http://plannedpcnc.org/blog/2010/02/ppcnc/apex-takes-cue-from-stupak/

Quote :

"Apex takes cue from Stupak The Apex Town Council unanimously decided to eliminate insurance coverage for abortion from all town employees’ Blue Cross Blue Shield benefit plans. The change went into effect yesterday. If you’ve been paying attention to any discussion around Health Care Reform at the federal level recently (Change Fail post), you won’t be surprised to learn that media coverage and comments from public officials have made it painfully clear that this is about far more than what benefits are or are not in a particular health insurance plan. The politicization of women’s personal reproductive lives definitely didn’t stop with Stupak and now we have found it at our own back door. Media coverage of the issue thus far points very directly to the problems. WRAL’s sensationalized coverage could have you thinking the Apex employee’s health insurance plan was covering illegal drug use rather than a safe and legal medial procedure. Meanwhile, the story in the Cary News quotes Councilman Mike Jones saying very candidly that the underlying issue for him is the moral issue of abortion. (emphasis mine) I’m not sure at what point our society decided that it was okay for one elected official’s moral beliefs to be the deciding factor in what an entire group of people (*ahem* women) can or cannot have access to. What’s next? Fertility treatment? Birth control? How about (as Cary Mayor Harold Weinbrecht said so astutely) erectile dysfunction medication and vasectomy coverage? The fact is that elected officials shouldn’t be able to cherry pick what reproductive health care coverage they’re okay with and what they’re not and force those decisions and the beliefs that motivated them on everyone else. Abortion care is basic reproductive health care for women and 87% of insurance plans currently cover abortion care. The reason for this is simple (allow me to repeat): Abortion is a safe and legal medical procedure. In fact, it is a procedure that one out of every three women will experience in her lifetime. Unfortunately, politically motivated single-issue attacks like this one have a tendency to snowball and it’s looking like Wake County employees’ benefits could be up next on the chopping block when the County Commissioners meet later in the month. We know you’ll want to help so plans are in the making! Stay tuned to facebook.com/ppcnc and twitter.com/ppcnc to find out how you can be part of the campaign to protect women’s health in your community!"

Here is who made that choice (5/6 GOP).


[Edited on February 11, 2010 at 10:39 PM. Reason : .]

2/11/2010 10:39:28 PM

Well On the one hand I'm all for the employer having the right to decide what tyoe of coverage he is willing to pay for. After all, it's his money (if he's covering everything).

But now you have taxpayers paying for the health insurance of city employees. Some taxpayers want abortion coverage while others do not. A very sticky wicket.

2/11/2010 10:45:24 PM

Fuck yeah old white guys!

2/11/2010 10:56:14 PM

Quote :

"The Apex Town Council unanimously decided to eliminate insurance coverage for abortion from all town employees’ Blue Cross Blue Shield benefit plans. The change went into effect yesterday."

I hope the Apex town council enjoys the increased population of welfare recipients and crime perpetuating delinquents. After all those who are outstanding members of their good church or are wealthy members of the community (and i suppose employed with the city) are either going to have daughters not get pregnant by utilizing proper birth control or can afford an abortion without insurance. Who this will most effect are those poor working class folks whose children they are now helping fix into the gutters of society.

You would think the GOP (minus the religious nuts) would support insurance money used for abortion. In a way this is kind of like insurance companies supplying free flu shots. You take a hit up front, for something you may not entirely support, in order to save money later. I consider "subsidizing" abortions for trailer park daughters to be an investment in a little rascal growing up to break into my car or be a burden on the system that my kids will have to support.

Even for your upper middle class public official whose wife/daughter has an "ooppsy baby" the cost of providing medical care for 18 years to an unwanted kid probably dwarfs the cost of an abortion.


I wonder from teh Christian perspective, when god stops loving each of the 6.8 Billion human lives equally and preciously and starts getting pissed off that all his forests, swamps, and seas are getting ravaged in the name of human development.

[Edited on February 11, 2010 at 11:29 PM. Reason : l]

2/11/2010 11:22:07 PM

Apex is a little on the fringe of the triangle area, but for sake of comparison here are the councils for the 3 cities that form the triangle. There is more diversity than might be readily apparent, I know there are various religions, including at least Christian, Jewish, and agnostic, and of course there are men and women, black and white, some age diversity since you'll find some people in their 30s, gay and straight, and certainly a lot more democrats for the 3 triangle point cities than for Apex

2/11/2010 11:38:23 PM

Quote :

"You would think the GOP (minus the religious nuts) would support insurance money used for abortion. "

The GOP claims to have christian values and although i applaud thier respect for life you would think they (including the religious nuts) would support legislature that eased the economic pressures that lead to many abortions. Without social welfare programs, many single mothers feel thier only options are to kill the baby or give it a terrible life.

I do agree with what you pointed out that it is quite hypocritical to respect the life of the unborn but not the life of those already born. Pick one.

2/12/2010 12:37:34 AM

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 12:56 AM. Reason : lookin good]

2/12/2010 12:44:23 AM

How is this saying "No to Choice?" I'm confused. You can still get an abortion, you just have to poney up a few hundred bucks to pay for it. I suspect they did this to save money on the employee health plan, as I am sure this lowered premiums.

2/12/2010 3:12:24 AM

How much was abortion coverage really a detriment to premiums?

2/12/2010 3:19:30 AM

^^^ hahahaha

2/12/2010 3:57:02 AM

Oh I get it, only a group of diverse people can know what they're doing.

2/12/2010 8:22:12 AM

Quote :

"Oh I get it, only a group of diverse people can know what they're doing. "

I agree with Pat. Just because the group is old white men does not give them an excuse to apply logic and use common sense. This though is not what the relgious right can be expected of.

2/12/2010 8:39:05 AM

Aren't abortions like $500? Big whoop. They're not denying access to abortions; they're simply saying that they won't pay for it. People who don't want babies are still going to get rid of them. People who do are still going to have them. $500 isn't swaying anyone.

OOOohhhh the evil white men are out to get ya.
Boogada boogada boogada

Lest we forget that getting pregnant doesn't happen on accident. Prevention methods in this day and age are simple, cheap, and readily available. Why should taxpayers pick up the bill for your irresponsible mistakes? Maybe people will think twice if they know they're going to have to bust their own ass to come up with $500 of their own money if they make irresponsible decisions.

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 8:54 AM. Reason : s]

2/12/2010 8:53:40 AM

I agree on the point that dropping abortion coverage for public employees is completely within the rights of the city council, even if it's just a moral values thing.

I do think that a homogenous group of white men will almost always do what's best for the white man. Add one black man to the group, and half the white men will instantly become aware of the greater scope of humanity beyond their church and suburb neighborhood. This is very much an issue divided along racial and gender lines. Unfortunately, Apex chose to elect a homogeneous council so most of the blame lies with the voters.

2/12/2010 9:06:03 AM

Quote :

"I suspect they did this to save money on the employee health plan"

the underlying issue for me is the moral issue of abortion
-Councilman Mike Jones

From the news coverage I've seen most government municipalities include this abortion coverage for the first 16 weeks because it is in the Blue Cross standard template/plan for fully insured municipalities.

Government jobs rarely have competitive salaries, but they usually have decent health insurance. Lets go ahead and take that away too and then see how satisfied we are with the crop of government workers we get.

2/12/2010 9:24:31 AM

Quote :

"I agree on the point that dropping abortion coverage for public employees is completely within the rights of the city council, even if it's just a moral values thing. "

I completely agree that it is in their rights and in all seriousness anyone that does not like it CAN Get the Fuck Out.

Quote :

"Aren't abortions like $500? Big whoop. They're not denying access to abortions; they're simply saying that they won't pay for it. People who don't want babies are still going to get rid of them. People who do are still going to have them. $500 isn't swaying anyone. OOOohhhh the evil white men are out to get ya. Boogada boogada boogada Lest we forget that getting pregnant doesn't happen on accident. Prevention methods in this day and age are simple, cheap, and readily available. Why should taxpayers pick up the bill for your irresponsible mistakes? Maybe people will think twice if they know they're going to have to bust their own ass to come up with $500 of their own money if they make irresponsible decisions."

Skack though is missing the point. Sure the tax-payer should not have to foot the bill because civil servant Betty's
17 yr old got pregnant. What Conservatives are doing though is shooting themselves on the foot. By not paying for abortions through
the provided health insurance; the city council is actually putting positive pressure on birth rates which will cost them more in the long
run. So much for fiscal conservatism....

2/12/2010 9:55:53 AM

not really.

No town employee is going to have a baby they didn't want over the few hundred dollars that the town isn't going to spend to kill that baby. That argument might make sense for minimum wage workers who can barely avoid being homeless, not middle income people working for the government. They are not rich by any means, but they can swing the cost for killing their child themselves.

Think realistically, not in a way that justifies your point.

2/12/2010 10:03:13 AM

Quote :

"I do think that a homogenous group of white men will almost always do what's best for the white man. Add one black man to the group, and half the white men will instantly become aware of the greater scope of humanity beyond their church and suburb neighborhood. This is very much an issue divided along racial and gender lines. Unfortunately, Apex chose to elect a homogeneous council so most of the blame lies with the voters."

You don't get out much, do you?
I love how you assume white men are only thinking within the scope of "their church and suburb neighborhood".
And how you assume that a minority who is elected to the council would automatically be a part of a different church or neighborhood. (play separatist much?)
And that free abortions are somehow divided by race and gender lines despite the white males in this very thread who are championing them.
But the best line of all is how unfortunate it is that the Apex voters elected a homogeneous council. Because we all know that all white males have the exact same backgrounds and experiences; and thus we have a shared view that is somehow different than our minority counterparts.

If only they would put pictures of the candidates on the ballots to make it easier for me to know who represents my views so I can stop wasting so much time researching candidates. That shoreeee would be nice. (plz re-read while mimicking southern drawl in case you didn't already.)

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 10:32 AM. Reason : l]

2/12/2010 10:30:50 AM

Quote :

"You don't get out much, do you?"

Nope. You guessed it - I'm a white male.

Quote :

"I love how you assume white men are only thinking within the scope of "their church and suburb neighborhood". And how you assume that a minority who is elected to the council would automatically be a part of a different church or neighborhood. (play separatist much?) "

I can substitute "white men" for really any demographic really - "college students", "cancer survivors", "senior citizens", "doctors", "modern art enthusiasts". Also, its simple reality that, in the rural South, the vast majority of churches are racially homogeneous.

Quote :

"And that free abortions are somehow divided by race and gender lines despite the white males in this very thread who are championing them. "

Statistically, black people have a lot more births per-capita; and of course it's divided along gender lines - its abortion.
Also, anyone who cares enough about politics to post in the Soap Box automatically qualifies as an exception.

Quote :

"But the best line of all is how unfortunate it is that the Apex voters elected a homogeneous council. "

I meant unfortunate in the context of this topic being presented as "bad". It's not unfortunate in the general sense.

Sorry for the lame, quote-style response. I'm at work and don't have time to form my ideas into something prettier.

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 11:30 AM. Reason : .]

2/12/2010 11:29:46 AM

Quote :

"sense for minimum wage workers who can barely avoid being homeless, not middle income people working for the government."

I would not consider most "city workers" as middle class americans. Unless cops, janitors, secrataries, and meter maids are not considered to be white collar jobs.

I honestly do not give a fuck and feel teh council is perfectly within their right to do such thing. My only argument was that if "fiscal conservatism" is the goal than this may bite them in the ass.

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 12:03 PM. Reason : a]

2/12/2010 12:02:52 PM

white collar != middle class.

Yes, if you make a venn diagram there would be some overlap, but one does not imply the other.

2/12/2010 12:08:28 PM

At first when I read this, I thought it was out of line, because denying service for a legal, non-experimental procedure seems inappropriate.

Then I read some of the opinions, and I don't know that I have too much if a problem with cancelling coverage for this procedure. In the end, having an abortion will save money over having a baby, and in most cases, an unwanted pregnancy is the result of personal mistakes and lack of foresight. Given that, it doesn't bother me too much that you have to pay the price (literally) for your mistake.

I would feel differently in cases where the mother had no control over what happened.

I understand this isn't the rationale behind why the town council made their decision, but it is how I did.

2/12/2010 12:09:16 PM

Quote :

"white collar != middle class. Yes, if you make a venn diagram there would be some overlap, but one does not imply the other. "

Simply owning a home and having a job does not make one

Quote :

"Everyone wants to believe they are middle class...But this eagerness...has led the definition to be stretched like a bungee cord — used to defend/attack/describe everything...The Drum Major Institute...places the range for middle class at individuals making between $25,000 and $100,000 a year. Ah yes, there's a group of people bound to run into each other while house-hunting. "

Quote :

"According to some, the majority of Americans may also be correctly referred to as being members of the working class.[26] This use of the term "working class" is largely applicable if the nature of work becomes the main determinant of social class..."

Quote :

"The dentist creates a diagnosis, consults the patient, and conceptualizes a treatment.[28] Dental assistants made roughly $14.40 an hour, about $32,000 annually. Unlike dentists, dental assistants do not have much influence over the treatment of patients.[29] They carry out routine procedures and follow the dentists' instructions. As a result dental assistants may be referred to as being working class. Similar relationships can be observed in other occupations, such as between professors, journalists, and economists on the one hand, and their researchers on the other"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

2/12/2010 12:17:34 PM

stop supplying public things and you wont have to worry about these issues. there are better alternatives that dont involve TAXES

2/12/2010 1:37:38 PM

The title of this thread is misleading.

A better issue is why the employees are required to have health insurance with only BC/BS and not have a choice at who they want to cover them.

2/12/2010 1:47:27 PM

What are all the pictures for?

Here are more:

2/12/2010 1:47:59 PM

My pictures were to show the number of women that had a say in the decision, and for comparison the number of women who have a say in other cities in the region.

2/12/2010 1:59:55 PM

this thread sucks

2/12/2010 2:16:30 PM

OP what is your point? did the democratic system fail you somehow? are people not allowed to elect officials that represent them and get shit done accordingly?

2/12/2010 2:38:36 PM

Quote :

"No town employee is going to have a baby they didn't want over the few hundred dollars that the town isn't going to spend to kill that baby. That argument might make sense for minimum wage workers who can barely avoid being homeless, not middle income people working for the government. They are not rich by any means, but they can swing the cost for killing their child themselves."

not everyone who works for a local government is in the "middle income" bracket

http://www.apexnc.org/docs/hr/emplposclasssystem.pdf

unless you consider $11/hr, "middle income"

2/12/2010 2:46:01 PM

Federal Gov't employee insurance doesn't cover it either...

2/12/2010 2:48:39 PM

This measure will definitely reduce the number of abortions.

2/12/2010 3:10:45 PM

Quote :

"OP what is your point? "

According to what I'm being taught in public administration - organizational behavior, you get less group think, less group shift, and sometimes better decisions when you have a more diverse input.

Quote :

"did the democratic system fail you somehow? "

Not that I can see. Apex got what they elected. But I'm still a little surprised to see a city government doing this.

Quote :

"are people not allowed to elect officials that represent them"

They are. Just because I disagree with one decision a government body made doesn't mean I disagree with the idea of democracy. I disagreed with a lot of decisions Bush made, I criticized them, and then voted against him.

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 3:26 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2010 3:24:58 PM

RAWWR RAWWRR DAMN POORS HAVIN KIDS ALL THE DAMNED TIME RARR ARARRR!!!!

*ends funding for abortions*

2/12/2010 3:28:43 PM

I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.

2/12/2010 3:40:07 PM

in conclusion, OP and many ITT think when white people in large governing groups make a decision they disagree with they blame it on race. cool. racism is getting back in style slowly.

2/12/2010 3:58:47 PM

Lets be real. Policy of the GOP, especially in the south was directly passed down from policy makers who were openly racist.

2/12/2010 4:02:40 PM

Quote :

"in conclusion, OP and many ITT think when white people in large governing groups make a decision they disagree with they blame it on race. cool. racism is getting back in style slowly."

You think I'm racist because I pointed out a group of men decided to selectively take away funding in the area of women's reproductive health?

When I was looking to find out how many women were city councils for Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill I noticed and mentioned as an aside that they were more diverse in other ways than male/female ratios. But I do not think this decision was made on the basis of race.

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 4:10 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2010 4:08:41 PM

Quote :

"NC League move affects ~9K town and muni workers across NC. League head Hankins sez move initiated at the suggestion of Rep Paul Stam (R Wake)"

Well, I lose this argument. Looks like this is going statewide.

2/12/2010 4:12:40 PM

"But I do not think this decision was made on the basis of race."

surrrrrrrrrreee

2/12/2010 4:25:35 PM

Quote :

"Skack though is missing the point. Sure the tax-payer should not have to foot the bill because civil servant Betty's 17 yr old got pregnant. What Conservatives are doing though is shooting themselves on the foot. By not paying for abortions through the provided health insurance; the city council is actually putting positive pressure on birth rates which will cost them more in the long run. So much for fiscal conservatism...."

really?? Those that get on welfare because they have too many kids they can't afford will always be on welfare because they will continue to have kids they can't afford even if abortions were free. They also don't work for the city/town because they're on welfare.

That being said...anyone who does work for the town/city is going to get the abortion (if that was their choice/intention) regardless of who pays for it. You have to be insane to think $500 for an abortion now is more expensive than actually going through with a birth with insurance coverage

Nobody is shooting anybody in the foot (not on the foot)...and anyone who thinks so should put their penis into a wood chipper anyway (or stick a cork in it whatever)

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 4:49 PM. Reason : .]

2/12/2010 4:48:07 PM

^^do you?

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 4:56 PM. Reason : k]

2/12/2010 4:55:57 PM

Quote :

"really?? Those that get on welfare because they have too many kids they can't afford will always be on welfare because they will continue to have kids they can't afford even if abortions were free. They also don't work for the city/town because they're on welfare. "

blah blah blah

well what about the cost of an abortion is CHEAPER then paying for the mom to go to the hospital for labor [/thread]

For the 30th time i do not give two shits that Apex says "No to Choice." Please prove me wrong though that this is the "Fiscally" responsible move and not just pure pandering to the religious right and/or to those who lack enough depth who just whine about fiscal conservatism without realizing indirect costs of a policy.

[Edited on February 12, 2010 at 5:31 PM. Reason : d]

2/12/2010 5:31:12 PM

Look at that -- government bureaucrats making decisions about your healthcare. And while the big bad federal government is thankfully deadlocked, it's local government that actually fucks you over the most.

2/12/2010 8:13:31 PM

As for the guys in the first picture, what do y'all think...they've shelled out for 8, maybe 9 secret abortions between them?

2/12/2010 8:58:08 PM

The only choice being denied is the choice of a healthcare plan that does provide coverage for abortions. It's an elective, non-necessary surgical procedure (yes yes, it is sometimes a medical necessity to save the life of the mother and I have not read the details of this particular plan but I suspect that those are still allowed) which probably should not be covered. I'm fine with it, government compensation packages are vastly out of line with those in the private sector and like it or not, the nature of the beast is that government plans, pensions, and insurance are often beholden to political pressures when they should not be.

2/13/2010 12:17:18 AM

If you don't like the decision of the Apex City Council, vote them out.

And unless I am mistaken, the women of Apex and their views are represented by their city council. Afterall, they have the vote too. If these old white men didn't represent the majority in Apex, they wouldn't be in office to begin with.

Stooping to play the race card or gender card is pure ignorance and only serves to divide people based on things they have no control over. Furthermore, it's a chicken shit tactic that is used by those whose positions are so unpopular they have to use means other than honest dialogue in order to advance it.

2/13/2010 1:48:36 AM

"We're not paying for it" does not mean "We won't let you have it."

2/13/2010 2:08:58 AM

Quote :

"it's a chicken shit tactic that is used by those whose positions are so unpopular they have to use means other than honest dialogue in order to advance it."

2/13/2010 9:05:19 AM

Quote :

"If these old white men didn't represent the majority in Apex, they wouldn't be in office to begin with. "

That's bullshit and you know it. See TARP, bailouts and the current health care reform turd for more.

2/13/2010 10:26:01 AM