I don't care about the blunt language. It needs to be said. These people are not putting Americans' best interests at heart and it's really starting to piss me off.

Warren Buffett on American taxes


http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2010/10/05/f_mpw_buffett_taxes.fortune/

Republicans stalling efforts to extend tax cuts in order to battle for the richest 2% of Americans.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/01/5559969-gop-to-block-all-bills-until-tax-cuts-are-addressed
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/01/5561324-gop-upset-with-dem-effort-to-extend-only-middle-class-tax-cuts?ocid=twitter

I'm not too hot on the Democrats. I think they're weak and ineffective. But when the second richest guy in the country says he's not getting taxed enough and that he gets taxed less than anyone who works under him, we need to fucking listen. There is something fundamentally flawed there. Republicans need to get their heads out of their asses and get some fucking problems fixed. They're taking us backwards.

12/1/2010 7:08:56 PM

remind again who has had an absolute majority over the past 2 years?

please.

almost 50% of wage earners in this country already pay ZERO taxes. I guess that isnt good enough?

12/1/2010 7:18:29 PM

Did you even watch the videos? Did you even fucking watch it or are you just spouting your same stupid dumb-as-fuck talking points over and over again? Pull your underdeveloped bird brain out of the sand and see that if we don't change course soon we're gonna be royally fucked even worse than we are now. We need to cut spending and raise revenue and do it quickly.

THE FUCKING RICHEST DUDE IN AMERICA JUST SAID HE DOESN'T PAY ENOUGH TAXES!!!!!!! What the FUCK is wrong with you if you don't listen to him?

12/1/2010 7:23:15 PM

You unknowingly support the continuation of the tax code as it exists. This system was set up by the rich for the rich, and it still operates as it was designed to operate. American liberals advocate raising the tax rates on the rich, not understanding that they will still have the resources to hire a team of accountants, and as a result, be more equipped to offload their tax burden than the average citizen.

Instead of going into a partisan-minded frenzy, you should be looking for a way to greatly simplify the tax code. The income tax is too complicated. There are so many loop holes and write offs that you basically need to be trained in order to navigate the tax code. This is not the way it should be. Anyone with basic reading skills should be able to see what the tax laws are. We'd be better off having a flat rate consumption tax, with higher rates on luxury goods, and lower rates on basic commodities.

12/1/2010 7:34:02 PM

Quote :

"remind again who has had an absolute majority over the past 2 years?"

It wasn't absolute, and it's not that amazing that they didn't get much done in two years with republicans doing their best to slow everything down.

Quote :

"almost 50% of wage earners in this country already pay ZERO taxes."

First off the urban legend/talking point is "pay no INCOME taxes", secondly, it's not even true.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/02/24/the-50-percent-pay-no-tax-fraud-part-ii/

12/1/2010 7:36:09 PM

yes i meant income tax and it is basically true

top 20% of wage earners pay 69% of all taxes
middle 60% of wage earners pay 29%
bottom 20% of wage earners pay .8%

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/15/pf/taxes/who_pays_most_least/

further:

Quote :

"Republicans shouldn't be suckered into raising taxes on anyone, especially not on small business job creators. The U.S. corporate tax rate of 39% (a combination of state average and federal rates) is already about 15 percentage points above the international average, and for the first time in a generation the personal rate of 41% would rise above the average of our overseas rivals. That's all before the 3.8% surtax on investment income arrives in 2013, courtesy of ObamaCare."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703326204575616843991237032.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

I am tired of hearing you and all of your ilk bitch about the evil rich people. its fucking annoying. most of the "rich" you refer to are small business owners who pay enough.

but you are right, we have to cut spending and raise revenue.

ps...if Warren or Bill want to open their checkbooks some more, fine. why should I take their opinions as gospel, when they would pay more taxes if they didnt hide all of their income in trusts?

12/1/2010 8:55:20 PM

Quote :

"American liberals advocate raising the tax rates on the rich, not understanding that they will still have the resources to hire a team of accountants, and as a result, be more equipped to offload their tax burden than the average citizen."

Even taking that into account, higher taxes leads to more tax revenue from them, at least at the unusually low rates we currently have; that secondary effect is still outweighed by the primary effect.

12/1/2010 9:07:19 PM

Quote :

"almost 50% of wage earners in this country already pay ZERO taxes. I guess that isnt good enough? "

LIes, damned lies, and statistics...

This is because the lower quintiles have been getting poorer and poorer over the years, not because the gov. is soo generous to those lower 50%. The solution to this problem isn't to raise the taxes on the low end. It's to bring those low end into the middle/high end in other ways.

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 9:37 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2010 9:09:24 PM

The problem with that 50% statistic is it keeps getting bandied about by the talk radio Republicans in such a way that one is lead to believe that has been the status quo for a very long time. The reality is, that number was in the 25% range before the economy blew up and is probably trending down.

Quote :

"I am tired of hearing you and all of your ilk bitch about the evil rich people. its fucking annoying. most of the "rich" you refer to are small business owners who pay enough. "

Another fun talk radio Republican talking point without any real meaning. Why didn't you mention if we raise their taxes they won't hire people, completely ignoring the idea that if they actually hire people, they will lower their overall profit (unless that worker is immediately productive) thus lowering their taxable income.

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 9:36 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 9:39 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2010 9:35:27 PM

Why do they have such dreadfully low IQ's?

12/1/2010 9:39:54 PM

at least this is a mature, insightful and well-articulated discussion.

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 10:12 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2010 10:12:15 PM

Quote :

"THE FUCKING RICHEST DUDE IN AMERICA JUST SAID HE DOESN'T PAY ENOUGH TAXES!!!!!!!"

THEN WHY DOESN'T HE WRITE A CHECK AND PAY WHAT HE THINKS HE SHOULD? Seriously... What the fuck is stopping him from doing that? Really, it's not necessary to jack up the tax rates, Warren. You can do it yourself! Just open up that checkbook and write away! That is, if you can pry yourself away from your lawyers who are helping you avoid taxes long enough to do so.

12/1/2010 10:20:42 PM

team effort d00d

ftr idk whether he has set up a foundation like the Gates family, but I imagine he will someday, it's the way of many a multi-billionaire

12/1/2010 10:22:27 PM

really? he'll "eventually" set up a foundation? How long has a been a bajillionaire? How long did it take Bill Gates to set up his foundation after he became a bajillionaire? Yeah...

"Team effort" is bullshit. How about he practice what he preaches, and then maybe he can expect other people to follow his lead. He wants to pay more taxes? GREAT! Open the checkbook. Until then, shut the fuck up!

12/1/2010 10:27:06 PM

^^^ That simply has no bearing on the discussion.


[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 10:28 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 10:32 PM. Reason : eh]

12/1/2010 10:27:24 PM

It absolutely does. If he thinks he should be taxed more, then why the fuck isn't he voluntarily paying more already? No, the fact is that he wants the rates jacked up because it protects him even more. Others trying to get rich will have to spend more in lawyers and accountants to be a threat to him, while he can just pay a pittance to his to do his dirty work for him.

Quote :

"Christ, are you being this obtuse on purpose? When he says "he", he really means Berkshire, which is beholden to shareholders. And I'll assure you they don't want to pay more taxes."

I won't let you weasel out of that gem of a quote, dude.
and hey, if he wants his corporation to pay more, that's just fucking PROOF that he is playing the ol' game of having the government knock of his competitors for him. The old "barriers to entry" gig. Even still, if he thinks berkshire should pay more, then certainly as the controlling stake in the company he can, again, just order the company to write a check. NOTHING is stopping him.

I mean shit, just look at his stated "salary" of 100k. You know why it's 100k? Because he knows that if he is paid straight up he'll have to pay more. Why doesn't he change that? That's right, because he doesn't fucking want to. He doesn't want to pay more taxes... He wants YOU to pay more taxes.

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 10:33 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2010 10:29:22 PM

Quote :

"then why the fuck isn't he voluntarily paying more already?"

Because whether he volunteers to pay more or not doesn't do anything about the broader discussion of tax rates. All it would do is show him to be putting his money where his mouth is, what the fuck will that do for getting Congress to raise taxes? Fucking dick all.

Quote :

"No, the fact is that he wants the rates jacked up because it protects him even more. Others trying to get rich will have to spend more in lawyers and accountants to be a threat to him, while he can just pay a pittance to his to do his dirty work for him."

What?! What fantasy land blog did you read this from, because I know you didn't cook this up in your own skull, as retarded as it may be?

Quote :

"I won't let you weasel out of that gem of a quote, dude."

A gem? Are you kidding? A made a comment before watching that particular clip. It was in error, I deleted it. You can leave your rebuttal to an erroneous withdrawn comment if you like, no skin off my back.

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 10:36 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2010 10:35:20 PM

Quote :

""Team effort" is bullshit."

are you just referring to warren buffet?

cause a good portion of American success has been due to people coming together and making things work

it's the dichotomy that we live with and preach as a nation... the notion of individual success and freedom, while promoting the idea of America as a whole forming Voltron and overcoming obstacles

12/1/2010 10:36:20 PM

You know, I read somewhere that at the age of 13 Buffett filed his first tax return with a $35 deduction for his bicycle.

Hypocrite.

12/1/2010 10:39:45 PM

Quote :

"t's the dichotomy that we live with and preach as a nation... the notion of individual success and freedom, while promoting the idea of America as a whole forming Voltron and overcoming obstacles"

LOL

If it's possible to be 100% in posting quality, marko is it

12/1/2010 10:39:48 PM

it's nothing groundbreaking at all

the flag itself is riddled with that sort of symbolism

and then we build monuments dedicated to single persons and crowd around them in unity

[Edited on December 1, 2010 at 10:43 PM. Reason : persons not people]

12/1/2010 10:42:47 PM

Quote :

"Because whether he volunteers to pay more or not doesn't do anything about the broader discussion of tax rates. All it would do is show him to be putting his money where his mouth is, what the fuck will that do for getting Congress to raise taxes? Fucking dick all."

It would certainly give him some credibility when he says that the rich should pay more taxes, that's for sure. If he is really worried that the US gov't isn't getting enough money, then he could start with himself. Hell, he could change his absurd contract so that he's not hiding so much of his money. He's got $46b dollar bux. He's a rich dude, so certainly him giving a bunch of his money to the gov't would go a decent way towards helping things, don't you think? It's even more fucking laughable when he is saying how crazy it is that people well below him pay more, when he has specifically made it so that he pays so little taxes!

Quote :

"What?! What fantasy land blog did you read this from, because I know you didn't cook this up in your own skull, as retarded as it may be?"

Maybe because that's just how it is? The wealthy have ALWAYS used gov't to protect their money. Why the fuck should it be any different now? Corporations do it, you would admit. Why the fuck wouldn't people, too?

Quote :

"cause a good portion of American success has been due to people coming together and making things work"

There may be no "I" in team, but when a guy is saying "hey, we all need to go this way!" and then walks in the opposite direction, I take note.

12/1/2010 10:48:44 PM

take note and have fun

the founders set up a hard-ass experiment... one, that as long as human nature has its way, is almost impossible to achieve

they had the good fortune of writing some awesome-ass flexible documents and not having to wait around to see it fulfilled

but still, we try to persevere in an idea called America

12/1/2010 10:58:06 PM

ugh marko why don't you move to China already you fucking commie

12/1/2010 11:02:08 PM

Quote :

"Another fun talk radio Republican talking point without any real meaning. Why didn't you mention if we raise their taxes they won't hire people, completely ignoring the idea that if they actually hire people, they will lower their overall profit (unless that worker is immediately productive) thus lowering their taxable income."

I am a small business owner....are you?

Have you considered the taxes I would have to pay on a new employee not related to my profit...in addition to all of the other added expenses that come with a new employee? Additional higher taxes is just another add to the pile. It is a cumulative effect...in addition to the huge checks I cut every quarter to Uncle Sam and Aunt Bev.

12/1/2010 11:15:34 PM

just because marko gives any credence at all to collective action doesn't mean he thinks all property should be collectively owned, as in a communist society

12/1/2010 11:17:48 PM

Quote :

"ftr idk whether he has set up a foundation like the Gates family, but I imagine he will someday, it's the way of many a multi-billionaire"

Gates is pretty much his charity outlet. He just pours money into the Gates foundation largely in lieu of disseminating it himself.

12/1/2010 11:34:31 PM

Quote :

"I am a small business owner....are you? Have you considered the taxes I would have to pay on a new employee not related to my profit...in addition to all of the other added expenses that come with a new employee? Additional higher taxes is just another add to the pile. It is a cumulative effect...in addition to the huge checks I cut every quarter to Uncle Sam and Aunt Bev. "

Nothing you said here justifies keeping all of the Bush tax cuts intact. You're discussing an entirely different issue than what this thread is about.

12/1/2010 11:47:20 PM

Quote :

"Have you considered the taxes I would have to pay on a new employee not related to my profit..."

Can you not write that off as a business expense, which lowers your taxable income?

12/2/2010 12:23:37 AM

Quote :

"Even taking that into account, higher taxes leads to more tax revenue from them, at least at the unusually low rates we currently have; that secondary effect is still outweighed by the primary effect."

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I'm saying that the current tax laws are unjust, though. The complexity of the tax code is, in itself, a regressive tax, because it weighs more heavily upon the lower and middle classes that cannot afford to navigate it or learn to navigate it. It's very invasive, too. A consumption tax solves all of these problems, and could be implemented without too much trouble or manpower. We could lay off quite a few government workers, get rid of the IRS, and we could get rid of industries that exist only because of the income tax, shifting those workers to productive jobs. It really is a no brainer.

12/2/2010 12:35:16 AM

Quote :

"I am a small business owner....are you? "

Funny, you're implying some sort of innate knowledge from being a small business owner when

1) You started your own business because you didn't like taking free money (brilliant business decision!)
and
2) Everything you said following that quote implies you aren't understanding the discussion about taxes and small business owners.

Quote :

"Have you considered the taxes I would have to pay on a new employee not related to my profit.."

Why would we even be talking about your profit if you were continuing to fully invest the proceeds of the company back into the company? You'd do this aiming for the day when you stop growing and just start loving that 1 million per year you're profiting, at which point you'll promptly point out that you're a small business owner and there is no way you can hire employees if the government is taxing you more.

Quote :

"It would certainly give him some credibility when he says that the rich should pay more taxes, that's for sure."

What does a donation to the US treasury have to do with following the law and paying the current taxes as required by law? Nothing. He doesn't need any more credibility. If Uncle Sam raises cap gains to 25% and he starts hiring CPAs and getting creative to avoid taxes, then you can call him a hypocrite.

12/2/2010 7:14:51 AM

Quote :

"You unknowingly support the continuation of the tax code as it exists. This system was set up by the rich for the rich, and it still operates as it was designed to operate. American liberals advocate raising the tax rates on the rich, not understanding that they will still have the resources to hire a team of accountants, and as a result, be more equipped to offload their tax burden than the average citizen. "

Great point. The person who really gets screwed in the tax system are Single working and lower middle class americans, then
really screwed over are the HENRIES (High Earning Not Rich Something Something) of the professional class. People in the
old money category can afford to higher a team of accountants and financial advisors to shelter their taxes. Those with
huge families in the working and lower class segments have near 0% federal tax liability thanks to crying democrats.

Quote :

"Instead of going into a partisan-minded frenzy, you should be looking for a way to greatly simplify the tax code. The income tax is too complicated. There are so many loop holes and write offs that you basically need to be trained in order to navigate the tax code"

Agree, I just think a major catalyst is needed to really push congress to implement a "fair tax" system. Not sure
how this will happen.

12/2/2010 8:43:46 AM

Quote :

"THE FUCKING RICHEST DUDE IN AMERICA JUST SAID HE DOESN'T PAY ENOUGH TAXES!!!!!!! What the FUCK is wrong with you if you don't listen to him?"

Ha. Well put?

Also, SHIT ASS COCK.

12/2/2010 9:01:58 AM

Quote :

"THE FUCKING RICHEST DUDE IN AMERICA JUST SAID HE DOESN'T PAY ENOUGH TAXES!!!!!!! What the FUCK is wrong with you if you don't listen to him?""

And there is nothing keeping him from paying more if he feels this strongly about it. The IRS wont send his check back.

Doesnt buffet do this shit every couple years just to stir up a new batch of college age kids?

12/2/2010 9:19:16 AM

Buffett's been saying that for years. And he has something of a point. But it's hilarious that people like IMStoned demand that we bleed the rich while simultaneously demanding that we uncritically obey their advice.

12/2/2010 9:30:28 AM

A point that I think more can rally around and I think it's more the point that Buffett was trying to make:

Even if you don't think the ultra-rich should be paying more in taxes, They should be paying atleast the same percentage of their income as everyone else (and I think a lot of us would agree they should be paying a higher percentage). You have to admit that there is something backwards about a secretary paying 30% of her income and buffet only paying 17% of his.


The point being that our tax code, as is, is basically rigged for the ultra-rich with a substantial burden placed on those of us that are normal.


Now whether you believe we should raise tax rates on the rich so that they are in line with normal people or you think we should cut taxes on normal people so that their taxes are in line with the rich is, of course, highly debatable.

but the idea that he should just "pay more if he wants to" is kinda moot when you look at it from this perspective. It's not the idea that the ultra rich should have to pay more in taxes than they are currently paying (as in the total dollar amount) It's the idea that, at the very least, they should be paying the same percentage of their income as the rest of us.

12/2/2010 9:52:19 AM

Quote :

"Funny, you're implying some sort of innate knowledge from being a small business owner when"

No, I was asking if you, or anyone else here had the same frame of reference.

The dispute on the effect of the tax cuts on small business comes from the inability to determine, solely through tax returns, if that return is from a "small" or "large" business. The three most popular types of small businesses - partnerships, sole proprietorships and S corporations - allow you to report income on your personal tax return instead of a corporate one....obviously a beneficial tactic.

The GOP says it will effect 50% of small business. The Dems say much less, like ~2% - the reality is that number is likely somewhere in the middle...the number of truly effected small businesses....which grow most of the jobs in our country. Why raise their taxes? why not lower their taxes so they can grow? so again, why add to their cumulative costs?

The point about increasing revenue is a good one, which I agree. If that has to be done via tax, it should be applied to EVERYONE. not just the "evil" rich people. THAT is the disagreement.

12/2/2010 9:59:16 AM

Quote :

"THEN WHY DOESN'T HE WRITE A CHECK AND PAY WHAT HE THINKS HE SHOULD? Seriously... What the fuck is stopping him from doing that? Really, it's not necessary to jack up the tax rates, Warren. You can do it yourself! Just open up that checkbook and write away! That is, if you can pry yourself away from your lawyers who are helping you avoid taxes long enough to do so."

Quote :

"And there is nothing keeping him from paying more if he feels this strongly about it. The IRS wont send his check back."

This.

[Edited on December 2, 2010 at 10:53 AM. Reason : ]

12/2/2010 10:27:36 AM

Quote :

"THEN WHY DOESN'T HE WRITE A CHECK AND PAY WHAT HE THINKS HE SHOULD? Seriously... What the fuck is stopping him from doing that? Really, it's not necessary to jack up the tax rates, Warren. You can do it yourself! Just open up that checkbook and write away! That is, if you can pry yourself away from your lawyers who are helping you avoid taxes long enough to do so."

Quote :

"And there is nothing keeping him from paying more if he feels this strongly about it. The IRS wont send his check back."

Does this count?

Quote :

"In June 2006, he announced a plan to give away his fortune to charity, with 83% of it going to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.[101] He pledged about the equivalent of 10 million Berkshire Hathaway Class B shares to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (worth approximately US$30.7 billion as of 23 June 2006),[102] making it the largest charitable donation in history, and Buffett one of the leaders of philanthrocapitalism.[103] The foundation will receive 5% of the total donation on an annualised basis each July, beginning in 2006. (Significantly, however, the pledge is conditional upon the foundation's giving away each year, beginning in 2009, an amount that is at least equal to the value of the entire previous year's gift from Buffett, in addition to 5% of the foundation's net assets.) Buffett also will join the board of directors of the Gates Foundation, although he does not plan to be actively involved in the foundation's investments."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffet#Philanthropy

[Edited on December 2, 2010 at 1:55 PM. Reason : quote tag]

12/2/2010 1:54:52 PM

^ That's only part of it. In addition to his own promise to donate his fortune, he has personally been making calls and getting other billionaires to pledge half their net worth to charity when the pass through http://givingpledge.org/#enter

Warren Buffett would be the richest man in the world if he hadn't given away so much of his wealth. He's the model philanthropist. He has no need for more money. He simply creates wealth so that he can give it away. aaronburro, on the other hand, has shown how uninformed he is itt.

[Edited on December 2, 2010 at 3:32 PM. Reason : s]

12/2/2010 3:30:44 PM

if anything, the gates foundation is an example of why these people shouldn't be taxed more.

If the fed got that money it would go to banks, healthcare companies, bad car makers, and weapons manufacturers.

12/2/2010 3:34:40 PM

Him becoming a poster child for their party is a libertarian's dream come true.

[Edited on December 2, 2010 at 4:20 PM. Reason : l]

12/2/2010 4:19:53 PM

Quote :

"yes i meant income tax and it is basically true top 20% of wage earners pay 69% of all taxes middle 60% of wage earners pay 29% bottom 20% of wage earners pay .8%"

What in the hell does that prove? If anything it only shows the disparity between the two and a huge wealth gap.

Quote :

"really? he'll "eventually" set up a foundation? How long has a been a bajillionaire? How long did it take Bill Gates to set up his foundation after he became a bajillionaire? Yeah..."

Are you retarded? Do you not even glance at the news every once and a while? What bothers me so much is not that you missed a big event that was all over the news just last year about Buffet and Gates and the 40 billionaires, but it's that you didn't even bother to do a tiny bit of research before making yourself out to be a fool.

12/2/2010 5:21:17 PM

Quote :

"Can you not write that off as a business expense, which lowers your taxable income?"

If the expense is greater than the tax he would have paid without it, then the point is moot.

Quote :

"What does a donation to the US treasury have to do with following the law and paying the current taxes as required by law?"

Because he's saying he needs to be taxed more. Well, he doesn't need a law to make him pay more taxes. A tax is essentially a payment to the gov't. If he wants to pay more to the gov't, he can do so at any point in time.

Quote :

"If Uncle Sam raises cap gains to 25% and he starts hiring CPAs and getting creative to avoid taxes, then you can call him a hypocrite."

He's already a hypocrite with his "$100k" salary. And you know damned good and well why he only accepts 100k as a "salary".

Quote :

"You have to admit that there is something backwards about a secretary paying 30% of her income and buffet only paying 17% of his. "

Yep. it's pretty nasty that buffett is complaining about it when he intentionally set up his pay to accomplish just such a feat.

Quote :

"Are you retarded? Do you not even glance at the news every once and a while?"

I know exactly what you are talking about. What I was pointing out was how long it took him to do so when compared to Gates. Are YOU that retarded? apparently so

12/2/2010 5:43:55 PM

Your statement clearly indicated that you were unaware of Buffet's philanthropy.

12/2/2010 6:59:50 PM

riiiiiight

12/2/2010 7:05:45 PM

Quote :

"Because he's saying he needs to be taxed more. Well, he doesn't need a law to make him pay more taxes. A tax is essentially a payment to the gov't. If he wants to pay more to the gov't, he can do so at any point in time. "

Jesus H. Christ. He is saying that all rich folks should be paying higher tax rates. Him making a donation isn't going to do shit to persuade Congress to raise the rates.

Quote :

"He's already a hypocrite with his "$100k" salary. And you know damned good and well why he only accepts 100k as a "salary"."

We're talking about a guy that still drives a shitter of a car and lives in the same home he bought over half a century ago, I think it's pretty clear the whole game of keeping as much of your money that the law allows is more important than some hollow example of him making us believe that he is in fact serious about the rich paying higher tax rates.

12/2/2010 9:01:11 PM

If we replaced income taxes with wealth taxes, Warren Buffett would find himself paying a lot more in taxes. Everyone walks away happy.

12/4/2010 9:58:08 AM

^

12/4/2010 10:01:49 AM

Quote :

"if anything, the gates foundation is an example of why these people shouldn't be taxed more. If the fed got that money it would go to banks, healthcare companies, bad car makers, and weapons manufacturers. "

yep

12/4/2010 10:13:23 AM