Biggest concern here is cost. I also have a dog and from what I have read is that the laminates are more durable? Will I regret doing laminate later on down the road? I plan on selling in 3 years, as this was a forclosure I bought as more of an investment/place to live for a few years. Also this is in Brier Creek where I have $500k+ houses across the street which a buyer would expect real hardwood, but at the price point ($180k) this house would sell down the road I am not sure what a buyer would expect.

I have priced doing both (me doing the labor) 1,000 square feet of flooring

Laminate will run aprox. $2,000 (on sale price at lumberliquidators.com)

Hardwood will be closer to $6,000 (also on sale)

I have also taken into consideration the price of the townhouse. If it were a more expensive house I would be more willing to spend the $6k on flooring.

2/17/2010 12:47:00 PM

what wood are you looking at for $6000 just for materials for 1000sf if you are doing all the labor? They have a ton of good prefinished real solid wood for $4-5/ft2 materials. Obviously they then charge $2.50/ft2 if you want them to contract the install, but if you weren't counting that then I dono.

And as far as laminate vs hardwood, I love hardwood floors but honestly can't stand the look of the laminates. I've yet to see one that you couldn't tell right away in person that it wasn't a laminate, but maybe I haven't seen good jobs.

2/17/2010 1:18:09 PM

I have pergo in my house. For some reason the people I bought the house from used a different kind for the main rooms than the bedrooms. I really like the stuff in the main rooms...it looks like hardwood unless you look closely. The stuff in the bedrooms, however, is

2/17/2010 1:26:36 PM

yes, $6k is just materials, i will be doing all the labor myself.

Im not really worried about someone being able to tell right away that it is laminate, I just dont want it to look shitty lol.

this is the hardwood I was looking at $5.49/sqft + t mordings, quarter round, and padding/vapor barrier.

Well after reading more, it looks like it will be a good bit more. Being laid on concrete slab I will need to install a plywood subfloor for the the real hardwoods to nail to. Laminate doesnt need the plywood subfloor.

http://www.lumberliquidators.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=3232&categoryId=5§ionId=1&subCategoryId=0&storeId=121

2/17/2010 1:42:49 PM

I recommend getting a porta-nailer to help install the flooring: http://www.porta-nails.com/index.shtml. Either buy one used (then sell when done) or rent one.

You need some sort of nail gun with small brads to install the flooring near walls. You need to get about 4 or 5 runs out from the wall before you can use the porta-nailer. You can then take a punch and tap the brads in further with a hammer and then fill the holes with wood putty that matches the wood color.


Is this 1000 square feet in one room or in multiple rooms? Include at least 5% for waste.

[Edited on February 17, 2010 at 1:57 PM. Reason : -]

2/17/2010 1:52:24 PM

This area will cover a living room, dining room, hall way, front entry, 2 closets, sunroom and an office. Living/dining room are wide open, sunroom has a 7 foot opening to it, with half walls on each side, and the den has a 36" door. Kitchen/laundry and bath will all be left as tile. Actual size is 880 sqft, and have factored in a little over 10% for waste being this is my first time doing this although my stepdad has done plenty and would help if I need it. I think I am talking myself out of real hardwoods. The price difference is big, to the tune of 3 to 4 times as much.

Guess the next question is where would you recommend putting t-moldings? I have read that everything shouldnt be one big piece because of expansion with different temps. Can I leave the hall kitchen, dining and sunroom as one big floor and the put and expansion joint to the office where the door is? I like the idea of one big smooth floor without those moldings.

2/17/2010 2:28:12 PM

^I laid my hard woods on slab with no plywood subfloor.
I ordered a 5 gal bucket of glue, and it appeared to be very similar to liquid nails.
You just need to make sure that you don't have too high of a moisture content in your concrete.

[Edited on February 17, 2010 at 2:31 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2010 2:30:41 PM

you have 3 options: Hardwood, Engineered hardwood, or laminant

If you have a dog, and plan on selling soon, go for the laminate. Some laminate is thin and smooth and are cheap looking. Go for the thicker brands with the fake wood seems. the seams add texture and make it seem like real wood.

2/17/2010 2:31:56 PM

Quote :

"I like the idea of one big smooth floor without those moldings."

same and thats the one thing I have to figure out with the house we are buying. It has a very open floor plan and separation T-molding would really ruin the look. The living room flows into the kitchen with no real entryway and the entryway to all the other rooms are very wide. I do know some friends with a very open floor plan that didn't put any T-molding anywhere basically. They've only had the hardwood about 3 years but no problems.

and as far as the price, yea I didn't know you were on slab. I'm on a crawl space so it helps some already having the subfloor ready to nail to. I'm not planning on putting it in myself though which obviously won't be cheap. Also plan to put in about 1000ft2.

[Edited on February 17, 2010 at 2:57 PM. Reason : ]

2/17/2010 2:52:04 PM

what would be the best solid hardwood floor for a dog owner? We want to put hardwood in the main areas and our dog has a heavy foot for a medium size dog. She also has talons instead of regular dog nails. Can you mention stains and finishes, too, that are appropriate for heavy footed claw digging dogs.

As mentioned earlier, glue is ok on a concrete slab? it is above ground and we don't have moisture problems.

Also, we want to put hardwood in the kitchen...what are the problems with moisture from the dish washer/fridge/sink and heat problems from the stove?

2/17/2010 3:00:27 PM

I installed 1000 sqft of unfinished 5" red oak and it cost me about 2500 for everything. Only thing I contracted out was the sanding. I didn't want to screw that up.

I didn't buy from lumber liquidators. They're really not the cheapest.

2/17/2010 3:15:03 PM

got any suggestions for places cheaper for prefinished though, because I tend to actually prefer the look of the prefinished for some reason. I'm certainly open to suggestions.

2/17/2010 3:19:23 PM

^^ so what under up being your total cost after sanding/staining?

2/17/2010 3:21:00 PM

2500

1.89/sqft for wood
.50/sqft sanding

Found some tar paper for free.

Stain and sealant ran about 300.

Used quarter round instead of shoe molding.



[Edited on February 17, 2010 at 3:23 PM. Reason : ]

2/17/2010 3:21:50 PM

damn, I may look into unfinished wood. Didnt realize it would be that much cheaper than the prefinished.

2/17/2010 3:28:55 PM

Quote :

"You just need to make sure that you don't have too high of a moisture content in your concrete."

My company can measure that for you if you want. PM for info.

Quote :

"As mentioned earlier, glue is ok on a concrete slab? it is above ground and we don't have moisture problems."

The concrete has moisture in it whether you have moisture problems or not. However, the amount of moisture that evaporates from the slab decreases with time.

2/17/2010 3:30:48 PM

Unfinished is a pain in the butt, though. Much longer process if you do it yourself and you have to deal with all the dust and crap. I would use pre-finished if I could find it to match what I have now if I needed to do anymore.

Installed, before finishing:


Finished:


I need a better picture of the after.

2/17/2010 3:43:06 PM

I put down some "fancy" Pergo in our house. Was on sale for $1.25/sqft at Lowes and bartered it down to $1/sqft. Total of 600 sqft (dining room, main hallway, and laundry room). Put it all in myself. Was time consuming, but overall easy to do for the average DIY'er.

Personally, I like it a lot. Easy to clean and tough. There are some weaknesses though. They say you can't get it too wet. But, I've tracked in snow/rain this year and it hasn't bothered it. I've even mopped it with a damp mop and it's been fine. Another weakness that I've noticed is that you can't drop anything sharp and heavy (like a butcher knife) on it. It chips the laminate.

[Edited on February 17, 2010 at 3:48 PM. Reason : oh-pinions]

2/17/2010 3:47:00 PM

^^ looks good!

I talked to the guy about the getting water on laminate. They sell a type of glue there that you put in the joints that also seals water from getting in it. Only $6 a bottle, he said one bottle would be enough. Reason I asked is because of the dog, where she is trained but if my old roomates come over she gets a little excited and for some reason cant control her bladder at that point.

ALkatraz; they sell a kit for the moisture test, thanks for the offer though. Its an above ground slab, poured in 2004.

2/17/2010 3:56:38 PM

Quote :

"ALkatraz; they sell a kit for the moisture test, thanks for the offer though. Its an above ground slab, poured in 2004."

No prob. Yea we use a test kit when we run them.

2/17/2010 4:09:29 PM

juiced.. what's the name of the glue product to seal the joints?


I've installed hardwood before and I found laminate to be a pain, but it actually looks great. I just recently installed laminate in our kitchen not even a month ago.

2/17/2010 6:58:00 PM

they have engineered hardwoods now where the top layer of wood is the same thickness as a real 3/4" product so it can be refinished.

im not real sure if any product will truly stand up to a 65 lb. golden retriever puppy. she has been heck on mine

2/17/2010 9:19:10 PM

Quote :

"I installed 1000 sqft of unfinished 5" red oak and it cost me about 2500 for everything. Only thing I contracted out was the sanding. I didn't want to screw that up."

Quote :

"2500 1.89/sqft for wood .50/sqft sanding Found some tar paper for free. Stain and sealant ran about 300. Used quarter round instead of shoe molding."

Does not compute.
1.89 sqft x 1000 sq feet = $1899. That's assuming zero waste which would be impossible.
Did you have $0 shipping and $0 tax?
$1900 + $300 = $2200
Where did you find this guy who was willing to sand, stain, and seal 1,000 sqft for $300?

2/17/2010 10:52:20 PM

1.89/sqft for wood - contractor's costs includes everything (tax, labor, waste, etc)
.50/sqft sanding

$1000*1.89= $1,890
$1000*0.50= $500
$2390 + $300 = $2690

2/17/2010 11:01:55 PM

Ah, I didn't realize at first that he did the staining/sealing himself.

2/17/2010 11:13:50 PM

Laminate is so beautiful and durable.

I don't see why we even have hardwood anymore.

Except maybe in really, really big rooms. Huge rooms can benefit from some real hardwood.

2/18/2010 12:25:09 AM

Quote :

"Laminate is so beautiful and durable. I don't see why we even have hardwood anymore."

you're serious, yes?

2/18/2010 8:38:53 AM

^^Because wood >>>> fake wood

2/18/2010 8:41:33 AM

Quote :

"egyeyes juiced.. what's the name of the glue product to seal the joints?"

On the quote is it just called floating floor tongue and groove adhesive. It has to go on when you are putting the floor together, so its not something you can do after the fact. From what he told me, put a bead of glue in the groove, install the next piece and wipe away any access on top.

I decided to do laminate for its durability. Is lumberliquidators the best place to buy from locally?

2/18/2010 8:52:25 AM

might as well ask here as anywhere - is there anything like a grout for wood floors that have already been installed? the flooring in my house is pretty nice, but it was obviously untreated/stained when it was put in, and the coating that was put on is coming off in those areas that get a lot of sunlight

i don't really know that it all needs to be refinished, but i was wondering if there's any process that would allow me to sand it myself (by hand) and then brush over the wood to reseal it and fill in the tiny gaps between boards

2/18/2010 9:02:26 AM

I love my laminate, but, yes, there are laminates that are VISIBLY fake and cheap looking. You can find some awesome laminate, though.

2/18/2010 9:05:35 AM

If you are on a slab, dont nail it!!!

Go ahead and lay down floor muffler. Its a cellular thin subfloor material that blocks moisture and it also makes the floor sound like hard wood. Laminates sound loud and thin, when walked on with heels or boots. Floor muffler solves that problem

2/18/2010 9:41:23 AM

Quote :

"i don't really know that it all needs to be refinished, but i was wondering if there's any process that would allow me to sand it myself (by hand) and then brush over the wood to reseal it and fill in the tiny gaps between boards"

I believe there is.

2/18/2010 9:45:04 AM

Yeah, when I say 100, I really laid probably closer to 850. You save a lot of money doing the labor yourself. Sealing was the hardest part.

2/18/2010 9:46:14 AM

^ I don't think you mentioned it but, are you on slab or a crawlspace(ie did you have to nail or not)? I haven't really been considering installing it myself because I felt like 1000 ft2 would take forever, especially since I have never done this before and I'd have to be nailing to the subfloor. I have a friend who has installed hardwood before but I still felt like with just him and I it would take forever. How long did it take you to lay it? (I am planning to buy prefinished as stated before).

Also, I was scared off of thinking I could do it myself a few years ago after seeing the job my uncle did, who is normally very handy (he does all kinds of woodwork like cutting down a tree and making instruments straight from that etc.). He tried to install hardwood flooring for the first time and screwed it all up. After a year or two it has buckled pretty noticeably in some places from expanding etc.

[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 9:55 AM. Reason : ]

2/18/2010 9:55:09 AM

We have a crawlspace, so subfloor. An issue with mine is that they also put MDF down on top of the plywood, that we wanted to remove (pet issues had ruined it), so that took the longest. I chose a 5" board specifically so I felt like I was laying more with less work, which really isn't true.

I also did it in stages (things in personal life + pregnant wife). I'd venture a guess that if I had everything cleared out and ready to go, I could've had the floor laid in 2 days (16 hours), sanded in 1, and then sealed and stained in 3.5 (assuming 3 coats of polyurethane, or 2 + sanding sealer).

A week, probably. That doesn't include the molding at the baseboards and all that. As long as you have an flooring nailer and access to a saw and flooring jack, it won't take long putting it down.

[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 10:02 AM. Reason : ]

2/18/2010 10:01:52 AM

Interesting, I appreciate the info. We are also planning to go with something wider. Probably just 3" or so, I just like the look of the "plank" style more. I'll put some more thought into trying to install it myself with the help of some friends, especially once I measure exact dimensions. Heck, it may even be worth it to install it in the foyer, office, sitting room, dining room and pay for someone else just to do the living room and kitchen areas. The first rooms I listed are probably all fairly easy (rectangular rooms) whereas the kitchen and living room have some angles in it and other stuff that probably makes it a good bit more complicated.

2/18/2010 10:17:59 AM

Quote :

"are you on slab or a crawlspace(ie did you have to nail or not)? I haven't really been considering installing it myself because I felt like 1000 ft2 would take forever, especially since I have never done this before and I'd have to be nailing to the subfloor. I have a friend who has installed hardwood before but I still felt like with just him and I it would take forever. How long did it take you to lay it? (I am planning to buy prefinished as stated before)."

I know this wasn't directed to me but I might have a time estimate.

We put hardwood down in my parents place back in highschool. We planned on it taking a week and it took about 3 months. Moving lots of furniture around is time consuming. He is the process we used:

1. Rip up carpet and tack strips - discard
2. Search for left over staples and remove or pound into the sub floor
3. Remove baseboards
4. Screw down subfloor in areas that are raised
5. Lay tar paper
6. Mark first run edge with chalk line
7. Lay first few runs with vertical brad nailer (pneumatic)
8. Start nailing floors with porta nailer when far enough away from the wall
9. Two people would bring more boxes of wood when needed
10. Someone needs to cut pieces when terminating at the wall
11. Start new runs with cut pieces when available
12. Use the vertical brad nailer when approaching the opposite wall
13. Use a punch to make sure brads are down below top of wood
14. Use a similar color wood putty to fill above brad nail heads
15. Use the brad nailer to put the baseboards back on the wall
16. Put quarter round down after baseboards

We have five people in my family mom, dad, and 3 sons in high school. When we first got going it was difficult but after the first 200 sf you get the hang of it. By the time we had the whole upstairs done (800 sf or so), we were on fire. Mom was on the chop saw and putty duty, dad would prep new areas, help bring up more boxes, and take measurements at run terminations. My brothers and I were on the nailers, running pieces to the saw, or helping bring in new boxes.

It took all of that week with us going about 8 hours a day to complete the entire upstairs. Meaning
1. Move everything out
2. Prep the floor (it didn't have carpet either, just sub floor upstairs)
3. lay wood
4. replace baseboards
5. quarter round
6. putty holes
7. move stuff back upstairs

[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 10:33 AM. Reason : A table saw might be needed to rip pieces at walls.]

[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 10:34 AM. Reason : That was just the upstairs not the rest of the downstairs.]

2/18/2010 10:30:41 AM

didnt read the thread, but dont get laminate....I dont know how long you plan on living in your home, but you can always refinish hardwood flooring, even engineered flooring you can re-surface a few times. Laminate flooring I just dont think will last as long and you will eventually end up having to replace it down the road.... Hardwood flooring, you are set for life, and is more desirable for resale...

^lol...3 months...good lord, what was the total sq footage....that by no means is the average time unless you are only working weekends maybe. Although, if you have no idea what your doing, then you also should not rush and do things properly .Damn, the family was awesome help!

It is a time consuming job, but it should not take you that long

Having the right tools can decrease the time tremendously





[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 10:42 AM. Reason : d]

2/18/2010 10:33:51 AM

Quote :

"no means is the average time unless you are only working weekends maybe."

Well after spring break was done, we worked about 2 hours a day during the week and back to 8 hours on the weekends.

Like I said, moving furniture around took forever. Also, we refinished the baseboards when they were off. Large open rooms were okay but hallways and small rooms were bad because there is a lot of down time at wall terminations waiting for pieces to come back cut to fit.

2/18/2010 10:46:28 AM

Yep, the prep is harder and more time consuming than the actual process. You'll want to make sure you do it right, though.

2/18/2010 10:53:28 AM

Quote :

"might as well ask here as anywhere - is there anything like a grout for wood floors that have already been installed? the flooring in my house is pretty nice, but it was obviously untreated/stained when it was put in, and the coating that was put on is coming off in those areas that get a lot of sunlight i don't really know that it all needs to be refinished, but i was wondering if there's any process that would allow me to sand it myself (by hand) and then brush over the wood to reseal it and fill in the tiny gaps between boards"

yep, you have to refinish it to do it right. sand down pretty much everything (you have to be very careful how much you sand, better to hire a pro to do it usually, unintentional divots suck)

http://www.faceliftfloors.com/q-and-a/cracks.php - you need a spreadable wood filler

http://www.faceliftfloors.com/q-and-a/sawdustfiller.php - same sort of thing

it's humidity related, it's cracking in the sun b/c it's drying out there first (more heat)

small cracks between the floorboards are considered ok (dime thickness or smaller) for hardwood floors

if you want that super smooth surface you need to have all your floors redone and have a gym floor quality treatment of polyurethane (very thick), it's usually not recommended.

2/18/2010 11:00:15 AM

yeah, hallways are a bitch...prep isnt bad imho, but i can see how it would be with an obscene amount of furniture ...What takes so long is that the boards are so narrow, that putting down a row that takes 5-10 min, and youve only moved 3 inches in the transverse direction.

[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 11:11 AM. Reason : f]

2/18/2010 11:10:27 AM

This is how we installed our laminate. Unfortunately our kitchen had vinyl (grr I hate vinyl) and instead of dealing with the mess of pulling it off and asbestos, we just decided to put our laminate with the pad directly on top. The best thing about it is that each laminate plank was large and therefore you can cover more ground in much less time. Honestly, if you're concerned with cost and you're planning on selling soon, just do the laminate and be done with it.

2/18/2010 11:56:50 AM

^ that's probably ok actually, just make sure the surface is clean.

you can get wider hardwood planks

2/18/2010 11:59:02 AM

True, but if the biggest concern here is cost (as mentioned in the OP) then all fingers point to laminate I would say.

2/18/2010 12:25:21 PM

agree, you can get bamboo

[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 12:28 PM. Reason : s]

2/18/2010 12:28:39 PM

^^^exactly, just more exponsive

Initial cost may be lower, but considering as t approaches infinity, I'd go with solid hardwood. i think because of the longevity of the solid flooring, cost will be cheaper in the long run b/c it will last so long. you are talking to a wood snob though, so i am way biased.

Have you ever been to melvins and seen there laminate flooring? granted they have much more traffic and probably more moisture getting to their floors, but after 1 year, they were toast. So proper care needs to be taken no matter what you get. I think hardwoods can take a beating much better than laminate.



[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 1:20 PM. Reason : d]

2/18/2010 1:11:15 PM

Agreed sir, I am a big fan of hardwood but as per this situation I think laminate is the most painless way out.

2/18/2010 1:21:48 PM

I will respectufully agree to disagree ...i think you are right about painless though. it would not require near the time investment or cost as solid, and if you plan on selling in 3 years, why not. If you installed solid, it would jsut have to reflect in your sale price, which you cant always count on...Laminate is much more low risk, so I think thats a fine choice..

2/18/2010 1:33:45 PM