Apparently our favorite Senate candidate from DE doesn't know the 1st Amendment very well and the concept of separation of church and state:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101019/ap_on_el_se/us_delaware_senate

"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

"You actually audibly heard the crowd gasp," Widener University political scientist Wesley Leckrone said after the debate, adding that it raised questions about O'Donnell's grasp of the Constitution.

[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 1:27 PM. Reason : .]

10/19/2010 1:22:42 PM

Yeah but she has an R next to her name and I'd bang her hard, and that's all that really matters.

10/19/2010 1:30:26 PM

What a lovely two party system we have.

10/19/2010 1:31:10 PM

What strikes me is the teabaggers claim to be constitutional advocates and yet one of their high profile candidates seems clueless about its most basic elements.

10/19/2010 1:46:14 PM

I'm agnostic and generally support the concept of separation of church and state. That said, those words are not to be found anywhere in the Constitution, and sometimes the "evangelic atheist" types are guilty of taking an interpretation beyond the prohibitions and protections specified in the 1st Amendment.

In short, the words you quoted could conceivably be a legitimate statement, depending on context.


That said, creationism doesn't belong in science class not so much because of the 1st Amendment, but because there's nothing scientific about it.


Also, in this particular case, looking at things in context, it's safe to say that this bitch is completely retarded.

Quote :

"O'Donnell, a tea party favorite"

That's a shame. For a while, I had hoped that this movement would help bring the GOP back into line, but it seems like it's mostly more of the same.



[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 1:49 PM. Reason : ]

10/19/2010 1:47:52 PM

Tea Partiers are just angry. Most of them don't even know what the fuck they are angry about. So it's no surprise they would latch on to someone like them, i.e., O'Donnell.

10/19/2010 1:48:20 PM

^^
Seperation of church and state comes from the fact our Government can not establish any religion. That clause would be violated if church and state combined. It is there to prevent the theocracy many on the religious right would like to see.

10/19/2010 1:54:13 PM

^^^The gasp-worthy thing is that O'Donnell wasn't aware that the First Amendment barred Congress from making laws respecting establishment of religion.

also keep in mind that the phrase "separation of powers" isn't in the Constitution either, and neither is that "corporate personhood" the wingnuts so revere

[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ^it came from Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists clarifying the Bill of Rights

10/19/2010 1:55:10 PM

you know what's going to happen here though

tea partiers everywhere are going to start actually believing "separation of church and state isn't in the constitution" it's gonna become one of those "obama is a muslim" things that people start actually really truly believing.

10/19/2010 2:09:12 PM

^
Yeah this is a good point along with the birther crap.

10/19/2010 2:11:02 PM

She has no chance at any political office.

She does, however, have a very lucrative career ahead of her as a Fox News pundit, porn parody muse, and Kool-aid brewer. So she won't be going anywhere as far as her opinions being forced down our throats.

10/19/2010 2:21:22 PM

Video for context. OH LAWD.

I realize the phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the constitution, but I think if you watch the video you'll realize that she is repeatedly shocked at and in disbelief of the fact that the first amendment mentions anything of the sort.

At 7:06 in the video:

Quote :

"O'Donnell: Let me just clarify, you're telling me that the separation of church and state is found in the first amendment? Coons: "The government shall make no establishment of religion." O'Donnell: (incredulously) That's in the first amendment... Audience: (laughter)"

The transcript is mine, so feel free to correct it if I'm wrong.

10/19/2010 2:22:43 PM

FTA:

Quote :

"It's one thing to not know the 17th Amendment or some of the others, but most Americans do know the basics of the First Amendment."

ISWYDT, but more like "It's one thing to not know the 19th Amendment or some of the others..."


[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 2:39 PM. Reason : -]

10/19/2010 2:33:17 PM

OK, theDuke866, what is the appropriate amount of prohibitions and protections as specified in the 1st Amendment and intended by the authors of said document? Exactly how much separation between church and state is intended?

The only context in which the statement could be considered legitimate is in an entirely literal context. Yes, that assembly of characters is not found anywhere in the array of characters that comprise the United States Constitution.

10/19/2010 3:09:23 PM

Quote :

"one of their high profile candidates seems clueless about its most basic elements"

In fairness, O'Donnell is high profile only because the media makes her high profile by focusing on her lunacy. The majority of Deleware would have probably supported Castle and Coons has never had less than a double-digit lead over CO'D. She may be a creation of a reactionary Tea Party in DE, but her perpetual presence in the media is because she's an easy and sensational story.

This happened earlier this year with Alvin Greene, but people started to genuinely feel bad about covering the guy so they moved on, and he dissappeared.

10/19/2010 3:09:43 PM

Quote :

"Coons: "The government shall make no establishment of religion." O'Donnell: (incredulously) That's in the first amendment..."

this

how about this: if you don't know what's in the constitution, don't fucking ask your opponent to clarify it in a public debate. Why didn't she just keep her mouth shut?

10/19/2010 3:19:12 PM

^my theory: when the crowd audibly gasps at her utter failure to grasp basic constitutional principles, she thinks they're laughing because she "got" Coons. She looks at the crowd and smiles as if to confirm that they're laughing with her, not at her.

The reason she continues to press it is because she wants to make sure he's caught on camera saying the separation of church and state is found in the First Amendment, which she thinks is wrong.

10/19/2010 3:27:23 PM

^ that sounds like a rather accurate assessment

10/19/2010 3:29:50 PM

^^yea, I think you are right. she has a shit eating grin at that point

10/19/2010 3:36:46 PM

^^^

10/19/2010 3:51:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miwSljJAzqg#t=3m15s

She doesn't know the 14th or 16th.

THE VOICE OF A MOVEMENT, FOLKS.

10/19/2010 3:57:23 PM

yeah imo that's more damaging than the not knowing the 1st amendment. people can nitpick about whether the 1st amendment literally says the words "separation of church and state" or more likely just wash their hands of it completely b/c people will just say it's a partisan attack on somebody who leans toward religious establishment rights, but her supporters and sympathizers can't deny that she just flat out didn't know what the 14th or 16th were about

[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

10/19/2010 4:20:37 PM

OK, because there seems to be some confusion and because her campaign manager is spinning the hell out of this, let's clarify what the issue is:

Coons says "no establishment of religion" is in the 1st amendment.

O'Donnell's very next words are "THAT'S in the first amendment??"


Just so we're clear, this is NOT about the words "separation of church and state."

[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 4:32 PM. Reason : asfasf]

10/19/2010 4:31:49 PM

Quote :

"It's not a fact, it's a theory"

10/19/2010 4:44:21 PM

What? Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and it will have no impact on anyone else. Leave her alone!

[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 4:58 PM. Reason : .]

10/19/2010 4:58:01 PM

Quote :

"In fairness, O'Donnell is high profile only because the media makes her high profile by focusing on her lunacy."

This. Same with Palin, although she is more active nationally.

10/19/2010 5:13:24 PM

Quote :

"Seperation of church and state comes from the fact our Government can not establish any religion. That clause would be violated if church and state combined. It is there to prevent the theocracy many on the religious right would like to see."

No shit.

Quote :

"you know what's going to happen here though tea partiers everywhere are going to start actually believing "separation of church and state isn't in the constitution" it's gonna become one of those "obama is a muslim" things that people start actually really truly believing."

The religious right already believes it, and has for many years. The fact that the literal phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution is not lost upon them, I assure you. I remember hearing this in church several times when I was a kid.

Quote :

"OK, theDuke866, what is the appropriate amount of prohibitions and protections as specified in the 1st Amendment and intended by the authors of said document? Exactly how much separation between church and state is intended? The only context in which the statement could be considered legitimate is in an entirely literal context. "

I completely agree; I was saying that just as there is no room for ignoring parts of what it says, there is no room for going beyond what it says and then appealing to your "1st Amendment Rights".

Come on, dude, since when do libertarians who believe in the rule of law and upholding the Constitution need any lessons on the matter from dirty leftists?

Quote :

"how about this: if you don't know what's in the constitution, don't fucking ask your opponent to clarify it in a public debate."

Even better: if you don't know what's in the Constitution, don't run for the United States fucking Senate. I mean, Jesus. What the fuck?

[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 5:24 PM. Reason : ]

10/19/2010 5:24:04 PM

lol ... the best part is around 2:55 when the crowd laughs and she doesn't realize they're laughing AT her

10/19/2010 6:07:05 PM

Quote :

"The religious right already believes it, and has for many years. The fact that the literal phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution is not lost upon them"

MAYBE, and I'm just spitballing here, but perhaps her staff had her press that question to get Coons on record as saying "Separation of Church and State is in the 1st Amendment". That would have been a killer clip for a 30sec ad and would have played to her base.

10/19/2010 6:49:11 PM

Not sure why that would be a killer clip? The separation of church and state is in the First Amendment--in the Establishment Clause (to protect government from religion) and the Free Exercise Clause (to protect religion from government).

As has already been pointed out in this thread, to say that the lack of the phrase "separation of church and state" somehow means that creationism can be taught in public schools is about as loony as saying that the lack of the phrase "separation of powers" means the Supreme Court can declare war and the President can levy taxes.

10/19/2010 7:50:51 PM

damn what an idiot

10/19/2010 7:56:02 PM

Give her a goddamn break! She graduated from college less than 2 months ago.

10/19/2010 9:15:41 PM

Quote :

"Not sure why that would be a killer clip? The separation of church and state is in the First Amendment--in the Establishment Clause"

Gah! You're using logic. Quit doing that, you'll ruin politics.


My point is, as mentioned before, a lot of "Christian Conservative" voters latch onto the fact that the words aren't exactly in the 1st Amendment. Getting Coons to say that, putting that in a clip, and airing said clip would be a good GOTV ad. I'm not saying it has any merit, but if merit counted for anything in politics half our politicians would be hobos.

10/19/2010 10:53:52 PM

^ This is true. My grandfather brought up "WHERE does it say 'Seperation of Church and State?'" I wanted to preserve the peace, so I let it go. I wanted to basically tell him that it's nothing more than a paraphrase of what's said in the first amendment.

10/20/2010 12:14:35 AM

I don't understand the balls on people like O'Donnell.

She's worse than the Soap Box.

I'm a blathering idiot with a bit of a personality problem, and I could do this better than her.

WTF, Tea Party?

[Edited on October 20, 2010 at 12:28 AM. Reason : Or "blithering" if you prefer that.]

10/20/2010 12:24:07 AM

While "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" and the phrase "separation of church and state" are generally considered synonymous, the latter is much less descriptive and more restrictive if you consider the denotation. That's another argument altogether though.

This lady sure is dumb. I guess appealing to the lowest common denominator of the general public is not necessarily a terrible political strategy, but it sure makes me hate our political system that much more.

The most offensive thing about O'Donnell is the painful lack of restraint she has historically shown when it comes to her own ignorance and logic. Most stupid people running for public office at least know when to shut up.

At least no one has defended her yet in this thread. It's good to know I'm not completely surrounded by idiots while walking the streets.

Thanks, TWW.

10/20/2010 12:39:58 AM

^^^actually it's even broader, it's a summary of parts of the First Amendment and Article VI, and it would be even more powerful if you noted that the phrase came from one of the authors of the Constitution, Thomas Jefferson, while explaining it in a letter to the Danbury Baptists

10/20/2010 12:41:59 AM

^ It wouldn't be more powerful at all to say any of that, as I simply wasn't going to get into a political discussion with a near 80 year old man who takes the word of Glenn Beck as gospel.

10/20/2010 2:24:49 AM

What's funny to me is that if you hate the phrase "separation of church and state," you have to start hating on Thomas Jefferson since he coined it. Which is exactly what some conservatives have started doing. facepalm

10/20/2010 5:52:16 AM

what a dumb cunt

10/20/2010 7:03:09 AM

Quote :

"I don't understand the balls on people like O'Donnell."

Clearly you don't understand female anatomy either.




zing!

10/20/2010 8:11:28 AM

From the article:

Quote :

"The First Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The phrase "separation of church and state" is usually traced to President Thomas Jefferson. In a letter in 1802, he referred to the First Amendment and said that it built "a wall of separation between Church & State.""

10/20/2010 9:05:03 AM

Jefferson weeps for his party.

10/20/2010 9:10:12 AM

^ the democrats? because the original republicans were much more like the dems of today than they are like the modern GOP

10/20/2010 10:17:52 AM

nah. jefferson was very anti-fed and very much a strict constitutionalist. Thats pretty much the opposite of the modern democratic party. its also the opposite of the modern gop, even though they like to brand themselves as anti-fed.

10/20/2010 10:31:24 AM

AHA, quagmire02 is worse than O'Donnell.

And he even had Google at his immediate disposal.

10/20/2010 10:44:48 AM

^^ To be fair, it's a lot easier to be a strict constitutionalist when your bros wrote the damn thing like a week ago.

10/20/2010 11:31:23 AM

what do you guys care anyways, its not like she has a chance in hell of winning

10/20/2010 12:35:59 PM

^
She would, if things like this weren't reported on.

10/20/2010 12:41:00 PM

no, even before this she was still getting killed in every poll

10/20/2010 12:43:32 PM