...to avoid offending Germany

Quote :

" Barack Obama rejects Normandy trip to avoid offending Germany Barack Obama, concerned about offending Britain and Germany, rebuffed strenuous attempts by President Nicolas Sarkozy of France to persuade the new American president to make a trip to Normandy this week. By Toby Harnden, US Editor, and Henry Samuel in Paris Last Updated: 10:12PM BST 02 Apr 2009 White House officials travelled to France at the start of March to discuss a visit by Mr Obama to Omaha Beach, the site of the American Cemetery, established in 1944 just after D-Day and where 9,387 American personnel are buried. Among them is Theodore Roosevelt Jr the eldest son of the 26th US President. French officials and senior American military officers walked with White House staff through the cemetery discussing how the two presidents might follow the same route. But even before their trip, the White House had decided that Mr Obama would not travel there this week. "It wasn't going to happen," said an American official in Washington. "We went through the motions to placate President Sarkozy but giving special treatment to France was not on our agenda. "During this trip, we wanted to maintain a balance between the British, German and France". A White House spokesman in London declined to comment. Last month, White House officials briefed that a Normandy visit had been considered but it had not been logistically possible. Mr Obama will arrive in Strasbourg on Friday for the Nato summit. He will hold a meeting with Mr Sarkozy and a brief press appearance in Strasbourg and then fly to Baden-Baden to do exactly the same with Chancellor Merkel of Germany. He will then fly to Prague on Saturday. Mr Sarkozy is said by French officials to be piqued that Gordon Brown became the first European leader to meet Mr Obama and was then lavished with praise by him at a 50-minute joint press conference in London on Wednesday. The French president tried unsuccessfully to meet Mr Obama before he was sworn in after the G20 summit in Washington last November, even stationing a French military plane on 24-hour standby nearby to whisk him to Chicago should the then US president-elect change his mind. He had also hoped Mr Obama would agree to a meeting before attending the G20 summit in London on April 3. The French had suggested that Mr Obama fly from London to Normandy on Friday morning for a stop before the Nato summit. Instead, he is going directly to Strasbourg. According to French reports, Mr Obama was to visit the Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial at Colleville-sur-mer, just north of Omaha Beach. The pair were apparently to have dined at the nearby chateau de Bénouville in Caen. The White House rejected the offer, but Mr Sarkozy's most senior aide said Mr Obama had agreed to come back in June for the 65th anniversary of the June 6th 1944, D-Day landings. A White House spokesman declined to comment on whether Mr Obama would travel to France in June. "This will allow for a longer conversation and a more ambitious bilateral visit," said Claude Gueant, the secretary general of the Elysée Palace, last week. He denied any strains and said the two held an hour-long videoconference, which the Elysée hyped up as a "mini-summit", on the economic crisis. "Relations between the presidents are excellent and very productive," he said. "Mr Sarkozy is not courting Mr Obama," he said."

Any shred of respect I had left = gone.

This had nothing to do with "giving special treatment to France" and everything to do with paying respect to the nearly 10,000 Americans that died on that beach so that that fuckstick has a country to even be president of. He obviously thinks it's cool to piss all over our veterans and the sacrifices they've made so he can kiss the ass of a bunch of foreigners.

First the MOH ball, now this? Fuck that Anti-American son of a bitch. I hope that disrespectful sack of shit dies in a fire.

4/8/2009 11:31:35 AM

4/8/2009 11:40:05 AM

As long as he goes for the anniversary in June I don't see how there's a problem.

I don't expect him to stop by a cemetery every single time he goes to Europe.

4/8/2009 11:48:11 AM

^

4/8/2009 11:50:16 AM

^^

4/8/2009 11:52:34 AM

I CAN'T BELIEVE HE HASN'T BEEN TO EVERY MAJOR BATTLEFIELD OF THE LAST 250 YEARS YET TO PAY HIS RESPECTS

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

USA #1

4/8/2009 11:53:15 AM

WHY THAT UPPITY...

4/8/2009 12:16:01 PM

wait. so the OP is saying that Obama should do what the french president tells him to do? oh how times change.

4/8/2009 12:19:38 PM

Quote :

"I don't see how there's a problem."

4/8/2009 12:27:22 PM

Sounds to me like Sarkozy is a whiny little stalker pansy.

Other than that, I see no problems with what Obama's doing.

Anti-American...that's funny.

4/8/2009 12:41:52 PM

Quote :

"As long as he goes for the anniversary in June I don't see how there's a problem."

4/8/2009 12:56:32 PM

I've always suspected Obama to be pro-nazi.

4/8/2009 1:00:13 PM

I should have expected as much.

So it's okay to visit the grave of Ataturk, but they can't take a couple hours to cross the channel for a pre-arranged visit to Normandy to pay his respects? I don't care who you are - fuck that.

If he invited him over for dinner, he can say "no thank you". A visit to the Louvre? Perfectly acceptable to say no. To say "no" to anything else is just good time management.

To take time to do all that other crap, and then to so flippantly disregard the sacrifice of those American veterans is unacceptable for the President.

But hey, why should I care. I'm just the proud descendant of someone who fought beside all of those guys in that cemetery.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM. Reason : ]

4/8/2009 2:49:51 PM

maybe he plans a more fitting tribute to the sacrifices of those soldiers in june. just a thought.

4/8/2009 2:58:30 PM

Isn't pride one of the 7 deadly sins?

4/8/2009 3:11:00 PM

you cant expect him to visit every memorial of american importance on one trip.

personally, I would rather him skip any and all sight-seeing and get back to Washington ASAP. we have too many issues to deal with over here. this is petty.

4/8/2009 3:27:49 PM

Quote :

"I'm just the proud descendant of someone who fought beside all of those guys in that cemetery."

So what? I'm the proud descendant of people who fought in the Revolution, in the Civil War (on both sides), in France during WWI, and in Burma and China during WWII. I don't demand that anytime the President is near any of the battle sites that he run over there and kiss their ass. I'll bet a large percentage of wolfwebbers have an ancestor who fought in WWII. Some will have ancestors who died in that war. Are they being ungrateful little shits for not throwing a hissy fit over this?

The 65 anniversary is in less than two months. Your own article says he's likely to go for that memorial, which is bound to be quite a bit larger.

Quote :

"So it's okay to visit the grave of Ataturk"

Turkey is important to our interests, and I'm not going to fault the man for making a couple of little gestures to reach out to them. I'll guarantee that visit was far more a political move than it was an expression of sincere respect for the man.

4/8/2009 3:41:11 PM

the military isn't the only side of america that paid the ultimate sacrifice so that others can live in freedom

seems like some just see history as "wars and the pause in between them"

4/8/2009 3:44:37 PM

Okay, apparently I'm just way off-base here, so I'm willing to just let this one die.

My only point was that with all the other ass-kissing diplomatic stuff they have time to, there was no time for something that, to me anyway, actually means a great deal more. in short, I found it very disturbing that flying around Europe was decided to be of vastly greater importance than this.

GrumpyGOP, please do not think that I'm discounting any of your family's or anyone else's own proud history. My aim is precisely the opposite, and I too share much of that same history.

With that, my contribution here is done. Your points are taken and I won't stir this pot anymore.

4/8/2009 4:05:58 PM

Perhaps he just does not like France much and this was his excuse to get out of a visit...

we all know republicans are champions in their love of the french! Freedom fries anyone?

I'd rather have a president who's a little over the top on the diplomacy side than a president who is known for his "bring'em on" attitude, alienates countries by arbitrarily labeling them in the axis of evil than scoffing when they react hostilely, and disregards the importance of smaller countries since after all we are USA and will kick your ass if you disagree with us.

4/8/2009 5:26:19 PM

Much of that "ass-kissing diplomatic stuff" has a direct correlation to the reason why he doesn't have more war cemeteries to visit. I would argue that the G20 and NATO meetings were very important, as was visiting important allies. Visiting Ataturk's grave is likely out of a sense of protocol. If you search a bit, you will notice that nearly all head of state visits to any country include visiting a prominent national monument. Obama will be making many more European trips during his presidency, more than enough time to properly honor our war dead.

4/8/2009 5:55:05 PM

I heard that President Obama is going to make a special trip to the Yasukuni Shrine in Japan just to piss off China.

4/8/2009 6:47:53 PM

Maybe he should go visit the buried SS to make amends

4/8/2009 7:00:18 PM

What a bitch

By bitch I mean FenderFreek

You hate Obama regardless.

GrumpyGOP and DaBird said it best:

Quote :

"As long as he goes for the anniversary in June I don't see how there's a problem. I don't expect him to stop by a cemetery every single time he goes to Europe."

and

Quote :

"you cant expect him to visit every memorial of american importance on one trip. personally, I would rather him skip any and all sight-seeing and get back to Washington ASAP. we have too many issues to deal with over here. this is petty."

4/8/2009 7:01:08 PM

Quote :

"Sounds to me like Sarkozy is a whiny little stalker pansy. Other than that, I see no problems with what Obama's doing. "

Wake me when he declines a visit every single time he has the opportunity.

4/8/2009 7:24:13 PM

I want to emphasize here that I will be a bit upset if he doesn't go in June.

Don't get me wrong, I get the importance of those memorials. At our best, our military actions have been consistently horrific on all sides. But the invasion of Normandy represents the closest thing to military perfection that we've ever had. Not only was it well executed, but it was to further a pretty defensible cause. An enormous number of American troops thrown, at once and as one, against the defensive wall of one of the most horrific regimes in the history of the planet.

We, as a people, need a shining moment. And D-Day is it. Almost everything else we've done is morally questionable on some level, but that one day we got to do something that is pretty much unassailably right. To sustain that memory of what we can do when we put our minds to it, I'm more than willing to demand that our leaders pay homage once every 5-10 years.

Especially now, when the last of that fighting generation is dying out.

4/9/2009 12:56:28 AM

Quote :

"personally, I would rather him skip any and all sight-seeing and get back to Washington ASAP. we have too many issues to deal with over here."

I disagree. The longer he's away, the longer it will take for him to sign more spending bills.

4/9/2009 7:49:29 AM

yeah... who gives a fuck. if he blows it off in June, then rip his nuts off.

4/9/2009 8:44:22 AM

Quote :

"I want to emphasize here that I will be a bit upset if he doesn't go in June. .... To sustain that memory of what we can do when we put our minds to it, I'm more than willing to demand that our leaders pay homage once every 5-10 year"

i think it will be great if Obama goes in June, but I have an honest question now - if this incident had never occurred, would Obama still be expected to go in June for the 65th anniversary? If he hadn't run into this snafu, would you guys be all over his nuts if he didn't schedule a trip to France in June? Don't you think it would be more likely that D-Day would come and go, just like it does every year, with a notice in the press and maybe a statement from the White House?

Is 65 an "important number", that is, any more or less important than any other year? Is it normal practice for our Presidents to go to Normandy? Did Clinton go for the 50th? Bush for the 60th, or any other time?

4/9/2009 9:49:51 AM

clinton in 1994:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1473602/posts

gwb in 2004:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/world/in-d-day-rite-bush-praises-veterans-of-normandy.html

[Edited on April 9, 2009 at 11:04 AM. Reason : .]

4/9/2009 11:03:33 AM

Quote :

"Is 65 an "important number", that is, any more or less important than any other year?"

I say yes only because it's getting on the extreme end of round numbers that will qualify as important. Soon everyone who was involved in the invasion will be dead. The whole event will pretty much pass out of living memory.

I'm pretty sure Bush did go for the 60th. Seem to remember seeing it. I'm not sure about Clinton, but I would assume he did. Old people vote a lot, and old people are obsessed with WWII.

4/9/2009 11:07:28 AM

^^, ^ -
ok, well that's good enough for me. I would say that, yes, Obama should be expected to go for the 65th anniversary, if not only because this could potentially be the only "round number" anniversary in which he is in office (worst case for him, he doesn't make it to the 70th anniversary).

but in agreement with most others here, any hubbub about him not visiting on his recent trip is just hating

4/9/2009 11:11:45 AM

Quote :

" I disagree. The longer he's away, the longer it will take for him to sign more spending bills."

point taken.

4/9/2009 12:49:42 PM

Quote :

" This had nothing to do with "giving special treatment to France" and everything to do with paying respect to the nearly 10,000 Americans that died on that beach so that that fuckstick has a country to even be president of."

He's president of France and/or Poland?

4/9/2009 4:15:45 PM

I think the fuckstick in question there was Sarkozy.

4/9/2009 5:19:54 PM

Sarkozy wasn't mentioned in the title or by the OP

And in fact Sarkozy wanted him to go to Normandy according to the article

This doesn't lead me to believe that anger enough to call someone a "fuckstick" was directed toward Sarkozy

4/9/2009 6:26:49 PM

Hmm, well maybe he thought Hitler would have sailed over when he was done with Europe. I dunno.. I guess I was just being logical, I forgot this was the SB. Though they are definitely both fucksticks, they are both politicians after all.

[Edited on April 9, 2009 at 7:15 PM. Reason : sp]

4/9/2009 7:15:43 PM

Quote :

"Behind me is a memorial that symbolizes the Ranger daggers that were thrust into the top of these cliffs. And before me are the men who put them here. These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. These are the men who took the cliffs. These are the champions who helped free a continent. These are the heroes who helped end a war. Gentlemen, I look at you and I think of the words of Stephen Spender's poem. You are men who in your "lives fought for life and left the vivid air singed with your honor.""

President Ronald Reagan, 40th Anniversary Speech, Pointe Du Hoc, Normandy.

4/9/2009 10:34:05 PM

Quote :

"I heard that President Obama is going to make a special trip to the Yasukuni Shrine in Japan just to piss off China."

Thanks for giving me an awkward moment in the office by laughing at this

4/9/2009 11:14:41 PM

How the hell is he gonna piss off Britain by visiting? I can understand Germandy (not really think it would though) but Britain?

4/10/2009 12:39:00 AM

Who cares? Obama going to Normandy has about as much symbolic importance as the yearly "pardoning the turkey" ritual. Does anybody really believe that his flying there on the taxpayer dime and giving a boring speech somehow prolongs the memory and importance of Normandy? If so, please explain how.

4/10/2009 1:07:27 AM

Its the same as any memorial ever. They're all useless in practicality.

4/10/2009 10:32:11 AM

Quote :

"Does anybody really believe that his flying there on the taxpayer dime and giving a boring speech somehow prolongs the memory and importance of Normandy?"

A sitting president going over there pretty much inevitably prolongs the memory of the event. It brings it back into the public consciousness, or at least a part of it (the part that gives half a damn about anything that goes on, anyway)

As to importance, obviously not. The event was, is, and will always be as important as it was. All that can be done is to affect the awareness of it.

Quote :

"They're all useless in practicality."

I disagree pretty strongly with this. Americans, like human beings in general, are not perfectly rational animals. They respond to appeals to emotion and memory. The invasion of Normandy inspires feelings of patriotism which can be useful, if directed properly. It inspires faith in our armed forces, something which is generally good to have if you're going to keep a standing military. It highlights the significance of WWII, which is obviously still lost on many people and which has many morally gray areas, but which regardless leads to the recognition of some of the terrible things that happen in the world. Maybe you don't want the US government to spend a dime fixing the situation in Darfur -- but it takes a special kind of asshole to want the American people to remain ignorant of the horrors taking place around the world.

Most of all, it reminds us that, under the right circumstances, we can accomplish truly astonishing and magnificent things. Right now I think that's important enough to spare the relatively minor amount of money it costs to fly the guy to France and back.

4/11/2009 3:57:55 AM

Quote :

" A sitting president going over there pretty much inevitably prolongs the memory of the event. It brings it back into the public consciousness, or at least a part of it (the part that gives half a damn about anything that goes on, anyway)"

OK, so just reaffirming the conclusion you believe in without evidence doesn't exactly convince me or anyone that it's worthwhile to give the President an all-expenses paid trip to France on a private jet just to give a boring speech.

You make some nice rhetorical flourishes about how the President can reaffirm the goodness of America by invoking the memory of WWII. Clearly. That's why the last President we elected who, you know, fought valiantly in WWII served a whopping one term because of how he handled taxes ...

4/11/2009 4:11:36 AM

Clearly it's not the most important thing a President can do, but that doesn't make it meaningless. Just because it wasn't enough to overcome issues of tax policy doesn't mean we should turn our backs on it now and forever.

It's not something with a clear dollar amount attached to the payout. We know how much it costs to send him over there, but we don't know how much benefit is derived from the trip. Essentially we disagree on that point. I tend to think that it at least has the potential to inspire people while sustaining the memory of event that embodies a war that I (and many others) thinks bears remembering. I also tend to think that the cumulative effects of such a trip outweigh the relatively minor costs of sending an airplane across the Atlantic, something which happens many times ever day.

There's also the diplomatic benefits of reminding our European allies about what we've done for them in the past, as well as just showing up in Europe for an event, period.

Overall, as I said, we're not perfectly rational. Sometimes we respond quite strongly to things that would be meaningless if not for our emotional response. Playing to that reality is not automatically a bad thing. At some point you have to accept the world for what it is.

4/11/2009 4:19:57 AM

^

You don't even have proof that people respond to this thing. That Obama going to France figures enough in the media to overcome, say, the latest dead kid in California. This is the decision making basis on which we spend hundreds of thousands if not millions of taxpayer dollars shipping a prima donna and his entourage to one of the nicer parts of France just to give a boring speech? No wonder we all need bail outs these days.

Nicely done, cheers. I'll continue wondering where my tax dollars go, thanks, rationally or not.

4/11/2009 4:36:07 AM

I can't say that I recall anything about any of the presidents during my lifetime visiting normandy for a memorial. All those trips had no relevance to my existence.

4/11/2009 5:06:50 AM

Quote :

"You don't even have proof that people respond to this thing."

The existence of this thread is proof that at least somebody responds to this thing. It seems highly improbable that FenderFreek and I are the only two people in the country who respond to this.

4/11/2009 12:13:34 PM

There is no evidence that fenderfreek actually cares about the memorial. Seems like he just saw an article somewhere and decided to be offended about it so that he could add it to his arsenal of anti-obama fodder.

I'm would be pretty surprised if someone followed normandy memorial events and cared about them before this article came up.

4/11/2009 12:19:36 PM

Including the WWII veterans in general (and Normandy vets in particular) and their families? You'd be surprised if they followed it?

4/11/2009 12:34:36 PM