Hi, I'm a Freshman at State this year and have an Honors 202 class on satire with Dr.Linker (if any of you had had her). Our final was to pick 5 of 6 quotes that she gives us, identify the quotes (where they were from and their context), and write about their relation to the overall goal of the satire that they came from. In a different section of the class, also taught by Linker, she said she was in a good mood and they'd only have to answer 2 of the 6 quotes. Quite frankly I think this is absolute bullshit.

This is my first semester of college so I don't know if this is something that had happened before, but do I have a legitimate case here to complain and bitch about this? I got a B in the class (which I was fine with), but a friend of mine in the other section (which was literally right after ours and who she had literally told us she liked better) who had lower overall grades in the class got a B+ and I'm pissed about it.

12/16/2009 11:36:27 AM

Welcome to college!

12/16/2009 11:46:44 AM

Quote :

"Welcome to college!"

Quote :

"This is my first semester of college so I don't know if this is something that had happened before, but do I have a legitimate case here to complain and bitch about this?"

Only bitch and complain to yourself, nothing you do will change your grade. Everybody that has been through college has a similar story.

12/16/2009 12:02:46 PM

basically if you want fair and even grading stick to math/science/engineering

fuck humanities, and fuck honors courses

answers should be either right or wrong, not 'who you like better as a person' or any other subjective bullshit that the enlightened professor feels they are entitled to

12/16/2009 12:29:05 PM

Quote :

"Our final was to pick 5 of 6 quotes that she gives us, identify the quotes (where they were from and their context), and write about their relation to the overall goal of the satire that they came from."

Is this honestly that difficult to do in the first place? Also, you're in an HONORS section...you shouldn't be complaining. You signed up for a "harder" class in the first place.

12/16/2009 12:51:18 PM

Got to agree with another poster... don't waste your time with a softball major. If your answer to a test isn't a number that you can circle when you're finished, then it's really all about how the teacher feels (and if you agree with their political point of view).

You're at a great school for science, math, and engineering; take advantage of it. These sciences professors are landing huge research grants, have close ties to industry, and have probably already started and sold a company and are now just teaching because they love it. Literature, sociology, english... not so much.

12/16/2009 12:59:22 PM

I'm not in a lit. or English major. I'm in Management/Accounting, but I'm in the Honors program and this is the class that I was assigned by my Honors adviser/counselor. And yes, it is an Honors class, but when we have 8 or 9 works of literature to read for the semester, and she picks 6 quotes for us to identify - it is difficult. My complaint isn't that the class was hard, it was that her final exam got substantially easier in the week inbetween the exam days for her class sections. It was literally the same format, it just took less than half the time of mine, and was MUCH easier. I've had teachers that had favored certain students/classes before, but never to this extreme. I didn't know if teachers changing their finals was something that happened a lot or not.

12/16/2009 1:45:03 PM

Well let's say you do complain. What are you going to gain from it? Nothing. She might get fired. That's all that could really happen. If you have the free time to go and write up an official complaint and hunt down all the people necessary to get your voice heard, go for it. Just know that it's probably not going to (positively) affect you much.

12/16/2009 2:07:42 PM

what exactly is your complaint?

I feel sorry for your ad visor/whomever you voice this, too. You will have wasted their time, and put them in an awkward situation. But after you leave, they will probably have a good laugh at your behalf, and make fun of you w/ their friends.

12/16/2009 2:23:20 PM

I was hoping for her to simply go back and grade 2 of the quotes we wrote on. I posted this on here to see if anyone else had a similar experience and how they may have dealt with it. And arcgreek, thanks for the smart ass answer, much appreciated.

12/16/2009 2:36:06 PM

Grow the fuck up.

12/16/2009 2:43:29 PM

once grades have been submitted to Registration & Records, I'm pretty sure things are set. If this had been a regular exam or a midterm or something, then you might have been able to get a regrade. You would probably be wasting your time and that of whoever you complained to as well. This kind of stuff happens in college all the time.

12/16/2009 2:58:46 PM

Ok then, thanks. I just had never heard of exams being changed so much from one section of a class to the next section. I greatly appreciate it.

12/16/2009 3:14:24 PM

somebody call the whaaambulance

12/16/2009 3:16:02 PM

fenway... college is going to be really hard for you if you let this upset you. Just be more prepared for the final next time. Who cares what happened in other classes.

12/16/2009 3:31:28 PM

would you be complaining if you were the luckier section?

I THINK NOT!

12/16/2009 3:55:02 PM

Separate sections of a class are just that. Their isn't any university rule or regulation requiring consistency between sections.

12/16/2009 4:01:16 PM

Is the other class an Honors class as well? I don't believe there is a policy on teaching all of your sections the same. In other words, it's not specifically not allowed, no matter how stupid it is. Unfortunately, there isn't much of anything you can do. If you get your entire class to complain to the department head then they might sack the prof but your grade won't change. Also, she could simply testify that the other class was not taught as thoroughly as your's due to unavoidable circumstances. The closest thing that has happened to me is different sections getting different curves. That policy pisses me off since it's simply based on the fact that one class might have one extra lazy bum that pulls down the class avg. Unless you really wanna persist, just bite your tongue and grind out 4 years of unfair grading just to be thrust out into an unfair world.

P.S. I'm in COM & ACC as well. Let me know if you need any help/advice.

12/16/2009 6:38:21 PM

Was the other section honors?? If not, you could imagine that the honors section would be tougher.

FYI: I had a similar experience in a French course when I was a freshman in college. I decided not to take any more French courses.

Switch to a STEM major (bio, chem, physics, math, engineering). Work for a few years, then get an MBA.

12/16/2009 6:51:59 PM

*sigh*. Folks, the question was can anything be done about it, not "criticize my major / thoughts on the matter". To answer the question:

http://www.ncsu.edu/policies/academic_affairs/courses_undergrad/REG02.20.14.php

There is no policy stating a professor may not do this action. Therefore, unfortunately, nothing can be done.

12/16/2009 7:16:29 PM

the last two replies have echoed what i said in tl;dr fashion.

12/16/2009 7:23:19 PM

make the teacher like you more. then you wouldn't be bitching.

12/16/2009 7:25:36 PM

As someone who has had a lot of experiences at NCSU, did my undergrad here, and am in grad school at NCSU now here are my thoughts.

A lack of policy specifically prohibiting an action makes it more difficult to tackle the situation, but not impossible. Depending on how strongly you feel about it you could talk to your adviser or department chair. But I've found sitting down and meeting with the professor and just talking to them about it to be the easiest way to deal any given situation where you have a concern that isn't specifically covered by the rule book, as long as you do so in a timely manner.

And don't buy into all the "get a science major, its more vocational" crap. I mean it is true to some degree compared to some majors, but working towards a job you don't wont because a message board told you to is obviously a bad idea, and college is about more than being just a vocational training program. And I've had classes where different sections that took the test at different times have had differing exams to prevent cheating, but it can also mean that one exam turns out harder than another. So inconsistent exams between class sections is not specific to any major.

Whatever happens, good luck.

[Edited on December 16, 2009 at 7:42 PM. Reason : .]

12/16/2009 7:41:46 PM

academic freedom

12/16/2009 7:49:17 PM

Haaaaaaaaaaahaha fenway you noob. Just go ahead and learn to accept that life isnt fair and just roll with it.

Example - Would you rather be someone who complains about how hard the SAT is and how its not fair to judge people on one test or would you just rather score well on it and laugh at people who dont perform well under pressure? Exactly.

Man up you noob.

12/16/2009 9:56:55 PM

Note that the majors in the "practical" and "anchored" sciences are telling you that your singular and identifiable problem is neither able to overcome or has any kind of alternative solution. You're getting a lot of muck poured in your ears from people who are doing our society such an awesome service by perpetuating the conservative idea that if you can't hold it in your hand or build a bridge out of it then it's not worth your time or effort. So rather than add to that discussion, I'll just say: fuck them, if they knew what they were talking about they wouldn't be so ignorant on the subject.


While there may be no specific rule or injunction that this teacher is violating with you, it does seem to have conflict with the academic integrity and equality policy that NCSU maintains. If you feel strongly enough about this issue, speak with an academic advisor, or try to talk to your Dean. Sitting back and idly ignoring something that bothers you morally and academically is not a great way to start your career or your life. Take initiative and at least try--especially if you are 100% certain that this actually even happened. Talk to someone, see what your options are, but never accept "that's just how it is" and "derp derp Humanities" as an excuse for anything, especially when it comes to something you're fucking paying for.

Get some backbone and DO something, it's a misconception to think that the more manlier or correct thing is to just sit back and take it. I hate to see the kind of social ignorance stewing in this thread, but that's not the issue, it's this event which has happened in your life. So, yea, whatever, talk to someone.

12/16/2009 11:03:36 PM

didn't read everything, but it's her choice. Perhaps she liked the other section more because they interacted in class more? If that's the case, she may have a better idea of who knows what, regardless of how well they test.

Remember, tests/exams are meant to assess what the student has learned and what the instructor has taught. And they are just one means of doing so. Perhaps she felt she needed your section to answer more questions in order to get a better grasp of what you've learned from the course. Some people just don't test well but can carry a coherent, in-depth conversation on the topic. Others test well, but don't perform as well in other areas. Exams are a big deal as far as "oh, finals are coming up", but you'll find that some instructors put a lot of emphasis on them while others put very little.


Side note: I had a course that had one section that was just given the date of the exam and topics covered (kinda the norm). One that had the questions read aloud to them the class before the exam, and another that had the questions read and then the class answered them out loud during the class before the exam. The instructor was doing research and was conducting an experiment with the classes. We were told about it at the end of the semester.


Also, answering fewer questions can be riskier. If you choose 2 that you think you know very well, but are wrong or the teacher doesn't see eye to eye with you, you screw your entire exam by screwing up one of them.

12/16/2009 11:56:29 PM

Namwob...
You just called someone a fuckin noob I believe that earns the term...DOUCHE. Secondly, your analogy both sucked and was off basis. Overall, shitty post. Congrads good sir.

12/17/2009 4:42:00 AM

Doesn't everyone in the honor's section get an A anyways? At least that's how it was when I was in school.

12/18/2009 8:01:12 AM

Welcome to The Wolf Web. By admitting your major anywhere on the site, it becomes a valid way to ignore anything you say and make fun of you.

To the OP, yes, this happens all the time. No, there is no real reason for it, save the teachers' whims in non-standardized courses. But, you can't complete all your General Education courses in standardized stuff, so just be prepared to research which teachers give the best classes for you; either the easiest, or the most-in-line with your learning style. And, honestly, it never hurts to suck up to the teacher.

12/18/2009 8:56:32 AM

apparently if you are graDuating, you get "congraDulated".

12/18/2009 6:03:38 PM

I have no idea why everyone is flipping you shit here. You didn't come off whiny or anything.... just asked a legitimate question. Here's a story from my senior year.

The truth is yes, you can always get your grade changed. I did once and probably should have another time. The time where I did get it changed was my senior design project. I was 25, married, and lived about 30 minutes away. I was active duty in the Navy and my wife was in and out of the hospital several times throughout the semester. There were two other people in my exact situation (being married/active duty/living far away). Anyway, I was assigned to a group of 21 year old college students who lived on/near campus for the entirety of the semester, despite the fact that it would have made sense to allow the three of us Navy people to work together since we had similar schedules and similar committments.

The people I worked with always wanted to meet at weird hours, usually late at night. This was easy for them since they all lived very close to DH Hill, but was of course problematic for me, so I asked if I could do things that didn't require me to be at the meetings, which they "said" they were fine with. So while they put a large chunk of the report together, I modeled our project in Solidworks and then cut the whole thing out with a Drehmel tool (it was a Catepillar roll cage so this took an extraordinary amount of time.) Additionally I used my truck to do all the moving and legwork. I know for a fact I put in more time and effort on the project than anyone in the group, but I certainly did not have a huge role in the actual write-up (other than the Solidworks portion).

At the end of the semester our projects were judged and ours came in second in the class. I expected a good grade and I was pretty shocked to se a C on my grade report. Ironically, the other two Navy guys in my class also got C's. I went to the professor, and I saw his grade sheet on the table. Us three had gotten the lowest grades in the class, and additionally, the other members of my group had gotten A's. He informed us that in the group critique sheets, our groups had said that we did not put as much effort into the project as they had. I cannot speak for the other two Navy guys, but I know the amount of effort I had put in. I know one dude in my group specifically wrote "Jim did not show as much enthusiasm for the project as other group members." I was livid because this was not true at all. We had agreed upon what my role was, and nobody had any problem with it then.

I was so mad at the professor and my group at that point. I am gonna go ahead and say there was some kind of predjudice towards us all, because we all wore our uniforms every Tues/Thurs and he knew we were military. It was no coincidence that the three of us received the lowest grades in the class. I had a 3.9ish GPA, so it's not like I routinely or ever got bad grades. As a matter of fact, the only other C I ever got was from him a year before. Anyway I told him very bluntly that he could either change my grade or I would file a complaint against him with the dean. He said he would consider it and 2 days later we all had B's instead of C's. Now I know personally I deserved an A, but I had a lot going on and I was willing to compromise, so I let it drop.

Moral of the story, if you feel it's worth it, you can fight and win (you may not always win). My own personal advice in this situation is to back off. I don't know what you got on your final, but I am guessing just from basic math and typical breakdowns the final was 25%-ish of your overall grade, so you are really fighting for a B+ instead of a B. Unless I am missing something in the big scheme, this probably won't affect you at all either way. Like I said, you can win, but you have to pick your battles. I said there were two times my grade should have been changed, but I only fought one. The other was between an A+ and an A, and although I 100% deserved the A+, some battles just aren't worth it.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

12/19/2009 6:36:28 AM

wish for an A in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

12/19/2009 11:08:04 AM

1) be happy with your B

2) get shitfaced over the holidays

3) profit

12/19/2009 12:12:23 PM

Quote :

"wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first."

I see what you did there

[Edited on December 19, 2009 at 8:29 PM. Reason : fail]

12/19/2009 8:28:52 PM

Quote :

"I was livid because this was not true at all. "

Quote :

"I was willing to compromise, so I let it drop."

Way to stand strong

12/20/2009 4:24:38 PM

Why don't you try dealing with a wife who is in and out of the hospital, coordinating a big graduation party with multiple out of state guests, while simulataneously organizing a 3,000 mile cross country move you ignorant fuck? My guess is you probably couldn't...... as a matter of fact I stand in amazement that you actually manage to tie your shoes everyday.

Yes, I deserved an A, but in truth all I wanted was to not have a C sitting there as my final Mechanical Engineering grade ever in case a future employer was to look at that. Getting a B accomplished that purpose. Regardless of the grade I received, I was not going to graduate as the valedictorian nor was I going to lose Summa Cum-Laude, so I accomplished what I wanted to.

Ernie you are a worthless troll who contributes absolutely nothing to any thread. I could only wish that you could confine your ignorance to Chit Chat. Actually I wish you would just go out and get hit by a semi and die, but since I am all about compromising, I would be happy to accept you keeping your douchebaggotry in Chit Chat.

12/20/2009 6:07:24 PM

Sick burn, bro

12/20/2009 6:36:09 PM

BEAVERCHEESE ITT

12/20/2009 11:55:52 PM

I think this is a classic case of "in high school, they did it like this".


Happens all too much. It takes a harsh realization to find out that college is hard.

12/21/2009 11:12:41 PM

Quote :

"You just called someone a fuckin noob I believe that earns the term...DOUCHE"

LOLOLOLOL. I think this statement makes you the douche. You must be new to the Internet, noob. People get called noob all the time... because they're a noob.... .... yeh.

Quote :

"Ernie you are a worthless troll who contributes absolutely nothing to any thread. "

I concur

12/22/2009 8:42:00 AM

u guys mad?

12/23/2009 7:53:27 PM

find the guy who wrote "abuse of power at NC State" he can show you how to challenge the system and fail horribly

12/23/2009 10:16:12 PM

Half of the replies in this thread amount to nothing more than "welcome to college. sometimes, faculty members do things that are blatantly unfair," as if that's something that should be accepted. Maybe if universities viewed students as paying customers, rather than pieces of trash that are lucky enough to pay thousands of dollars a year to obtain "knowledge," we'd have more degrees that were actual useful when trying to find a job.

12/24/2009 3:00:21 PM

^ i don't think that's the case at all. The real issue is the OP not understanding what is within the power of the professor. Whether it is viewed as "blatantly unfair" or not by him or you, she does not have to give each section the exact same exam. Which is fine, like he said, it's his first semester.

If he has a problem with it, he should talk to her about it. If she doesn't see it his way, he can go to the department head and so on. I wish him all the luck. But she is definitely allowed to do what she did. And it's not necessarily unfair. We do not know her exact reasoning for doing things this way.

Does the OP know that after the second exam she didn't decide to take the two best answers on the exams in his section? Maybe she didn't, maybe she did.

He asked if he had a legitimate case to complain. Personally, I think he has the right to complain. I don't think it's very legitimate case though because there is no rule that requires an instructor to teach each section of a course exactly the same.

Quote :

"Maybe if universities viewed students as paying customers, rather than pieces of trash that are lucky enough to pay thousands of dollars a year to obtain "knowledge," we'd have more degrees that were actual useful when trying to find a job."

Wow, there is a huge leap from your IF to your THEN. Would you clarify what you're saying there? I'm interested, but don't want to make too many assumptions.

1) what is a (paraphrasing here) degree that is actually useful when trying to find a job? Are you referring to specific majors? Or are you saying that degrees are somehow diluted and not worth what they could be. If that's the case, what exactly is the problem/how could they be better?

2) How does that get back to universities treating students like trash? And how do they treat students like trash?

3) your claim seems to suggest that many universities do this thing you claim they do, yet people DO pay to attend them (including you). So, that makes me wonder if the problem is universities and how they operate or if maybe people just don't realize what a university is intended for and are paying for something that isn't quite what they want/wanted. If that's the case, Should the universities suddenly change to meet the model you think they should follow? Or does it make more sense for you and those who feel the same way to say "OK, college isn't exactly what I thought it was" and accept that fact?

12/24/2009 10:59:31 PM

Quote :

"what is a (paraphrasing here) degree that is actually useful when trying to find a job? Are you referring to specific majors? Or are you saying that degrees are somehow diluted and not worth what they could be. If that's the case, what exactly is the problem/how could they be better?"

It's not only the quality of the education but the content. I believe most CHASS degrees will end up being worthless to people graduating into this economy, and I'm not certain that they will become much better in the future. I think the majors that actually teach you how to succeed in some kind of useful profession are good, but many majors do not do that, and don't really prepare you for anything except more school. That's more of a tangent, though.

My real problem is that professors don't seem to be working for the students, a lot of the time, even though the student is the one paying the university. This is not the only instance where students in different sections were treated unfairly. If the OP had only chosen a different section, he might have ended up with a substantially better grade. Many professors act as if they're nobility or something and seem to put very little effort into putting together decent lesson plans. Sometimes they don't even bother changing assignments from year to year. Some of the classes I took definitely weren't worth the money, and the only reason people put up with it is because anyone can get a student loan and they expect the piece of paper they receive upon graduation to be a worthwhile investment. So, the main point is that I don't think all professors are providing the kind of quality instruction and equal treatment that you would expect to get when you're forking over a substantial amount of cash.

Quote :

"How does that get back to universities treating students like trash? And how do they treat students like trash?"

That may have been an exaggeration on my part, but like I said in the last bit, not all professors are providing the level of service that we should expect, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that graduated from NCSU that didn't have at least a couple professors who didn't meet expectations. That isn't to say that NCSU doesn't have some excellent professors; I had quite a few of them. The bad ones bring down the value of the degree, though.

Quote :

"your claim seems to suggest that many universities do this thing you claim they do, yet people DO pay to attend them (including you). So, that makes me wonder if the problem is universities and how they operate or if maybe people just don't realize what a university is intended for and are paying for something that isn't quite what they want/wanted. If that's the case, Should the universities suddenly change to meet the model you think they should follow? Or does it make more sense for you and those who feel the same way to say "OK, college isn't exactly what I thought it was" and accept that fact?"

You're completely right, here. A lot of people just go to college "to go" because it's what people do when they finish high school. They don't know what profession they want to go into and just see their major as "what they're interested in." I'm probably guilty of that. I touched on this earlier, but I think the only reason that it is this way is because it's so easy to get a student loan. Not going to get too TSB here, but when you have all these government backed loans that end up being at a 2% fixed rate, a lot of people that wouldn't normally go to college go to college. Now, the university has no incentive to increase efficiency, lower or maintain tuition, or get rid of bad professors, because they know that these students are going to pay any price, since they're pretty much getting the loans for free, or it's paid for by parents. I think what you get is less concern on the part of the university to provide a quality education, with more emphasis on pumping out as many graduates as possible, and I believe the overall value of a degree suffers as a result. A B.A. is basically the new high school diploma.

12/25/2009 12:37:13 AM

agreed on most fronts. I do think some CHASS majors can transfer into certain careers very smoothly. And I disagree in that I feel there is a place, and an important one at that, for general education. The general education system at NCSU sucks though. I know they made some changes to try to fix the differences between colleges/departments, but I'm not sure it's where it should be for the most convenience to students.

I feel that I mostly had good instructors at NCSU. I had a few who were great, and a few who were horrible. As a paying student, I made a point to make this clear on course reviews though. Unfortunately, it seemed that a lot of my peers didn't bother to fill out course/instructor reviews, or at least not seriously. This is a large part of how departments assess "customer satisfaction." I do wish there were more pressure on the instructors to provide a better educational experience, but if students don't complain, departments either don't know or don't care about the problem.

I know that sort of contributes to the "that's how it is, deal with it" mentality. But to be honest, I haven't seen many situations in life that are any different. There are things which are just bigger than us as individuals. Yes, you can talk to people, write letters, make phone calls, maybe even have a peaceful gathering, or even a violent one if you'd like. But at the end of the day, we don't make the rules or policies. Personally, I realized a long time ago that there are some things that will actually change as a result of my actions, and some that would just be a waste of my time and energy. Unless someone wants to start a major uproar, this isn't changing. And even then, it wouldn't be instantly.

That being said, I'll gladly get on board a letter writing campaign to entice departments to hold instructors more accountable and to even point out specific instructors. But unless others are going to get involved, I have things to do that may actually make a dent.


From an educational standpoint, there are legitimate reasons for approaching two sections differently. If certain methods result in better retention for one section than the other, it makes sense to use those methods for that section. That will typically result in more work for the instructor, but a better learning outcome for all students. I'm not suggesting that in all cases this is what's going on, but I've been in courses where the instructors were very open about what they were doing with each section and why. And as I stated earlier, I've been in courses where the instructor was conducting research and approaching each section of a course slightly different in doing so.

Faculty in ALL departments conduct education research. And it's important that they do so. I support that all day, every day.

12/25/2009 10:27:12 AM

holy shit this blew up


oh, and drop the honors program. it is fucking pointless

12/26/2009 3:06:20 AM

ass up

face down

thats the way we like to fuck

12/26/2009 12:56:19 PM

Quote :

"My real problem is that professors don't seem to be working for the students, a lot of the time, even though the student is the one paying the university."

If you take a look at how professors, their research, and their salaries are funded, you'd realize that tuition from students has almost no direct impact on their ability to do their jobs. Most of the research and salary costs for professors and their lab group come from grants both in the form of indirect cost returns from overhead and directly grant funding.

The sad state of things is that teaching is a secondary concern for both professors and their departments. In the process by which faculty are reviewed for tenure and promotions, teaching usually counts for 10% or less of their overall rating. Afterall, mediocre teachers have the same impact on tuition-based revenue as excellent teachers.

Unfortunately, this isn't going to change unless the way college departments is changed. If you generate enough grant overhead dollars, department heads will not only excuse poor teaching, they'll cover up criminal abuses of students (this happens more than you'd want to believe).

12/26/2009 3:26:27 PM