i'm installing a water softener, but there's no shut-off valve under my house or at the street...this is the first time i've ever seen a complete lack of homeowner control over house flow

should i just call the city? the only thing i can find outside is one of those neptune meters (they just hover their scanners over the plate and they get the reading instead of opening the cover)...there's no shut-off valve there, though

i just need them to shut it off long enough for me drain the pipes to relieve the water pressure, cut the PEX piping, and install the shut-off valve myself...once that happens, they can turn it back on and i can install the softener bypass at my leisure

[Edited on June 7, 2009 at 11:46 PM. Reason : .]

6/7/2009 11:43:50 PM

wow that sucks. I assume that the city could do this for you (there may be a fee involved)

6/7/2009 11:45:18 PM

look harder - every house has the ability to turn off the water - if a pipe breaks you don't have to wait for the city to come turn off the water

6/7/2009 11:47:32 PM

you want to come check it out? i knew there was no cut-off under the house when i bought it...i had the house inspected and the inspector noted the same thing...i also know my yard and that there is no other access except the one near the street where the meter is...obviously it CAN be shut off, but there's no "normal" valve (as in, no circular or linear twist-to-control-flow knob) for me to mess with...makes sense to me, too, otherwise people could easily turn their water back on when the city shuts it off

3/4" PEX piping comes directly into the house...from there, it splits and does its thing...there are 2-3 valves, but only in specific places (line that goes to the ice maker and the water heater are the two i know exactly...i don't remember the 3rd one, if there is one)

i know that that's the general idea, but i'm telling you that that's not the case here

6/7/2009 11:55:42 PM

just go turn it off at the meter.

6/8/2009 12:17:20 AM

^

6/8/2009 12:23:38 AM

have you ever seen one of those neptune meters?

there's nowhere you can turn it off.

6/8/2009 12:34:25 AM

ah, that's what i get for skimming.

6/8/2009 12:36:15 AM

in theory there should be a valve installed after the meter, before the dwelling...the meter type shouldn't have anything to do with it

6/8/2009 12:46:57 AM

post some pictures i guess - within 30 seconds i found the following

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS291US304&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=how+to+turn+off+water+neptune+meter

the highlights
http://www.co.currituck.nc.us/water-leak-problems.cfm

Quote :

"Turning Off Your Water in the Event of an Emergency If you experience a broken pipe, you should first turn off your water supply at your private shutoff valve. If you do not have a private shutoff valve, or don’t know where it is located, you may turn off your water at your meter in an emergency situation. To turn your water off at the meter: Open the meter box lid. In some cases, you may need to remove the lid completely. On the street side of the meter, you will see the shutoff valve. The valve will be in a three o’clock (3:00) position (please refer to the photos below). To shut off the water, turn the top part of the valve to the 3:15 position. If the valve is closed properly, the two holes in the valve flanges will line up, and your leak indicator will stop spinning."

Quote :

"IMPORTANT: If you do not have a private shutoff valve, you should have one installed as soon as possible. The North Carolina plumbing code requires that each dwelling have its own shutoff."

Neptune Meter - Valve Closed


Neptune Meter - Valve Open


[Edited on June 8, 2009 at 9:18 AM. Reason : fixed picture]

6/8/2009 12:47:04 AM

you just posted the same pic twice

6/8/2009 12:52:36 AM

6/8/2009 1:27:39 AM

^^^ yeah, that's what it looks like...i'll be honest, i didn't actually google how to turn the water OFF on a neptune meter, i just googled the neptune meter itself

^ it's called a "curb key" and they're something like $10 at home depot, apparently...i'll pick one up this afternoon

i appreciate the help, y'all

6/8/2009 7:45:23 AM

you don't have a pair of pliers? those work just as well...

6/8/2009 7:49:18 AM

yes, they do...but the people who owned the house before me planted flowers around the plate (for obvious reasons)...the lilies are in full bloom and i can't easily get to it without trashing the bed...it's a pretty deep hole (i'd have to lay on my stomach and reach down with my long pliers, even assuming it's not too tight and i can turn it from a vertical position because there's no room for me to do it horizontally)

6/8/2009 8:00:41 AM

ah. well you have fun with that.

and fwiw, my parents house doesn't have a second shutoff valve - just the meter valve. I really see no point in having the second (unless you're that concerned about having a backup valve). we've always used the meter valve in the past

6/8/2009 8:02:42 AM

ahahaha, I've been in the emergency situation, where my water heater burst and soaked my crawl space. thankfully, it was sloped, so only the corner where the heater was was underwater and it flowed into the backyard. interesting morning.

I have no shutoff valve (that I could locate early in the morning), so we had to shut the neptune valve off.

Good times. Pair of pliers.

6/8/2009 8:06:22 AM

Quote :

"and fwiw, my parents house doesn't have a second shutoff valve - just the meter valve. I really see no point in having the second (unless you're that concerned about having a backup valve). we've always used the meter valve in the past"

my house was built in '64 and then it was moved in 2000...the plumbing and electrical were redone, though since the house was grandfathered into the current standards, they could do pretty much whatever they wanted

the electrical is great...it doesn't look like they cut any corners except for violating some minor modern codes regarding the spacing of holes in the floor joists (but we're talking 1/16" inch, so no worries)...the plumbing, however, looks like they just made it up as they went along...i've seen the plumbing in newer homes and it's a LOT more organized than what i've got going on

there's a shut-off valve at the water heater, which would be the single biggest water-related problem i can think of, so that's all well and good...but there's a great deal of piping BEFORE the water heater where problems could occur...it's well worth the $10 valve (since i'm cutting the main line anyway) for the peace of mind and ease of access at a possible later date should i do any additional plumbing work on the house

i admit that i have very little experience with this sort of thing...it all seems pretty simple now that i know how it all works, but i'm more of a computer geek than a handyman

also, does anyone know where i can get PEX sections longer than 5 feet? that's all that lowe's and home depot sell...two 12' pieces would be ideal so that i can put the softener in an area that's easily accessible

6/8/2009 8:16:53 AM

try: Charlotte pipe company or McMaster Carr

6/8/2009 8:21:59 AM

^^ meantioning hot water heater, make sure if its electric you turn it off otherwise youll burn it out. Gas, not at as much a worry but still probably a good idea to turn it off as well. Also if gas if you turn it off, make sure you either 1 keep pilot light on, 2 make sure gas is completely off.

6/8/2009 9:24:56 AM

^ yeah, my dad told me the same thing...my order of action is this:

1.) shut off main into the house
2.) turn off water heater
3.) close all existing valves
4.) open faucets/spigots to relieve water pressure in the lines (don't know how long this'll take)
5.) cut the main line with a trashcan underneath to collect any additional water
6.) install shut-off valve
7.) install softener bypass
8.) open main into the house
9.) check for leaks at bypass
10.) open existing valves
11.) turn water heater back on
12.) check for leaks over the next few hours and days

am i missing anything? i'm using PEX (obviously), brass fittings (there's currently copper everywhere else, but it doesn't seem to matter), the crimps and crimping tool (the new standard, not that PEX-specific one where the tool alone is $80) instead of the gatorbite connectors (twice as expensive and they make me nervous)...using teflon tape on the PVC softener connections, using potassium chloride instead of sodium since i do water my houseplants with distilled tap water and sears had the potassium on sale for $5/40lbs

[Edited on June 8, 2009 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

6/8/2009 9:39:27 AM

Quote :

"you don't have a pair of pliers? those work just as well..."

Not in my experience. The interior of the box is too small to turn any pair of pliers that is big enough to actually grab the valve.

That valve tool is something every homeowner should have IMO. Spend the $12 on it, hang it on a wall in the garage, and forget about it until you need it. You'll be glad you have it if you ever come home to a busted pipe.

6/8/2009 10:00:07 AM