i just heard a really cool idea on NPR,
a dude says Germany took a bigger hit to their GDP than the usa, but their unemployment is lower because they have whats called a workshare program
instead of the govt paying people for being out of work, they pay the employer half of the worker's salary to keep them employed
the the employer get labor at 1/2 the cost, and employee keeps working

i can see some downsides to this but overall i think it might be better than our system

2/18/2010 11:46:48 AM

I would tell the government that I'm going to fire everyone for the duration of the downturn.

2/18/2010 11:54:14 AM

But don't you see social programs are evil because,

2/18/2010 12:12:18 PM

yo keep these dudes working so they can pay income tax for the coming year

peace

2/18/2010 12:19:50 PM

I would tell the government that I'm going to fire everyone for the duration of the downturn.

It is subsidizing employment. A good idea during a recession. Hey, why not stop collecting the employer's share of the payroll tax? Cheaper workers, means more workers.

My main objection to such a scheme is the difficulty in implementation. Fraud, government agents, the whole bit.

2/18/2010 12:26:03 PM

It sounds interesting, but there are a lot of problems with it. Do we apply this all companies or simply those that are going to lay off employees? As stated several times, what keeps companies from simply saying their going to lay off large numbers of their employees in order to get subsidies? This could keep companies that really could streamline their processes from doing so and instead riding out the recession milking the government instead. Are we going to do this for all industries or a narrow selection? How do we pick which industries we're going to provide subsidies to? Is it worth subsidizing the jobs of a company that should probably fail because it's so poorly managed or unable to keep up with their changing industry? Do we subsidize more controversial sectors like finance, defense, oil and energy, insurance, etc.? What happens when companies want to start giving out raises? If we do prop up companies, then what happens to all that excess product they'll manufacture; will that create a glut in the market for these goods that will hamper those companies even when a recovery occurs?

It's an interesting idea, it may work in certain circumstances, but it's wide open for abuse.

2/18/2010 1:15:06 PM

hey let's all state the first stupid objection we think of as if it didn't occur to the fucking nation practicing the fucking program

and as if they have not found some workable way to address it

2/18/2010 1:35:14 PM

^ Or maybe they're valid objections because no fucking nations are practicing the fucking program.

I think the whole concept was explained incorrectly in the OP.

I looked around and all I could find was the german Kurzarbeit ("short-work") program where employers cut hours and the government pays 60% of the lost time. This allows companies to cut production without lay-offs. In addition to lower unemployment, the other big upside is that this allows companies to step up production quicker in the period following a downturn.

In case the explanation didn't make sense:

Quote :

"Here’s how the program works. A firm facing the challenges of the recession cuts Angela’s hours from 35 to 25 per week, thus reducing her weekly salary to 714 euros from 1,000 euros. Angela does not work for the firm during those hours. As part of its short-work program, the government now pays Angela 171 euros -- 60 percent of her lost salary. Most important, she still has a job. Effectively, the government is giving her unemployment insurance for the 10 hours a week that she is not employed."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=ax3kyE3bILDY

2/18/2010 2:16:29 PM

if you are still employed, but fall below your unemployment benefit + earnings allowance you can get partial unemployment currently from the state..

that sounds a lot like what everyone is saying we should do, even tho it is already done..

2/19/2010 11:41:03 AM

^It's not really already done.

Firms in the US typically opt for full-on layoffs, not the cutting of hours. I mean, everybody knows that when the economy gets bad, you're either gonna be laid off or working harder than ever to make up for the work of all the people who got laid off...

Furthermore, I suspect the unemployment benefit/earnings allowance in the US is not a large enough figure to be meaningful to most people. And I also suspect partial unemployment isn't particularly generous either. I mean, my friend collects full unemployment...if she works a job and makes more than $144/week, her unemployment benefits are cut drastically enough that it mathematically does not make sense for her to ever work more than 10 hours a week.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying let's not pretend we have anything as smart as Germany's program. Instead, we've got unemployed people who legitimately cannot justify trying to work, and employed people busting their asses to do their job plus the unemployed person's job and pay taxes so the unemployed dude can eat. It don't make no sense.

2/19/2010 2:46:54 PM

i got partial unemployment last week (this paycheck, today). at my job, instead of laying off more ppl, they opted to make us take unpaid furlough days. if i take off 2 or more days in 1 week i get at least some partial unemployment benefit.

this german plan pays 60% of your lost wage, and that is not too far off from what i've been seeing from partial unemployment on the weeks i take those furlough days after you figure in taxes and stuff.

edit:
this is based on us having to take 4 unpaid days off a month and me taking them all in the same week. so i work 1 day to get me to (slightly above) the earning allowance, and the state gives me the rest up to my benefit + earning allowance

just because this is not the typical way that businesses in this country operate does not mean that there are not programs that will allow a similar end result.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 3:02:34 PM

^I applaud your employer!

2/19/2010 5:56:23 PM