My grandmother's 03 LeSabre just threw a rod.

She's had all dealer maintenance, including one month before. Her check engine light was coming on, and the dealer wouldn't check it for her. "Aw ma'am, I don't want to do that. I'd have to charge you $100. It's probably just your gas cap."

Two weeks ago I read her code, which was the P0420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshhold. I cleared it, it came back a day later. No exhaust leaks or other apparent problems, O2 sensors working, so I told her to get it to the dealer for a cat replacement stat(not surprising on a granny car that only makes short trips). I checked all the fluids that same day, no coolant in the oil(I read terrible things about GM's leaking intake manifolds).

A week later the rod blows near her house. Of course she didn't call me(I do engine swaps all the time), but instead took it to the dealer. The cat replacement was free, but the motor swap was $4500. I'm going with her tomorrow to pick it up. What can I argue to get the price down? This is her third buick, second purchased from this dealer. I'm so fucking pissed.

Dealer is Bleecker in Dunn. I wonder if GM is taking suggestions on which dealers to ax, not that I'll ever be dealing with one again.

[Edited on June 22, 2009 at 1:38 AM. Reason : I can't believe we bailed out these fuckers. How many decades have they been making the 3.8 now?]

[Edited on June 22, 2009 at 1:43 AM. Reason : .]

6/22/2009 1:33:05 AM

More specific question: (for anyone that might know)

How many hours does the book call for on an engine swap in this car?

6/22/2009 1:41:57 AM

Quote :

"What can I argue to get the price down?"

nothing, they'll laugh at you. she agreed to the price and the work has been done. buyer's remorse isn't grounds for them to lower prices. besides, that sounds like a very fair price on a fresh genuine gm engine installed at a dealer.

the car is well out of warranty any way you look at it. sucks, but there's really nothing the dealer has done wrong at all. anything they might do for you would be a gift out of respect for your grandma's loyalty to them.

iirc, the book hours on that car would be around 8-10 hours. been a few years since i worked at a gm dealer though.

[Edited on June 22, 2009 at 1:45 AM. Reason : .]

6/22/2009 1:43:50 AM

Yeah, don't I know it.

I'm baffled by the rod failure though. I've seen plenty of 3.8's and 3.3's blow but it was always due to head gaskets or other neglect, way past 100,000 miles. I've read that GM lowered their quality control in the early part of this decade, no longer matching pistons by hand for instance resulting in piston slap. I guess they could have also been skimping on the alloy.

6/22/2009 1:48:05 AM

is she not still under warranty? i would make a case based on loyalty. i had a friend who's had all his service done at Mitsubishi. he was calm and showed he'd had all his service done on time and by the dealer ... ended up getting $2800 worth of parts/labor for free. the fact that she purchased multiple buicks and from the same dealer should count for something. i would just keep talking to everyone there until you get a lil more reasonable price. if that doesn't work get loud and accuse them of takin advantage of your granny.

6/22/2009 1:51:47 AM

yeah, i would consider that a pretty uncommon failure also assuming no neglect/abuse involved. they are pretty solid bottom ends. probably some sort of manufacturing defect or issue in assembly. if you had been able to get ahold of the parts after the tear down, you might could have had some sort of case for a free or at least reduced cost replacement if an obvious flaw was present. you might still be able to request the results of the oil analysis if you wanted. most dealers do one for any engine that comes in with a major mechanical failure, and it's absolutely required for anything still under warranty.

[Edited on June 22, 2009 at 1:56 AM. Reason : ^nah, that car probably only carried a 3yr/36k on the drivetrain.]

6/22/2009 1:53:55 AM

GM went to new "powdered metal sinter forged" rods when the Series III 3800 came out in 2004. I wonder if the new crate motor is a Series III.

Yeah, I thought all recent GM's had 60,000 mile powertrain, but no. If the emissions warranty wasn't federally mandated to 80,000/8years they'd sure as hell be charging for that catalytic converter too.

[Edited on June 22, 2009 at 2:01 AM. Reason : .]

6/22/2009 1:59:14 AM

i would at least demand the old cat back, or a fair reduction in the bill for the scrap price. don't let them profit off of that too.

6/22/2009 2:12:24 AM

ouch. i would be curious to know what could cause that kind of failure in a grandma car as well.

6/22/2009 8:14:17 AM

Who knows if it was even rod failure. Dealers (and independent shops) have been known to flat out lie to little old ladies who they know will have no choice but foot the bill. Maybe it was a scheme between the tech and the service writer to score a low mileage engine on the cheap.

6/22/2009 8:58:04 AM

^

and

You might want to call Buick Corporate. If she's a repeat buyer and has records of service to indicate that the car was well maintained they might be willing to do something for her in the name of customer satisfaction. Just let it be known that you will be looking elsewhere when the time comes to replace this car if they don't make some sort of concession.

6/22/2009 11:09:36 AM

She described it as a horrible jackhammer noise. The shadetree mechanic across the street from her also listened to it with a stick. It probably really was searching for atmosphere.

As I said, no coolant or gas contamination in the oil when I checked it, although my nose hasn't been working too well lately. Too much blow I guess.

6/22/2009 11:10:55 AM

Oil pumps, timing belt tensioners and intake coolant leaks are the weak points of the 3.8 I have seen problems with. I have seem 3 with low miles and failed oil pumps.

6/22/2009 2:34:57 PM

You mean the lil bitty foot timing chain tensioners? Yep, seen it.

The Boorick 3800 uses a trochoid pump on the front crank snout. Not very forgiving of dirty oil and shit.

And I know they saved a shitload of money making plastic intakes...but did they really save anything after so many of them failed?

BTW, Dorman even has a replacement manifold for the damn thing, it's so common.

6/22/2009 4:30:53 PM

Quote :

"2003 Buick Blows "

You should have just stopped typing there.

6/22/2009 5:28:57 PM

Quote :

"This is her third buick, second purchased from this dealer. I'm so fucking pissed."

There is your first problem. Perhaps time to introduce your grandma to the modern age of automobiles with a
Acura TL, Toyota Avalon, Audi A6 or some other larger car that won't break down after 50,000 miles.

If the dealer ignored the problem and grandma was performing the maintanence on schedule driving normal could you
somehow hold the dealer for neglect. The dealer very well could have "had cause" that something catastrophic was brewing
but since they could count on faithful granny; they would just assume allow the car to blow a rod then trying to convince
her to buy a new Buick or pay out the ass to fix the problem.

I have heard from friends with expereience in the automotive industry that many dealers can be just as shady at your garner
private repair shop. The sooner your car goes the sooner they can expect you to buy a new one.

6/22/2009 7:07:04 PM

Eh, she likes them. I tried to talk her into a Chrysler 300M instead of this one. I'm not sure my advice would have been any better, haha.

I agree that the dealers make far more on repairs than sales, so I really doubt if they care much about vehicle reliability. Hell I'll bet Chrysler dealers were the most profitable of them all...until this year.

That said, I checked the car myself only two weeks prior and found nothing wrong. I'll check for TSBs possibly relating to oil pumps or rod bearings/nuts.

6/23/2009 12:10:56 AM

^^your friends are morons. service departments are big revenue producers for dealerships. especially in this economy. they like selling new cars, but they like fixing up your old one on a regular basis just as much.

6/23/2009 12:19:52 AM

Don't buy a Buick buy a Chrysler ?

Do you love this woman?

6/23/2009 8:15:12 AM

Buy one of this new big full sized Hyundai's and slap a Buick logo on it.

Grandma will probably never notice the difference.

[Edited on June 23, 2009 at 10:09 PM. Reason : l]

6/23/2009 10:08:56 PM

bend over, receive dick

6/27/2009 11:23:49 PM