Some ABC stores lose money despite N.C.'s booze control
Nov. 2, 2009

Quote :

"Stores in many counties, especially those with a large population, do well, according to the report. However, in rural areas, about 40 ABC stores are struggling and a few are losing money. 'We have ABC boards that lose money. They lose money selling liquor,' said Carol Shaw, who headed up the General Assembly's study [she sounded surprised in the video--and rightly so]."

Quote :

"Audits showed that the Pembroke ABC store had thousands in cash and liquor missing for five years before the State ABC Commission closed the doors. An audit for the fiscal year that ended June 30, 2008 showed more than 3,000 bottles of liquor, valued at more than $20,000, were missing from the store. The store also reported losing almost $35,000 on almost $500,000 in sales."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/6329874/

Video:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/video/6333641/

This story got me thinking: Is it time to privatize liquor sales in North Carolina or otherwise update the state's 1937 ABC laws? My ideology says yes to privatization, of course, but what do some of you say?

11/3/2009 5:36:58 AM

My ideology has less to do with this than my love of a wide variety of reasonably-priced booze, but I would love it if NC had privately run liquor stores. My experiences out of state have generally involved helpful, knowledgeable sales staff, an amazing variety, and decent prices. I'm a big believer of the good that government can do, but I draw the line at gettin' people krunk.

Also, as a person running a small business that serves beer and wine, I know some of the laws in NC are pretty ridiculous. Doesn't come up much with what I do, but I can't imagine the hassle if you were running a bar or something like that.

11/3/2009 8:12:37 AM

Yeah, I experienced that, too, when I was in DC a few months ago--helpful staff, definitely more variety, and good prices.

11/3/2009 8:16:12 AM

NC liquor laws are ridiculous. Effing Baptists.

11/3/2009 8:24:50 AM

But then these people wouldn't have jerbs http://www.ncabc.com/aboutus/directory.aspx

11/3/2009 8:26:58 AM

but then you might be able to get liquor on saturday night! horror of horrors!

11/3/2009 8:27:22 AM

As of right now, the state keeps all profits from liquor sold and taxes said liquor. It seems like we would lose a lot of revenue of liquor was privatized, or they would have to tax the hell out of it.

11/3/2009 8:51:31 AM

I'd rather that money be in private hands. And there probably would be an increase in the number of liquor stores, which would probably also sell beer and wine.

The state could still take in revenue from permitting, taxes, fees, fines, and so on. They wouldn't have as much money, but why should they have it to begin with? Why should the state totally control sales of and keep profits from a legal product?

11/3/2009 9:05:35 AM

There is nothing to say this level of corruption wouldn't exist in a privatized market.

Then again, I guess it wouldn't be the government losing out, so.. i have no problem with this.

I hate our blue laws, I don't see why I can't buy alcohol on a Sunday morning while I'm at the store shopping. I'm getting ready to watch football all afternoon, I'm getting chips, and salsa, and cheese, and burgers, and hotdogs, and I can't buy the last ingredient to my perfect day...

I can *kinda* see the fuzzy logic about not allowing alcohol sales after 2. But to fully buy into it, I'd need to see evidence that drunk driving deaths/accidents would increase if we let places sell alcohol past 2am. Something tells me that there is absolutely nothing to support this, and some asshole picked 2am out of his ass as a good time for bars/stores to stop selling.

I don't really care that I have to buy liquor at a package store. I don't buy frequently enough for it to be a hassle for me.

11/3/2009 9:10:41 AM

I concur with the above posts.

11/3/2009 9:18:01 AM

Quote :

"I don't really care that I have to buy liquor at a package store. I don't buy frequently enough for it to be a hassle for me."

Exactly the opposite for me. I buy infrequently enough, that I won't ever go if I have to make a special trip.

Wisconsin grocery stores all sell liquor/wine/beer, it just has to be in a separate "section" of the store. It makes it much more convenient, and therefore more likely that people who don't drink a lot will end up buying more. I'm not going to make a special trip to the ABC store, but I might pick up a bottle of tequila if I have a craving for margaritas with my salsa. No state run stores, or blue laws. Then again, people in general drink a heck of a lot more in Wisconsin, and that may not be a public policy consideration NC wants to make.

[Edited on November 3, 2009 at 9:19 AM. Reason : ]

11/3/2009 9:18:33 AM

Yeah, and even though I generally support privatization, I can't say that I would like to see a liquor store on "every" corner. This certainly could happen--and if trends in other states are any indication, many of these new stand-alone liquor stores would head straight for low-income communities.

In the end, I believe the market would correct. A lot of stand-alone stores would probably pop up initially, but many of the poorly placed and/or poorly run ones would soon go out of business. Furthermore, community pressures in some areas would likely force out the stores that were simply undesired.


[Edited on November 3, 2009 at 9:24 AM. Reason : .]

11/3/2009 9:22:10 AM

^I don't think we'll end up with liquor stores on every corner. There aren't many freestanding stores in the part of Wisconsin my parents live in. Most are in grocery stores. But that could be the product of years of the market fleshing things out like you're referring too. But I also don't think there are a bunch of entrepreneurs sitting out there waiting to invest in poorly run stores as soon as the liquor laws are lifted.

11/3/2009 9:25:47 AM

private stores work well in Georgia - good selection, good hours, and convenient locations. and despite taxes, overall prices are pretty much the same in atlanta as i remember in NC. just doesn't seem to make much sense for a state government to run any type of store.

11/3/2009 9:32:43 AM

^^ I was thinking more of urban areas, like DC (well, the part I visited). And there would be a lot of former ABC stores available if North Carolina were to privatize--and there's a lot of old abandoned gas stations and Mom and Pop convenience stores now that would be ideal to start selling liquor.

^ Yep.

11/3/2009 9:41:32 AM

I live in Maine, and the way our liquor laws work from what i understand is pretty much any business can get a liscense, they just need to follow some straightforward guidelines. The result is that pretty much every grocery store has a liquor isle that has common stuff, and then there are also privately owned liquor stores that have a large variety of liquor and other beverages.

I dont think i've ever seen a gas station convenience store that sells liquor though. The profit margins for their existing products are probably higher and the additional cost+compliance with the regulations probably makes it unprofitable in most places.

11/3/2009 9:49:16 AM

Quote :

"My experiences out of state have generally involved helpful, knowledgeable sales staff, an amazing variety, and decent prices. "

11/3/2009 9:54:50 AM

Does anyone actually support these laws?

11/3/2009 10:00:18 AM

the gub'mt likes the tax revenue, they justify it by saying we are all going to be wreck-less alcoholics without them being in control.

11/3/2009 10:01:48 AM

Quote :

"Does anyone actually support these laws?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptists

11/3/2009 10:14:15 AM

Right, but how much power do they really have? This seems like a totally outdated series of laws. 90% of people that I ask about this don't know why the laws are still on the books. If we're just keeping it around to maintain the status quo...that's not a good reason to keep the laws around.

11/3/2009 10:19:27 AM

You should hang out with my mom. She was utterly horrified when they finally put an ABC store in Weaverville. (Yeah, I know these people are a minority of the population, but I think a large percentage of state legislators feel beholden to this vocal minority.)

11/3/2009 10:28:04 AM

I too think the current laws are ridiculous. When I lived in NJ and NY private liquor stores were the shit! Though I did find it a bit odd (in NY) that grocery stores can't sell wine.

I also think the law against happy hour drink specials is complete bullshit.

11/3/2009 10:28:28 AM

Wait, what? I'm almost 100% certain I bought some champagne at the Whole Foods on Houston Street like 2 weeks ago. Maybe I'm mistaken.

11/3/2009 10:30:08 AM

Hmm, well my memory of no wine was at a Wegman's in Rochester. When I lived in NYC I wasn't a huge wine drinker, and always bought wine at the liquor store out of habit. Considering grocery stores in NYC are so shitty to begin with. And Whole Foods in Union Square is usually a cluster fuck. They built another one on Houston?!?

11/3/2009 10:36:34 AM

Quote :

"We have ABC boards that lose money. They lose money selling liquor,'"

Wait a minute..you mean the "Public Option" on booze isn't working out?

11/3/2009 10:43:28 AM

Quote :

"I also think the law against happy hour drink specials is complete bullshit."

Back in the day (early to mid-'80s), you could buy beers for 25¢ a cup (those little clear cocktail cups) during happy hour. This club I would go to had trays like in a fast-food joint and you could fill them up with beers.

Times have changed.

^ LOL!

[Edited on November 3, 2009 at 10:46 AM. Reason : .]

11/3/2009 10:45:33 AM

I've never met a southern baptist that didn't drink.

But, as a teetotaler, I never knew the ABC stores were gov. run.

11/3/2009 10:46:07 AM

Quote :

"Then again, people in general drink a heck of a lot more in Wisconsin, and that may not be a public policy consideration NC wants to make."

This is where I'm headed after graduation

11/3/2009 11:31:09 AM

+1 for EarthDogg

11/3/2009 12:00:47 PM

Quote :

"Wait a minute..you mean the "Public Option" on booze isn't working out?"

*thinks it's okay for states to ban homosexuality*

*crows about liquor laws*

11/3/2009 12:03:29 PM

^what does that have to do with anything in this thread, other than your personal need to nut ride?

11/3/2009 12:09:17 PM

I definitely think we should take another look at these laws.

The fact that people steal liquor isn't real reason to do so though. I mean, Robeson County is dirt poor...of course, cash and liquor goes missing. That reality sounds more like a reason to improve education and incentivize economic opportunities in the region. And if we could build a barrier between us and that shit state South Carolina, that would be great too...

But, yeah, some new booze laws would be nice.

11/3/2009 12:23:35 PM

Two times in the last month I've accidentally tried to buy beer while grocery shopping on Sunday morning.

I don't even get what this law is supposed to do. Encourage me to go to church? Discourage drinking while attending church?

The Supreme Court needs to take another look at these things. A "secular days of rest" is total BS.

11/3/2009 12:32:50 PM

+1 for privatization

11/3/2009 12:37:30 PM

They won't give up the revenue and they won't risk crossing Southern Baptist types who resist easier access to booze. Don't get me wrong, I wish they would, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I'm from near Asheboro, which up until recently was the largest dry municipality in the country. It took them years and several attempts to just allow liquor by the drink.

11/3/2009 3:05:48 PM

How much do they lose annually on staff and real estate?

11/3/2009 3:09:38 PM

drive through liquor stores in ga ftmfw

11/3/2009 5:04:37 PM

Quote :

"Does anyone actually support these laws?"

Beer and Wine companies, their lobbyists, and their distributors. At least the laws keeping liquor out of the grocery store.

11/3/2009 5:18:29 PM

I hate shit like that. It's the same in Randolph County. When a town or the county tries to get wet, the people that run grocery stores and gas stations in nearby areas that already are wet run in and work against it.

11/3/2009 6:44:49 PM

Yup, enough people have built their businesses around these status quos that they'll fight tooth and nail to keep them that way.

I would imagine that any attempt to deregulate the selling of alcohol in NC would result in a massive campaign by the beer and wine industry, probably through lobbyists and on a PR front by funding towards MADD, SADD, and various Southern Baptist activist groups.

11/3/2009 7:09:01 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/6337412/

Quote :

""I suspect we could make more money getting out of it than we can staying in it," he said. Experts said they think the state is sitting on $200 million in total retail space. "If they sold the stores and then put that money in a trust, I think the interest you would earn would be as much as they earn now," Rand said. Another option would be turning the whole system over to private companies, which could net the state $700 million instantly, according to budget experts. They estimate that each year the state could add $5 million to $25 million more than what it is already getting in taxes on liquor sales."

Makes sense to me.

All of the opponents I've seen are worried about underage drinking and increased advertising.

11/3/2009 10:33:41 PM

I have to figure that the "underage drinking" market is already about as saturated as it's going to get. Off the top of my head I can name maybe three, four people tops that I know that I don't think drank underage.

11/3/2009 11:02:28 PM

^x6 We allow the sale of beer and wine at drive-throughs in North Carolina. I don't see why liquor should be any different.

11/3/2009 11:19:30 PM

^^ Agreed.

Typical "think of the children!" knee jerk reaction.

11/4/2009 12:20:48 AM

Well, underage drinking is inevitable, but the age at which it first occurs and how often it occurs after that varies widely.

11/4/2009 1:04:31 AM

^I think it also depends on how you "define" underage drinking. I'm going to go back to the Wisconsin example, just because they're so different. You can drink in public at 18 if you have parental permission (i.e. your parents are there with you). You can go into a bar at any age as long as it's with a parent. And if you're in the bar, the parent can buy their kids a drink, and give it to the kids at the bar's discretion (under 18).

This creates an atmosphere where kids "know how" to drink, and can do it in a responsible manner. There are a lot of DUIs in Wisconsin, but that is mostly older men and women. And that's partly because their DUI laws are so lazy. There's not even mandatory jail time until like your 6th DUI.

Now, I'm not saying NC would ever change their drinking laws to allow children to drink with their parents, but it is a different perspective that seems to work well there.

11/4/2009 9:08:52 AM

I think we can all agree that underage drinking is an amazing thing.

11/4/2009 11:40:05 PM

Wal-Mart sells liquor in Florida......

11/7/2009 9:48:19 PM

State examines ABC boards' salaries, ethics policies

Quote :

"RALEIGH, N.C. — ABC liquor stores across the state have a wide range of employee salaries and policies. That's because the state ABC commissioner has little say in how business is done, even though liquor sales are government-controlled in North Carolina."

Quote :

"For example, the highest ABC board salary in the state belongs to New Hanover County's administrator. He makes $214,000 a year with a $30,000 bonus, even though Mecklenburg County does triple the sales. In Asheville, the CEO received a $21,000 raise this year."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/6598131/

ABC administrator will consider pay cut
Dec 30, 2009

Quote :

"WILMINGTON, NC (WECT) - The administrator for the New Hanover County Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, Billy Williams, tells WECT that he is willing to look into the possibility of taking a pay cut, after public criticism over his more than $230,000 annual salary. The New Hanover County ABC Board met in a special session Wednesday to prepare for facing the public during next Monday's county commissioners meeting. Board members went over possible questions they'll face with their attorney."

Quote :

" The controversy surrounds a published report that revealed two ABC employees earn a combined annual salary of nearly $350,000. Administrator Billy Williams is paid more than $230,000 a year, while his son, Bradley, brings home $115,000 a year."

http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=11746026

1/4/2010 5:55:41 AM