http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hNoYuEkTXU3hSsL1qZkDEj5pfEKgD9GIJD1G1

According to the gov. of Az.

I somehow doubt that is true.

Her ridiculous statement seems to oppose the idea that their recent laws are somehow calculated to force the fed. gov. to act.

6/25/2010 8:14:05 PM

[Citation needed]

6/25/2010 8:38:42 PM

^

do some of them do it? sure. do most of them? I doubt it.

6/25/2010 10:03:55 PM

For some reason drug warriors really have a tendency to pull "facts" out of their asses.

6/25/2010 10:32:18 PM

well, to be fair. it's true.

i mean, most black people are thieves. most jews are cheap. most christians are good people. oh, and all asians are smart.

i think we should start taking bets as to who will be the first soap box puppet to come in here and defend her comments. i've already got my user in mind (and it starts with an S)

oh, and bonus points if he exhausts the "ITT, liberals...." meme





also :


[Edited on June 25, 2010 at 10:57 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2010 10:50:48 PM

i would think any group of people coming unchecked and undocumented across the border would have a higher percentage of smuggling illegal items into the county...whether that be drugs, guns, sex slaves, etc...

why would you smuggle illegal stuff through gated and inspected checkpoints when you can hire or threaten a mule?

would it be most? I doubt it. but it is probably a much higher number than those coming in legally.

[Edited on June 25, 2010 at 10:54 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2010 10:52:50 PM

June 25, 2010
Dear Diary,

Today, moron discovered that politicians sometimes employ hyperbole to make a point.

6/25/2010 11:01:32 PM

honestly, this is just brilliant politics. you're coming under fire for xenophobic policy, so you label all illegal immigrants as drug lords hell bent on getting your children addicted to heroin, thereby pushing the idiots on the fence of the policy to support your blind bigotry. bravo arizona, you've outdone yourself yet again.


and it ends with "olinari"

[Edited on June 25, 2010 at 11:06 PM. Reason : fuck the kids, they're gonna smoke pot regardless]

6/25/2010 11:02:47 PM

to think that a politician would use, "think of the children" as a means of promoting their idea...

i'm scandalized!

6/25/2010 11:04:12 PM

So I guess Solinari did one of those "not really defend, but not really repudiate" posts.

6/25/2010 11:13:59 PM

do i still get bonus points? because the diary entry is just a poor mans "ITT" shit.

6/25/2010 11:15:13 PM

Ha

you guys are like an old married couple... you know each others' quirks and kinks.

6/25/2010 11:24:35 PM

It's probably true after they factor in everyone who brings a pack of cigarettes, a bottle of booze or a few asprin tablets. Lies, damn lies and statistics.

6/25/2010 11:35:24 PM

Quote :

" So I guess Solinari did one of those "not really defend, but not really repudiate" posts."

Sort of like you guys when it comes to Palestinian atrocities

6/26/2010 7:01:20 AM

Quote :

"Most illegal immigrants are smuggling drugs"

I doubt it, but that't be great. Drugs are too expensive, so they'd be helping out with lowering the price.
It's the illegals without drugs that we should be stopping at the border.
[/100% serious]

6/26/2010 7:25:18 AM

I agree this comment by the governor was way out of line, but lots of comments by politicians are way out of line. I don't see any reason to get your panties in a wad just because you disagree with her politics.

6/26/2010 9:01:40 AM

Well, there's a couple of different kinds of "out of line." There's embellishing your record a little bit to woo voters, and then there's outright lying to your constituents and to the country in order to get them to support a radical change in policy.

6/27/2010 12:37:11 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/27/mccain-disputes-brewers-claim-illegal-immigrants-smuggling-drugs/
vs
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/06/25/arizona.immigrants.drugs/?fbid=rzkjL-_aRU0

6/27/2010 1:25:39 PM

Legalize all drugs - eliminate smuggling and drug-related violence virtually over night.

6/27/2010 1:28:52 PM

^ doubtful

there's ALWAYS something for people to traffic illegally. Gangsters wouldn't just give up and say "oh well, i guess we'll stop our illegal activity"

6/27/2010 1:30:54 PM

What would they smuggle? The black market drives up prices, which makes it worth the risk for gangsters. If someone can sell a bag of coke for 20,000 USD, it's probably going to seem worth the chance for some people.

6/27/2010 1:33:36 PM

The "invisible hand" works just as well on the black market as the normal market.

They'll find something. Maybe children, or ramp up property crimes, or something. I'm not known for thinking like a criminal, but legalizing drug won't be a silver bullet.

6/27/2010 1:38:13 PM

Quote :

"The "invisible hand" works just as well on the black market as the normal market."

You're exactly right. And, in typical fashion, a black market - where supply is artificially suppressed by some outside force - results in higher prices. Just for instance - a marijuana plant, depending on strain and size, will produce anywhere from 750 to 4000 dollars worth of bud, depending on area/yield/etc. Now, that's one plant. It's a plant that grows naturally, and could be grown in your yard for almost free. Does it make sense that it sells for so much? How much would a single tobacco plant sell for?

Quote :

"They'll find something. Maybe children, or ramp up property crimes, or something. I'm not known for thinking like a criminal, but legalizing drug won't be a silver bullet."

It might not hurt to think like a criminal in this case. Criminals don't wake up and think "you know what, I'm going to break the law today. I don't really care how, as long as someone else is harmed." They think like any other rational, self-interested person. "Hey, I can grow/produce this drug here with virtually no overhead, travel a few hundred miles north, and sell it at a huge profit! I'll be fucking rich!"

If you legalized drugs, these same people would not suddenly say "well, shit...guess it's time to get into human trafficking. Also, I'm going to break some windows." I'm not suggesting that legalizing drugs would solve all immigration and violent crime issues. I'm saying it would eliminate smuggling and drug-related violence - my original point.

By the way, I'm still wondering what would be smuggled into the country if there was no longer a reason to do so with drugs. I don't consider human trafficking to be "smuggling" - it's a crime against a person.

[Edited on June 27, 2010 at 1:54 PM. Reason : ]

6/27/2010 1:51:11 PM

Quote :

"If you legalized drugs, these same people would not suddenly say "well, shit...guess it's time to get into human trafficking. Also, I'm going to break some windows.""

They might. There's an enormous human infrastructure to drug smuggling that's been around for a while. If your primary job training involves sneaking things across borders, and if your opportunities for education are nil, then what the hell else are you going to do? You've got plenty of incentive to find something else to smuggle.

Of course, that only applies to some of the people. The growers might just grow legitimately, the processers might just process legitimately, etc. But the enforcers and the guys who actually moved it across the border don't have jobs that translate into the legitimate world, and if they can, they'll keep doing what they've been doing.

6/27/2010 2:50:08 PM

Quote :

"Of course, that only applies to some of the people. The growers might just grow legitimately, the processers might just process legitimately, etc. But the enforcers and the guys who actually moved it across the border don't have jobs that translate into the legitimate world, and if they can, they'll keep doing what they've been doing. "

Right.

And these are the people perpetrating most of the violence. It's not typically the growers.

And if drugs were legalized, i don't think the small "family" farms would stick around for long. The massive mega factory farms would take over in short order.

6/27/2010 3:00:19 PM

Quote :

"there's ALWAYS something for people to traffic illegally. Gangsters wouldn't just give up and say "oh well, i guess we'll stop our illegal activity"

Quote :

"if they can, they'll keep doing what they've been doing."

lol.... Quit fooling yourselves.
It's supply and demand, DUH!
The demand for drugs is many orders of magnitude greater than the demand for smuggled humans, guns, prostitutes, etc.
I mean, it's not even close.

Quote :

"NOT EVEN CLOSE"

6/27/2010 3:55:54 PM

Quote :

"They might. There's an enormous human infrastructure to drug smuggling that's been around for a while. If your primary job training involves sneaking things across borders, and if your opportunities for education are nil, then what the hell else are you going to do? You've got plenty of incentive to find something else to smuggle."

If you're a professional smuggler, then yeah, maybe you would try to find a similar career initially. But, again, I can't think of anything other than drugs that it would be done with.

Quote :

"Of course, that only applies to some of the people. The growers might just grow legitimately, the processers might just process legitimately, etc. But the enforcers and the guys who actually moved it across the border don't have jobs that translate into the legitimate world, and if they can, they'll keep doing what they've been doing."

Or they'll find something else to do. It might be some other kind of crime. It might be something legal. There's really no way of knowing. We shouldn't continue drug prohibition just because we think there's a possibility that drug traffickers would turn to some other form of crime.

I do think you're on to something with the enforcement thing. There are dozens of state and federal agencies devoted towards enforcement of drug laws and putting a stop to drug trafficking. Those agencies will fight very hard to keep prohibition alive and well, because their livelihood depends on it. "We need the jobs" is never a good reason to keep immoral laws on the books, though.

6/27/2010 4:27:42 PM

God, that tactic is annoying. My point -- as you goddamn well know -- is that the cartel's muscle doesn't really know anything besides busting heads. It's what they know, and if they have the opportunity, they will continue to use that skill.

But anyway, I didn't say we should keep the laws because traffickers would turn to other forms of crime. But it's an equally illegitimate argument that we should get rid of the laws to stop the crime if the crime won't actually stop.

Quote :

"But, again, I can't think of anything other than drugs that it would be done with."

Guns, for one. People, although you insist on drawing a silly distinction there -- sneaking things across borders is sneaking things across borders, far as I'm concerned. And, of course, there's the funny prospect that it can't just be us who legalize drugs. As long as others (in particular, our neighbors) outlaw them, then there will be places to smuggle them.

Of course, I know who I'm arguing with here, so the whole smuggling issue is touchy, because sooner or later I'm afraid I'll hear some version of "If we make everything legal then there won't be any crime."

6/27/2010 11:22:41 PM

Quote :

"People, although you insist on drawing a silly distinction there -- sneaking things across borders is sneaking things across borders, far as I'm concerned."

Yes, but there is a much, much, much greater demand for drugs than for any other market.

6/27/2010 11:31:11 PM

Oh, no doubt the scope of the thing will shrink, but the system is there and I don't think it'll evaporate. Certainly not in a country as fucked up as Mexico.

6/27/2010 11:46:14 PM

As the most current/highest up immigration related thread I figured I'd throw this here:


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/01/immigration.reform.policy/index.html

Quote :

"STORY HIGHLIGHTS *President Obama to discuss immigration reform Thursday *Polls suggest Americans want comprehensive immigration legislation *Expert says Arizona's new law is behind the push by Democrats to get a bill passed"

Quote :

"And with President Obama's push Thursday to get immigration reform passed this year, analysts said the stakes are high even if it's not a top issue facing the country. "We've been trying to do immigration reform steadily for the last five years and on and off for quite a bit longer than that," said Marc Rosenblum, a senior policy analyst at Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan think tank. "I think that voters are impatient -- especially folks who have a real stake in this issue: immigrants and their families and business that employ them." Rosenblum knows the daunting challenge immigration reform faces in Congress. As a fellow in the office of the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, he helped craft legislation during the 2006 immigration debate. The legislation ultimately failed to gain traction. He said Arizona's controversial new immigration law, which many critics liken to racial profiling, has pushed reform to the forefront of Democrats' minds."

It looks like we'll be in the middle of this come election day.

7/1/2010 11:24:36 AM