I'm not meaning for this thread to be about soccer bashing. As a sports fan, I'd like to be able to appreciate/enjoy soccer, but I just can't get into it. I respect how much the rest of the world loves their futbol, but I fail to see what soccer provides in terms of in-game action that hockey doesn't; whereas hockey has more up-tempo play, harder hitting, and a lot more scoring chances.

Can some enlightened soccer minds help me out here?

6/25/2009 11:43:35 AM

One of the things that makes soccer fans (or at least me) excited when i'm watching a game, is the phenomenal control players have over the ball. I mean someone will sail in a jet of a pass from half field just outside the box, and a forward will chest it down and guide it like a laser inbetween two defenders, effectively breaking through them, and then finish with pinpoint accuracy in the upper 90.

other times it's witnessing how a player will get himself out of a jam. If you play soccer you've more than likely been in teh same situations they have, and more than likely you've had the ball stripped from you, or you got lucky and the defense made a mistake and you got away clean. It's fun to watch the creativity some players have in getting themselves out of a situation, and going from "well shit he's going to lose the ball now" to "holy shit did you see that flick? how the hell did he split the defense and get a shot off?"

To appreciate soccer, it really helps to have played it. you have a lot more understanding and appreciation of what worldclass players do.


world class players have as much control over the ball with their feet than i do with my hands, and that's just amazing. A game can end 0-0 but i could still be absolutely thrilled to have watched it.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 11:49:08 AM

I could see how having played the game would help. But I never played any hockey and feel I have a keen eye and certainly a tremendous appreciation for the game. I never played any football other than in a field w/some friends, but I still can tell the world class players from the above average ones.

I'm not the sort that needs a lot of points on the board to enjoy a game. Hell, I've seen plenty of AWESOME 1-0 hockey games. But in those, there are scoring chances abound. Whereas in soccer I only see 8-10 shots per team per game.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM. Reason : scoring]

6/25/2009 11:52:53 AM

pretty much every sport is better than soccer

6/25/2009 11:53:46 AM

hockey and soccer both suffer from the fact that if you've never played it, it's very hard to appreciate all the little things

but because it's faster, higher scoring, and hard hitting, hockey can appeal to the casual fan, whereas soccer doesn't have that luxury


I guess it's the same way people think baseball is boring but if you know the game, there are so many things to be aware of other than just the pitcher throwing it to the catcher.

^^ did you always have that appreciation for hockey? how long did it take? If you watch soccer, you can definitely tell a world class player from an average one

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 11:54:22 AM

^^that's not why I made this thread. I'm trying to have more of a civil discourse than 90% of threads where soccer is discussed.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM. Reason : ^]

6/25/2009 11:55:16 AM

they are both...lets say "less than optimal" from the perspective of television...in hockey, even in HD, its difficult to appreciate the speed of the puck, the players, etc...with soccer, its usually so far zoomed out that you can't tell its even real people playing...they are not good for TV, relative to other sports...they're both entertaining live, but TV has something to do with it

6/25/2009 11:56:06 AM

Quote :

"I could see how having played the game would help. But I never played any hockey and feel I have a keen eye and certainly a tremendous appreciation for the game. I never played any football other than in a field w/some friends, but I still can tell the world class players from the above average ones. "

well, to each his own i suppose.

6/25/2009 11:56:53 AM

Quote :

"but I fail to see what soccer provides in terms of in-game action that hockey doesn't; whereas hockey has more up-tempo play, harder hitting, and a lot more scoring chances."

hard hitting and scoring chances do not automatically make a game good to watch.

6/25/2009 11:59:12 AM

i played soccer on a high level for 13 years and i still think it is boring to watch. Outside the world cup or important games, i don't enjoy watching it.

6/25/2009 11:59:46 AM

I always got the sense that they shared a lot of the same fan base. American blacks tend to shun both, although I think that if even 1/10 of the blacks who flock to football and basketball played soccer instead, they would dominate the sport in this country. It requires many of the same skillsets that WR and RB do; imagine Iverson or Barry Sanders scoring goals instead of jumpshots and touchdowns. We would challenge for the World Cup every time.

I still maintain the fact that 90 percent of the hockey fans on here are only fans because the Hurricanes play in your backyard. If we didn't have a team, you couldn't care less about the sport. In the south, growing up where most kids might ice skate 2 or 3 times in their life, its hard to relate to a sport they never even played.

The fact that we're the only country that plays football has a big factor in this as well. We share all our other sports internationally, but you never see NFL players coming from other countries, except the jumbo lineman from Samoa. Its as American as it gets, and will always the dominate the ratings and advertising dollars because of our monopoly on the product. We came up with baseball and basketball as well, but due to the less physical and financial demands to play those sports, they've adapted easier to other cultures.

Hockey is Canadian, Soccer is European...they're borrowed pastimes, not something we came up with, and not something we identify ourselves with. Think of the typical high school soccer player: White, thin, not particularly tall, not particularly strong.. These are European traits. Americans are bred to big, strong, and tall. Part of this is a result of selective slave breeding, while part attests to our more generous diets and physical regimens. We like to idolize the big larger than life figures, not somebody who looks like us.

Hockey and Soccer will always have a place in this country, but they will always be niche sports. They will never hold the commercial appeal of baseball, basketball or football. I'll tune in for the Stanley Cup Finals or the World Cup, but will never be die hard fan of either.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:02 PM. Reason : x]

6/25/2009 12:01:13 PM

Quote :

"they are both...lets say "less than optimal" from the perspective of television...in hockey, even in HD, its difficult to appreciate the speed of the puck, the players, etc...with soccer, its usually so far zoomed out that you can't tell its even real people playing...they are not good for TV, relative to other sports...they're both entertaining live, but TV has something to do with it"

the point about not being able to see the puck:

i heard this earlier this year during the playoffs, and i just can't seem to understand how it's possible. I always know exactly where the puck is on/off the ice. I guess some people just can't keep up with it/ understand the game to a point to where they should expect to see the puck? (no offense or anything)

and to soccer being zoomed out:

well by that logic you can't see people faces in football so how do you know they're "real people playing"...... I'm sure that's not what you really meant, but in both sports (football and futbol) there are periods of zooming in and replays that focus on the "action" player that clearly show what happenned during the play.

6/25/2009 12:03:05 PM

Also in soccer whining is not aloud. So when the ref makes a bad call, you can't cry to him like you can in most other sports and have it over turned after watching a replay. So that too adds to the excitement.

Also the game doesn't stop every 5 seconds...no commercial breaks except at half time.

and its football if we're writing in english, not futbol.

6/25/2009 12:03:18 PM

I like soccer because it's tougher to make adjustments/tactical decisions, there's a greater responsibility on the players in-game than pretty much every other sport so the entire team has to be aware and be able to adapt

For that reason, and the fact there are only 3 subs allowed, with no stoppages, it's really the ultimate team sport - there aren't different lines like hockey or one defensive team and one offensive team, there aren't 30 timeouts to be able to change gameplans or to sub players, there's only one stoppage of play to get a rest instead of numerous ones like every other sport. It's pretty much impossible to ride one player to any kind of success

6/25/2009 12:04:25 PM

How can skill like this not amaze you?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsMk_pSSENM

Quote :

"and its football if we're writing in english, not futbol."

well then, you're going to have to call "football" "american football" to distinguish between the two. it's just easier to write "futbol".


[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:10 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 12:04:42 PM

soccer and hockey are very popular in certain places, but their TV ratings, at least in the US, tend to generally suck compared to NBA, NFL, NCAAF, NCAAB, etc...theres something in soccer and hockey that doesn't translate to TV as well as some other sports

6/25/2009 12:05:14 PM

Quote :

"I'm not meaning for this thread to be about soccer bashing. As a sports fan, I'd like to be able to appreciate/enjoy soccer, but I just can't get into it. I respect how much the rest of the world loves their futbol, but I fail to see what soccer provides in terms of in-game action that hockey doesn't; whereas hockey has more up-tempo play, harder hitting, and a lot more scoring chances."

I really think hockey and soccer are almost the same sport. Same concepts, same strategies. Hockey just has a smaller field and more hitting. Soccer has longer runs.

6/25/2009 12:05:51 PM

Quote :

"Also in soccer whining is not aloud. So when the ref makes a bad call, you can't cry to him like you can in most other sports and have it over turned after watching a replay. So that too adds to the excitement. Also the game doesn't stop every 5 seconds...no commercial breaks except at half time. and its football if we're writing in english, not futbol."

haha, Drogba, C Ronaldo, and Italian Seria A Excluded

and yes, a constant 45 min half is also a plus.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:07 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 12:06:38 PM

^^^In the US. But who cares about that...there isn't any real soccer talent here either...which also helps for more entertaining soccer matches.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ^]

6/25/2009 12:06:48 PM

Quote :

"I really think hockey and soccer are almost the same sport. Same concepts, same strategies. Hockey just has a smaller field and more hitting. Soccer has longer runs."

exactly, thats why I'm looking for someone to point out what I'm missing in soccer that I'm not getting in hockey, since I'm a rabid hockey fan.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:07 PM. Reason : quote]

6/25/2009 12:07:17 PM

Quote :

"Also in soccer whining is not aloud."

Are you serious?

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ol slow-ass tww]

6/25/2009 12:07:35 PM

soccer's played on the biggest field, action takes longer develop, plays take longer to happen... I could see where some people would be bored if they weren't willing to try and understand it all


It really doesn't bother me that people hate soccer because I could totally understand why they do... I just don't understand why people go out of their way to hate on it

6/25/2009 12:08:35 PM

Quote :

"haha, Drogba, C Ronaldo, and Italian Seria A Excluded and yes, a constant 45 min half is also a plus."

you can bitch all you want...its not going to change anything thats the whole point I'm making.

6/25/2009 12:09:05 PM

dbl post

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:10 PM. Reason : as]

6/25/2009 12:10:01 PM

Quote :

"In the US. But who cares about that"

this is the exact same point i tried to make yesterday...

and last I checked, 99% of the people who post in Sports Talk, for example, live in the US

LIKE IT OR NOT, most of us live in the US and think in that perspective

i'm not bashing soccer in this thread either, i'm bashing your inability to think along the same lines as everyone else on TWW

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:10 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 12:10:01 PM

Quote :

"exactly, thats why I'm looking for someone to point out what I'm missing in soccer that I'm not getting in hockey, since I'm a rabid hockey fan."

while i don't think you can really say it's "apples to oranges", they're quite a bit of difference.

different interface (one on grass, one on ice)
one you use a stick to play, one you use nothing but your body.

However, the "plays" and formations re very much the same.

like in hockey when they dump the puck into the corners on clears, they do the same thing in soccer and look for a cross afterwards.

6/25/2009 12:11:25 PM

^^yet there are a lot of soccer thread and a shit ton of people posting in them. hmmm...I guess you're wrong after all...people do care about soccer here. Unless of course everyone in these threads actually live overseas.

and why am i supposed to conform and think along the same lines as 'everyone else'. That's dumb. I love soccer and you don't get it...get over it and go smoke.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:13 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 12:11:28 PM

your inferiority complex is even worse than it was yesterday\

its like you cant even accept the fact that most Americans aren't huge fans

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:13 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 12:12:02 PM

Of course there are some people who care about soccer in the US, that's not his point.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:13 PM. Reason : ol slow-ass tww]

6/25/2009 12:13:14 PM

^^riiiiiight. I think the only one with a complex here is you but thats why you have such a difficult time seeing it.

6/25/2009 12:13:59 PM

you're clearly the one with the complex

its not really even a soccer complex, seems to be more of a I AM A GLOBAL CITIZEN, I DONT GIVE A FUCK WHAT PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES THINK, EVEN THOUGH 99% OF THIS MESSAGEBOARD IS PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, THATS NOT AT ALL RELEVANT

i'm trying to legitimately point out reasons why some people dont like/appreciate soccer, and tv "translation" is certainly one...you on the other hand seem to be about the only person straight up bashing other sports in this thread

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:17 PM. Reason : ./]

6/25/2009 12:15:34 PM

Quote :

" you can bitch all you want...its not going to change anything thats the whole point I'm making. "

i don't mean to argue with you or anything of the sort, but I think you can make the same point about every sport.

Basketball: how many times do you see a player go over to a ref after he calls foul and plead his case to no avail.

Baseball: coaches getting in the umps face

football:

when players plead their case to the ref, they're not doing so with the intentions of having the call reversed (most of the time, unless a challenge is possible), but mainly to tell the ref to look out for something later in the game.

6/25/2009 12:15:37 PM

I, too, enjoy soccer. I also like hockey. I follow both of them more closely than any of the more popular American sports (save maybe the Panthers in football). I don't give a shit about baseball or the NBA.

I realize I am in the minority of users here, but I understand that most Americans don't give 2 shits about soccer, and the majority of them don't give a shit about hockey either. I don't care if they don't like it, I do.

Keeping this whole SOCCER RULEZ #1/SOCCER SUCKS MY ASS argument going is retarded. For the most part the soccer/hockey haters aren't jumping in threads designed to talk about those sports with unruly comments about how it's awful. Just like I don't go into every baseball thread and say that I think baseball is boring as fuck. It's personal preference.

Soccer haters are going to keep hating.
Soccer enthusiasts are going to keep watching.

Agree to disagree. Please to shut the fuck up whiny bitches.

6/25/2009 12:18:43 PM

i also feel like stoppage time goes against everything Americans expect in a sport.. imagine if overtime for basketball worked like that.. "ok, keep playing for a few minutes, we don't know exactly how long, but we have a good idea, when we blow the whistle it's over"

6/25/2009 12:20:44 PM

Also, varying pitch dimensions

But the refs aren't just blowing the whistle whenever, the head ref has a watch and signals the length of stoppage time sometime before the end of the half

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:23 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 12:21:36 PM

yeah i don't see why they can't handle stoppage time differently

i guess because "thats how its always been" but still

6/25/2009 12:21:57 PM

Quote :

"yeah i don't see why they can't handle stoppage time differently "

i think it all comes down to the speed of the game. Whereas in basketball and hockey, a play can change in a split second with a bad pass or big hit & strip, you need time to develop a play in soccer.

Calling a game in soccer is more "subjective"

6/25/2009 12:25:10 PM

Quote :

"i played soccer on a high level for 13 years and i still think it is boring to watch. Outside the world cup or important games, i don't enjoy watching it."

6/25/2009 12:26:14 PM

Quote :

"Just like I don't go into every baseball thread and say that I think baseball is boring as fuck. It's personal preference."

you may not, but plenty of people on here do.

6/25/2009 12:27:34 PM

^^^I just don't know why they can't have an official timekeeper in a high booth who can just stop the clock when a ball goes out of bounds or when there is a card thrown, injury, etc, and then restart it when play resumes...I know its different than other sports, but the referees can keep track of time while they are running around on the field, why can't some timekeeper in a booth do it and update the scoreboard clock?

There are subjective calls in every sport (calling balls and strikes in baseball, calling fouls in basketball, calling holding, pass interference, etc in football)...the time of the game seems like it should be exact

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:34 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 12:32:33 PM

Quote :

"hockey and soccer both suffer from the fact that if you've never played it, it's very hard to appreciate all the little things but because it's faster, higher scoring, and hard hitting, hockey can appeal to the casual fan, whereas soccer doesn't have that luxury I guess it's the same way people think baseball is boring but if you know the game, there are so many things to be aware of other than just the pitcher throwing it to the catcher."

Well said. Sports are a cultural thing all around the world. Australians like Rugby, English like soccer, Canadians like hockey, and American's like football. If you don't play sports, or only play the most popular spectator sports then you tend not to be interested in the sports that aren't a part of the local culture.

6/25/2009 12:33:41 PM

Sport bashing stays out of this thread

6/25/2009 12:37:41 PM

^^^i've thought about that actually and here's what i've come up with.

Soccer without a doubt is one of the oldest sports. It's the simplest, fundamentally speaking. Since it originiated long, long, long ago, before stopwatches, the game was called by an official at his discretion. there was no science to it, it was an art (gay, i know, but whatever work with me here).

One of the reasons i really like soccer is that it's basically gone unchanged since it was created. with a few exceptions here and there, it's basically played the same way now that it was ages ago.

i recently was talking to my dad about soccer rules and how it's officiated after we saw a play were the ball hit the crossbor, fell into the goal, and the spin of the ball made it bounce back out of the goal. The official called "no goal" and play resumed. My dad got angry because it was clearly a goal, but i think part of the beauty of the sport is playing through it. To me it's the one sport that's gone unchanged and i really appreciate it for that reason.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 12:38:59 PM

The key to enjoying soccer is to drink like 6 beers for every goal that is scored. If you do that you can really get into a 2-0 or 2-1 game.

6/25/2009 1:01:04 PM

not a very good gambling sport for individual games either, compared to basketball or football

I bet that makes a big difference in the US

6/25/2009 1:10:47 PM

I'm trying to compare soccer and hockey, not just hear outright criticisms of soccer.

6/25/2009 1:14:07 PM

It's a great gambling sport if you bet the ML on the dog. Wonder what the odds were on the US yesterday? +600? I'll watch Girls JV basketball for 2 hours if the team I have at +600 has a decent shot.

6/25/2009 1:14:41 PM

actually the ML was +1000

6/25/2009 1:31:41 PM

It's fun to watch because of the suspense and rivalries. It's like watching a 14-7 football game between 2 rivals only the score board doesn't lie. It really does say how many times each team scored. And the stereotype that soccer games end 0-0 is not true. There is plenty of scoring by soccer standards at all levels. The Railhawks lost in the US Open Cup last week (5-4 PK's) after tying Wilmington 3-3. Two years ago NY beat LA 5-4 in one of the biggest MLS regular season games ever (Beckham and Donovan vs Angel and Altidore). This year Manchester United came from behind to beat Hotspurs 5-3 (?).

Then there are some of the most intense sports rivalries in the world.

Celtic vs Rangers (Scotland)
Boca Juniors vs River Plate (Argentina)
Real Madrid vs Barcelona (Spain)
Inter Milan vs AC Milan (Italy)
Liverpool vs Everton (England)
Al Ahly vs Zamalek (Egypt)

the list goes on and on.

The World Cup has also produced some amazing results.

1950: USA 1 England 0
1990: Cameroon 1 Argentina 0
1994: USA 2 Columbia 1
2002: Senegal 1 France 0
2002: USA 3 Protugal 2
2002: USA 2 Mexico 0
2002: Korea Republic 1 Italy 0
2006: Trinidad & Tobago 0 Sweden 0


On top of that the games between confederation rivals are pretty big too.

USA vs Mexico
Argentina vs Brazil
England vs Scotland

6/25/2009 1:39:44 PM

>>>

6/25/2009 1:41:10 PM