Quote :

"Growing Number of Prosecutions for Videotaping the Police In early April, state police officers raided Graber's parents' home in Abingdon, Md. They confiscated his camera, computers and external hard drives. Graber was indicted for allegedly violating state wiretap laws by recording the trooper. Arrests such as Graber's are becoming more common along with the proliferation of portable video cameras and cell-phone recorders. Videos of alleged police misconduct have become hot items on the Internet. YouTube still features Graber's encounter along with numerous other witness videos. "The message is clearly, 'Don't criticize the police,'" said David Rocah, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland who is part of Graber's defense team. "With these charges, anyone who would even think to record the police is now justifiably in fear that they will also be criminally charged." "The police have cameras in their cars. I watch cops on TV," Ford said. "I'm very hurt by what happened. A lot of people are being abused by police in the same way." Ford's lawyer, James Green, called videotaping "probably the most effective way to protect citizens against police officers who exaggerate or lie." "Judges and juries want to believe law enforcement," he said. "They want to believe police officers and unless you have credible evidence to contradict police officers, it's often very difficult to get judges or juries to believe the word of a citizen over a police officer." In Palm Beach County, Fla., Greenacres resident Peter Ballance, 63, who has Asperger's syndrome and has to record conversations to help his memory, settled a civil lawsuit for $100,000 last year. In August 2005, police officers tackled and arrested Ballance for refusing to turn off his tape recorder. "You know what," said the officer, according to court documents, "I still don't want that recording device on." "Well, it's on," Ballance replied. "It is a third-degree felony," the cop said. "If you want to push it, you can go to jail for it." "Well, I'm pushing it now," Ballance said. Ballance snapped pictures of the officers. One of the cops delivered a blindside tackle. Ballance had to be treated for injuries and cardiac symptoms at a hospital on the way to the county jail. At the hospital, officers refused to let Ballance use his recorders to communicate with doctors, court papers said. "

You know, we're told that we shouldn't fear police roadblocks..if we're not doing anything illegal. Same thing here. The police should welcome citizens recording them doing their duties in a lawful manner. I will always be suspicious when a public servant doesn't want the public watching them.

In this age of more and more laws being thrust upon us, anything that helps citizens protect themselves from police abuse should be encouraged.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/videotaping-cops-arrest/story?id=11179076

7/20/2010 9:43:14 AM

Anybody surprised that the police are acting like brutes and meat-heads? When are we going to stop these brainless thugs from running wild on us?

7/20/2010 9:55:34 AM

I guess the laws vary from state to state.

I'm pretty certain it's legal in NC (there was a thread recently about this)

Clearly in florida it's not legal to capture video of the police. It's certainly an unjust law.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM. Reason : Fraternal Order of Police: America's largest and most violent gang.]

7/20/2010 9:55:53 AM

Quote :

"Fraternal Order of Police: America's largest and most violent gang."

Quoted for mother-fucking truth.

7/20/2010 9:57:06 AM

Quote :

"Fraternal Order of Police: America's largest and most violent gang"

7/20/2010 9:58:53 AM

LOL at the police haters. you are so predictable in your generalizations.

that said, they should be held accountable like everyone else. video is the easiest way to do that and this is clearly a poor law that bad officers could exploit. the only exception I could see would be in the case of specialized police units like undercover or anti-gang officers that could be targeted by criminals.

Quote :

" You know, we're told that we shouldn't fear police roadblocks..if we're not doing anything illegal. Same thing here. The police should welcome citizens recording them doing their duties in a lawful manner. I will always be suspicious when a public servant doesn't want the public watching them."

agreed.

7/20/2010 10:05:25 AM

Quote :

"LOL at the police haters. you are so predictable in your generalizations."

LOL at people that blindly suckle authority

7/20/2010 10:07:10 AM

^^If they're undercover, and supposedly pretending to be a drug dealer or gang member or whatever, how is joe citizen going to know that it's a cop? how does this blow their cover?

7/20/2010 10:08:43 AM

Yeah who's going to video tape a drug deal

7/20/2010 10:11:26 AM

Quote :

"LOL at people that blindly suckle authority"

clearly you need to work on your ability to read the entire post. further, only an idiot would compare police to real gangs like ms-13, bloods, etc... and be serious about it.

Quote :

"If they're undercover, and supposedly pretending to be a drug dealer or gang member or whatever, how is joe citizen going to know that it's a cop? how does this blow their cover?"

well while they are undercover, you are correct. but they go in and out of being undercover. i have friends who are undercover and they are constantly trying to avoid pictures in various capacities...social networking, pictures, video etc...that are taken of them that would blow their cover in the future. digital images last forever. also, a lot of SWAT teams and anti gang units wear masks to conceal their identity on raids. joe blow citizen videotaping a raid like that, then taping the officers as they pack up and leave the scene could compromise that identity.

that is probably why the law exists but the average street cop should be fair game.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 10:14 AM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 10:13:55 AM

Quote :

"further, only an idiot would compare police to real gangs like ms-13, bloods, etc... and be serious about it. "

Yeah often times police never catch a charge for their murders and robberies

7/20/2010 10:24:34 AM

Quote :

"only an idiot would compare police to real gangs like ms-13, bloods, etc... and be serious about it."

7/20/2010 10:25:35 AM

Hurfy fucking durfy my friends are cops and I love cops

Nothing drives me more crazy than somebody willing to jerk off and defend authority, sorry

"Policeman" is a job. It's a hard job. We shouldn't make it easier by sacrificing everybody's rights, liberties, and safety.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 10:31 AM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 10:30:08 AM

Laws do vary, but if it's a public place, the police have no reasonable expectation of privacy, just as other citizens do not. And they certainly shouldn't be seizing private possessions simply because they're angry.

I'm a law-and-order guy. I support giving law enforcement officers the education, equipment, training, and salaries they need to perform their duties in a professional manner. But I absolutely CANNOT STAND jackbooted thugs with guns and official badges! Incidents like the ones described in the OP should not be tolerated by politicians, high-ranking law enforcement officers, or the public!

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM. Reason : ]

7/20/2010 10:36:15 AM

Alcohol, titties, and taping the cops: three things that bring everybody on TWW together.

7/20/2010 10:50:21 AM

We all agree?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3Lm_gu-ZY

7/20/2010 10:55:13 AM

The story in the original post demonstrates definitively why people should be permitted to and, furthermore, should be advised to, record, in any way possible, any and all interactions with all police officers. Far, far too many police officers are overgrown children with compensation issues. The type of overgrown children who would consider it reasonable to tackle an elderly autistic man who posed no immediate threat. I mean, seriously, WTF.

7/20/2010 10:59:09 AM

-Badge numbers printed in huge numbers on riot gear.

-Reserve no-knock warrants and paramilitary actions for actual violent situations. This type of shit should require the signature of three judges at least.

-Shoulder cameras on cops while on duty. Missing footage should be a dismissible offense.

-A civilian committee to oversee reports of corruption. The police can't be trusted to police themselves, nor can the district attorney be trusted to prosecute them. For that matter, neither can judges. They're all on the same team.

-Close secret federal prisons like the one in Cary.

Any cops that oppose these changes are corrupt.

7/20/2010 12:08:45 PM

^What are you, soft on crime? Don't you want to protect our children from dangerous people? I'm not voting for you this election.

7/20/2010 12:20:07 PM

No worries...when I come to power, I won't need votes.

7/20/2010 12:42:02 PM

death to smc

7/20/2010 1:03:21 PM

Quote :

"Hurfy fucking durfy my friends are cops and I love cops Nothing drives me more crazy than somebody willing to jerk off and defend authority, sorry "Policeman" is a job. It's a hard job. We shouldn't make it easier by sacrificing everybody's rights, liberties, and safety."

so in one breath they are a thoughtless, soulless rabble (gang) wanting nothing more than you rape and murder your daughter in her sleep, and in another breath its a "hard job."

nobody is "jerking off" you tool. i understand there are bad guys out there. i also understand that the vast majority are good people. good people who do a difficult, dangerous job but who should be held accountable. but dont let reason and logic stop you.

7/20/2010 1:03:48 PM

If good cops don't publicly and vehemently condemn the bad ones, then they're bad too. If they don't speak openly about department policies that abuse freedoms, then they are equally to blame. If they participate in a corrupt system, then they are complicit in its sins.

^^A nice death threat is as good as money in the bank...or an enemy in jail. I welcome them.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 1:25 PM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 1:23:13 PM

Quote :

"i also understand that the vast majority are good people. good people who do a difficult, dangerous job but who should be held accountable. but dont let reason and logic stop you."

I think "some" is more of a reasonable assessment than "most".

7/20/2010 5:12:48 PM

do you have any facts to back up your accusations? any statistics suggesting police are more predisposed to criminal activity than the general population?

7/20/2010 6:15:29 PM

you seem to imply most people are good people. let me set the records straight: most people are pieces of shit. most police officers are pieces of shit with authority

7/20/2010 8:34:43 PM

^

^^ Not gonna survey the media for you

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 11:08 PM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 11:07:55 PM

kill everyone

7/20/2010 11:48:55 PM

Quote :

"you seem to imply most people are good people. let me set the records straight: most people are pieces of shit. most police officers are pieces of shit with authority"

well, not a bad point. although, I would argue most people are mostly good; most people do their best and fuck up occasionally.

Quote :

"Not gonna survey the media for you"

didnt think so. further, surveying the media for stories about corrupt cops isnt going to prove your statement correct. i am not denying that corruption exists and even is extreme in some cases. i am disputing the broad brush you are painting with. for your opinion to be so entrenched, i would expect some kind of statistical reference. if you provided such a reference, i may be swayed to rethink my opinion that cops are not like "gangs" as you said.

7/21/2010 8:27:12 AM

Sorry sir I'm going to need 5 sources and a statistical handbook for your obvious statement

My friends, and all, ya know how it goes

7/21/2010 8:39:04 AM

Quote :

"Fraternal Order of Police: America's largest and most violent gang."

Quote :

"Yeah often times police never catch a charge for their murders and robberies"

Quote :

"Anybody surprised that the police are acting like brutes and meat-heads? When are we going to stop these brainless thugs from running wild on us?"

"obvious" truths. please. your opinion only, and an idiotic one at that.

7/21/2010 12:05:26 PM

Yeah man take it from a cop's buddy: cops are a-OK

God you're sheltered

7/21/2010 12:20:00 PM

Dabird, here is my opposing argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH9k8L3oDa4

Please watch that entire video, and let me know what you think.

7/21/2010 12:22:11 PM

obviously cops involved in that type of shit are assholes. also, obviously, any video like that you have to take with a grain of salt because you dont see the entire story. nevertheless, i never said the police or any profession is devoid of bad behavior. i also never said they shouldnt be videotaped or held accountable for their actions. i said i could see in some instances why a law like that would be made. i also am pointing out the ridiculous bullshit spouted here by you and your ilk. i will continue to call you out for it. you are idiots.

what are there? 800,000 police officers nationwide? how many per year get in trouble for corruption? lets arbitrarily say 100 per state per year (some will have more, others less). that is 5000 cops a year getting in trouble. less than 1%. maybe its more? show me a statistic. what percentage of the population gets in trouble every year? compare it that.

show me stats that show police abuse then maybe i would be inclined to be swayed to your opinion. until then, you look like idiots. dont show me bullshit edited video clips as "evidence."

7/21/2010 12:41:37 PM

Quote :

"show me stats that show police abuse then maybe i would be inclined to be swayed to your opinion. until then, you look like idiots. dont show me bullshit edited video clips as "evidence.""

Glad you asked!

The following statistical report is based on information gathered during the first half of 2010.

From January 2010 through June 2010 there were:

-2,541 Unique reports of police misconduct cited.
-3,240 Law enforcement officers cited in recorded police misconduct reports.
-178 Of the law enforcement officers reported were departmental leaders, police chiefs, and sheriffs.
-4,199 Alleged victims of police misconduct associated with these reports.
-124 Fatalities associated with these reports.
-17.9 Law enforcement officers cited in the news for misconduct each day on average.
-$148,512,000 in approximated police misconduct related settlements and judgments paid out in this period.

By projecting this month’s NPMSRP totals out to one year, the following comparisons can be made between the reported police misconduct allegation rate and the reported 2008 general crime rate as published by the FBI and DOJ for 2008:



You can find more information here: http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/?page_id=2793

And also here: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/index.html

And if you completely dismiss this post due to the site title, I will literally taze you!

7/21/2010 12:46:46 PM

^That graphs says cops are angry and horny.

7/21/2010 12:48:21 PM

Quote :

"And also here: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/index.html"

lets use the FBI source...can we agree it is impartial as it is a federal entity? without having much time to look through it, does that site provide statistics of crimes committed by officers? i will also acknowledge that there is probably a relevant percentage of crimes committed by officers that are unreported or 'swept under the rug.'

even still, only using the graph and stats you provided, the graph demonstrates a smaller ratio of officers to general public committing crimes. also, if you double the 3240 officers to expand that over a year, your total is 6480 officers cited for misconduct. lets add 2000 to that as "unreported."

if you use 800,000 officers total, your percentage of officers behaving badly is 1.06%. hardly a gang mentality or "rampant."

i would say that your statistics prove my point.

7/21/2010 1:14:23 PM

No patience today, especially for fascist-loving boot lickers.

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2010 1:30:06 PM

The statistics show that the violent crime rate is almost the same as the general public. The sexual assault rate is greater than the general public.

Is that something not to be concerned about? Aren't the police supposed to be the most upstanding individuals? Shouldn't the rate be much lower? Especially since we trust these people, quite literally, with our lives?

Combine this with the undisputed fact that police serve much, MUCH less sentences for these same crimes than normal citizens, often times serving no time at all. Is that not alarming?

Shouldn't people who are trained and entrusted with that kind of power server harsher sentences for committing crimes? Wouldn't you agree?

And I'm not sure how 1.06% is not rampant. That's more than one in a hundred.

The Raleigh police department has 776 people. That means 8 of them will commit violent crimes, assaults, sexual abuse, or murders. 8 people that you could be pulled over by. Doesn't that worry you?

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 1:31 PM. Reason : ]

7/21/2010 1:30:11 PM

Let's not even mention the constant legalistic harassment of normal, productive citizens.

7/21/2010 1:32:09 PM

In this thread, I agree with God and McDanger.

7/21/2010 1:35:39 PM

Oh I get it. It's ok for the cops to record YOU for CYA needs, but you can't record them for your own CYA.

Fuck that.

7/21/2010 1:36:38 PM

Quote :

"The statistics show that the violent crime rate is almost the same as the general public. The sexual assault rate is greater than the general public. Is that something not to be concerned about? Aren't the police supposed to be the most upstanding individuals? Shouldn't the rate be much lower? Especially since we trust these people, quite literally, with our lives? Combine this with the undisputed fact that police serve much, MUCH less sentences for these same crimes than normal citizens, often times serving no time at all. Is that not alarming? Shouldn't people who are trained and entrusted with that kind of power server harsher sentences for committing crimes? Wouldn't you agree? And I'm not sure how 1.06% is not rampant. That's more than one in a hundred. The Raleigh police department has 776 people. That means 8 of them will commit violent crimes, assaults, sexual abuse, or murders. 8 people that you could be pulled over by. Doesn't that worry you?"

police officers are human. they have flaws. i would hope and it should be the goal that there is zero misconduct, but we both know that is not practical. especially considering the pay rate of officers compared to other jobs and their general education level, which is often high school or community college. i would also hope that their misconduct rates would be way below the normal population because of the trust they are given. so on that point, i agree. it is currently too high and we should work to drop it.

but, my argument stands. the characterization on this thread is way out of bounds. you would be hard pressed to find any profession that has much less than 1% of misconduct. whether it be clergy, politicians, firefighters, doctors, soldiers, engineers, etc...1% is not unreasonable.

like i said though, with the exception of NARCs or anti gang officers, they SHOULD be videotaped and held accountable through whatever means are available. i am not arguing against that.

7/21/2010 1:52:24 PM

Quote :

"The statistics show that the violent crime rate is almost the same as the general public. The sexual assault rate is greater than the general public."

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

When the general population has greater numbers you call it "almost the same". When it's the police that are greater, you say it's greater.

Quote :

"Is that something not to be concerned about? Aren't the police supposed to be the most upstanding individuals? Shouldn't the rate be much lower? Especially since we trust these people, quite literally, with our lives?"

No, police aren't supposed to be the most upstanding, where the fuck did you get that idea? They are human beings, prone to all the same situations and impulses that make any of us commit crimes. They definitely should be held to the same standard of punishment for crimes as we, however, and I definitely agree that we have a problem in this area.

Quote :

"And I'm not sure how 1.06% is not rampant. That's more than one in a hundred. The Raleigh police department has 776 people. That means 8 of them will commit violent crimes, assaults, sexual abuse, or murders. 8 people that you could be pulled over by. Doesn't that worry you?"

I'm not sure where he got the 1.06% number from anyway. You don't need to use any number, you already know what the percentage is because it gave you the numbers for 100k people. The percentage of police officers committing the types of crimes listed is 0.6681%.

That means 5 out of 776. I mean, c'mon. The general population is 0.7638%. Same sample of 776 people means roughly 6 people.

However, you interact with a shitton more non-cops on a given day than you do general population. I'm happy with the numbers being slightly less for cops, but in essence it would be better if the general population was less.

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 1:57 PM. Reason : POlice]

7/21/2010 1:53:27 PM

^^See, here's the thing.

I agree with you that police are human. They make mistakes.

That is not the major problem here.

The major problem here is lack of accountability, culpability, and punishment.

For every crime that a police officer does, he serves less time and receives less punishment. What sort of message does that send?

------------

Quote :

"No, police aren't supposed to be the most upstanding, where the fuck did you get that idea? They are human beings, prone to all the same situations and impulses that make any of us commit crimes. They definitely should be held to the same standard of punishment for crimes as we, however, and I definitely agree that we have a problem in this area."

You don't think that a person with the power to kill you should be held to a higher standard than the average joe?

Does your belief in that extend to other jobs as well like a brain surgeon? Should a brain surgeon be no different from some guy off the street?

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 1:55 PM. Reason : ]

7/21/2010 1:54:08 PM

Quote :

"The major problem here is lack of accountability, culpability, and punishment. For every crime that a police officer does, he serves less time and receives less punishment. What sort of message does that send?"

7/21/2010 1:56:02 PM

Quote :

"You don't think that a person with the power to kill you should be held to a higher standard than the average joe? Does your belief in that extend to other jobs as well like a brain surgeon? Should a brain surgeon be no different from some guy off the street?"

I wouldn't expect brain surgeons to have a lower incidence of crime than any other occupation, no.

Also, the average joe also has the power to kill me. The problem is not that the average joe should be more likely to kill me, it is that they both should be investigated and punished fairly (which ain't happening right now).

[Edited on July 21, 2010 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2010 1:58:13 PM

I'm just gonna laugh at the fascism fans

What else can you do but laugh as the citizenry of this country continues to bend over to bullies

7/21/2010 1:58:36 PM

But wouldn't you expect those who are sworn to uphold the law and protect the citizens of the city, those who have years training in preventing such situations, and those who (supposedly) have an oversight system in place to prevent abuse, to have a much drastically lower rate of crime than the general public?

7/21/2010 2:00:17 PM

they're not sworn to protect the citizens, and even if they were, you shouldn't rely on anyone else for your own protection

7/21/2010 2:03:12 PM