Okay, since ECA stacks are so hard to lay your hands on, have you found anything that's a good viable substitute?

Do you have a personal formulation that works for you?

Can pseudoephedrine be used as a substitute somewhat effectively?

7/21/2009 10:38:59 AM

OTC shit is more dangerous than ephedrine ever was, and it doesn't work either. just order clenbuterol from a research company and be done with it.

7/21/2009 11:51:54 AM

ummm...nobody? C'mon, elighten a brotha. I know that there are some fitness folks here. If you need a little help here, an ECA stack is:

Ephedra
Caffeine
Aspirin

Sometimes included as ingredients in herbal dietary/workout supplements as Ma Huang, Guarana, White Willow Bark

7/21/2009 11:52:06 AM

eat right and exercise

7/21/2009 11:54:06 AM

Well NO SHIT. That, sir, is most common knowledge. If'n you want me to elaborate with what looks to be, in your opinion, a lame excuse, I'll be glad to.

Otherwise, let's stay on topic here and debate the whole common-knowledge diet/exercise routine elsewhere.

7/21/2009 12:00:04 PM

psuedoephedrine sucks as a thermogenic aid, and buying the amount you would need to use it as a thermogenic aid is a felony.

7/21/2009 12:07:12 PM

That's a good argument.

I've read that its efficacy is less than 1/3 that of ephedrine, and I do know that it can actually cause allergic reactions if taken in sufficient doses. The question is: how would you define "sufficient dose?" Furthermore, given the synergistic relation between ephedrine and caffeine, does that relation exist between pseudoephedrine and caffeine, and if so, what are the ratios? It's like 1:10 for ephedrine:caffeine.

7/21/2009 12:11:19 PM

I've always heard pseudoephedrine is about 25% as thermogenic as ephedrine. the synergetic effects would be similar due to them both having an amine structure and needing the same enzyme to break them down. I've never heard the 1:10 thing before.

If you really want to crank it up, just go get some ephedrine from a truck stop in VA and combine it with yohimbine. synergistic effects don't come close to comparing to the effects of taking an amine based drug with an MAOI that is a stimulant and fat burning drug in it's own right.

7/21/2009 12:17:32 PM

bronk, no-dose, asprin

7/21/2009 12:22:38 PM

you can reflux pseudoephedrine in hydrochloric acid to convert it into ephedrine, but you're going to need a lawyer to explain this one off if the cops show up at your door.

7/21/2009 12:26:00 PM

Or, we could get an asian woman to drive us back to 2000, and load up on ephedrine.

7/21/2009 12:31:27 PM

clenbuterol?

7/21/2009 12:45:12 PM

^way too dangerous.

try these:

EPHEDRINE/CAFFEINE STACK:

http://www.supplementdirect.com/?content=52&product_id=13414

ECA XTREME:

http://www.supplementwarehouse.com/viewitem.asp?idproduct=160070

I've bought stuff from both sites and neither one were sketch. Plus my shipments arrived in less than a week.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM. Reason : BOVINE]

7/21/2009 3:42:03 PM

http://www.hotnfit.com/ecstack.htm



I'm not condoning this, but it did work pretty well for me... I just felt like my heart might jump out of my chest at times. It gave me really fantastic energy. I'm still up in the air on if I'd do it again.

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 8:59 PM. Reason : ]

7/21/2009 8:56:05 PM

AGAIN, FOR EPHEDRINE, YOU CAN GO W/ BRONKAID....

you pick it up at the pharmacist's counter and sign it out like w/ sudaphed.

7/21/2009 9:10:19 PM

Bronkaid has ephedrine sulfate, which isn't as strong as the HCL version.

7/21/2009 9:45:48 PM

the molar difference between the sulfate salt and the Hcl salt is only a few percent. You will not notice a difference between the two.

[Edited on July 22, 2009 at 12:06 AM. Reason : 428 for two molecules in the sulfate vs. 201 for one molecule in the hydrochloride salt]

7/22/2009 12:02:54 AM

I also meant to say that VasoPro contains ephedrine HCl and half as much guaifenesin as Bronkaid, so it's probably the better choice if you're taking these meds for something other than their intended purpose.

7/22/2009 7:52:23 AM

that's a good point. taking a lot of guaifenesin isn't good for you.

7/22/2009 8:51:03 AM

I was wondering about the guafenesin angle...because there are a lot of places that sell ephedrine/guafenesin, but I don't need a damned expectorant. Is this (a) to prevent abuse or (b) really a valid bronchodilator/expectorant combo that actually has more medical value than other such shit?

7/22/2009 9:19:41 AM

Nitor or Thermocin

http://www.atlargenutrition.com

7/22/2009 12:20:56 PM

ooooh, this could be of interest to me.

i am scared of these things really...( i used to have a pretty severe cardiac arrhythmia-my heart was going too fast and really irregular, it has since gotten much, much better-almost 100% improvement but my metabolism is still crazy low )

nice to see what options there are for an occasional "boost"

[Edited on July 22, 2009 at 12:30 PM. Reason : sfrdfd]

7/22/2009 12:29:42 PM

Just find a shady gas station.

7/22/2009 12:34:16 PM

I thought this thread was about H2SO4.

7/22/2009 12:48:21 PM

Why in the blue fuck do I want to drink sulfuric acid?

7/22/2009 1:54:54 PM

Back to the top, TWW. Share your plethora of knowledge.

7/27/2009 10:01:14 AM

animal cuts

7/27/2009 3:45:49 PM

Why don't we just consolidate all of this stuff into an ***OFFICIAL TWW METH LAB THREAD***?

7/27/2009 4:22:50 PM

Quote :

"ooooh, this could be of interest to me. i am scared of these things really...( i used to have a pretty severe cardiac arrhythmia-my heart was going too fast and really irregular, it has since gotten much, much better-almost 100% improvement but my metabolism is still crazy low ) nice to see what options there are for an occasional "boost" [Edited on July 22, 2009 at 12:30 PM. Reason : sfrdfd]"

ok seriously joie, you dont need to fuck with this............arent you getting ready to go to pharmacy school??!!!!

if you dont know better now, i hope you know better in 4 years


otherwise, some paramedic is going to be lighting your ass up with 360joules one day on top of breaking a few ribs

7/27/2009 4:41:20 PM

really? really?


i'm not even gonna defend that remark with other than saying

im not as stupid as you think i am.

(AMAZING HUH?)





[Edited on July 27, 2009 at 5:30 PM. Reason : maybe i should define "boost"-im looking at ingredients. ie-cinnamon.]

7/27/2009 5:07:56 PM

seriously look up clenbuterol.

7/27/2009 5:13:10 PM

oh geez.

makes my heart palpitate just reading it...there's a weightloss site devoted to it

7/27/2009 5:18:46 PM

lol, my buddies take it in the winter but usually won't touch it in the summer. I forget how much it raises your core temperature. Shit works though, which was the question in the OP.

Damn, I totally didn't see eleusis mention that in the second post >.<

7/27/2009 5:22:03 PM

how does it change your buddies' personalities?

i mean theyll obviously be more wired but in what sense?

[Edited on July 27, 2009 at 5:26 PM. Reason : im confusing.]

7/27/2009 5:25:57 PM

holy fuck.

i knew there were some stupid TWWers, but i didn't know any of them were THIS stupid.



go right ahead. it's lots of fun to get shocked and tubed.

7/27/2009 5:59:08 PM

I haven't been around them enough during and after their cycles (lol) to notice any significant personality changes. If you just mean do they go crazy like some jacked up meth fiend while taking it, then no. I can't imagine it being that much more intense than an extra hefty dose of the aforementioned E/C/A stack or someone without "ADHD" taking adderall to study. I really have no authority on the subject, you'd have to do your own research.

I just happened to have been talking with one of them about working out and weight loss the other day and we got off on a clenbuterol tangent. I might actually see what's up with phentermine though.

^lol

[Edited on July 27, 2009 at 6:03 PM. Reason : .]

7/27/2009 6:02:48 PM

^^what do you think puts you at a higher risk of getting shocked and tubed - being overweight or using stimulants? if clenbuterol was that bad, then why is it prescribed for asthma in Europe? why do we prescribe albuterol (same effects but not as profitable to manufacture) in the US for asthma?

clenbuterol has almost no mental effects, so it won't make you act differently. it doesn't make you feel jacked up and overheated like ephedrine and phentermine do.

7/27/2009 7:54:43 PM

#1 online research chem. retailers

7/27/2009 8:06:57 PM

ive seen a coworker with asthma puff herself into supraventricular tachycardia with albuterol.


she had to leave the floor and go to the ED, where she begged them not to intubate her.

7/27/2009 8:07:18 PM

^that makes me shudder.

7/27/2009 8:10:06 PM

never really liked the way i felt while taking thermogenics. always make me want to rage out on everyone

7/28/2009 9:13:13 AM

RAGE?

haha, I can see a "pumped up" or "psyched up" effect, but rage? Like those that blame test for rage, you might want to look elsewhere (or w/ in ) for the source of your "rage" .

7/28/2009 9:31:22 AM

workouts were always good. but other times during the day i would become a little short tempered around other people.

7/28/2009 9:37:00 AM

60ct Primatene is on clearance at CVS atm, $2.75 for a month long supply for you EC/A stackers

7/28/2009 10:07:54 AM

^Is that basically Broncaid?

7/30/2009 3:34:01 PM

yes, 12.5mg E HCL, 200mg Gua per

[Edited on July 30, 2009 at 9:30 PM. Reason : #s]

7/30/2009 9:29:52 PM

Quote :

"what do you think puts you at a higher risk of getting shocked and tubed - being overweight or using stimulants? if clenbuterol was that bad, then why is it prescribed for asthma in Europe? why do we prescribe albuterol (same effects but not as profitable to manufacture) in the US for asthma?"

1) i'd say it's a tossup, but i haven't seen any studies comparing the two.
2) because for certain asthma patients, their physician/NP/PA determined that the benefits of using that medication outweighed the risks associated with their individual condition.
3) because for certain asthma patients, their physician/NP/PA determined that the benefits of using that medication outweighed the risks associated with their individual condition.

also, albuterol/levalbuterol/clenbuterol/other beta-2 agonists affect your beta-2 receptors (duh)... which mainly causes smooth muscle relaxation (hence the reason it's good for asthma). yes, it also makes you tachy because it's a positive chronotrope/inotrope and increases automaticity of your cardiac tissue. ephedrine does have some weak alpha/beta receptor effects, but the real reason it works is that, generally speaking, your body can't tell the difference between it and epinephrine.

furthermore, clenbuterol sticks around MUCH longer than albuterol - yes, it has the same general effects, but they are for a much longer duration. that's what makes it somewhat dangerous. if i had to pick one that was the "safest," i'd definitely go with the albuterol.

you can't really compare the two (ephedrine/amphetamine and albuterol/clenbuterol) - they are essentially two different classes of drug with two distinct mechanisms of action.

7/30/2009 11:20:26 PM

maybe we should just recommend DNP and be done with it.

7/30/2009 11:45:14 PM

http://www.hotnfit.com/ecstack.htm

7/31/2009 10:54:30 AM

No Primatine 60ct at any Greenville stores

One store said it's discontinued which would explain clearance.

7/31/2009 4:33:17 PM