He contributes nothing but shit to the Soap box.

1/11/2010 4:18:13 PM

bold

Quote :

"quote"

link

1/11/2010 4:27:55 PM

1/11/2010 4:32:16 PM

wow

cant say i've seen that one before

1/11/2010 4:33:31 PM

Sounds like hooksaw is winning in the soap box. Get em boy!

1/11/2010 4:35:11 PM

you're just mad because he doesn't agree with your leftist ideology.

oh yeh...

Quote :

"Serously ban Hooksaw"

[Edited on January 11, 2010 at 6:50 PM. Reason : .]

1/11/2010 6:43:00 PM

Show me one coherent response that he's made that isn't a copy/pasted article.

One.

1/11/2010 6:57:43 PM

i bet you want him banned because he doesn't like Obama.

1/11/2010 7:20:22 PM

No otherwise I'd ask for theDuke866 to ban himself.

Plus I don't much care for Obama either.

1/11/2010 7:41:32 PM

assuming he's not sailsburyboy or some mental incarnation

I wish he would do something really fucking stupid like him

to force his banning

I fucking hate that guy

...

I don't think they're the same guy really.

but their really seems to be a highlander thing about super crazy nutjob conservatives

[Edited on January 11, 2010 at 8:53 PM. Reason : .]

1/11/2010 8:50:44 PM

I think it would be a fair trade if both boone and hooksaw got banned

they seem to be about the same amount of crazy on opposite sides of the political spectrum

1/11/2010 9:30:42 PM

come on guys, give the old man a break

if he's not retired now, he's damn close to it

old dude just needs something to do with his days...and for some reason, decided to come here.

1/12/2010 9:23:31 AM

Here's a sampling of some of God's "illuminating" TSB threads--none of which exceeded four pages of discussion, BTW, because no one really gives a shit about his suck-ass threads:

GOP: "We hate fags more than we support troops."

message_topic.aspx?topic=578542

GOP: We defend the right for workers to gang rape

message_topic.aspx?topic=578986

[Edited on January 12, 2010 at 1:09 PM. Reason : I now invite my detractors to kindly piss off.]

1/12/2010 1:08:54 PM

I realize this thread is about those who have started their own move to ban Hooksaw.... which I have not. Hear me out, maybe I can offer some insight.

I am in outside sales, which is currently salary+commission, but will move into straight commission starting at the beginning of July 2010. I have been in this position since July 2009. I have competition from several direct manufacturing sales reps, large distributors, and local distributors. Here are the advantages and disadvantages of each:

Direct Advantages: Immediate knowledge of new technology, no middle man mark up, one shipping bill (paid by manufacturer or buyer of goods), access to larger range of non-commodity items, control inventory, have access to many distributors that can effectively sell their goods which increases market share, and set prices of commodity they manufacture.

Direct disadvantages: Typically have 1-3 sales reps per region (i.e. southeast, mid-atlantic, northeast, etc.) limiting the number of accounts they can successfully manage/cold-call, lack physical customer service or physical technical service available to or affordable for smaller users or altogether, are sometimes not trustworthy because they will go in behind their distributors that sell their commodity to one account in large quantities (i.e. they missed a big account, and have found out about it through a distributor selling their particular product) which leads to the distributor not selling their product anymore, have too many distributors selling the product ultimately driving the set price down through deviations, possibly rely on distributors to actually sell the product, and competition from other direct sources.

Large distributor advantages: have access to other commodities that go hand in hand with other manufacturers (poor example- grocery stores sell milk as well as cereal), get direct pricing, many locations regionally or nationally easing the shipping burden of buyers with multiple locations, personal service either customer or technical, many sales reps that are able to cover a broader territory, access to multiple manufacturers of the same commodity allowing to keep prices in check, service programs that smaller companies can't offer and direct providers can't match in price or value, and experts of many many commodities as opposed to one or a few.

Large distributor disadvantages: smaller local distributors creating price wars (think Michael Scott Paper Co vs Dunder-Mifflin), direct mfg's going in behind and stealing business, limited access to all of the mfg's (you won't find Harris Teeter name brands in Food Lion and visa versa), can't truly set prices because it's based on both supply and demand, territory management, and tough growth prospects in slower economies (this is true for direct as well really)

Local distributor advantages: Typically a good ol' boy setting where the seller and the buyer know each other for years (this does happen at all levels, but mostly at the local level), local folks are right down the street and can be used in emergencies, if the local guy buys at high enough volumes then there is no shipping charge to the end user, and access to both direct mfg's and large distributors.

Local distributor disadvantages: easily beaten in price, array of commodities, array of technology, lack of trained staff, low cash flow, etc etc etc.

This is what I have noticed in my six months, I am sure there are plenty more that need mentioning. The way I am setting myself apart as a sales person is this: I go after the big accounts right now while I am new. The big accounts, if I land them, will take care of me while I am new and building a customer base. The money made off of those allows me to focus free time on smaller accounts that get me higher margins. I build up big accounts, I would like to have 5-10 of these, then get 20-30 medium accounts. If I lose 1 or 2 big accounts, the 20-30 medium accounts keep me afloat while I go after new big accounts. I don't really waste time on small accounts simply because they basically pay for breakfast or something really small.

I will say this, if you can't get a big account in the first 6-8 months (assuming you have cash flow that you can ride this long) you could be in a world of trouble. If you can get one, it will really make going after the others a lot more enjoyable and less stressful. It's simply just very exhausting wasting any time on anything other than big accounts in the very beginning. You work just as hard on the medium sized accounts and see 1/3 to 1/36 of the money in my situation.

If you have any other questions, you can PM me. I hope this helps in the slightest!

1/12/2010 2:38:30 PM

well that definitely settles this thread.

1/12/2010 2:45:30 PM

^^ Yo, holmes, to Bel Air!

1/12/2010 2:47:41 PM

I have yet to agree on anything hooksaw says but I, for one, don't want to see him banned. He actually brings another view to the table, which after all is what the soapbox is all about.

1/12/2010 4:16:35 PM

1/12/2010 6:32:46 PM

My deal is still on the table. Ban both boone and hooksaw. This is an acceptable compromise.

1/12/2010 9:22:48 PM

Quote :

"I have yet to agree on anything hooksaw says but I, for one, don't want to see him banned. He actually brings another view to the table, which after all is what the soapbox is all about."

that's all well and good and encouraged in TSB as you say, but when his view is challenged he regularly refuses to partake in any type of debate, reverts to sophomoric name-calling, quote-bombs, and just generally acts like a douchey spoiled little kid.

that being said, i don't think he should be suspended, but TSB would be a lot better off if he'd quit acting like a douche.

1/12/2010 10:04:23 PM

^but isn't that how the vast majority of users behave on TWW in any section? Take a look at the garage, tech talk, sometimes the lounge. (of course chit chat but that doesn't count here). Its just the nature of posting on a message board vs. having the same discussion with the same people IRL.

Plus its entertaining to see what creative names some of these users come up with

I would agree on the name calling is a bit much, not just hooksaw but any user. Quote bombs is fine though if thats how he wants to defend his point of view.

1/12/2010 10:15:51 PM

^In TSB people at least generally attempt to address arguments made against them, message board or no.

What hooksaw is doing more and more lately is spamming a quote of himself in reply to everything said against him... even if that self-quote is entirely irrelevant to the other person's argument. If this fails (which it always does), he goes back to his typical fare of name-calling (he has no idea what a troll actually is, but throws the term around constantly) and rolly-eyes, or just posts a semi-related news article, demands that everyone begin discussing that instead, and tries to pretend the past bunch of posts didn't happen.

Some of his little habits are acceptable, if stupid, like his propensity to use a news article quote-bomb to say anything he might want to say, instead of actually posting a semi-original thought in his own words (because then he could actually be held accountable for something he says, and he certainly doesn't want that)... and his love of spelling and grammar correction (which it seems he has actually been trying to hold off on, compared to his older posts... so that's one credit to the guy). Even the "post a non-sequitur article and hope that everyone forgets that I just acted like a child" strategy, while idiotic, isn't particularly suspend-worthy.


The problem is mainly that, in a forum intended for actual debate, he refuses to actually participate in the debate... but he continues to post in it continuously, thus simply spamming and derailing almost every thread he is a part of. He's having a net negative effect on the forum. In suspending him, we'd lose the occasional article that we might not have seen before, but we gain a TSB free of hooksaw-based distractions and derailing and raw spam.

1/12/2010 11:34:21 PM

Quote :

". . .but he continues to post in it continuously [sic]. . . ."

You should have used "continually."

1/13/2010 2:53:24 AM

^^ sorry but [no]

The Soap Box is a cesspool. Interesting and legitimate debate threads are a rarity but hooksaw is not the reason for this. There are a plethora of other users who exhibit the same behavior that he does, but they fall more in line with the political stance of the majority thus you don't see dozens of 'ban xxx' threads for the same reason.

What Soap Box really is, is a location for the majority of its users to come circle jerk each other while fooling themselves into believing they are having actual discussion/debate.

1/13/2010 10:22:33 AM

^ fucking nailed it

1/13/2010 10:47:46 AM

sounds like a circle-jerk in here

1/13/2010 11:46:43 AM

Quote :

"What hooksaw is doing more and more lately is spamming a quote of himself in reply to everything said against him... even if that self-quote is entirely irrelevant to the other person's argument. If this fails (which it always does), he goes back to his typical fare of name-calling (he has no idea what a troll actually is, but throws the term around constantly) and rolly-eyes, or just posts a semi-related news article, demands that everyone begin discussing that instead, and tries to pretend the past bunch of posts didn't happen. Some of his little habits are acceptable, if stupid, like his propensity to use a news article quote-bomb to say anything he might want to say, instead of actually posting a semi-original thought in his own word The problem is mainly that, in a forum intended for actual debate, he refuses to actually participate in the debate... but he continues to post in it continuously, thus simply spamming and derailing almost every thread he is a part of. He's having a net negative effect on the forum"

While all of that is very true, what Lokken said is right on. It's unfortunately the case that the SB sucks so much, that childish behavior like old man Hooksaw's has always been, and will continue to be commonplace. While his behavior is somewhat worse than most, it doesn't appear to be anything particularly suspendable at this time, especially given that there are a number of users on the same childish level as him.


History, B. message_search.aspx?type=topic§ion=1§ion=9§ion=15§ion=4§ion=10&searchstring=hooksaw

1/13/2010 1:21:26 PM

AT

THIS

TIME

1/13/2010 3:32:41 PM

Quote :

"I think it would be a fair trade if both boone and hooksaw got banned they seem to be about the same amount of crazy on opposite sides of the political spectrum"

Now that's straight-up libel.

1/13/2010 7:20:12 PM

I am actually a moderate. My views only seem extreme in relation to the nest of far-left loons who frequently flap and foam around TSB.

1/13/2010 7:24:44 PM

Quote :

"There are a plethora of other users who exhibit the same behavior that he does, but they fall more in line with the political stance of the majority thus you don't see dozens of 'ban xxx' threads for the same reason."

If this site were run by a competent staff of adults, any user who exhibited behavior like hooksaw would be gone. How about instead of justifying his existence by saying its already a cesspool, the mods actually MODERATE and clean the place up?

Since that probably won't happen, consider that the majority of the user base hates and disrespects him (for reasons broad and deep) and he the user base. Isn't that enough to ban him? Why does there need to some legally sound reason?

1/13/2010 8:11:06 PM

this thread is awesome

1/13/2010 10:30:23 PM

page 8 of the KSM thread is rich, and it's typical of his other threads.

there were once strict posting restrictions placed on salisburyboy. i can't remember the terms, but they really quelled his insanity in TSB. Perhaps it's time to institute some posting guidelines for hooksaw that could hopefully help to tone down his BULLSHIT.

1/14/2010 12:00:14 AM

to be fair, I'm not sure how much BULLSHIT he actually commits

it's just that his method of argument is so fucking myopic and asinine that I kind of wish he would just fucking die

1/14/2010 3:48:07 AM

^^ You must not have been around when salisburyboy was posting in his prime. He would start about 5 threads a day talking about Edomites and every post he made in other people's threads was about 500KB in length and ALWAYS blamed the zionists for whatever the thread was about.

The simple truth is that you disagree with hooksaw's opinions. He is doing nothing similar to what Salisburyboy did. I'll be goddamned if TWW starts censoring people based on political ideology.

Also,

Quote :

" The Soap Box is a cesspool. Interesting and legitimate debate threads are a rarity but hooksaw is not the reason for this. There are a plethora of other users who exhibit the same behavior that he does, but they fall more in line with the political stance of the majority thus you don't see dozens of 'ban xxx' threads for the same reason. What Soap Box really is, is a location for the majority of its users to come circle jerk each other while fooling themselves into believing they are having actual discussion/debate."

That is spot on. gg Lokken - should be granted mod status for this... he's proven he has the TWW wisdom.


[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 7:33 AM. Reason : s]

1/14/2010 7:28:22 AM

Quote :

"The simple truth is that you disagree with hooksaw's opinions. He is doing nothing similar to what Salisburyboy did. I'll be goddamned if TWW starts censoring people based on political ideology."

yeah, I usually do. But as I already stated, I don't think he should be suspended or even censored, and certainly not for his politics. I just wish there was a way to get him to actually productively contribute to TSB without acting like a dickhole.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 8:21 AM. Reason : Z]

1/14/2010 8:20:40 AM

Quote :

"I'll be goddamned if TWW starts censoring people based on political ideology."

1/14/2010 9:35:19 AM

I don't think he should be suspended. You can debate him, but at some point he's going to be backed into a corner and he'll just ignore your points, start quoting himself, or post a bold/quote/one-liner/ . My favorite tactic is when you bring up a point, and he'll quote Obama (or some other elected official/person) and say "Well, Obama disagrees with you," as if that means something.

1/14/2010 9:55:30 AM

Quote :

"The simple truth is that you disagree with hooksaw's opinions. He is doing nothing similar to what Salisburyboy did. I'll be goddamned if TWW starts censoring people based on political ideology."

The complaints have nothing to do with his political ideology. it's his posting style...to use the word style loosely...that pisses people off.

Quote :

"but when his view is challenged he regularly refuses to partake in any type of debate, reverts to sophomoric name-calling, quote-bombs, and just generally acts like a douchey spoiled little kid. "

Quote :

"What hooksaw is doing more and more lately is spamming a quote of himself in reply to everything said against him... even if that self-quote is entirely irrelevant to the other person's argument. If this fails (which it always does), he goes back to his typical fare of name-calling (he has no idea what a troll actually is, but throws the term around constantly) and rolly-eyes, or just posts a semi-related news article, demands that everyone begin discussing that instead, and tries to pretend the past bunch of posts didn't happen."

Quote :

"he'll just ignore your points, start quoting himself, or post a bold/quote/one-liner/ . My favorite tactic is when you bring up a point, and he'll quote Obama (or some other elected official/person) and say "Well, Obama disagrees with you," as if that means something."

1/14/2010 12:27:51 PM

^ I agree that people are complaining about his style, but as Lokken eloquently pointed out, many other people employ the same methods but from the opposite political side and they are not complained about.

Therefore, science dictates that people's actual problems with hooksaw have to do with his political persuasion.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 1:09 PM. Reason : s]

1/14/2010 1:08:41 PM

His political ideology is a red herring that he uses to claim persecution. But that is just a minor part of why he is loathed around here as people have explained. If the mods actually kept up with what he posts on here they would know his ideology is not the issue.

^And it's bullshit that anyone compares to him from the other side. By the way, there are people on his side that resort to the same tactics and they aren't complained about either. Because they aren't nearly as bad.



[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 1:16 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2010 1:11:07 PM

I would also point out that this tactic:

Quote :

"What hooksaw is doing more and more lately is spamming a quote of himself in reply to everything said against him."

Is not necessarily wrong in and of itself. In fact, people on TWW will frequently twist and distort one's argument before responding to it. In that case, it can be effective and worthwhile to restate your original non-distorted argument for real discussion.

1/14/2010 1:14:12 PM

Quote :

"it can be effective and worthwhile"

Nothing posted on here is effective and worthwhile

1/14/2010 1:16:52 PM

well yea

1/14/2010 1:17:38 PM

If we can get hooksaw leashed it will be.

1/14/2010 1:21:39 PM

you really got a hardon for hooksaw dont ya carzak. you seem really hell-bent on this; i have to wonder why you care so much since this is an internet message board, afterall.

1/14/2010 2:02:36 PM

Quote :

"many other people employ the same methods but from the opposite political side and they are not complained about"

false

definitely not the in the VOLUME that he does. it's one thing to employ those childish tactics here and there selectively for effect. it's another if you're a high volume poster, and 95% of your posts is that BS.

Quote :

"And it's bullshit that anyone compares to him from the other side. By the way, there are people on his side that resort to the same tactics and they aren't complained about either. Because they aren't nearly as bad. "

1/14/2010 2:20:05 PM

love truly is blind.

1/14/2010 2:55:06 PM

a lot of girls in this thread.

1/14/2010 3:14:23 PM

A lot of posts ITT about the other side using the same tactics and a lot saying they don't. Doesn't logical debate say that anyone wishing to continue arguing that the other side is doing this needs to prove this in some way in order to continue arguing that point?

1/14/2010 3:29:15 PM