Quote :

"ALE agents armed with assault rifles; 2 are missing BY MICHAEL BIESECKER - Staff Writer Published: Sun, Sep. 13, 2009 03:40AM RALEIGH -- Every agent at the N.C. Division of Alcohol Law Enforcement has a state-issued assault rifle, and two of the expensive and powerful firearms are missing. "I am extremely concerned about this," said Bill Chandler, the state's ALE director since 2007. "We don't know where the weapons are." The thefts and an accidental shooting this summer have led to new policies at ALE. At the same time, the incidents have brought attention to the agency's growing arsenal. ]With just 104 full-time agents, ALE's primary responsibility is to enforce state laws on the purchase and sale of alcoholic beverages. Though its officers are rarely involved in situations where the use of deadly force is required, ALE is the only state law-enforcement agency to provide every agent with an assault rifle. "Wow, I didn't know they had those," said Sen. Ed Jones, a Democrat from Enfield who is a retired state trooper. "I'm sitting here trying to think of a good reason to justify why ALE would need that much firepower, but I'm having some trouble." Chandler, who has one of the agency's Sig assault rifles, said Friday that the weapons are essential for his agents. On Dec. 11, ALE Agent Bryan S. Irvin reported that his state-issued Sig Sauer model 552 assault rifle was stolen out of a Pontiac Grand Prix in the driveway of his home. Also stolen were two 30- round magazines, a targeting laser and a barrel-mounted tactical flashlight. There were no signs of forced entry, according to a report filed by the Davie County Sheriff's Office. On March 4, Agent Derwin Brayboy reported to Fayetteville Police that his Sig assault rifle was missing. Brayboy was unsure how long his weapon had been gone, but he suggested in an internal ALE report that it might have been stolen out of the trunk of his car 11 days earlier as he raided a nightclub. ALE issued new procedures following the thefts and now requires agents to inventory their equipment each week. They must check boxes to confirm they still have their handgun, assault rifle, bullet-resistant vest, walkie-talkie, binoculars and badge. Securing side arms On July 20, the same day an agent in Charlotte reported that his handgun had been stolen out of his car, Chandler sent an e-mail instructing his officers to secure their side arms with handcuffs. "The weapon shall be locked with the cable through the trigger guard," wrote Chandler. "If the cable will not fit through the trigger guard ... handcuffs should be locked around the weapon cable and the weapon should be covered so as to hide it." On Aug 24, ALE Special Agent Nelson W. Corthell accidentally shot himself in the hand at home in Hendersonville. The bullet lodged in his arm, according to his 911 call. About two hours later, another e-mail was sent to all ALE officers. "Whenever you secure a weapon using the issued cable lock or any other means (handcuffs, etc.) it is vital that the weapon be rendered safe by unloading it," wrote Patrick Forbis, a special agent-in-charge in Elizabeth City. "This unloading should be done first prior to placing any security device on the weapon." A salesman at Hill's Sporting Goods, a Raleigh gun store, said Friday that he has never heard of anyone using handcuffs to secure a firearm, especially a loaded one. "That doesn't sound safe," said Bobby Simpson, who has sold rifles and pistols for 36 years. Trigger locks designed for safely storing handguns are available at the store for $14 each, he said. This is not the first time ALE officials have had to answer questions about the agency's handling of firearms. ALE Director Ronald Dale resigned in 1997 as The News & Observer reported that the agency had bought M-14 rifles, a military weapon that can be fired like a machine gun. Dale kept three at his hunting lodge. "

So not only do they lie on citations and in court to dick over broke college kids, they also "lose" assault weapons and sell them to crooks. Why does a law enforcement agency that hangs out in grocery store parking lots looking for 19 year olds to bust for beer need assault rifles?

9/13/2009 9:48:47 PM

old

see Chit Chat

9/13/2009 9:50:32 PM

message_topic.aspx?topic=576275

Losing them does seem pretty bad though, not quite sure what they consider to be proper procedures for securing their rifles.

9/13/2009 9:50:54 PM

ale isnt a huge tax waste


they hire the worst of the worst as far as law enforcement officials

9/13/2009 9:53:35 PM

Why most people see the ALE as the Food Lion Predators, they are the most powerful law enforcement agency in the state. They do a lot of narcotic work that would necessitate the use of specialty weapons.

That being said, how do you lose a gun? Most departments I know have orders against leaving weapons in cars.

9/13/2009 10:00:55 PM

I understand why they might need some "assault rifles" when it comes to raiding moonshining/meth operations, but there is no need for all of them to be issued with assault rifles and there is no need for these agents to take their assault rifles home with them.

9/13/2009 10:03:39 PM

ALE also supplies the boxing comission and the officers that work boxing, toughman, and Mma events and oversee the weighins and enforce the suspensions

i found that kind of odd, but its interesting

they all tote heat

9/13/2009 10:07:57 PM

lol i'd like to see anyone try and fire a M-14 like a machine gun...just because it has a full auto doesn't mean you can actually use it on full auto...i tried and failed miserably. they are, however, excellent sniping rifles and that's how we used them

9/13/2009 11:11:43 PM

Quote :

"They do a lot of narcotic work that would necessitate the use of specialty weapons. "

they should have response teams for that with members who, among other things, know how to secure their weapon and can account for it.

9/13/2009 11:21:22 PM

9/13/2009 11:41:57 PM

Quote :

"Why most people see the ALE as the Food Lion Predators, they are the most powerful law enforcement agency in the state. They do a lot of narcotic work that would necessitate the use of specialty weapons."

Why do they do a lot of narcotic work? And if they are the most powerful law enforcement agency in the state, why are there only 100 people in a state of 9 million?

Regardless of whether it is true or not, that just doesn't make any sense to me.

9/14/2009 12:16:28 AM

Because they have the ability to start narcotic investigations; illegal liquor and drugs go hand and hand. There is only a hundred because many cities or counties have their own ABC board and their own ABC Agents; Wake County has their own.

ALE is the most powerful agency in the state because they can enforce any North Carolina statue in any part of the state.

9/14/2009 12:37:16 AM

so what is the SBI then? and how are they not the top dogs in the state?

9/14/2009 1:15:19 AM

The SBI only has original jurisdiction in drug cases, arson, election laws, day care abuses, state property crimes and cyber crimes. They can investigate any other crime if requested by another agency. For example, if some small town has complex case that requires the resources that the SBI has.

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 1:21 AM. Reason : ....]

9/14/2009 1:20:48 AM

What about the DNR and game wardens?

9/14/2009 1:24:51 AM

Their original jurisdiction is wildlife laws. Just like the SBI, NCSHP and NCWRC, they are all state law enforcement officers who have jurisdiction all over the state. But by general statue and/or general orders, their operations are limited to their expertise.

9/14/2009 1:29:10 AM

so regardless of the "it is what it is" situation with ALE, they seem completely redundant. If we're cutting teacher pay and all that other shit, I think whatever ALE does can be absorbed by the various other law enforcement groups in the state.

FIRE THEY ASSES

9/14/2009 7:31:53 AM

Alcohol Law Enforcement Division History

Quote :

"YEAR EVENT 1920 Prohibition and moonshining resulted in rampant crime and corruption 1933 Congress repealed prohibition, but enforcement was fragmented and varied greatly by county 1937 North Carolina Legislature created State ABC Commission 1949 Statewide ABC Enforcement Division created 1971 ABC Officers are given full powers of arrest 1977 Crime Control and Public Safety formed; ALE created from ABC Enforcement 1978 Liquor-by-the-drink approved in >North Carolina> 1986 Legal drinking age raised to 21 1994 First ALE manpower increase since 1972 (13 agents) "

So pretty much ALE is a holdover from prohibition when alcohol dealers operated like drug cartels, now they just look for 20 year old's to pop with a beer.




http://www.nccrimecontrol.org/Index2.cfm?a=000003,000005,000385

9/14/2009 8:47:32 AM

interesting.

9/14/2009 10:34:44 AM

Quote :

"now they just look for 20 year old's to pop with a beer. "

Not so much. Moonshining is still a huge problem in this state.

also, I wouldn't merge the powers of ALE with local law enforcement. As of right now, ALE is the only agency authorized to enter into private clubs and enforce alcohol laws. Give those powers to local law enforcement and your night out on the town will suck.

9/14/2009 10:38:16 AM

Yeah, guys like popcorn sutton are a huge threat to society.

Those were some tax dollars well spent.

9/14/2009 10:44:03 AM

Quote :

"Not so much. Moonshining is still a huge problem in this state. "

I wouldn't exactly call it a problem.

9/14/2009 12:22:43 PM

I'm more surprised that that the article used the term "assault rifle" correctly. As in, an actual fully-automatic, non civvie-legal rifle.

9/14/2009 2:07:14 PM

^lol, true.

9/14/2009 2:29:27 PM

How much do 104 assault rifles cost?

9/14/2009 2:48:28 PM

$taxes

9/14/2009 2:54:00 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, guys like popcorn sutton are a huge threat to society. Those were some tax dollars well spent."

I know, we all have mythologized ideals of who and what moonshiners are, but shiners like Popcorn Sutton are few and far between.

Meth production and moonshining go hand in hand.

9/14/2009 2:59:37 PM

Those Sig-Sauer rifles are over the counter around 1500, I'm sure that they got some special pricing but still.

9/14/2009 3:03:06 PM

Sig rifles are fucking bad ass.

I poked around online and it looks like LEOs can get them for ~$1500 each.

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 3:04 PM. Reason : ^ what he said]

9/14/2009 3:03:51 PM

Man if this were the US Army, they'd have the entire ALE staff on lockdown until those weapons were found. Apparently it's not a huge issue to them.

9/14/2009 3:35:31 PM

Quote :

"Meth production and moonshining go hand in hand."

so is it meth production or moonshining that's the problem? You specifically said 'moonshining is a huge problem' before.

Secondly, is it ALE whose primary responsibility is to investigate and enforces drug trafficking? Seems doubtful a force of 104 is tasked with drug enforcement for the entire state.

9/14/2009 3:37:57 PM

Quote :

"so is it meth production or moonshining that's the problem? You specifically said 'moonshining is a huge problem' before. Secondly, is it ALE whose primary responsibility is to investigate and enforces drug trafficking? Seems doubtful a force of 104 is tasked with drug enforcement for the entire state."

The general act of lawlessness and the culture that develops around it is a problem.

ALE's primary obligation is to enforce alcohol and tobacco laws in the State of North Carolina. It just so happens that during the investigation of moonshining and other alcohol law violations they run into drug manufacturing as well.

The general idea that moonshiners are nothing more than a bunch of good ole boys making shine like daddy did is no longer true. It is largely run by the same cartels that are invovled in the manufacturing and distribution of meth.

Also, as ALE agents have sole jurisdictional authority over night clubs they run into a lot of drug problems there was well.

Do they need 104 of these guns? No. Is the organization too bloated and full of itself? Yes.

9/14/2009 4:06:44 PM

i heard one of these tools talking during alcohol class

i have never seen someone so excited about getting to tackling a college student running out of an abc store it was scary

9/15/2009 1:45:11 AM

Why does a police group dedicated to harassing college students just trying a have a beer at football tailgatess and law-abiding
food lion customers walking out of the store, need assault rifles?

Johnson grab our assault rifles, college kids having fun detected this may get nasty!

Quote :

"illegal liquor and drugs go hand and hand"

and illegal under age consumption and marijuana pot smoking

9/15/2009 7:29:51 AM

Quote :

"So not only do they lie on citations"

whats this all about?

9/15/2009 9:08:13 AM

Meth production is not a problem, Attorney General Roy Cooper solved that problem already. There's no way that methamphetamine production can ever be a problem in North Carolina, we'll never need the ALE to worry about that.

As few as 40 years ago, bootleggin was a lot of good ole boys going against the g-men, but that's not the case anymore. And wasn't the FBI who worried about that way back when? It used to be the case that bootlegging was used to make money on the side, but now it has been conglomerated by drug cartels. What a step forward.

Did anyone ever find that trailer of booze from last year?

9/15/2009 9:34:13 AM

Quote :

"The general idea that moonshiners are nothing more than a bunch of good ole boys making shine like daddy did is no longer true."

While I agree that drug cartels are involved in moonshining, the fact that the good ole boys are still making their own moonshine. The problem is that your ALE agents are lazy pieces of shit who go after the low hanging fruit, just like other law enforcement. I would also assume that these folks are happy to take bribes to leave the cartels alone.

If you can't tell, I have very little respect for these human wastes. Maybe even less so than tarheel fans.

9/15/2009 10:13:22 AM

Quote :

"Why does a police group dedicated to harassing college students just trying a have a beer at football tailgatess and law-abiding food lion customers walking out of the store, need assault rifles?"

not that i think law abiding people need to be harassed . . .

but this is kind of a funny argument at the school where a drunk and his brother shot and killed two people while tailgating


[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 10:28 AM. Reason : -]

9/15/2009 10:27:18 AM

^^I agree that major reforms need to happen with in the agency. Popcorn got popped because he was blatant and in the face of the ALE and the Federal Government.

9/15/2009 10:55:48 AM

^^ha win

9/15/2009 11:13:57 AM

^^^

And ALE agents would have prevented this how?

9/15/2009 11:21:34 AM

gee i dono....

9/15/2009 11:22:23 AM

unless they're going to search everyone that comes into the tailgating area, you can't argue that this was preventable. Crazy ass people will do crazy ass things, and this had much more to do with cocaine than alcohol.

You can never fully secure an open area with a large number of people without taking ridiculous, draconian measures.

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:34 AM. Reason : a]

9/15/2009 11:33:23 AM

then im calling for more law enforcement at tailgates

id be more worried about the fact that drunk asses leave the game and bowl over shitloads of pedestrians not even a half fuckin mile from the tailgate area



[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:38 AM. Reason : u]

9/15/2009 11:37:52 AM

Well they could have just unloaded a few clips into underage drinkers, people with pocket knives, drunk drivers, etc. That'd probably make people think twice about doing anything illegal during tailgating, especially bringing a gun/using it.

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:40 AM. Reason : or starting a fight... or doing anything really]

9/15/2009 11:39:12 AM

^^^^ no one said anything about preventing it.

the comment was basically "why would ALE at a football game need assault rifles?"

assault rifle vs normal service firearm is a different argument i guess, but in general regarding why ALE agents might need to be armed, my response is that apparently there IS a chance of drunk rednecks showing up with their shootin' iron blazing because someone hurt their feelings

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:56 AM. Reason : ^^ that dude was just a local drunk passing through, not a tailgater]

9/15/2009 11:54:19 AM

IMO, ALE agents cause more damage to the public perception of Law Enforcement Officers than any other department in the state. For this reason alone they should be more regulated or completely disolved. Basically, the state takes the youngest LEO's they can find who don't really fit in with other departments. Then, they give them assault rifles, statewide jurisdiction and turn them loose. The state is just asking for problems with these guys.

9/15/2009 12:12:06 PM

I don't think its a good idea to dissolve the ALE. All other law enforcement offices have jobs to do too, and they don't need to bear the burden of picking up ALEs slack. I don't feel like this problem would be isolated to ALE if other departments had the assault rifles. There are idiots everywhere, and idiots with firearms and weapons in general are what is dangerous - be it a single-shot rifle, assault rifle, pistol, shotgun, or a pocket knife!

If you dug around online long enough, you would find many instances of LEOs losing guns, shooting themselves or others by accident, or having weapons stolen and not knowing about it until later. Stupid? Yes! Dangerous? Yes! Isolated insident to ALE? No!

However, to have this many cases of misuse of a firearm by a single department, it sounds like they need to clean house! You could refill the positions with people who have concealed carry permits and expect them to have a little better knowledge of safe firearm handling and storage than this. You can bet your paycheck that I would know within hours if any one of my firearms were missing!

Quote :

"""The weapon shall be locked with the cable through the trigger guard," wrote Chandler. "If the cable will not fit through the trigger guard ... handcuffs should be locked around the weapon cable and the weapon should be covered so as to hide it.""

It makes no sense to me how a CABLE could not fit through a trigger guard... Again, idiots are the danger here!

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 1:41 PM. Reason : ]

9/15/2009 1:28:57 PM

^nice long post there, that completely lacked any reason to keep the ALE around.


gg

9/15/2009 4:28:24 PM

Quote :

": ^^ that dude was just a local drunk passing through, not a tailgater]"

thats largely irrelevant since the likelihood of a drunk driving from the tailgate area is slightly increased around game time

9/15/2009 4:50:55 PM