full article http://www.livescience.com/health/060302_diet_reality.html

Quote :

"The idea that Americans are obsessed with weight loss is a myth... Many of us would like to lose weight in the same way we'd like to get rich by winning the lottery: We'll do it if it doesn't take too much effort. Americans don't want to take the figurative and literal steps to achieve our goals. We want to eat more and weigh less. Diet and exercise—the only proven method for effective, sustained weight loss—sounds good but takes too much willpower for most of us. The myth that most diets fail has it exactly backward: Instead, most people fail diets. Just about any sensible diet will help a person lose weight. Blaming the diet because the dieter quit is like blaming the unused treadmill for not doing its job. The real solution isn't in fad diets or workout DVDs; the solution is in the mirror. "

Thoughts on this perspective? I know it's probably striking a nerve among some people who are struggling with their weight right now. It seems to make valid points about those people who "let themselves go," although not necessarily applying to people who may have something genetic going on or eating habits tied to emotional or behavioral issues.

[Edited on February 20, 2010 at 12:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2010 12:50:57 PM

It is true.

Most people who try any sensible diet give up too quickly, or never really get into it wholeheartedly. It is against our biological nature to try to limit our food intake and lose weight. Takes a lot of dedication and willpower.

2/20/2010 12:56:27 PM

In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet.

2/20/2010 1:04:00 PM

I'll be the dissenting opinion here.

Many diets encourage you to eat foods which make you fatter. The government steps in to tell you the same thing. Remember 6-11 servings of grain on the food pyramid? And since they can't say (because of immense pressure from the food industry) that particular foods are bad for you, they instead highlight exercise as a cure all.

This line of thinking has drawn sharp criticism lately. Here's a damn good article about it:

Read more: Does Exercise Really Make Us Thinner? -- New York Magazine http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/#ixzz0g6JtWxZ6

Quote :

"Just last month, the American Heart Association and the American College of Sports Medicine published joint guidelines for physical activity and health. They suggested that 30 minutes of moderate physical activity five days a week is necessary to “promote and maintain health.” What they didn’t say, though, was that more physical activity will lead us to lose weight. Indeed, the best they could say about the relationship between fat and exercise was this: “It is reasonable to assume that persons with relatively high daily energy expenditures would be less likely to gain weight over time, compared with those who have low energy expenditures. So far, data to support this hypothesis are not particularly compelling.” In other words, despite half a century of efforts to prove otherwise, scientists still can’t say that exercise will help keep off the pounds."

One last point. Most "sensible diets" will be founded on "Calories in, calories out" which is pretty stupid in my opinion. Sure, you can control "calories in," just with super-human willpower and obsessive calorie counting. But your body regulates calories out and it will tend to match what you put in.

2/20/2010 1:19:47 PM

I also disagree with the premise. People fail because they go about diets the wrong way. The article's right, most people want a quick fix with some stupid fad diet. Doesn't matter how much willpower you have - unless you're Ghandi you'll crack after eating nothing but grapefruit for 2 meals a day.

The problem is consumerism. The weight loss industry is worth billions. Manufacturers of frozen/processed/packaged "health foods" don't care about health, they care about money. I remember a commercial for some vitamin drink where a businesswoman is shown snacking on a carrot on the way to work. The message was that it's ridiculous for someone to actually eat carrots. In reality, eating a carrot would be healthier and cheaper than a crappy vitamin drink. But a true healthy diet isn't worth billions.

Also part of the problem is that the US doesn't really have an established food culture. Can you imagine low carb catching on in Italy?

2/20/2010 1:29:45 PM

Quote :

"In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet."

2/20/2010 1:30:24 PM

agreed. changed lifestyle....dropped 85 pounds in a year. no "diet"

2/20/2010 1:32:09 PM

Quote :

"In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet."

2/20/2010 1:47:11 PM

Yup, the conventional wisdom is the conventional wisdom.

2/20/2010 1:49:15 PM

Quote :

"I'll be the dissenting opinion here. Many diets encourage you to eat foods which make you fatter."

this is where i see the problem. diets should not be based on weight but on health and bmi (or some logical calculation of fat to muscle).

i guarantee if someone's goal is simply to lose weight and they devote all of their energy dieting and exercising only to end up around the same weight they would be pissed. they dont care that they are overall healthier, have more muscle, better cholesterol, better blood pressure, etc....it's about the weight.

diets don't encourage you to eat foods that make you fatter, they encourage you to up your intake according to the exercise you should be performing in order to maximize turning fat into muscle

2/20/2010 2:16:14 PM

A lot of people get discouraged when they first start working out because they gain muscle easily (at first). This counterbalances the fat that they lost. Even though their body fat % has gone down, their weight stays the same or actually goes up a bit. Most people (myself included) only go by the scale to measure their progress. However, now I go by the scale and the mirror.

2/20/2010 2:54:20 PM

Quote :

"In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet."

also, calories in < calories out = weight loss

REVOLUTIONARY IDEAS ITT

2/20/2010 3:18:58 PM

I agree with this

all of my clients succeed except that ones who half ass their nutrition

it's not a revolutionary idea, people just hate to admit that they're the problem

2/20/2010 5:17:18 PM

While there are probably some other complex elements that affect weight loss success, I tend to agree with the general statement.

Dieters often give up. I think that there is a problem with the concept of "the diet." People see "the diet" as a short term fix that's just going to melt off pounds. They do not understand that they have to make a long term lifestyle change in order to lose weight and then maintain their weight loss. Many dieters also want to see quick results. When they see that they've only lost a pound in a week, they often feel like the diet isn't working or that the effort just isn't worth the results. Unfortunately, healthy weight loss can be just that slow (or slower). It's a long journey, not a short trip.

2/20/2010 6:27:00 PM

Quote :

"In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. "

2/20/2010 6:37:03 PM

Quote :

"calories in < calories out = weight loss"

no

[Edited on February 20, 2010 at 6:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2010 6:54:00 PM

i absolutely agree with that perspective. people expect whatever diet fad is in to give some kind of instant gratification but aren't willing to give up their lazy lifestyles and give up before any results are seen

2/20/2010 7:04:20 PM

I think another problem that makes dieting difficult is restaurant portions. If you go out to eat at a restaurant, you are almost guaranteed to get 2-3 times more food in one dish than you should be eating. I wish restaurants would reduce prices and serve smaller portions in general. I have gotten into a habit of halving my food and boxing up for later almost every time I go out to a restaurant.

It is rare to find a restaurant that serves dishes in the correct portion. I think this is partly because most people want huge portions (more for the money) and because restaurants can justify higher prices if they give you a ton of food. Smaller portions would probably decrease profits since the time to seat and serve people would be the same except they would be spending less on a smaller portion of food.

One final thought; As young kids what are we taught? Finish your food... don't waste your food. This was effectively beaten into my brain as a kid. Even now I find it hard to leave uneaten food on a plate. There is always that threshold where you've eaten too much and there is not enough to save for later. At this point my childhood learning (subconscious) takes over and persuades me to finish the rest so it won't go to waste. This almost always resulting in overeating. This is why I make a conscience decision at the beginning of the meal to halve the food and save enough for a small meal later.

[Edited on February 20, 2010 at 10:24 PM. Reason : final thought]

2/20/2010 10:17:41 PM

I don't think I could have made those points any differently.

I'm the same way about finishing what I've paid for.

We had fish tonight at a local joint (Jordans, for the EI crowd) and I ended up eating half of my potato just so I could finish off the fish. We took half of my wifes plate back to the dogs.

We commented on how we should have shared followed by "it would be nice if they had smaller portions".

We mention to the waitress about this that it was too much and we should have shared and she says we could have gotten then Senior portion size. Wtf? I'm glad I have that option but do they label it Senior to try and discourage people from getting it?

2/20/2010 10:35:32 PM

restaurants should be shrinks portions like crazy, they're giving away free food if you can't finish your plate

while its true to make a lifestyle change instead of a quick fix for losing/gaining weight, I find it best to take your diet 1 day at a time, rather than swearing off foods/calories for X days/weeks/months. I think it is much easier to wake up today, tell yourself you're going to stay in a deficit/surplus for this day. Wake up the next and do the same. Eventually days turn into weeks etc. I find it much better than saying..."OK gonna eat clean for a month" only to fail a week into it.

2/20/2010 11:23:56 PM

I'm on weight watchers and have lost 7 lbs ! Obviously if you aren't doing the diet, then you aren't dieting...it's all about portion control and eating sensibly. I think Americans just find it difficult to eat sensibly because, basically, they don't have nutrition facts easily available at the drive-thru windows. Also, do you read up on ALL the nutrition facts of the food you eat? Prob not, it's not what we've been taught.

[Edited on February 21, 2010 at 9:16 AM. Reason : ]

2/21/2010 9:16:13 AM

congrats on your weight loss!

i'm doing weight watchers too.

2/21/2010 10:03:03 AM

^^^ you don't need to say "I'm going to eat better for a day/week/month". Even if you eat clean for a whole month, you haven't accomplished anything in the long run if you don't keep it up.

If you want to get healthy, you need to change your whole outlook on eating and exercise.



^^ It's not the fault of nutrition info not being on drive-through windows. Jesus, nobody has any illusions about the healthiness of going to McDonald's to get a Big Mac, half pound of french fries, and a quart of Coke. They do it despite knowing it's a terrible idea.

It's:

A. Lack of self-discipline

B. Skewed perception on what constitutes significant exercise, and to a lesser extent, what constitutes a reasonable diet (portions are the big thing, here).

C. Skewed perception of what constitutes "fat". When almost everyone is fat, the less-fat people don't even think of themselves as being overweight to begin with, because they aren't as bad as the hordes of disgusting land-whales they're surrounded by.

[Edited on February 21, 2010 at 10:05 AM. Reason : ]

2/21/2010 10:03:27 AM

I think the problem is it's virtually impossible for most (not all but most) people to get where they want to go with only dieting or changing what you eat or whatever you want to call it. Exercise is so so so important to burning fat and speeding up your metabolism. Somebody already mentioned this, but your body will try its best to adjust your metabolism based on your calorie intake, and you NEED exercise to keep that internal regulator from slowing your progress.

I know I have heard the old "burn 3500 calories and lose a pound riff". That is absolute bullshit. In college I ate junkfood and drank all the time, and was pretty lethargic when it came to exercising, and yet I still only weighed 225 pounds or so at my maximum. If that ratio was true I probably would have ballooned to 400 pounds, but my body did its best to try and keep me as close to my "ideal" weight as possible. Now I exercise 5-6 times a week and eat pretty healthy.... I'd give myself a 9/10 on how I eat, end I still weigh about 195 pounds but I am so so so much healthier.

I think the calories/pound ratio is for people who REALLY need to lose weight and have an extreme quantity of surplus fat, like Biggest Loser type stuff. At that point, the ratio may apply, but to the average person looking to lose weight (or more importantly, get healthy) it's just a falacy that leads to frustration.

2/21/2010 10:32:10 AM

Quote :

"One final thought; As young kids what are we taught? Finish your food... don't waste your food. This was effectively beaten into my brain as a kid."

More 80s/90s "there's starving kids in Africa!" bullshit. I was told the same thing. It's kind of absurd if you think about it... better to have the food in the trash than adding to your wasteline. The best thing of all is having a reasonable size portion of decent food, so you don't have to throw anything and out and you don't feel like you are depriving yourself.

2/21/2010 10:41:11 AM

Portions are the biggest problem. Many times, people will think they are eating a healthful option (which may be true) but it is still three times larger than your typical meal should be.

People certainly fail diets. Not the other way around.

The truth is, for whatever reason, food is tied to emotions. People deal with it different ways. It affects people in different ways.

I have friends that are thin (not all women, but mostly), that make a huge scene after they eat anything that isn't a salad. THey claim to be sick, or may actually be sick (which isn't healthy) or talk about how they ate so much (when they didn't.) these annoing women are the same people that order just a side dish for their entree and then try to eat all of their husband's good food.

Some people are just dependent on food. It is delicious.

2/21/2010 11:07:11 AM

I will never understand how someone can gain large amounts of body fat and be unable to lose it. Due to my body type I just assume its hard for others. I'm finding it harder to be sympathetic.......time to go down another gallon of ice cream.

2/21/2010 11:12:22 AM

A few thoughts on Weight Watchers. My wife lost a good bit of weight on WW. I had several complaints with the system though:

1. It absolutely demonizes dietary fat. The calculations are based on calories, fat, and fiber. If something has a moderate amount of fat, the points fly through the roof even though the calories from fat are already accounted for.

2. This causes you to replace meat, fish, eggs, and nuts with high carb foods, which I think is a disaster. Those foods with protein and fat would cause you stay full longer, but instead you tend to spike your insulin levels, which causes you to be hungrier and get fatter.

3. After enough experience with WW, you can game the system by eating things are that technically "zero points." Because of rounding issues, you can get away with eating more than you should.

I do like, however, that it encourages you to meet with people for support and the points calculations should cause you to get intimately acquainted with vegetables and salads.

2/21/2010 11:19:51 AM

I agree with the original article. I have a friend who bitches about being fat, but never does anything to improve his situation. Last week he said he doesn't have the "time, money, or energy" to lose weight right now. When I pointed out that he could save money if he quit eating cookies, chips, and ice cream and he'll have more energy once he starts exercising he just ignored me.

2/21/2010 11:30:28 AM

Quote :

"I agree with the original article. I have a friend who bitches about being fat, but never does anything to improve his situation. Last week he said he doesn't have the "time, money, or energy" to lose weight right now. When I pointed out that he could save money if he quit eating cookies, chips, and ice cream and he'll have more energy once he starts exercising he just ignored me."

and this is why america has such an obesity problem..people come up with all kinds of invalid excuses for their own personal poor choices

2/21/2010 12:11:51 PM

Quote :

"calories in < calories out = weight loss no"

I believe there are some laws of thermodynamics that might disagree except for maybe the " = weight loss" but definately a decrease in energy..

[Edited on February 21, 2010 at 12:24 PM. Reason : .]

2/21/2010 12:22:30 PM

As a fat guy, I debated about posting or not.

I've tried a lot of the diets out there at some point in my life, and not trying to defend people that quit, but 95% of all diets out there don't work because they are miserable and very, very hard to stick with. Plus, they are such a radical change in eating, that even if you do lose weight on them the weight will never stay off because that style of eating just isnt sustainable.

The only one I can speak positively about is Weight Watchers. It really does take a change in your lifestyle to begin to lose weight, "diets" are not worth it.

My wife, while not nearly as heavy as me, is doing weight watchers with me and we are having a fantastic time at it. It isn't hard at all and "feels" like the right way to be doing it. She has lost 34 pounds and I have lost 26 as of yesterday morning.

I know by posting this, I am opening myself to flames, but I thought it was worth posting to also open myself up to questions if anyone has any from the "fat guy perspective". It's very easy for people who have struggled with some type of addiction to say "duh, use common sense, ice cream makes you fat", just the same as it is for a non-smoker to say "duh, use common sense, those things smell and they give you lung cancer". There is a lot of psychological damage and changes that happen when you are overweight, and they seem to compound the problem a lot.

All of that being said, I do think that a large portion of the people have willpower issues when it come to committing to a program to change thier life and eating habits forever, but I think that gets compounded by the amount of noise/static in the diet/nutrition world. It is hard to sift through what is doable and what isnt, especially given the "I want it now" mentality of a lot of people.

2/21/2010 1:09:22 PM

Yep, it took more than a month or two to get fat. It's gonna take more than a month or two to get in shape

2/21/2010 1:16:27 PM

23 year bulk, 2 year cut, losing fat was EZ

2/21/2010 1:30:44 PM

Quote :

"In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet"

Quote :

"Diets don't fail people, people fail diets"

Quote :

"I also disagree with the premise. People fail because they go about diets the wrong way."

Right. The people fail.
They could be getting bad information.... their family could've set a bad example..... But still, they fail. Not advertisers, not the government, not the schools, not the restaurants.... the people. The people fail.

Quote :

"The problem is consumerism."

No. That is a problem, but only for certain people that are dumb, weak, or otherwise fail to be responsible. I see commercials all the time for dumb crap -- how is it that I've managed to not buy it?

Quote :

"I remember a commercial for some vitamin drink where a businesswoman is shown snacking on a carrot on the way to work. The message was that it's ridiculous for someone to actually eat carrots."

Haha... I've seen that one -- and I'd choose the carrot. It is her choice, you know....


-------

People should be allowed to make poor food decisions, get sick, and die, with no interference from the government. (and hopefully before they passed on their genes.)

2/21/2010 2:01:13 PM

Quote :

"I know by posting this, I am opening myself to flames, but I thought it was worth posting to also open myself up to questions if anyone has any from the "fat guy perspective". It's very easy for people who have struggled with some type of addiction to say "duh, use common sense, ice cream makes you fat", just the same as it is for a non-smoker to say "duh, use common sense, those things smell and they give you lung cancer". There is a lot of psychological damage and changes that happen when you are overweight, and they seem to compound the problem a lot."

My issue with my friend was that he could do something. I used to weigh 215 pounds and I dropped the weight by making subtractions here and there. Here are a list of things I've noticed in the few hours every week or so I'm around him:

1. A bunch of soda in the fridge
2. He's eating cookies or something else while watching TV (he actually brought THE WHOLE BOX, which thankfully he didn't finish, over to the couch along with a glass of milk)
3. Frequently orders dessert in a restaurant
4. Has potato chips sitting by the spot where he watches tv and browses the internet

If he took out even one of those things and didn't replace it with something else he could make some progress. And from there hopefully he'd move on to taking something else out and maybe look at exercising. At least that's how it worked for me. I ordered less food (like six inch subs instead of foot longs), drank diet soda or water, and steered clear of potato chips and ice cream. But, no, he'd rather bitch.

2/21/2010 2:36:28 PM

Quote :

"A few thoughts on Weight Watchers. My wife lost a good bit of weight on WW. I had several complaints with the system though: 1. It absolutely demonizes dietary fat. The calculations are based on calories, fat, and fiber. If something has a moderate amount of fat, the points fly through the roof even though the calories from fat are already accounted for. 2. This causes you to replace meat, fish, eggs, and nuts with high carb foods, which I think is a disaster. Those foods with protein and fat would cause you stay full longer, but instead you tend to spike your insulin levels, which causes you to be hungrier and get fatter. 3. After enough experience with WW, you can game the system by eating things are that technically "zero points." Because of rounding issues, you can get away with eating more than you should."

These things should not happen if you are correctly following the entire Weight Watchers plan. Unfortunately, some people get caught up in only calculating points and staying within their allowance and they forget about the other parts of the plan: tracking hunger and the healthy checks. Tracking hunger is just mindful eating. Am I really hungry? Did that satisfy me? How long did this meal or snack leave me satiated? Weight Watchers encourages you to eat filling foods that will carry you longer. The healthy checks are there to ensure that the foods that you are eating are meeting your nutritional needs. Each day, you should be checking off most if not all of your daily servings of lean protein, healthy oils, dairy, fruits & veggies, etc. If you're hungry, you should be looking at your healthy checks to see what you haven't had enough of for that day. And lastly, a majority of your zero point foods are vegetables and your weekly flex points should be able to handle any rounding issues unless you run tight with your points. Even so, because the plan emphasizes mindful eating, the weigh in at the end of the week will tell you if you need to adjust how you're working the plan.

My 2 cents. I like Weight Watchers. My grandmother took off 100 pounds that has stayed off for 20 years with it. Several years ago, I dropped 20 lbs with Weight Watchers at home. And now I've taken off my first 9 pounds doing Weight Watchers online.

2/21/2010 2:42:11 PM

I need to sell pills that give people a sensitive stomach. I'd make millions. Damn, Alli beat me to it.

People always ask me how I stay skinny. If I eat too much fat or sugar it goes straight through. If I eat gluten containing foods I want to die. Most people lack the self control to eat the way I do, they'd rather puke and shit their guts out than eat healthy and that disgusts me.

2/21/2010 4:04:44 PM

I can honestly say that I can eat all the nasty fast food or gluten or anything of this bad shit and not feel any worse than if I eat fresh organic foods.

My waistline sees the effects, but I feel fine and don't throw up or get the shits or any of the horror stories you guys are talking about.

2/21/2010 4:37:22 PM

Wolfmarsh - congrats on your weight loss

Are you working out as well?

2/21/2010 5:44:21 PM

i need to work out

2/21/2010 5:47:15 PM

come to my gym, I'll give you a free PT session and a week pass

2/21/2010 5:51:41 PM

whur is dat?

does it work for skinny dudes?

2/21/2010 5:53:47 PM

Quote :

"Wolfmarsh - congrats on your weight loss Are you working out as well?"

Thanks! This time, something is different (I think its having kids and wanting to be able to do more with them), so I am hoping to go all the way and lose all of my excess weight.

I am doing some small stuff to get my heart rate up, but not full on exercise yet. Right now, if I can work on keeping my muscle mass where it is and focus on doing more daily physical activity (taking the stairs to my office instead of the elevator, parking at the end of the lot, etc..) then I will slowly start adding in some structured working out down the road.

[Edited on February 21, 2010 at 6:09 PM. Reason : .]

2/21/2010 6:08:08 PM

Quote :

"whur is dat? does it work for skinny dudes?"

Please join so I wont be the little guy anymore .

2/21/2010 7:07:10 PM

then you can both take my class together!

2/21/2010 7:15:19 PM

i cant find a workout partner cause im a little guy

i had one in college and its a pain in the ass and embarrassing asking him to take all that weight off everytime

2/21/2010 7:15:42 PM

come workout with me

2/21/2010 7:28:16 PM

how much weight do you work out with? lol

2/21/2010 7:36:14 PM

sidenote: we should have a TWW WW group!

2/21/2010 8:11:20 PM