TLDR at the bottom

About 45 minutes after I got home from work (7:15), they're at my door banging and asking if I go to church and whether I believe in God. Now, I'm not the type who gives a shit about what you believe in, but it just pisses me off when people try and push their shit onto me.

And it further pisses me off when they try and use fear to push their shit onto me. Dude was like:

"You're young, you see all the young people dying in car crashes, that could be you. Where do you see yourself spending all eternity? Do you know what eternity is? Where do you see yourself when you're dead."

He would have a damn aneurysm if I told him I see it a lot like sleeping. I don't see shit, I don't hear shit, I don't feel shit. It's nothing. I understand if his undeveloped psyche can't handle the thought of the afterlife being nothing, as it would mean that our lives aren't for anything. He was instantly going to the fear tactic and offering me an explanation of how great death will be.

Then he moved into "science." He was like:

"We must've come from God as humans can't create somethin' as complex as a human. We don't even understand how this works. We can't create this. You think we can create a nervous system? We can't. It must be God who did all of this. It's the only explanation that makes sense."

Meanwhile, I'm like . I really wanted point out the fallacies in his logic (who said anything about humans creating humans (I don't mean reproduction, I mean physically building a human)? Why couldn't we have evolved from a single celled organism into a multi-celled organism? During the big bang, why couldn't all planets have the necessary building blocks of life, whereas most of them just didn't luck out in being placed within a region in their solar system where life could be created?). They were driving me fucking crazy.

And then towards the end, he was getting into fire and brimstone and all that shit, and how I had to be "saved" to go to heaven. Sorry, if I have to sell my "soul" to your little cult just so I could go to some made up fantasy land, I don't want any part of it.

And what was funny to me, was he kept bringing up that it was "luck" that he would "find" me to give me the message of God and what not. It must have been luck that he had a pocket full of little flyers with information regarding the Baptist Church on it. I lucked out and he gave me two flyers.

I'm wondering what fucker told this church about me. It's a small town, and I only know like 3 or so people who live in it (3 to many, I know...).

I don't care if you Christians want to have your imaginary friends, eat up your book of tales as fact, and march to the beat of a cult leader. It's your choice. Just leave me the fuck alone. I'm not interested in your kool aid.

TLDR: Came home from work, harassed by Baptists trying to get me to go to their church. They tried scaring me, making me think it was a miracle, and trying to make me believe in miracles. Bunch of dumb shit. Christians, leave me the fuck alone. I don't care about your dumb beliefs.

[Edited on February 1, 2011 at 11:45 PM. Reason : TLDR]

2/1/2011 11:43:34 PM

Quote :

"I understand if his undeveloped psyche can't handle the thought of the afterlife being nothing,"

It doesn't really make sense for there to be nothing nothing nothing before you were born... and then there was "something" and then there is nothing nothing nothing again.

2/1/2011 11:46:04 PM

I had some guy knock on my door one time and give me a flyer. He just told me I should join them on Sunday and left.

Maybe he saw that I wasn't white, and didn't want to bother?

^ it makes equal sense to anything else, given the current information we have.

[Edited on February 1, 2011 at 11:47 PM. Reason : ]

2/1/2011 11:46:54 PM

tl;dr

2/1/2011 11:47:27 PM

Can't blame them for doing what their religion tells them to do.

Its the Christians that sit in church playing politics who never invite anyone to church that you should be pissed at

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message

2/1/2011 11:48:33 PM

Quote :

"it makes equal sense to anything else, given the current information we have."

It makes all the sense and none of the sense all at the same time.


Perhaps the world is what YOU shape it to be with your imagination.

Remember, you are a creator.

Everytime you paint a picture or build something from your own creativity, you transfer what was once imaginary into reality.

2/1/2011 11:51:16 PM

^^^^^ You, a living, breathing, functioning creature, where not a living, breathing, functioning creature before you became a living, breathing, functioning creature.

When you die, you are no longer a living, breathing, functioning creature.

Before you were conceived, you were two parts of an incomplete human. After conception, you developed into a sentient being with a cognitive brain process. After death, your brain does not do anything. There is nothing to create images for you to see.

It makes perfect sense for there to be nothing nothing nothing nothing before conception. Then there was "something," which we will call LIFE. And then there is nothing nothing nothing nothing which occurs at DEATH.

And really, there wasn't "nothing" before you were conceived. There just wasn't you. There was something, but that something just didn't have you, as you weren't conceived.

[Edited on February 1, 2011 at 11:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/1/2011 11:54:08 PM

I don't like how you say two parts of an incomplete human.

2/1/2011 11:55:45 PM

Look at it from your point of view now.


Does the universe really exist if there is nobody alive to comprehend it?

2/1/2011 11:58:53 PM

Quote :

"It makes all the sense and none of the sense all at the same time. "

yes, exactly

2/2/2011 12:03:10 AM

fucking baptists is pretty much the same as fucking methodists.

2/2/2011 12:05:09 AM

^ Uhh... the methodist church I go to doesn't act this way

2/2/2011 12:06:33 AM

Quote :

"Can't blame them for doing what their religion tells them to do."

Yes. Yes I can. It's a fucking book. They have control of their own actions.

Quote :

"It makes all the sense and none of the sense all at the same time."

No. It makes sense all of the time. It just takes time for you to wrap your head around it. It's like thinking about infinity. If you start counting, you just never stop. Or it's like an asymptote, when a line on a graph never approaches a certain point. Or the concept of a point in space. It has no mass, or geometry, you can't measure it, but we know where it is. It doesn't make sense if you don't take the time to try and understand it.

If you look at infinity with the thought process that a beginning has an end, it will never make sense. But you look at it as a line, there really is no beginning or end. You don't need to know how many numbers there are. There are as many numbers as we need there to be. Something simply doesn't end. It's like time. It really doesn't end. It will never end. Maybe our perception of time will end (all humans are dead), but time goes on.

Or an asymptote and a point. A line will get infinitesimally close to the point, but will never get to it. A point is nothing more than a reference in space, like a coordinate. It's a location, like on a map. If you are unable to ever get to that point or line, that's an asymptote.

They're all simple concepts when you break them down and examine what they really are.

As humans, we're very self-centered, as we only look at time in relationship to us, and as such, we don't want time to "stop." What was before we started thinking? Well, life was still there, we just weren't. What thoughts do you have of before your conception? None. Our brain wasn't developed, we simple weren't into being. So why is death any different? Why would there suddenly be a Star Trek transport to another planet of people we once knew? That, in itself, doesn't make sense. The Christian idea of the afterlife doesn't make sense. It's very idealistic and it sounds nice, which is what draws people to it. But if you think about it, what thoughts did you have and what were YOU before conception? Nothing. So after death, yeah, we have a dead body. Our brains don't work. We can't see, feel or do anything. We are just as we were before conception. It's not glamorous, or nice sounding, but that's really the essence of death.

2/2/2011 12:08:37 AM

cue froshkiller's thoughts on religion

2/2/2011 12:09:22 AM

I prefer the supple mound of a methodist


Gloria Patri niggaz

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

2/2/2011 12:11:07 AM

Quote :

"I don't like how you say two parts of an incomplete human."

That's probably the best description of pre-life I can think of. When the sperm and egg come together, we're an undeveloped, and really, incomplete human. We're a fucking single celled organism. Before conception, we are as two parts (sperm and egg).

Quote :

"Does the universe really exist if there is nobody alive to comprehend it?"

Yes. Don't be so single viewed. A lot happens outside of our perception, both outside what we're capable of seeing now, and before what we were capable of seeing (ie, before we were alive to comprehend it).

This is like saying "Were your parents really alive before you were alive to see them alive?"

2/2/2011 12:13:41 AM

I think that we're really just energy (aka souls, spiritual beings etc.). Our bodies comprehend the world around us through a human brain. Colors, sounds, noises, emotions etc. are all just creations or projections of the human mind. We believe what we see/feel/experience is the real world, but it's not. We're just energy, individual spiritual beings all connected together as one. We all interpret this feeling of unity/attraction as different gods or different philosophies when it's actually all the same. As energy, we have no beginning and no end.

In the words of Bill Hicks "The world is just a ride" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1RQmnSJoRg

2/2/2011 12:14:00 AM

Quote :

"^ Uhh... the methodist church I go to doesn't act this way"

you did not get the joke, obviously

2/2/2011 12:15:02 AM

Quote :

"This is like saying "Were your parents really alive before you were alive to see them alive?""

That's what you were lead to believe.

You have no proof for you were not alive. All you know is hearsay.

Truman show effect.

2/2/2011 12:16:21 AM

Quote :

"That's probably the best description of pre-life I can think of. When the sperm and egg come together, we're an undeveloped, and really, incomplete human. We're a fucking single celled organism. Before conception, we are as two parts (sperm and egg)."

Uh, no.

In fact, it's the not the sperm and the egg that matter the most, it's what's inside. Prime example: molar pregnancies. One type of molar pregnancy occurs when there is no genetic material within the ovum; therefore, the sperm duplicates its DNA to restore the should-be zygote to the ideal number of 46 chromosomes. Think you get a baby? Nope, you get a big chunk of placenta with hardly any embryonic material.


My whole point is, I don't think you can say that the egg and sperm are "two parts of an incomplete human." Without them coming together the way they should and working properly (thanks to DNA and other factors) you won't get anything that resembles a human, and all cells arise from these two coming together in such a way. Thus, I think saying that they are just two parts in a very general sense is wrong seeing as all the other parts come from them. I think you'd be better off saying that conception is like a puzzle - with a key piece missing, it won't happen. You need all the parts to come together.

Also, how can you even determine what a "complete" human is?

Hopefully that all makes sense.

^2 guess not


[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 12:21 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 12:23 AM. Reason : .]

2/2/2011 12:18:38 AM

Quote :

"I'm wondering what fucker told this church about me. It's a small town, and I only know like 3 or so people who live in it (3 to many, I know...)."

I'm sure he went back and devoted his next sermon to discussion of merbig.

I bet the whole time he was talking you were thinking about the big deal you were going to make over this on TWW.

2/2/2011 12:24:27 AM

To be fair, there are many types of Baptists, and the people at your door do not represent all of them. Sure, I had a suitemate at state that told my Catholic roommate she was going to hell just for being Catholic. But I also attended services at a small Baptist church up here for a little while with my husband, and they were nothing like what you describe.

Moral: don't generalize asshat

2/2/2011 3:36:20 AM

I went to a Baptist church in a small community when I was growing up. To this day, that is the nicest, most genuine, and most helpful group of people I have ever been a part of.

2/2/2011 3:49:31 AM

fucking baptists... how does it work?

2/2/2011 5:02:03 AM

courtesy of FroshKiller:

Quote :

"Before you post that religion thread Hi. You're probably new to the Wolf Web. In fact, I'm willing to bet you're new to college in general. It's an exciting time, isn't it? I'm sure that you have been exposed to many ideas and perspectives you'd never realized existed, and you're just bursting with enthusiasm at the thought of sharing a few ideas of your own with your peers now that you find yourself in an academic environment that seems perfectly suited to such an exchange. Why don't we go a little further? Odds are you consider yourself very intelligent. In fact, you're probably so intelligent that you've figured out all the quirks and kinks of organized religion--or at l east Christianity. Yeah, that's it, isn't it? You were probably raised in a Christian household and resent that upbringing for limiting your personal freedoms, so it's only natural that you'd seek to undermine Christ's teachings and save others from having such a faulty belief system for their own good. Pretty cool of you, isn't it? You've really got it together. FUCK YOU YOU STUPID FUCKING FAGGOT COLLEGE KID LET ME TELL YOU A SECRET NONE OF YOUR THOUGHTS ON RELIGION ARE RADICAL OR EVEN THOUGHT-PROVOKING IT'S NO SECRET YOU GOT THEM OFF A FUCKING WEBSITE WE'VE ALL READ THE PROSELYTIZER QUESTIONNAIRE TOO NOTHING YOU CAN SAY IS GOING TO LEND A FRESH OUTLOOK DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT FOR SEVERAL FUCKING CENTURIES NOW SOME OF THE MOST EDUCATED PEOPLE IN THE ANNALS OF HUMAN HISTORY HAVE DEVOTED THEIR LIVES TO ANSWERING DEEPER THEOLOGICAL CONCERNS THAN YOUR PETTY BULLSHIT ABOUT THE DISCREPANCIES IN THE GENEALOGIES OF CHRIST IN THE GOSPELS? I MEAN HOLY FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU'RE THE ONLY COCKSUCKER WHO EVER NOTICED THAT OR SOMETHING?! WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU'RE STILL JUST A STUPID KID AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS SHAMEFUL INCONSIDERATE AND DISRESPECTFUL BECAUSE MAYBE YOU'RE TOO MUCH OF A PUSSY TO LIVE ACCORDING TO A STRICT MORAL CODE AND MAYBE YOU'RE TOO MUCH OF A PUSSY TO ACTUALLY TRY AND DEVELOP A STRONG, HONORABLE CHARACTER BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT FOR YOU TO ATTACK MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY TO PLAY THE VICTIM TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY "FORCE THEIR BELIEFS" ON YOU BY HANDING OUT A FUCKING PAMPHLET I MEAN HOLY FUCKING CHRIST WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS TEN TIMES WORSE GET OVER YOURSELF ALREADY THIS REBELLION AGAINST MOMMY AND DADDY ISN'T IMPRESSING ANYONE WE'VE SEEN IT BEFORE YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST YOU ARE NOT EVEN REMARKABLE STOP ARGUING WITH GARY HE IS MAKING A FOOL OF YOU I SWEAR UPON THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE PIERCED FUCKING JEW KING THAT IF YOU PULL THIS SALISBURYBOY, SYLVERSHADOW KIND OF SHIT ON ME YOU WORTHLESS WICCAN PANTYSTAIN I WILL SPLIT THE TENDER TISSUES OF YOUR WEEPING ASSHOLE WITH A HARDCOVER EDITION OF THE NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION OF THE HOLY FUCKING BIBLE YOU THINK YOU'RE SO FUCKING SMART I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU DO THE SAME SHIT WITH ANY RELIGION BESIDES CHRISTIANITY OR JUDAISM WITH SOME BOOK BESIDES THE BIBLE OR THE TORAH YOU AIDS-FELCHING CUM FLAKE SO PUT THAT IN YOUR FUCKING PIPE YOU JUST BOUGHT FROM BUDDHA'S BELLY THE FIRST WEEKEND YOU WERE UP HERE AND SMOKE IT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT COLLEGE KID and that's my word."

Quit fucking whining, you could have just said "I'm not interested" and shut the door. You decided to not do that, so its pretty much your fault that you listened to what he had to say.

2/2/2011 7:43:05 AM

Quote :

"doesn't really make sense for there to be nothing nothing nothing before you were born... and then there was "something" and then there is nothing nothing nothing again"

it's not that there was nothing it's just that you weren't around to know that it existed

you have to try to step outside yourself and get an objective picture of what the world actually is, we are limited to our senses in what we can individually perceive and comprehend but the sciences are doing a pretty good job of revealing that objective picture

Quote :

"Does the universe really exist if there is nobody alive to comprehend it?"

yes

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 8:06 AM. Reason : .]

2/2/2011 8:05:17 AM

yes, the big bang

everything started with nothing






which then exploded





and soap box wants its thread back

2/2/2011 8:14:42 AM

^^^ hahaha oh goodness, how have I never seen that before. AWESOME!

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 8:32 AM. Reason : how did a smiley end up in my post?]

2/2/2011 8:31:14 AM

Quote :

"fucking baptists is pretty much the same as fucking methodists."

you can lump all christian denominations into the same category if you want, but saying the methodists and baptists are "pretty much the same" in the context of this thread makes you a dumbass

2/2/2011 8:59:39 AM

I'd like to find a nice wholesome church, but it seems harder than it should be. Maybe the church in town won't be corrupt, even though it is a big church.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 9:12 AM. Reason : looks like they have 2 interim pastors >_>]

2/2/2011 9:08:34 AM

^^ I believe he's referring to intercourse with said denominations


^you looking for one in raleigh?

2/2/2011 9:14:29 AM

^^^ what makes you a dumbass is your lack of reading comprehension.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 9:15 AM. Reason : .]

2/2/2011 9:15:06 AM

^^nah, just moved to the small town of Locust, NC. It's 30 minutes from Charlotte.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 9:16 AM. Reason : -]

2/2/2011 9:15:48 AM

RAWR RAWR RAWR I'M AN ATHIEST AND I'M SO MUCH SMARTER THAT RELIGIOUS PEOPLE

2/2/2011 9:23:12 AM

One time I had a hispanic guy come to my door and ask me if there were any hispanic people living nearby.

Being a guilt-ridden, white liberal, I was thinking "Wait, what? Is this a trick? Is it ok for me to identify people by their ethnicity to a total stranger? I'm not a racist, I promise!". Then he clarified that he was looking for new members to invite to his hispanic church.

My racially hyper-sensitive generation Y brain did a total 180: "Wait, so you're only going to invite hispanics to your church? Am I not good enough because I'm white? I am offended, even though I would have flatly refused any invitation."

2/2/2011 9:40:07 AM

Quote :

"fucking baptists is pretty much the same as fucking [insert any religion]."

2/2/2011 9:41:14 AM

^^ lol

2/2/2011 9:43:49 AM

Man, I know this is a gross generalization, but it sure seems like atheists are a rather narcissistic bunch; they seem to think that the world stops at the threshold of their logic. Heaven forbid (no pun intended) that there are aspects of the universe beyond our mortal understanding.

2/2/2011 9:47:41 AM

Quote :

"My racially hyper-sensitive generation Y brain did a total 180: "Wait, so you're only going to invite hispanics to your church? Am I not good enough because I'm white? I am offended, even though I would have flatly refused any invitation."

Maybe the meetings were in Spanish and he assumed you'd rather not go to them. But yeah, the dude was just out knocking doors to discriminate on a personal face to face level.

2/2/2011 10:02:59 AM

as i go through school i find myself believing in god more and more. i know it sounds counterintuative, but as i learn more i realize the amazingness of it all.

it's pretty rad.


but anyway this quote:
"I don't care if you Christians want to have your imaginary friends, eat up your book of tales as fact, and march to the beat of a cult leader. It's your choice. Just leave me the fuck alone. I'm not interested in your kool aid."

reminded me of a great saying:
"But atheists talking about sophisticated believers sometimes seem like tone-deaf people talking about Bach."

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 10:03 AM. Reason : mehhh]

2/2/2011 10:03:13 AM

good baptists:


[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 10:05 AM. Reason : .]

2/2/2011 10:05:23 AM

I'm surprised this turned into a discussion about religion.

2/2/2011 10:08:37 AM

thanks for the tl;dr

so this is in your new town i guess? i too moved to a small religious town but haven't had any bible thumpers come beat down my door

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 10:13 AM. Reason : lkj]

2/2/2011 10:11:16 AM

Quote :

"they seem to think that the world stops at the threshold of their logic. Heaven forbid (no pun intended) that there are aspects of the universe beyond our mortal understanding."

atheists don't own logic - it is what it is

i feel like most atheists I encounter are more open minded and critical thinkers than religious people (generalization i know) who just say that we can't ever understand the world better than we do now and stop there

2/2/2011 10:28:59 AM

^ahhaha i've had the exact opposite experience.



honestly i think that either extreme of the spectrum can be really hardheaded and intolerant.

2/2/2011 10:34:07 AM

Quote :

"either extreme of the spectrum can be really hardheaded and intolerant."

I agree 100%. I also find this to be the case with politics- and why I no longer have any hope for our government.

2/2/2011 10:35:30 AM

Atheists aren't explicitly required by their beliefs to recruit others. Maybe you ran into some people that would be annoying no matter what they believed. Less likely, but also possible, is that your feelings got hurt and you decided they were hard-headed and intolerant.

2/2/2011 10:37:41 AM

Quote :

"That's what you were lead to believe. You have no proof for you were not alive. All you know is hearsay."

do pictures and video count? or do we assume its all just photoshoped?

2/2/2011 10:40:32 AM

^a really cool thought to go along with that "theory" (if i dare call it that) is the idea that at any given second we could all have been created. all of our memories, our past, and the people who lived before us are implanted memories.(including pictures and video, because they represent the past).... they never actually happened.


(source: this badass philosophy book i read in highschool )

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 10:44 AM. Reason : ]

2/2/2011 10:43:23 AM

set em up

2/2/2011 10:44:41 AM