My girl friend (hopefully) will graduate and pass the nursing exam next spring.

How are jobs and about how much can she be looking to make starting off?

She already has a bachelors degree and her CNA.

4/26/2010 8:26:41 AM

Occupational Outlook Handbook?

http://www.bls.gov/OCO/

4/26/2010 8:28:43 AM

$18-21/hour starting most NC hospitals (from the nurses I know anyway)

4/26/2010 8:37:52 AM

That's a lot lower than I thought it would have been.

Being a COTA seems to pay a lot better.

4/26/2010 8:47:17 AM

they seem to get very regular pay increases though, and if they work on nights or weekends there is an extra $1-3/hour tacked on

4/26/2010 8:54:54 AM

if you want money as a nurse, the route to go is CRNA - median salary in the triangle is like $140k, more than many doctors (pediatricians, family practice, internal medicine, for example)


[Edited on April 26, 2010 at 10:04 AM. Reason : s]

4/26/2010 10:00:20 AM

My girlfriend is planning on going to grad school to get her PhD to be a nurse practioner after graduating with her BSN at UNCW.

The problem is she wants to go to grad school at UNC eventhough there is a perfectly good Nurse Practioner PhD program at UNCW. If she wants to go there fine but their is no way and hell I'm going with her (I think she expects me to move back to Raleigh during her grad school).

4/27/2010 11:22:53 AM

I think nurse practioner is a 2-year program, not a PhD.

4/27/2010 11:37:06 AM

effective 2012 it is a PhD mandatory. Stupid in my opinion. I thought the point of a NP was to fill an intermediate position between nurse and doctor, filling in roles such as primary care. With the PhD requirement, this incentive is eliminated and one may as well just go to med school if they will be spending the time to get a PhD anyway.

4/27/2010 12:28:07 PM

^ source?

Most physicians don't even have PhDs, this makes no sense at all.

[Edited on April 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM. Reason : a]

4/27/2010 12:42:47 PM

why would any of you even entertain any information from a HUR post. this is the same guy who can't even appropriately apply the emphatic statement "no way in hell"...

4/27/2010 12:45:43 PM

sometimes I get HUR and H8R mixed up.

4/27/2010 12:46:36 PM

^^^just tell her to go PA school if that's the case.

4/27/2010 12:47:03 PM

Quote :

"^ source? Most physicians don't even have PhDs, this makes no sense at all. "

When I get back to my desk I will find the source; but the requirement is changing for classes beginning either 2012 or 2013.
I remember my gf talking about it and I read some article on the change. You are right physicians have MD's. My point though
still holds that the time to take to get a PhD in nursing, one may as well go to med school, spend the extra year, and
have the much greater earning potential with their MD.

Quote :

"just tell her to go PA school if that's the case."

She still has not ruled this out. Although she wants to does more “primary” care type stuff independently rather than working on under a doctor in a certain specialty.

Quote :

" why would any of you even entertain any information from a HUR post. this is the same guy who can't even appropriately apply the emphatic statement "no way in hell"... "

[Edited on April 27, 2010 at 1:59 PM. Reason : l]

[Edited on April 27, 2010 at 2:00 PM. Reason : i]

4/27/2010 1:59:42 PM

HUR, my wife is a nurse practitioner, and I believe the year is 2015 for the PhD requirement. I am already pushing her to pursue that, but she is in a quandry about going to med school instead, but that is going to waste a lot of time and money for little monetary gain (yes, doctors make more, but not as much as you'd think).

Quote :

"^^^just tell her to go PA school if that's the case."

And I dont even understand this. PAs are more limited, in many cases, than what nurse practitioners can do. In some states, nurse practitioners can open their own practice without any oversight whatsoever. This isnt a crack on PA's, however. Essentially, NPs and PAs do the same job. They come from a different training philosophy.

[Edited on April 27, 2010 at 2:11 PM. Reason : .]

4/27/2010 2:01:28 PM

Quote :

"$18-21/hour starting most NC hospitals (from the nurses I know anyway) "

pretty much

but for the first couple of years dont count on a steady income of night/weekend shift differentials. Weekend option positions are pretty coveted and they take quite a bit of seniority to move into.

on my floor there is a waiting list to just move to a night shift only schedule.

in a few years she should be prepared to feel the outrage when she finds out that new grads are making more than her.

[Edited on April 27, 2010 at 2:48 PM. Reason : and, new grads are having a hard time finding jobs right now ]

4/27/2010 2:42:43 PM

So if a nurse has a PhD, do you have to address him/her as "Doctor?"

If so, that's gonna be confusing as hell.

4/27/2010 3:03:20 PM

Unfortunately, doctors think they own this term. My wife works with FNPs that have PhDs, they introduce themselves as Doctor So and So, and say that they are an NP.

My wife introduces herself as a Nurse Practitioner, and most of the patients still call her doctor. I am sure PA's have the same experience. So there is already confusion. Her credentials are also displayed on her badge, and obviously would have a PhD beside her name and not an MD. The hospital can't even get it right, and has her as a doctor on most forms/etc.

I suspect when this becomes more common place, there will be some policy to clearly identify PhD NPs from MDs, although I think its moot. Most people won't understand the difference, always expect they are seeing an MD, and don't understand the differences. If my wife only had time to explain, but she doesnt seeing 20+ patients every day.


[Edited on April 27, 2010 at 3:31 PM. Reason : ,.]

4/27/2010 3:24:17 PM

BTW, so not to misrepresent my position...

NPs and PAs should notify the patient they are not MDs if they announce themselve's as Dr. No doubt about it.

However, most MDs dont really have an academic degree. It probably disgusts many academics to have gone through dissertation and get a research degree to be on the same level as an MD. Its no different than a JD, and you don't see many lawyers being pompous enough to call themselves a doctor.

If NPs can't use the title, 'doctor' after they get their PhD, then titles should go away all together, and Medical Doctors, NPs, and PAs should forgo a title, and address patients with their certifications...

"I am Joe Blow, a medical doctor" or "I am Joe Blow, a nurse practitioner". Leave the title out of it, because as we are witnessing, having the title 'Dr.' can mean just about anything.

One other thing... Tremendous amount of research has been done in comparing the quality of healthcare provided by NPs versus doctors in frontline care. NPs score better or no worse in almost all the studies...
http://www.acnpweb.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageID=3321

[Edited on April 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM. Reason : ,]

4/27/2010 4:14:32 PM

i haven't read this whole thread, but my Mom was an RN, now she's whatever is above that, in addition to being certified to do insurance coding, etc.

tell her to work for Duke (idk where you live), whether it be @ the hospital or in a DUAP. The pay is good on her end. Benefits are great as well. I worked in the office of the Sports Med clinic (not nursing though) and it was awesome.

4/27/2010 4:34:35 PM

It is the expectation that if one addresses themselves as "doctor" within a hospital that they are a physician. Having a PhD in astrophysics is a wonderful accomplishment but insisting on being labeled as "doctor" within a hospital because of it is poor judgment.

4/28/2010 12:04:54 PM

And for the record, I'd be in favor of some sort of bridge program for nurses to enter medical school/residency rather than where it looks like things are headed.

4/28/2010 12:07:08 PM

A few corrections to my information.

The DNP program is actually a professional certification program just like the MD program. It is not academic. My confusion came into play because I believe UNC only offers an academic PhD Nurse Practitioning program while Duke offers a DNP program.

^^ Your concerns seem to be based on the issue of inferior treatment with regards to patients seen by doctors, and the studies simply dont show that. The DNP plan attempts to cover much of the same things an MD progression studies, but through a difference focus. I believe they plan to expand the DNP program to progress those with DNPs to the level of MDs in pay and recognition. You can think of it as competition for the medical board and its certification.

Quote :

"Having a PhD in astrophysics is a wonderful accomplishment but insisting on being labeled as "doctor" within a hospital because of it is poor judgment"

And that comparison doesnt make any sense at all. NPs, DNPs all have degrees in and revolving around medicine and patient care. The difference is that NPs report to the Board of Nursing for licensing. The MDs report to the Medical Board for licensing.

In all the studies I can find, the time a patient got talk with an NP was double that of an MD. The studies also show that NPs do a much better job in discussing treatment and medication and actually taking the time to listen to the concerns of the patient. The negatives on NPs were the amount of testing they do. They order more tests on patients than doctors in the test group. Being married to an NP, I can probably guess the reason is more ass covering than anything else. They are under a lot of scrutiny.


I understand the concern, however. This is no ground. The time tested assumptions of an MD being 'the' provider is being reshaped. And as a result, there is going to be a lot of posturing. However, all these 'mid tiers' are a direct result of the medical establishment to address staffing and training concerns over the past decades. There simply isnt enough people getting educated in medicine, the medical establishment doesnt seem to be making it any better, and there have to be some changes.

[Edited on April 28, 2010 at 1:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/28/2010 1:00:02 PM

What it means is that the higher acuity cases are going to get shunted to the physicians.

4/28/2010 2:06:13 PM

Thats actually not the case at all. First of all, my comments are directed towards first line providers... The family doctors, ER, etc... My wife is routinely consulted by doctors, as she routinely consults them. If it is something outside of their area of expertise, it gets sent to a specialist. This is the same for MDs and NPs.

In New York, NPs do not require to have any doctor supervision. They can run their own clinics. In several studies, they found no difference in the quality of care, type of cases seen, or referrals given in direct comparison to clinics ran by MDs.

If you don't believe me, there is plenty of scholarly research available on the link I posted above. You can find most of the journals by googling the title.

[Edited on April 28, 2010 at 2:12 PM. Reason : .]

4/28/2010 2:08:18 PM

That's related to the fact that Cornell was the first program.

Similarly, there are more favorable laws here in NC for PA's due to Duke being the first PA program.

There is conflicting data on this subject.

4/28/2010 2:13:45 PM

I honestly dont know that PAs can really do anything more than NPs can do in north carolina. I think its more perception, because PAs must work with doctors, in direct consultation with doctors, so they tend to work with specialist and do more advanced procedures. Nurse practitioners work more independently and generally stay on the front line. However, with that said, there are lots of NP speciliaities, like cardiology, where they do advanced procedures. Its just less common than PAs.

My wife does everything the doctors do in the ER. She does not work trauma, however. She routinely admits patients to MICU, PICU, etc.

She also does procedures like lumbar punctions, sutchering, and is trained to do trachs and intubations (I am murdering the spellings of these).

[Edited on April 28, 2010 at 2:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/28/2010 2:20:19 PM