Hello,

Im lookign on spending some money for some performance mods. Now i konw i dont have the money for a real superchager, or turbo, but I'm Considering one of them eletric models.

You guys have any advice on how to set it up, or which ones are the best. Im not trying to spend too much money but could use the extra power.

12/22/2009 9:45:37 AM

make sure you get it on ebay

12/22/2009 9:50:17 AM

the easiest way to tell which is best is to find one that is compatible with honda civics. these models typically generate the most power because of the high HP nature of the engines they tend to be mated with. once you've found a few models compatible with civics you will need to find the one that claims the largest gains. the companies manufacturing these parts are subject to strict regulation which should help give you peace of mind. if you are lucky, you can find a vendor that will include an underhood speaker system that sounds like a BOV, if not, you should at least be able to get a few type R stickers or JDM blinker fluid out of the deal. please let me know if you have any questions as i have a lot of experience beating people so bad it doesn't even look like they were racing.

thanks and good luck!

12/22/2009 9:58:07 AM

I dont know if im going to necessarily buy one of the shelf. I was thinkign about trying ot make one. Possilby using liek a wheelchair motor and a regular supercharger or turbo.

12/22/2009 9:58:39 AM

Okay,

So if i can source a 8hp eletric motor, then combine that with a cheaper blower, or a centrifical blower, i can probalby get some boost, with the right gearing.

I think i know where i can get some used 4-8hp motors, i know they are 24v, and i think i could overdrive them to 36v. obviously this will mean extra batteries.

Over volted like this i dont know how long i could run it (perhaps enough airflow though the engine to keep it cool) in any case, I think i could run them for at least a few minutes.

12/22/2009 10:23:38 AM

Just get a motor out of a leaf blower and rig it to the intake.

12/22/2009 11:03:51 AM

I dont see how that would work.

I mean as far as i understand your not going to be able to compress the air with a leaf blower type design.

The only way i can think to do it so far, (ive dismissed most of the letrics ive come across, is to drive a supercharger connected to a custom air box (possilby moodified intercooler). or preferably a centrifigal supercharger.

Alot of them seem to have the gearing i need.

The motors ive found seem to run at 4k rpm, im not sure what levels of boos that will give, and ill ahve to play with gearing.

I havent taken any thermo, so im unsure what kinda temps and pressures will be seen on the intake side, esp with a larger capacity engine.

12/22/2009 11:11:59 AM

If air is moving, there is pressure.

Does boost interfere with vacuum driven accessories in the car? How does electric end up cheaper than a belt-driven supercharger?

12/22/2009 12:20:02 PM

dubcaps and I are well equipped to handle any of your speaker BOV needs. Let us know what blowtone you want (type S, RFL, synchronic, etc..) when you place your order.

12/22/2009 12:42:54 PM

The ability to move air does not necessarily mean the ability to make much pressure. The amount of pressure any sort of fluid pump can make is dependent on its design.

I was looking at backwards fin squirrel cage fans as well. I'm not sure how much air the engine needs though.

Somebody else suggested getting an mr2 supercharger, or a eaton off a 3800, both seem to be about 200 used. IM not sure about oil ecetra, but i think i could make a custom air box for it then run it off the motor, either by belt (geared) or direct drive.

Does anyone konw if orientation matters with a supercharger, i woudlnt think so, but wonder about the oiling system.

[Edited on December 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM. Reason : 2k!=200]

12/22/2009 1:39:50 PM

Anyone know airflow specs per rotation on the eaton m90?

Right now im doing math for the m62, but i don't know if it will be big enough without some crazy pully ratio, or what speed they will handle?

right now my ratio is 4:1, which seems high and probably impossible.

12/22/2009 2:09:36 PM

guesstimate with 1lb/min = 10hp

12/22/2009 4:38:36 PM

What role will engine displacement play into that?

12/22/2009 7:37:36 PM

this will surely work

12/22/2009 8:35:10 PM

"The power is in the head(s) son."

I (and everyone else) are convinced you are trying to humor us.

12/22/2009 8:45:04 PM

oh shit, I think he is serious

12/22/2009 8:47:46 PM

Quote :

"DANGER TO MANIFOLD"

12/22/2009 9:30:15 PM

I dont think ill get more than 1 or 2 psi in any configuration based on what im planning to work with, but i figure $10 for 1 hp isnt that bad of a ratio, and ill learn a little about fi.

12/23/2009 7:46:35 AM

Can anyone get me the spec sheet on a m90

12/23/2009 10:52:17 AM

http://m90.org/

12/23/2009 10:53:01 AM

OKay

Based ont his map, and the motor turning at 4000 *3 I should be moving enough air.

at least i think



Im really trying to avoid getting a speed controller.

My current plan is to make some kinda air bypass (or use the built in one controleld off the vacuum), and only have the electric kick in on WOT.

This way it saves the batteries and hopefully wont burn out the motor.

Im considering moutning the motor in the airbox, but im still unsure of sizing. its a big unit.

With the power needed im looking at 3 batteries, and they are going to have to be relocated to the trunk.

I also have to figure out a way to charge them in parallel and then run them in series when I go WOT. Does anyone know a device to do that?







[Edited on December 23, 2009 at 11:26 AM. Reason : dd]

12/23/2009 11:12:05 AM

My target is 400 hp, so Ill need around 1000 m^3/hr of airflow. So this should flow what i need.

[Edited on December 23, 2009 at 11:45 AM. Reason : ff]

12/23/2009 11:42:13 AM

If you are actually serious about this( which I hope you are not), then have you actually looked at these "4-8 hp" motors you are going to get. Because they are going to be a lot bigger then what you think. You gotta think, most golf carts aren't but 3-4 hp. Those motors aren't cheap by any means(anywhere from $200-1500.) And the amperage they are going to require is high! You are better off getting a used vortech or paxton and starting from there.

12/23/2009 9:37:00 PM

Maybe he's doing this for a self educating adventure to see if he can make it work and how?

Props to AntecK7 if he actually does this and it all works out. You won't find me ever doing something like this irl, although the thought has crossed my mind. It'd be cool to learn about something like this through someone else's time and money Props to you if you are serious.

12/23/2009 10:58:53 PM

what kind of car is this for?

12/24/2009 1:10:55 AM

Anteck,

please save your time, money & face and dont pursue this weak idea. If this is some master attempt at trolling the garage, then fuck you.

1.) you're not going to get any benefit from a positive displacement blower if you are going to try to operate it with an electric motor, unless the motor runs all the time. see #2. might as well run it the conventional method.

2.) do you realize the physical size of the motor necessary to effectively operate the blower? not to mention the power consumption and logistics of batteries/generators (parasitic draw) as well.

3.) I dont think you understand the cost of the items associated with all of this retardedness.

4.) This does not constitute a "dare to be different" project/idea. nope. never.




*starts beatboxing*

12/24/2009 8:31:12 AM

12/24/2009 10:27:20 AM

just because you can doesn't mean you should.


also, anyone care to enlighten tww about sucking through a positive displacement blower when it's not activated (like the suggested setup?)

[Edited on December 24, 2009 at 10:32 AM. Reason : *starts beatboxing*]

12/24/2009 10:32:16 AM

Im going to have to figure out a way to bypass the supercharger during normal operation. The motors I intend to use will be used. I think my primary concern is weight right now wih batteries and all ill probably be adding about 100 to 200 pounds. Right now I'm plannin on building it on a cart hen worrying about integration. The most boos I really hunk ill make will be 1 to 2 psi so HP output wont be that exceptional.

Again I'm only shooting for 400hp

12/24/2009 11:49:09 AM

there are reasons this isn't done.

if you do attempt it i wish you luck but i'm picturing a bigger fireball than maxima driver's.

if you want a laundry list of reasons this is a bad/dumb/dangerous idea let me know and i'd be happy to waste my time stating the obvious.

12/28/2009 11:30:27 PM

Right now im just trying to verify that the motors can properly turn the blower, and making a system of gears and tensioners to ensure that it wont throw a belt.

Right now the motor is integrated into the fabbed up airbox, but im not sure if the MDF will hold the pressure (even with the reinforcments) Obviously to put into a car ill need a welded setup, but for now im hoping mdf can hold.

Charging of the batteries is so far a no go.

Is the stock computer on most new cars runs mass air right? so it should be able to handle at least 1psi, and ill work from there.

12/30/2009 2:39:58 PM

^^In my defense, the fireball was due to bad injectors, not the TT setup.

12/30/2009 2:48:01 PM

not gonna lie.. you probably would have burnt yourself on the glowing red turbines.... that were inside the car.... or died of CO poisoning or something... the flaming hood was probably a lucky event.

12/30/2009 11:15:48 PM

I heard if you buy some GREDDY stickers, purchase a 3 foot high spoiler, and one of those loud exhausts you always see on those mexicanized civics; that you can add 50% horsepower INSTANTLY!!!

As an added bonus take a pound of sugar and dump it into your gas tank. As the fuel for humans who knows how much power it can add when mixed with gasoline

Good Luck...

12/30/2009 11:22:06 PM

garage thread of the year!

1/3/2010 9:05:06 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrDe1md6AWg

[/thread]

1/3/2010 10:20:15 PM

What would last longer, an eBay nitrous oxide injection system or 2 deep cycle batteries under 4 HP load?

4 HP mechanical ~ 3kW at .85 efficiency would be near 3.5 kW electric. 3.5 kW at 24V would drain 145A. These numbers don't really mean anything without the efficiency of the motor used and I just threw 85% out there as a guess.

1/3/2010 10:30:54 PM

last longer how? duration of any extra power? it would entirely depend on the jetting of the nitrous system.

1/3/2010 10:53:04 PM

Well, duration of the boost and then long-term reliability. I don't think those batteries would like being drained damn near dead time after time.

1/3/2010 10:55:25 PM

Thinking out loud here, but couldn't diodes be used to charge the batteries in parallel, but provide power in series? It wouldn't be cheap though to get diodes that can withstand the current.

1/3/2010 11:05:46 PM

1/3/2010 11:31:15 PM

You can use FETs to select between charging mode or power output usage. Otherwise a charge pump could be used, but would probably be difficult.

1/3/2010 11:48:41 PM

charge pump, lol.

This is the best troll thread in garage history!

1/4/2010 12:49:17 AM

Carge pump wont work not enough current.

Anyway here is my diagram

I need 3 12v 100amp SPDT realsy and 2 12 volt 10 amp SPDT relays

Any advice on where to find these will be apprciated

1/4/2010 11:28:50 AM

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=Z1616-ND

1/4/2010 12:53:53 PM

Anyone who can find them for < $50

1/4/2010 12:59:44 PM

http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/Stancor/124-910/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtSzCF3XBhmW1unbvAnCJgIIQso0WptNCs%3d

1/4/2010 1:18:35 PM

Hell yes.

Im still considering using the standard 30/40 amp bosh relays and setting them up in parallel. It will be triple the number of power relays and complicate the circuit, however it will mean parts will be locally replaceable.

Obviously ill need some diodes on the relay control, and some sort of system to properly mount and wire the relays.

I Plan on having the system automatically activate on WOT, does anyone know how to sense WOT from a car? Will it require hacking into the odbc system or is there another way? i was thinking about hooking up some kinda contract but im not sure yet.

1/4/2010 1:27:22 PM

Set a limit switch on your throttle to pickup a control relay which will drive all the coils for the other relays. You wouldn't need diodes for the electromechanical solution.

1/4/2010 1:35:20 PM

I was thinking Diodes on the Coil side of the relays, to supress the high voltage spike when they turn off.

Yea, i guess i can use the pedal, the vehicle dosnt have a traditional cable throttle control.

1/4/2010 1:59:04 PM