't that the ultimate goal for our program? Do you think it is even possible Lowe can win an ACC championship?

The past three years we haven't even made it to a tournament that fields 65 teams. 3 years. We haven't come close. Lowe is not likely the coach that is going to make that happen.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:45 PM. Reason : []

3/13/2009 12:43:53 PM

Oh man just think how smart Duke would of been if they got rid of Coach K after his first three years.

1980-81 Duke 17-13 6-8 T–5th
1981-82 Duke 10-17 4-10 T–6th
1982-83 Duke 11-17 3-11 7th


OhBoyeee, firing Lowe is only going to make the program more of a joke.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 12:47:17 PM

if you guys stop giving him attention for his nonsense, it'll go away

3/13/2009 12:48:33 PM

lock

3/13/2009 12:49:19 PM

No it won't, something is severely wrong with this dude.

I thought he was just a really passionate fan or something, but he's just trying to be a dick.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM. Reason : message_topic.aspx?topic=560989]

3/13/2009 12:49:44 PM

Quote :

"is anyone else sick of these fucking dumbasses that post stupid ass threads over and over like this shit. "

Yes!

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=558867

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 12:50:16 PM

anyone that posts stupid ass topics like this should be instantly perma-banned

3/13/2009 12:56:14 PM

Fire Sidney Lower Suspend OhBoyee

3/13/2009 12:56:53 PM

Quote :

"Let's put it this way. Big picture here. What do the Lowe supporters consider to be successful tenure for Lowe? I've already heard that us finishing 6-11 in ACC play and finishing 10th was over achieving this year, in his THIRD season. That is very telling. Do you think it is possible Lowe can win a national championship? Isn't that the ultimate goal for our program? Do you think it is even possible Lowe can win an ACC championship? The past three years we haven't even made it to a tournament that fields 65 teams. 3 years. We haven't come close. Lowe is not likely the coach that is going to make that happen."

Nobody wants to respond to this? The blind support for this guy is mesmerizing. Just talking around the facts and bringing up coach K. I'd absolutely love to know the odds that Lowe becomes as successful as K.

3/13/2009 12:57:12 PM

further proof that you're just trolling. Its a stupid post...and...nobody here is blindly suporting.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:59 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 12:58:01 PM

Quote :

"I'd absolutely love to know the odds that Lowe becomes as successful as K."

100% worse if he's fired before a 4th season

3/13/2009 12:58:28 PM

The blind support for this guy idiocy you continue to display is mesmerizing.

Quote :

"I'd absolutely love to know the odds that Lowe becomes as successful as K."

It just shows that even great coaches need time (and in my opinion the best coach in College Basketball), so it's only fair to give Lowe his time.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 1:00 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 12:58:35 PM

What's idiotic about any of my posts? Should I just succumb to low expectations that come along with this coach?

3/13/2009 12:59:57 PM

So by your logic, you think any coach in the country that doesn't win a national championship should be immediately fired? Or just a conference championship? Or should their job be secure for at least another year if they finish in the top third?

Do you really want to lose our recruits? Honestly, if Lowe was fired right now, do you think we'd be anything other than shit for years and years to come?


[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 1:03 PM. Reason : ^no, just pick another team to be a 'fan' of and go away. ]

3/13/2009 1:00:31 PM

Give him one more season to get to 7-9. Two more to make the NCAAs.

We aren't going to can a guy after 3 years, especially when he inherited 6 scholarship players.

3/13/2009 1:02:12 PM

jesus christ


^the 6 scholarship statistic is something the Lowe haters conveniently like to ignore when talking about 3 seasons of shit.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 1:03 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 1:02:14 PM

Quote :

"So by your logic, you think any coach in the country that doesn't win a national championship should be immediately fired? Or just a conference championship? Or should there job be secure for at least another year if they finish in the top third? Do you really want to lose our recruits? Honestly, if Lowe was fired right now, do you think we'd be anything other than shit for years and years to come?"

By my logic we shouldn't be in the cellar of the ACC for three straight years. And what exactly leads you to believe that with Lowe we are going to be anything other than shit for years and years to come?

3/13/2009 1:02:19 PM

Quote :

"And what exactly leads you to believe that with Lowe we are going to be anything other than shit for years and years to come?"

ugh, he's got stellar classes coming that fit his style? That while small, he's still showing improvement. He's going after the top recruits. Our underclassman are showing a lot of promise. Our upperclassman are gone.

Pick one.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 1:04 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 1:04:08 PM

Were OhBoyeee's posts not getting noticed in the credibility watch thread? He just gets to make his own thread? Should we all make our own threads outlining our position on Sidney Lowe?

3/13/2009 1:04:51 PM

man, you're right dude, we should fire Sid. And then the new coach will get Favors and Wall to commit, and then we'll get tons of good recruits next year!!

OH WAIT

THAT'D BE FUCKING SUICIDE

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 1:05 PM. Reason : fuck this guy]

3/13/2009 1:04:53 PM

Quote :

"Do you think there is any chance we could actually pull him away from Villanova?"

Of course not. They pay him well and he likes it there. I was just kidding around.

wolfAApack

Quote :

"In addition, if we're going to leave this thread open...how about a new rule. Every time you say you want Lowe fired, you give a legit replacement option....sound fair?"

I agree with nearly everything you said, but that isn't really fair. We didn't have any legitimate safe bets before and nearly everyone wanted to run off Herb. It isn't about not having options. If you truly believe that a coach can't get it done, as many did with Herb, then you can't continue along down that path because you are worried about finding a guy who will come in my opinion.

GenghisJohn

Quote :

"Quote : "Three years is adequate time to pull a team (that he put there in the first place) out of the shitter of the ACC." wrong."

I don't entirely disagree but I also don't entirely agree. It's certainly not unheard of, at this level, to turnaround a team/program in 3 years at all. Baylor basically played a half season and had major recruiting sanctions brought against them and here they are competing for a berth in the NCAAT right now. You can argue they have done some unethical, but not illegal things, but they completely turned around their program and were in a FAR WORSE spot than us.


OhBoyeee

Quote :

"If you want to nit pick, then why did we not use this season to develop Julius Mays? He has worlds more potential than Dennis Horner, but Horner got incredible amounts of play time. Why not Mays? I'm not saying I'm a coach or anything, but that seems pretty obvious. It seems pretty obvious that being one of the worst teams in the ACC for the past THREE years is also indicative of not being a good coach."

Mays may hit some shots but he is so stagnant as the 1 it's almost embarrassing. I don't know that I've ever seen a PG get less guys involved in an offense then I did last night. He just had a good shooting night. He simply doesn't take risks. He reminds of UConn's Craig Austrie. His good to not turn the ball over at a high rate in a half court set, but that doesn't really make the team any better.

Jrb599

Quote :

"Oh man just think how smart Duke would of been if they got rid of Coach K after his first three years. 1980-81 Duke 17-13 6-8 T–5th 1981-82 Duke 10-17 4-10 T–6th 1982-83 Duke 11-17 3-11 7th "

If I ever see this stupid ass comparison again it'll be too soon... Please stop, for the love of God. Yes, we all know Dean Smith was hung in effigy too.

3/13/2009 1:05:29 PM

again i ask, do you seriously think firing Lowe right now would benefit the program now and in the future? Can you imagine our team next year without our seniors, and without the 19th-ranked recruiting class in the nation coming in?

please ban this guy. damn anonymous internet troll.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 1:08 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 1:05:42 PM

^^How is it stupid?

\/I'm just saying that even the best needed more than 3 years, we should give more than 3 years. I'm not saying he is the next Coach K.
It's def beaten to death, as just about everything else in this thread and the credibility thread is.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 1:06:04 PM

yeah, the coach k comparison is played out as fuck.

as is OhBoyeee

no, I agree, the comparison is a good one in theory

its just been beaten to death

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 1:09 PM. Reason : .]

3/13/2009 1:06:50 PM