I believe, in North Carolina, you are not required to give any identifying information to an officer or answer any questions while stopped on the street unless you're being detained for a crime.

While in a vehicle, you do have to provide identification:

Quote :

"§ 20-29. Surrender of license. Any person operating or in charge of a motor vehicle, when requested by an officer in uniform, or, in the event of accident in which the vehicle which he is operating or in charge of shall be involved, when requested by any other person, who shall refuse to write his name for the purpose of identification or to give his name and address and the name and address of the owner of such vehicle, or who shall give a false name or address, or who shall refuse, on demand of such officer or such other person, to produce his license and exhibit same to such officer or such other person for the purpose of examination, or who shall refuse to surrender his license on demand of the Division, or fail to produce same when requested by a court of this State, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. Pickup notices for drivers' licenses or revocation or suspension of license notices and orders or demands issued by the Division for the surrender of such licenses may be served and executed by patrolmen or other peace officers or may be served in accordance with G.S. 20-48. Patrolmen and peace officers, while serving and executing such notices, orders and demands, shall have all the power and authority possessed by peace officers when serving the executing warrants charging violations of the criminal laws of the State. (1935, c. 52, s. 23; 1949, c. 583, s. 7; 1975, c. 716, s. 5; 1979, c. 667, s. 25; 1981, c. 938, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 323; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).) "

However you are allowed to refuse to answer any questions beyond that. You do have to comply with any officer instructions, though.

I have read that an officer can charge you with "resist and delay" for not providing your name when stopped on the street if he has "reasonable suspicion" to presume you were involved in a crime, however the statute:

Quote :

"§ 14-223. Resisting officers. If any person shall willfully and unlawfully resist, delay or obstruct a public officer in discharging or attempting to discharge a duty of his office, he shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1889, c. 51, s. 1; Rev., s. 3700; C.S., s. 4378; 1969, c. 1224, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 136; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)"

Is a bit vague.

Feel free to chime in.

8/26/2009 4:19:41 PM

also, they need your consent for anything beyond a terry pat down

8/26/2009 4:24:02 PM

Assuming on foot:
No need to identify unless you are being detained: Correct
They will usually let you know, or you ask: "Am I being detained?"
You are required to give your name, but do not have to provide physical proof.

Even Terry Stops require RAS or Officer 'Safety' reasoning.
They can't be done just for the hell of it.

[Edited on August 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM. Reason : .]

8/26/2009 4:29:07 PM

But doesn't it become circular reasoning, though?

Say I am going through a DWI stop.

Officer: License please. Where are you headed?

I hand the officer my license and say nothing.

Officer: Sir, I asked you a question.

By refusing to answer the question, have I not raised "probably cause" for the officer to further detain me? After all, his reasoning is that I should have no problem answering the question if I have nothing to hide.

8/26/2009 4:36:15 PM

No, not telling them where you are going doesn't raise to the level of probable cause.

Also, why not say something, even if it is a lie?

8/26/2009 4:40:39 PM

Fifth amendment protections.

As an example, let's continue the hypothetical story:

Say I am going through a DWI stop.

Officer: License please. Where are you headed?

Me: I'm headed to Shady Heights just down the way.

------

Now, unbeknownst to me, Shady Heights is also a popular buy area for narcotics. Now, by providing seemingly innocent information, I've suddenly become a suspect in the eyes of the officer. This is why I would never provide such information. You have no idea what the officer does or doesn't know, and saying anything can only incriminate you further.

8/26/2009 4:46:36 PM

telling them you are going to shady heights doesn't rise to the level of probably cause. Again, why not just lie?

8/26/2009 4:48:51 PM

i would imagine lying to the cops won't help things if you get held illegally

8/26/2009 4:51:35 PM

In his hypothetical he isn't being held for anything.

8/26/2009 4:53:28 PM

But, once you've answered that question, where does it end?

Let's continue:

Officer: Shady Heights? Why are you headed to that neighborhood.

Me: Just visiting a friend.

------

Of course, he doesn't believe you. He believes you're heading there to purchase drugs. After all, why would you be headed there at this hour? He's going to keep holding you here to answer questions. He might even ask if he can look in your vehicle. Would you refuse? Probably not, after all... you have nothing to hide, right? I suppose you can let him violate most of your constitutional rights tonight.

8/26/2009 4:54:19 PM

i'm just saying, i don't think it's a good idea to lie to the cops in general. better to say nothing at all than lie.

8/26/2009 4:54:36 PM

The point of this thread wasn't to debate hypotheticals or whether or not it's a "good idea" to refuse to answer questions. We all know that it isn't. We all know that officers will get pissed off that a "civilian" actually has the outright GALL to not just shrink away in their car and answer any of his inquiries.

I'm just exploring what citizens legally can and can't do when approached by an officer.

8/26/2009 4:56:20 PM

Even if you tell the truth, that can be incriminating. What if you actually were seeing a friend at Shady Heights? That could still incriminate you.

8/26/2009 4:58:55 PM

If you lie, and for whatever reason come under suspicion for some other crime, you may be convicted on that basis alone.

It will also be considered an aggravating factor upon that conviction.

This has been posted before, but it's the BEST lecture on the topic I've seen. It's a 30-minute lecture from a Law prof. at Regent University..."Don't Talk to the Police."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik - Part 1, the lecture by the Prof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE - Part 2, a response by a 3rd year law student and police officer.

8/26/2009 5:02:13 PM

Are we talking about a DWI check point or are we talking about you being pulled over by the police during a probable cause stop?

8/26/2009 5:32:21 PM

So what are you required to tell an officer if you're going through a DUI checkpoint. Can you just hand them your license and then tell them that you're not saying anything else? Do they have the right to do anything other than let you go at that point?

8/26/2009 5:38:07 PM

Or, approached on the street as in the OP?

8/26/2009 5:38:26 PM

lol every kid is taught how columbus was a filthy slave owning liar now, but not one knows what will or will not get his life ruined by the police. sweet

8/26/2009 6:05:57 PM

Quote :

"Assuming on foot: No need to identify unless you are being detained: Correct They will usually let you know, or you ask: "Am I being detained?" You are required to give your name, but do not have to provide physical proof."

This is very good advice I'll remember it.

You can ask an officer what your rights are. But there's no substitute to know your rights.

The youtube videos are good quality stuff. Assume that the cops will freely plant drugs in your car if they're allowed to search you. Assume that the cops who are questioning you are criminals, that is the safest course of action. That is why you should stay silent while innocent. You're innocent, but the cops are not, and you will pay for their wrongs. It has nothing to do with what you have or do not have to hide.

8/26/2009 6:20:09 PM

Quote :

"lol every kid is taught how columbus was a filthy slave owning liar now, but not one knows what will or will not get his life ruined by the police. sweet"

Apparently you were taught neither.

8/26/2009 7:28:34 PM

I hate it when someone asks me a question, and I want to tell the truth, but the truth is so absurd that it sounds like a lie. It's like you're fucked either way.

8/26/2009 9:40:08 PM

^ haha, those situations do suck

8/26/2009 9:43:50 PM

Why do they have to write these laws so long and complicated? What are they trying to hide? How are ordinary people suppose to understand them? Why do they need so many paragraphs to just say "listen to the police"?

8/26/2009 11:41:12 PM

Ambiguity allows for flexibility.

Do you know that the courts have established as precedent that a cop can legally pull you over for:

- Driving over the speed limit
- Driving under the speed limit
- Driving the exact speed limit

8/27/2009 8:36:21 AM

Quote :

"Officer: License please. Where are you headed? I hand the officer my license and say nothing. Officer: Sir, I asked you a question. By refusing to answer the question, have I not raised "probably cause" for the officer to further detain me? After all, his reasoning is that I should have no problem answering the question if I have nothing to hide."

It would be odd to act as if your ears don't work, though. If you don't want to tell him where you're going, that's a fine choice. But it seems like you could acknowledge that he's standing there and you heard him speak, and say "That's not a question I'm required to answer" or something along those lines.

I mean, from the cop's POV, if I asked someone a question, and they did not say anything or react or whatever, I'm more likely to either ask again...until I get some sort of a response, or somehow further get involved.

8/27/2009 9:43:03 AM

This thread is all over the map. What is the inherent question here? Are we talking about voluntary contacts? Traffic Stops? Investigative Detentions? Custodial Interrogation?

8/27/2009 10:18:39 AM

Mainly I was asking about traffic stops, foot stops, and any general "You're not under arrest, but I am going to ask you some questions because I want to and you're going to answer them because I'm a cop and if you don't I'll make your live miserable" situations.

8/27/2009 10:25:09 AM

Well for a traffic stop, you don't have to answer anything but you must produce a license. If its a DWI, you don't have to do anything either but remember if you are asked to provided a chemical sample and you don't, you are looking at 13 months of suspension; even then there is always a search warrant.

As far as a voluntary stop (i.e. field contact, etc) you don't have to say a word or even stop. There is not a damn thing the police can do. This is for a totally voluntary contact and does not include an investigative detention.

8/27/2009 10:35:38 AM

But if the cop orders you to stop you have to stop, correct?

I think the big gray area comes into play when you bring in things like detainment times and what not. For example, if I was stopped by a cop while driving my vehicle, and if I refused to answer a question about whether or not I had been drinking that night, the officer could hold me for a reasonable amount of time without detainment. The question, of course, is what constitutes a reasonable amount of time, and how long can he be a dick and hold me for not just answering his question.

8/27/2009 10:40:46 AM

If he/she orders you to stop; i.e. "Stop right there or you are going to jail." - You need to stop

If he/she asks you to stop; i.e. "Hey man whats up, can you talk to me for a second" - You can do whatever.

As far as suspicion of DWI. If they ask if you have been drinking they are fishing or they already have enough to articulate that you might have been. There is no magic time for a detention; reasonableness reigns supreme.

8/27/2009 10:52:45 AM

Quote :

" For example, if I was stopped by a cop while driving my vehicle, and if I refused to answer a question about whether or not I had been drinking that night, the officer could hold me for a reasonable amount of time without detainment. The question, of course, is what constitutes a reasonable amount of time, and how long can he be a dick and hold me for not just answering his question. "

At that point, you are being detained.

8/27/2009 11:08:19 AM

Well, yes. The unfortunate point here is that it seems to have become such a standard for a citizen to answer any questions freely that refusing to answer any appears to give a semblance of guilt. I'll quote an answer to a question from an actual police officer in Garner:

http://www.ci.garner.nc.us/police/BehindTheBadge/Documents/Identify.pdf

Quote :

"Persons who obstruct, delay or otherwise hinder an officer’s lawful ability to conduct an investigation – based on reasonable suspicion - can be charged with resisting and delaying. This includes lying, providing misleading information or an unwillingness to divulge non-incriminating details needed to establish guilt or innocence. Besides, what’s in a name if you are truly innocent of any wrong doing?"

The issue here is not in the law, but the assumption by the officer that a citizen should be freely open to give up any information, even if they're not required to, because they have nothing to hide.

This is such a slippery slope, as we can see.

What's the harm in answering a few questions. If you're truly innocent, you have nothing to hide!
What's the harm in providing a DNA sample. If you're truly innocent, you have nothing to hide!
What's the harm in letting us tap your phones. If you're truly innocent, you have nothing to hide!

8/27/2009 11:08:44 AM

I've always thought that if he asks you, then he doesn't have the authority and is trying to get consent. If he tells you or orders you, you have to do it. If whatever he is ordering you to do is illegal, then fight it in court afterward, but don't disobey a direct order.

8/27/2009 12:04:23 PM

No, if he's ordering you to do something he doesn't have the authority to do, then still don't do it unless it would be avoiding arrest or something like that. that's why there's no substitute for knowing your rights.

It goes like this:

"Give me your name son"
"Am I being detained?"

If you are being detained, Miranda Rights apply. that means shut up. If you're not being detained, then you don't need to volunteer anything. If the officer needs your name, he/she can just illegally arrest you and read it for them self from you wallet, and then get it handed to them in court later.

8/27/2009 12:24:19 PM

Quote :

"If the officer needs your name, he/she can just illegally arrest you and read it for them self from you wallet, and then get it handed to them in court later."

This is just crazy to me. People actually do this? What kind of life do you live that you would take THAT much time out of your lives solely to prove a point (you being a general term and not quoted user)? If you did nothing wrong [or DID do something wrong and know it] why not just make it easy and get it over with quicker?

I got pulled in Nebraska for something I knew I did wrong (had no front plate and car was registered in CA which requires it -- I got away with it for 2 years in CA but got pulled in NE; go figure) and was respectful and answered every question the cop had. He did ask me why my car was packed and where I was headed and I told him. I was even speeding a bit.

Whole ordeal took 5 minutes and I got a simple verbal warning and that was that even though he could have given me a speeding ticket AND a violation for no front tag. I'm 100% confident he let me off scott-free because I was polite and answered everything he asked without hesitation.

8/27/2009 12:29:42 PM

Because it feeds into the whole mentality that is the problem with officers today. The idea that they are a higher class of person, that regular "civilians" have to answer any question they ask and follow any orders they give or else they will make their lives miserable.

In your anecdote, the officer should have treated you no different had you refused to answer his questions about why you had your luggage packed. You weren't violating any laws, you were expressing your right, by law, to keep your private life private.

8/27/2009 12:52:20 PM

I understand your point and if I did feel that any question was intrusive I would agree with you. And if I asked to search my car, I probably would have gotten annoyed. I just see too many anecdotes on here where a legitimate question is asked by a police officer and people take exception to it. I just don't see the big deal about answering a completely relevant question even though you don't feel like you should need to answer it. It just creates, rightfully or wrongfully, more of a headache for all those involved in most cases.

8/27/2009 12:59:51 PM

Quote :

"If you are being detained, Miranda Rights apply. "

Negative

8/27/2009 1:03:17 PM

But what about the question makes it relevant? When does it stop becoming relevant information and just a fishing expedition?

You were stopped for having no plate.

Is asking where you were headed relevant to whether or not you were guilty of having no front plate?
Is asking where you came from relevant to whether or not you were guilty of having no front plate?
Is asking why you have your car packed relevant to whether or not you were guilty of having no front plate?

In my opinion, none of these are necessary. None of the information that you would provide would assist the officer in determining your innocence or guilt related to this infraction.

What would have been a relevant question, then? Perhaps if he had asked you why you had no plate, or asked if you were familiar with the legislation in the county/state that requires vehicles to have a front license plate.

Anything else is just fishing for information.

8/27/2009 1:04:15 PM

My roomate was driving, and we were headed to a shooting range.
We were beside a sherrif for 3-5 minutes, and then pulled over.

He gave him a warning for 2mph over. This is after the deputy caught up to us, passed us, then slowed down and drove beside us.

He just asked my roomate a bunch of questions. It was all fishing, and if anything had come from it there would have been a court battle.

8/27/2009 1:39:15 PM

Threads like this are one of the reason why I drive the speed limit in the slow lane. I'm not going to get roped into a conversation with a cop where I can unintentionally incriminate myself if I can help it. And if for some reason I am pulled over or stopped by a cop, I'll identify myself and that's it.

To my knowledge, I'm not doing anything wrong, but hell, I don't know every law out there.

Quote :

"This is just crazy to me. People actually do this? What kind of life do you live that you would take THAT much time out of your lives solely to prove a point (you being a general term and not quoted user)? If you did nothing wrong [or DID do something wrong and know it] why not just make it easy and get it over with quicker?"

Because A) I don't know necessarily that I haven't done something that can be pinned on me one way or another and B)I don't know that the cop isn't an ass or forgetful and will turn what I've said against me. I don't intrinsically trust cops.

8/27/2009 1:54:26 PM

Quote :

"By refusing to answer the question, have I not raised "probably cause" for the officer to further detain me? After all, his reasoning is that I should have no problem answering the question if I have nothing to hide."

Why would a cop say this?

“Just going to Walmart officer”

Do they they think they would actually catch someone fessing up…

“Hey officer just running down the street to go beat my ex-wife or buy some drugs”

8/28/2009 9:05:19 AM

If you've ever seen an episode of COPS, surely you've seen a situation where a person got themselves in trouble by answering questions. If they stumble over their answer, if they slur their speech, if they mess up and reveal they were going to a neighborhood that's a known drug buying zone... any one of those could raise their suspicions.

The bottom line is that not answering should not be considered proof of guilt.

8/28/2009 9:22:43 AM

I would start laughing if a cop said they had probable cause because someone decided not to answer their questions. Is that already happening?

Look, if you're being stopped by a cop and they intend to arrest you, nothing you can say will help your case. If you're being stopped by a cop and they don't intend to arrest you, what the hell do they need to know about your life anyway? Either you're detaining me in an ongoing investigation (which I want a lawyer present) or your arresting me (which I want a lawyer present).

It's an outside chance, but what if they're currently looking for someone who committed a crime that matches my description? If I say anything incorrect..if I exaggerate something or misspeak, it will come back to bite me in the ass. Even in telling what I think is the truth, I could be implicating myself in one of the tens of thousands of crimes that I don't even know about.

I don't know the cop in question, I don't know if he's having a bad day and wants to bust someone. I don't know if he's going to screw up my statement and then it's a "his word against mine" situation. I do know that as an innocent person I am protected by the Constitution from the crazy clusterfuck our judicial system has become.

[Edited on August 28, 2009 at 9:25 AM. Reason : probablE]

8/28/2009 9:22:54 AM

Many people feel (NyM410 is one of them) that not answering just creates more trouble and is more likely to get you a ticket. They feel that if you're in a situation that you could possibly get a ticket (say if you were stopped for going 3 mph over the speed limit) that not answering a question could anger the police officer, and he would be more likely to ticket you as a form of retaliation.

8/28/2009 9:27:00 AM

Let's say you get stopped for going 3 over. (like anyone who is speeding ever gets stopped for this speed but I'll play)

If you say anything to the cop, and he decides to write you a ticket anyway, anything that you say will be used against you. Any little lie they can catch you in will mean that your piddly little 3 over ticket will not get tossed and you just made your situation worse.

Even worse if you say anything to the cop, you expose yourself to being implicated in any number of crimes that could be way more serious than going 3 over. Someone matching your description robbed a 7-11 in the area an hour ago. Now you start trying to talk your way out of a speeding ticket and say *ANYTHING* that could be used as evidence against you.

Also, you could be breaking any number of other laws and not even know it. Talking will only bring these to light.

Keep your mouth shut. Get your ticket and have it tossed for being 3 miles over the speed limit.

If you're speeding so excessively that it won't get tossed then keep your mouth shut and pay the price for speeding.

Or you can do what I do and not speed at all and reduce the likelihood that a cop will have a reason to pull me over and start this bullshit in the first place.

8/28/2009 9:44:10 AM