As I venture into the dark, scary forest known as The Garage... anyone have a newer Escape Limited? Like? Hate? Thoughts?

2/14/2011 12:02:19 AM

They're gay. Either buy a real truck or a real car. Crossovers suck at everything.

2/14/2011 12:03:35 AM

i took a road trip in one, rode pretty well

2/14/2011 12:04:31 AM

I've had an Element for years and love it, but its up to 120K and want to trade it in before it completely worthless


^ what year was it?

2/14/2011 12:07:41 AM

Yeah, they ride fine. If that's your metric, you'll be happy with an Escape or most anything else.

My daughter's mother has one. It sucks, like pretty much all crossovers. They don't drive as well as a car, don't haul any more than a wagon, generally get worse gas mileage than either, and still can't do any truck stuff.

2/14/2011 12:07:50 AM

well I dont do any "truck stuff" and I am definitely not a performance car guy, care a lot more about comfort and reliability than anything else. It gets around 30 which is better than my element, and I have been spoiled by the headroom in the element, dont really want a car. Also I am a sucker for gadgets, like their sync shit

[Edited on February 14, 2011 at 12:11 AM. Reason : d]

2/14/2011 12:09:53 AM

I suspect it will be financially more advantageous to just keep the Element and keep it in good shape. You're into the fairly flat part of the depreciation curve on it. Getting something newer is going to cause you to eat more depreciation (not to mention titling/registration expenses). Also, it's rare that I buy a vehicle and don't discover a couple of things that I have to fix on it after owning it for a couple of weeks (things not noticed on the test drive).

[Edited on February 14, 2011 at 12:14 AM. Reason : ]

2/14/2011 12:13:55 AM

yeah, I am still debating it, but for the sake of this thread lets assume I am looking to buy...

2/14/2011 12:16:34 AM

Found a "used" 2011 at a Volvo dealer with 1,333 miles on it (previous owners recently got married, each had their own kids, needed something that seated 7), Limited trim, fully loaded, asking about $24K on it. Originally they were going to give me $7500 for my 5 year old Element with 113,000 miles on it but I got them up to about $9k on it.

So, with taxes, title, trade in, everything its right at $17K for a basically brand new car. Took it for a test drive and it rode great, really smooth ride and the Sync system is pretty damn cool. Heated seats, leather, dual zone climate shit, power sunroof, rear camera...Only thing I didnt like were the back seats, seemed a little tight but I am probably just comparing them to my Element which has a ton of room but it will be rare that anyone would even be back there and even more rare that I would be back there haha.

Might pull the trigger tomorrow... still trying to get them down another $1000

2/21/2011 1:23:40 AM

if you don't do truck stuff and you don't often have more than 1 passenger, why are you looking at a small SUV?

2/21/2011 2:32:25 AM

because he's fat

2/21/2011 2:43:04 AM

just like the ability to carry more if I ever want to (e.g. road trips, tailgating, family, etc) but I dont lug around enough to warrant a full time truck

2/21/2011 3:14:39 AM

A. It won't carry much more than a sedan, and almost no more than a wagon.
B. Holy shit, how much do you need to haul to take a road trip or tailgate?

2/21/2011 7:45:55 AM

c. its a soccer mom unit body

2/21/2011 8:03:27 AM

if you love the sync system, just buy a fusion

2/21/2011 10:41:06 AM

Quote :

"its right at $17K for a basically brand new car"

+$9k

2/21/2011 12:50:41 PM

^^^^ I don't like sedans

^ well no shit, but there would be zero reason for me to keep the current car so it's not really a cost.

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 12:53 PM. Reason : D]

2/21/2011 12:50:56 PM

whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel better about the purchase is fine by me

2/21/2011 12:56:39 PM

At $24k I'd get an almost new FJ Cruiser.
You'll thank me when you decide to sell it and get nearly twice as much as you would for the Ford.

2/21/2011 3:20:58 PM

you can get a mustang gt for 26K (-9k i'm guessing so 17k) and have way cooler car for the money.

Keep in mind an escape is an AWD contour with a body lift.... and they stopped making contours years ago.

i would say the new explorer may be a better buy for you (its a taurus/flex with a lift kit but still a way better car)

your element probably drives better and gets better mileage than the escape...
(and i consider myself a ford guy)



[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 3:22 PM. Reason : .]

2/21/2011 3:21:41 PM

My dad's new company car is a ford escape with the 4 cyl. They replaced the transmission before delivery.

It's having somewhat iffy transmission issues again. The seats in it are kind of crap compared to the Taurus X he was driving before.

I wouldn't spend my own money to drive one of these things.

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 3:26 PM. Reason : This is another "I'm asking a question, but I'm really just going to buy the car anyway" thread...]

2/21/2011 3:25:34 PM

^ spot on the 4 banger trannies in both contour and escape suck.

2/21/2011 3:30:24 PM

Quote :

"you can get a mustang gt for 26K (-9k i'm guessing so 17k) and have way cooler car for the money. Keep in mind an escape is an AWD contour with a body lift.... and they stopped making contours years ago. i would say the new explorer may be a better buy for you (its a taurus/flex with a lift kit but still a way better car) your element probably drives better and gets better mileage than the escape... (and i consider myself a ford guy)"

I dont like Mustangs and "coolness" isnt that big of a factor. And it gets about 6 MPG better than the Element, and thats without taking into account the 112,000 difference in miles. I will look at the Explorers too... thanks

Quote :

"My dad's new company car is a ford escape with the 4 cyl. They replaced the transmission before delivery. It's having somewhat iffy transmission issues again. The seats in it are kind of crap compared to the Taurus X he was driving before. I wouldn't spend my own money to drive one of these things."

One I am looking at is the V6 Limited... front seats felt great, but I didnt like the rear seats as much as my Element but then again the Element probably has more rear seat room than just about anything out there. What transmission problems is it having?

2/21/2011 4:04:12 PM

On paper it gets 6 mpg better then the element.

There is no way the v6 escape beats the element in mpg in real world driving.

(mustang gets 26 on paper but avg-ed 8.8 on our test drive)

2/21/2011 4:13:03 PM

well, I was comparing the paper Element number to the paper Escape number

2/21/2011 4:15:22 PM

^^DITTO...I'd bet dollaz you'll never get better than your element.

I think you're pretty much making up every excuse in the book to get a new car and justify it.

I'd take a Honda CRV any day over the Escape and I'm not even a lesbian. Element? In a heartbeat. That's about the best bang for the buck I know of in terms of space, utility, and reliability.

And it's paid for. No amount of gas savings is gonna make up for the loss you take if you buy a brand new Escape and resume making payments.

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 4:16 PM. Reason : redirect...]

2/21/2011 4:16:31 PM

I would pay cash for it, so financing isnt an issue... obviously the money is still money though haha.

I love my Element, but it is getting up there in years and mileage and I have the itch for something new anyways. What is it that you dont like about the Escape?

Why do you think I would never get better gas mileage than the Element? especially with it having so many more miles... the Element was never known as a great gas mileage car

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 4:20 PM. Reason : d]

2/21/2011 4:19:44 PM

Because a 2011 Escape Limited is rated at 18 city/23 highway, and that's for the four cylinder and front wheel drive only.

The latest Element is rated 19 city/24 highway, and that's all-wheel drive.

The Element is a little more aerodynamically challenged than the CR-V, but my dad regularly gets between 28 and 30 with his CR-V.

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 4:32 PM. Reason : I know which one I'd own.]

2/21/2011 4:31:34 PM

sucks that a lot of the population feels that 112k is a lot of miles on a car

2/21/2011 4:35:11 PM

No kidding. I've got 185k on my 2003 Accord. I still get 27 mpg when I behave somewhat, and I'm banking on the damn thing lasting at least another two years and 50k miles.

Oh...and I beat the everloving bejeezus out of it most of the time.

I have gotten better than 29 mpg when I've really behaved.

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 4:40 PM. Reason : beJAYzus]

2/21/2011 4:37:44 PM

its more an issue of trade in... I am surprised I got them to give me 9K on it, if I hold on to it too much longer I wouldnt get jack shit

I just did a search for my requirements: Used 2011-2012 SUV within 200 miles of Atlanta, with under 15,000 miles on it, with navigation, under 24K and the only results were the one I am looking at and a Kia Sorrento

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 4:45 PM. Reason : d]

2/21/2011 4:41:03 PM

hey man that's a deal go buy it now

2/21/2011 4:59:14 PM

zing! I'm off! thats for the validation


I might actually go look at the Kia... pretty solid reviews

2/21/2011 5:00:17 PM

Quote :

"well no shit, but there would be zero reason for me to keep the current car so it's not really a cost. "

Facepalm. Personal finance [FAIL].

Quote :

"No amount of gas savings is gonna make up for the loss you take if you buy a brand new Escape and resume making payments get your face fucked by depreciation."

Quote :

"I love my Element, but it is getting up there in years and mileage "

No, it is not. Jesus, you're right in the sweet spot of ownership...still a ton of life left before lots of problems start happening, but the depreciation curve is now pretty flat. Just face it, this is an awful idea. If you do it anyway, it's just because you're determined to buy a new car regardless of how little sense it makes.

Quote :

"its more an issue of trade in... I am surprised I got them to give me 9K on it, if I hold on to it too much longer I wouldnt get jack shit"

So let me get this straight...you are trying to keep from eating the depreciation on a 5-year old Honda with 112k miles...by buying a new Ford?

Quote :

"This is another "I'm asking a question, but I'm really just going to buy the car anyway" thread.."

Exactly.

He made a thread asking for advice. He's gotten a whole bunch of good advice, with pretty much all of it contrary to what he wants to hear.


Jaybee1200, there really isn't much left to discuss. The verdict is unanimous among those "in the know", that this is a shitty car and a shitty financial decision. You have all the information you need now, and it's pretty clear cut that this is a terrible ideal It's over to you now, though...either go ahead and do it anyway, or don't.

Quote :

"I'd take a Honda CRV any day over the Escape and I'm not even a lesbian."

haha

2/21/2011 5:26:17 PM

Quote :

"So let me get this straight...you are trying to keep from eating the depreciation on a 5-year old Honda with 112k miles...by buying a new Ford?"

Obviously I will have to buy a new car at some time. The longer I wait, the less I will get for the car I have. I realize that I am in the flat part of the curve, but I wasnt going to get rid of it before now, so if I wait, it might be a small overall percentage decrease in what I will get but to me 9K vs. 7k is a big deal since I never wanted to sell it before now. Basically if you zoom in on the graph close enough to only see from this point onwards and changed the scale accordingly, then it wouldnt be flat. Compared to the resale if I had sold it in year 1 then of course it is flat, but I wasnt going to sell it then.

And I havent heard anything actual concrete about why its shitty... just things like "a mustang is cooler" or "I'm not a lesbian", just subjective stuff, nothing objective aside from the transmission comment that I am still waiting to hear more about

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 5:35 PM. Reason : d]

2/21/2011 5:33:14 PM

Quote :

"Obviously I will have to buy a new car at some time. The longer I wait, the less I will get for the car I have. I realize that I am in the flat part of the curve, but I wasnt going to get rid of it before now, so if I wait, it might be a small overall percentage decrease in what I will get but to me 9K vs. 7k is a big deal since I never wanted to sell it before now. Basically if you zoom in on the graph close enough to only see from this point onwards and changed the scale accordingly, then it wouldnt be flat. Compared to the resale if I had sold it in year 1 then of course it is flat, but I wasnt going to sell it then."

Dude, let me try one more time to illustrate this for you:

Yes, if you keep your Honda, the value might go from $9k to $7k. However, if you buy that Ford, in the same period of time, the value will probably go from $25k to $19k, and the financial beating will continue for years.

Quote :

"nothing objective aside from the transmission comment that I am still waiting to hear more about"

I offered either buy a real truck or a real car. Crossovers suck at everything. What I mean is that it can't do any truck stuff: it can't haul a lot, it can't tow a lot, it can't go offroad. For all practical purposes--from a functionality standpoint as well as an engineering standpoint, it is simply a car disguised as a truck. Unfortunately, that also makes it suck as a car. It gets poorer fuel economy and doesn't handle as well. This is a trait shared by "crossovers" or whatever you want to call them. Basically, they suck at most things and aren't good at anything. Your Element is the same way, but at least it's probably a little more utilitarian, and most of all, it makes FAR better financial sense to keep it.

In other words, if you're going to do something that makes no financial sense, at least get yourself a car that's good at something.

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 5:50 PM. Reason : but whatever...this discussion is pointless. ]

2/21/2011 5:48:58 PM

Quote :

"Yes, if you keep your Honda, the value might go from $9k to $7k. However, if you buy that Ford, in the same period of time, the value will probably go from $25k to $19k, and the financial beating will continue for years."

Like I said, unless I kept one car forever, the new car depreciation will happen no matter what... so I can go from 25k to 19k now and get 9k for the trade in, or I can go from 25 to 19 later and get 7k for the trade in... and I totally disagree with "crossovers" being worthless, once again, that is more your opinion than anything else. I have had cars, trucks and the Element, and it was by far my favorite.

So, throwing out the "I dont like the look or genre of the car" the only thing so far has been the transmission problems on the 2010 4 cylinder

2/21/2011 5:56:08 PM

Quote :

"Like I said, unless I kept one car forever, the new car depreciation will happen no matter what... so I can go from 25k to 19k now and get 9k for the trade in, or I can go from 25 to 19 later and get 7k for the trade in."

No, for one thing, it will not happen no matter what. It only happens if you buy new cars rather than buy stuff that's several years old.

For another thing, this cycle of buying new (or nearly new) cars and then selling them when they get 100k miles on them will ALWAYS keep you in the steep part of the depreciation curve.

You are only thinking one step ahead. When you buy that new car now instead of later, you end up having to replace it that much sooner, too...and then the cycle continues.

I have bought 10 cars over the years, along with 5 motorcycles and 2 jet skis. Of the ones that I have sold to date, I have broken even or made money on most of them. I promise you that I know what I'm talking about, and I promise you that you are about to do something very dumb.

Quote :

"So, throwing out the "I dont like the...genre of the car""

I don't like the genre because the genre sucks. Not in a subjective way, but in a numbers and data kind of way. The only subjective preference at play here is your affinity for crossovers...the reason I don't like them is very much based in cold, hard facts.

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 6:17 PM. Reason : ]

2/21/2011 6:15:04 PM

no, its not. You dont like them because you feel they dont do anything good at all, I feel that do. I have owned all three: cars, truck, and crossovers, and out of them I prefer the crossover. And the genre wouldnt even exist if group of people didnt like them. I wont be hauling around a fucking boat or a load of wood so I dont need a truck, but I like the interior space and riding position of a truck over a sedan or coupe

2/21/2011 6:24:41 PM

perhaps you guys should meet in the middle. buy a car AND THEN PUT A LIFT ON IT, RAWR.

2/21/2011 6:45:21 PM

if you're gonna get a truck, then get a fucking truck.



i test drove an escape, still ended up buying my explorer.
it's no car, but it does the truck thing very well when i need it to.

2/21/2011 7:57:14 PM

itt, jaybee argues that it is cheaper to buy a new car every 5 years than to buy a new car every 10 years

[Edited on February 21, 2011 at 9:22 PM. Reason : tt]

2/21/2011 9:21:38 PM

no I dont.... not at all.

2/21/2011 10:02:38 PM

and all this time I thought Jaybee1200 only posted stupid shit in Sports Talk

2/21/2011 10:11:09 PM

i'm not really sure why this thread even exists



all you wanted was validation on a decision that you seemingly already made

2/21/2011 10:14:39 PM

no, I wanted someone to say "the fucking gas tank falls off after 2000 miles" or "the seats give you hemorrhoids after 2 days" and not "I dont like that entire class of vehicles, therefore dont buy it"

2/21/2011 10:18:38 PM

Well my guess is that if you sit in the seat for 2 days straight, you might just get hemorrhoids.

2/21/2011 10:20:59 PM

true... better get one of those bead seat things

2/21/2011 10:21:57 PM

2/21/2011 10:23:07 PM

WTF? You seriously want to TRADE a perfectly good Honda in on what is probably the absolute worst crossover made today?

#1, they aren't giving you $9500 for the Element. They are giving you $7500 for it and making up the difference in the Escape that you could have negotiated down another $1500+. Actually, they are probably giving you $6k and just keeping $3k in the Escape.

#2, the only time it makes sense to trade in a car is when your time is worth the $2k+ that you're going to lose by not selling it yourself

#3, There is absolutely no redeeming value about the Ford Escape other than its absolutely amazing ability to completely fuck you on resale value. If you're lucky, in 5 years you will have spent less than $8k in repairs and it will be worth about half of what your Honda is worth now.

Why don't you check out http://www.arfc.org/complaints/2010/ford/escape/ and take a look at some of the complaints. Go back in the years some to get an idea. When you finish, do the same for the Element and then ask yourself if you're really getting a good vehicle.

2/21/2011 10:30:56 PM