http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/116469428.html

wtf

Quote :

"Capitol Chaos: State Patrol Goes After Democratic Senators By Jay Sorgi MADISON - According to the Wisconsin senate majority leader, the Governor's office is sending out state troopers to go after Wisconsin's Democratic Senate members to bring in a vote on Governor Walker's budget bill which would dramatically limit government workers union's ability to negotiate many of their benefits. "They are prepared to dispatch state troopers to go out to some of the residences of some of the senators," said Republican State Senator Scott Fitzgerald on Newsradio 620 WTMJ's "Midday with Charlie Sykes." "We don't know that everybody is out of state. These troopers are going to go and try to escort these senators back to the chamber." The State Patrol cannot go after the Democratic senators who have left the state, and Democratic State Senator Jon Erpenbach told "Wisconsin's Morning News" that all 14 Democratic Senate members have fled Wisconsin and have not announced a timetable for their return. At 9:00 a.m., both the State Senate and Assembly were set to begin their sessions on the budget repair bill. Fitzgerald said he was not sure if Assembly Democrats are showing up or want to caucus."

Unions = srs business

2/18/2011 12:05:44 PM

I saw Ed & Rachel on MSNBC complaining about it last night.

Ed was all about the emotional appeal, please think of the teachers. How can you do this to them? (I didn't actually watch his show, he was just interviewed on other shows b/c he was live at the scene of the protests)

Rachel said okay, the budget was balanced, then GOP governor issued 140 million in new tax cuts (if I remember the numbers right, this was background noise while I wrote a paper), and now there is a 147 million budget short fall that he is using to explain as the reason why they need to cut government salaries and benefits there (as well as bust unions), you do the math.

Ed went on to make a point about how, while the benefits for a gov job are usually decent, the salary is usually substantially less, and over all they are already making lower than their private sector counter parts. Its not a bad point... but he still irks me for some reason.

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 12:14 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2011 12:12:57 PM

IBTunionhate


^the bill is more than just cutting pay/benefits for teachers. It would stop them from collectively bargaining, which is what most of the protesting is due to.

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 12:15 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 12:17 PM. Reason : teachers and other gov. employees]

2/18/2011 12:13:59 PM

Not that I'm passionate about unions one way or the other. I mean I'm all for freedom of assembly, but whatever.

The Governor irresponsibly created a budget crisis to try to hurt his political enemies, and opposing legislators who didn't have the votes to stop him hid so that a vote couldn't go forward.

Neither side really has room to argue from the moral high ground.

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 12:19 PM. Reason : ^yeah]

2/18/2011 12:18:17 PM

I hate unions...in places like industrial factories. I worked at a place like that and it was absolutely ridiculous trying to get work done through union workers. Hell I got reprimanded as a co-op student for trying to do my work that I couldn't get my union guy to do.

Government workers, teachers? Sure, they can unionize, whatever. They need better wages anyway.

2/18/2011 12:20:09 PM

I thought this was going to be about their weird road system

like in message_topic.aspx?topic=561576

2/18/2011 12:30:18 PM

^I do hate the letters.

2/18/2011 12:34:55 PM

I would have liked to have seen Wisconsin

2/18/2011 12:34:56 PM

Quote :

"Yesterday, I think, was a good day for America. It was a day when America saw the true face of government sector unions. Yesterday, Wisconsin became Greece, and Madison became Athens. Government union workers gathered by the thousands in Wisconsin's capital to protest Gov. Scott Walker's plans to rein in the constant abuse of the Wisconsin taxpayers by government employee unions. America - or at least that part of America that is paying attention - now understands that government employee unions have declared an all-out war on the taxpayers. Unions are mobs, and it was a mob you saw descending on the Wisconsin Capitol yesterday. Mobs don't think. Mobs react. A thinking individual would not hold aloft a sign comparing the governor of Wisconsin to Adolf Hitler. An unthinking member of the mob would, as you could see yesterday by the union signs depicting Walker as Hitler. Mobs are easy to manipulate. That is the role of the union leaders. The leaders of the Wisconsin government sector unions are manipulating the mob for the purpose of preserving their own power and the fat incomes that come with being a labor leader. These union leaders have known for years that this day of reckoning over the state budget would come. They've also known that they would have to find a way to take this reckoning and turn it into a confrontation for their own benefit. Just what is it that Scott Walker and the Republicans in the state legislature want of these government sector unions? Well, they want them to put 5.8% of their wages toward their own retirement. Imagine that! Contributing to your own retirement! Oh, the humanity! They also want government employees to cover 12.6% of their health care premiums. This, of course, is an outrageous concept for Democrats. People just should not be responsible for their own health care. That's the employer's job ... or the government. This, to these pampered and overpaid union members, seems like the end of the world. The fact is that even with those payments into their own retirement plan and into their health care premiums they would still be paying $100 a month less than the average private sector employee pays in Wisconsin. The unions acknowledge that there's a budget problem, but they have a better way of dealing with it. Raise taxes! It's as simple as that. Just raise taxes on the rich and on the businesses. Just do what you have to do to keep the money flowing into the state so that they can continue to be paid more than their private-sector colleagues would be paid for the same work; and so that they don't have to contribute anything to their own retirement or to their own health care. That is the union way. Why do I think yesterday was a good day for America? Once again, because Americans saw what these unions are really all about. Even though they recognize and accept the financial disaster facing their state government and other state governments around the country, the union workers see no need for them to be a part of the solution. Their message to the politicians is "Hey! You know how to raise taxes. Get out there and do it!" Yesterday was a good day for America because the people of this country, already beginning to harbor strong suspicions about the negative role that government employee unions are playing in our economy, finally had those suspicions born out. Teachers unions, the most powerful of all -- and the most feared by Democrats -- called in sick. It was a lie. They weren't sick. They wanted to be paid to demonstrate instead of teach! Now they're union leaders will tell you that the state actually called a work holiday. Not true. The illegal strike came first, in the form of a sickout. Well over 1000 teachers called in the night before the big demonstration and said they would not be at work the next day because they were ill. Did they go to the doctor ? You know they didn't. They painted their signs, grabbed some students and headed for Madison. They lied, and they engaged in an illegal work stoppage. The people of Wisconsin saw it, and the people of America saw it. And today the people of this country have a clearer understanding of just how lawless and how dangerous government sector unions can be. The people of Wisconsin voiced their concerns at the polls last November. They elected a Republican legislature and they put a Republican governor in office. They were tired of the spending, tired of the deficits, and tired of the debt that their children were going to have to pay off. They were also tired of government sector unions riding roughshod, not only over the legislative powers, but also over the voters. They voted for a change. But, as an editorial in the Madison newspaper put it, the unions are determined that they will have the last word, and they will have the loudest word. Mob rule is now in effect. Do you get it now? Do you see what's coming? Government union workers are prepared to go to war against the taxpayers to protect their jobs and benefits. They make more than their private-sector counterparts? So what? They don't have to contribute to their own retirement plans or health care? So what? They enjoy retirement benefits that private-sector workers can only fantasize about? So what? Just get those rich people out there to pay more in taxes and everything is going to be fine. We're union, people, and we can shut this government down if we want to. Be careful who you pick a fight with. The rich will surrender to higher taxes. We won't surrender to fiscal responsibility. "

2/18/2011 12:34:56 PM

Actually, scratch my support of government worker unions. Now I'm remembering the shit storm in the NYC snow storm, and now ^.

Teachers still need more pay though

2/18/2011 12:38:12 PM

^any teacher that believes they are truly underpaid should prove it by getting a higher paying job in the private sector imo. you know, supply and demand and all that shit.

2/18/2011 12:46:06 PM

^after all, all jobs are equally desirable, interesting, and rewarding on a per-dollar basis

and it's sentiment like ^^^ that leads me and many other people with a love of learning to stay far the fuck away from teaching

2/18/2011 12:54:54 PM

Again, I don't think the protests were because benefits/pay were being reduced but because the bill seeks to end the worker's right to collective bargaining

2/18/2011 12:57:47 PM

^^ youre right. we should not use supply and demand to set the teacher pay scale. we should pay them all whatever they ask for when we hire them.

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 12:58 PM. Reason : c]

2/18/2011 12:58:40 PM

2/18/2011 1:00:18 PM

Quote :

"we should not use supply and demand to set the teacher pay scale."

Not in the public sector.

2/18/2011 1:04:09 PM

Quote :

"any teacher that believes they are truly underpaid should prove it by getting a higher paying job in the private sector imo. you know, supply and demand and all that shit"

Don't do what you love! Do what pays you more!

2/18/2011 1:04:35 PM

Teachers do get paid enough in many states (not NC) but only because they have good benefits. If you start cutting the benefits then not so much.

2/18/2011 1:04:53 PM

^^^^^We don't use supply and demand to determine whose kids get to go to public school, then again you'd rather fuck the poor that way too amirite

Not only that, but the market for teachers isn't even clearing in most districts: The better districts have to turn teachers away, while poor districts have to beg, plead, bribe, and make up the difference with strings of substitutes; you'd think they'd respectively have lower and higher salaries to make up for this, but it's often the opposite.

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 1:06 PM. Reason : ^^too many prospective doctors, lawyers, accountants, and I-bankers lol

2/18/2011 1:05:41 PM

Quote :

"Teachers do get paid enough in many states (not NC) but only because they have good benefits."

My mom was a teacher in NC for 30+ years and her benefits were bad-ass. My gf is a teacher in SC...and her benefits are pretty weak...and she gets paid horrible. She has an undergrad and grad degree in teaching special needs kids (hearing impaired specifically, but can teach other special needs)....and she gets paid peanuts. She has to wait tables on the side in order to not dip into her savings. And the pay has been consistently going down.

It's quite sad. I know SC is pretty much the worst in this aspect, but I know it's been getting worse everywhere (NC isn't too far behind). And education seems to be one of the first programs that always gets cut in these "budget crises" when it should be the last.

2/18/2011 1:16:16 PM

WI has a strong history of labor rights struggles

2/18/2011 1:17:24 PM

Quote :

"Again, I don't think the protests were because benefits/pay were being reduced but because the bill seeks to end the worker's right to collective bargaining"

Bingo. I like how Neal Boortz completely misses that point in his idiotic rant.

2/18/2011 1:25:46 PM

Teachers are overpaid IMO - they average 180 days off a year.

2/18/2011 1:30:17 PM

Quote :

"Teachers are overpaid IMO - they average 180 days off a year."

They didn't use to. They are working less days and getting paid less.

Charleston County is looking to cut the school year by a full week....just so they can cut the teacher's salaries. It's quite ridiculous.

2/18/2011 1:33:02 PM

Tell me, how many days does the average teacher work? Also, how many hours a day does the average teacher normally work (Hint - its not 8 hours like the rest of the world).

I'm not saying teaching is worthless, or is it easy. I'm just saying they are not underpaid by any logical stretch of the imagination.

2/18/2011 2:20:29 PM

they say its gonna happen in other states too. Is North Carolina in danger of this? Teacher salaries down here are pretty measly compared to Wisconsin/Michigan

2/18/2011 2:22:40 PM

Quote :

"Rachel said okay, the budget was balanced, then GOP governor issued 140 million in new tax cuts (if I remember the numbers right, this was background noise while I wrote a paper), and now there is a 147 million budget short fall that he is using to explain as the reason why they need to cut government salaries and benefits there (as well as bust unions), you do the math. "

Yeah, too bad that's a straight-up lie. Everything I see says the tax-cuts were about 70million and the shortfall is 1.5 BILLION. you stay classy, MSNBC. and you accuse FoxNews of being lying bastards
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110205/APC0101/102050457/Wisconsin-Governor-Scott-Walker-signs-bill-granting-business-tax-cuts

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-17/us/wisconsin.budget_1_budget-plans-state-democrats-legislation/2?_s=PM:US

Quote :

"Walker, who says the state is in a crisis, is asking legislators to pass his Budget Repair Bill to combat a $137 million shortfall through June 30. An upcoming two-year budget for 2011-13 must address a pending $3.6 billion deficit, he said."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/109275069.html

Quote :

"To arrive at the favorable estimate, the Doyle administration's estimate assumed that Walker and lawmakers would make spending cuts that have yet to actually happen - two more years of state employee furloughs, no pay raises, a virtual hiring freeze and belt tightening in state health programs. Without that $1.1 billion in savings, the state's projected shortfall rises to $3.3 billion - a significant increase over previous estimates that put the gap at between $2.7 billion and $3.1 billion."

2/18/2011 2:25:26 PM

Quote :

"Tell me, how many days does the average teacher work? Also, how many hours a day does the average teacher normally work (Hint - its not 8 hours like the rest of the world)."

Teachers work the same number of days most people in the private sector work minus the two months we are NOT PAID FOR during the summer.

Also, you are right... teachers don't work 8 hours per day... most teachers work much longer than that. only a very few teachers arrive at 7 and leave at 3. (for example)... (and no, we don't get a true lunch break either.)

2/18/2011 2:27:02 PM

Quote :

"Tell me, how many days does the average teacher work? Also, how many hours a day does the average teacher normally work (Hint - its not 8 hours like the rest of the world). I'm not saying teaching is worthless, or is it easy. I'm just saying they are not underpaid by any logical stretch of the imagination."

you, sir, are a worthless cunt

I say good day to you!

2/18/2011 2:27:58 PM

Typical left wing responses. Teachers are paid in the summer -if they got paid by the hour, they would starve.

In before "grading papers"

2/18/2011 2:33:35 PM

hell you're probably right

clearly YOUR teachers failed the shit out of you

2/18/2011 2:41:40 PM

Yet he's the one with the job

2/18/2011 2:43:40 PM

Quote :

"In before "grading papers""

right, because you shouldn't really count stuff they do outside of the classroom while school isn't in session as "work" and pay them for it...

2/18/2011 2:44:22 PM

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wisconsin-gov-walker-ginned-up-budget-shortfall-to-undercut-worker-rights.php?ref=fpa

Quote :

"Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights ... Unlike true austerity measures -- service rollbacks, furloughs, and other temporary measures that cause pain but save money -- rolling back worker's bargaining rights by itself saves almost nothing on its own. But Walker's doing it anyhow, to knock down a barrier and allow him to cut state employee benefits immediately. Furthermore, this broadside comes less than a month after the state's fiscal bureau -- the Wisconsin equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office -- concluded that Wisconsin isn't even in need of austerity measures, and could conclude the fiscal year with a surplus. In fact, they say that the current budget shortfall is a direct result of tax cut policies Walker enacted in his first days in office. "Walker was not forced into a budget repair bill by circumstances beyond he control," says Jack Norman, research director at the Institute for Wisconsin Future -- a public interest think tank. "He wanted a budget repair bill and forced it by pushing through tax cuts... so he could rush through these other changes." "The state of Wisconsin has not reached the point at which austerity measures are needed," Norman adds. In a Wednesday op-ed, the Capitol Times of Madison picked up on this theme. In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state's budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million. To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. You can read the fiscal bureaus report here (PDF). "

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 2:56 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2011 2:54:26 PM

Quote :

"Hint - its not 8 hours like the rest of the world"

you sir, are displaying your ignorance for all to see.

2/18/2011 2:56:03 PM

that's fine. do more than surf talking points websites and you'll get the truth. that estimate is not for an entire year. every other site claims a 3billion shortfall over 2 years.

i quoted cnn and two newspapers. you quoted: a BLOG (not to mention a blog that has a nice spyware attempt on it). like I said, stop reading propaganda, dude

even funnier, the blog is bitching about him supporting people saving their own money for their own healthcare. lol, what a terrible idea! people actually take care of themselves!

and hey, look at the bottom of the page, where it cites, A NEWS ARTICLE! jeez, man, you are grasping at straws

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 3:01 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2011 2:56:06 PM

The 3 billion is for next two year's budget not this current year. The bill he introduced was a measure to balance this year's budget only which is what the 137 million relates too. Im not going to argue that they don't need to do something about it though



That blog also cites the Fiscal Bureau of Wisconsin (their state CBO)

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 3:22 PM. Reason : ^ link indicates walker's tax breaks amounted to about $117.2 million]

2/18/2011 3:16:09 PM

Quote :

"Yet he's the one with the job"

I have two jobs
and interviews for more

2/18/2011 3:17:10 PM

Quote :

"What the hell is going on in Wisconsin "

They wait until the cheese is mature.

2/18/2011 3:27:22 PM

Teachers show up at 8:30, leave by 3. Mark for about 45 mins (claim its 3 hours). They on average have 180 days off a year.

The average salary is 44,000. On average, a teacher works 185 days a year. I'll be liberal, and say they work 7 hours a day (which is a stretch). That works out to about 33 dollars an hour, and thats not including perks.

They are not overpaid, and there is no reason said teachers can't start a side business or work through the summer.

2/18/2011 3:54:29 PM

Quote :

"Don't do what you love! Do what pays you more!"

If they teach because it is what they love, rather than doing it for a steady pay check, then it shouldn't matter how much they get paid, if money is a secondary or tertiary concern as your comment implies.

Quote :

"I'm not saying teaching is worthless, or is it easy. I'm just saying they are not underpaid by any logical stretch of the imagination."

Comments like this are derived from nothing other than envy. People get upset because teachers can retire early, get sick leave and paid time off, and get summers or track out. Teaching isn't an easy job because, unlike other professions, even your best customers don't care about the product you're marketing. While I can reason that those who are teachers may not be underpaid, I definitely believe the teaching profession is under paid and that is part of the reason why those who would better teachers don't teach. There are multiple principals in my family, and I have heard numerous conversations about how hiring standards are scrapping the bottom of the barrel. If we want to be competitive on a global economy we need to drastically revamp our system.

Quote :

"They didn't use to. They are working less days and getting paid less. Charleston County is looking to cut the school year by a full week....just so they can cut the teacher's salaries. It's quite ridiculous."

Couldn't agree with you more. More money need to be pumped into education, not less. It is an easy target because those making the rules often have their kids in private school education.

Quote :

"Quote : "Again, I don't think the protests were because benefits/pay were being reduced but because the bill seeks to end the worker's right to collective bargaining" Bingo. I like how Neal Boortz completely misses that point in his idiotic rant."

Unions have slowly become the same entity that they were designed to protect against. They use their collective force to prohibit others from acting in their own best interest or even a mutually beneficial contract.

That being said, Neal relies on the emotional distaste people have toward teachers, based on their "summer vacation", and can make those comments without so much as a second thought.

2/18/2011 3:59:03 PM

Quote :

"Teachers show up at 8:30, leave by 3. Mark for about 45 mins (claim its 3 hours). They on average have 180 days off a year. The average salary is 44,000. On average, a teacher works 185 days a year. I'll be liberal, and say they work 7 hours a day (which is a stretch). That works out to about 33 dollars an hour, and thats not including perks. They are not overpaid, and there is no reason said teachers can't start a side business or work through the summer."

you are so fucking clueless it's not even funny

[Edited on February 18, 2011 at 4:00 PM. Reason : i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though, and pretend you're trolling]

2/18/2011 3:59:11 PM

Quote :

"Teachers show up at 8:30, leave by 3. Mark for about 45 mins (claim its 3 hours). They on average have 180 days off a year"

The majority of teachers I know are at school by 7 am and leave on the average at 4pm. And I'm sure you're looking at national averages, but I know North and South Carolina teachers don't make anywhere close to $44K. My gf, with 7 years experience and a grad degree is making 10K less than that. My mom had 30+ years and wasn't making that in NC when she retired (no grad degree of course, but not many teachers her age had those).

You're obviously pulling numbers out your ass or just googling shit and getting random numbers.

2/18/2011 4:01:44 PM

Quote :

": i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though, and pretend you're trolling"

yep, especially considering who this is coming from.

2/18/2011 4:06:19 PM

Quote :

"Teachers are paid in the summer"

I will say that here in Wake County they don't get paid in the summer. I know they used to have a program where they can save part of their paycheck to go into a fund where they get checks in the summer, but they just ended that. Now they have to do the saving part on their own.

2/18/2011 4:08:18 PM

it is really contrary to my core beliefs to say something like this

but god damn, most public school teachers are not smart people

especially elementary school teachers

2/18/2011 4:08:33 PM

When they get paid is irrelevant. NFL players only get paid in the fall.

2/18/2011 4:08:59 PM

I'm sure next up for him is how firefighters are overpaid cause all they do is sit on their ass most of the day waiting for shit to happen

2/18/2011 4:11:38 PM

Quote :

"I will say that here in Wake County they don't get paid in the summer."

Some do, and some don't. I do know that, at least in some NC counties, teachers had the option of getting paid over a 12month period or over a 9 month period.

Quote :

"it is really contrary to my core beliefs to say something like this but god damn, most public school teachers are not smart people especially elementary school teachers"

Agreed. My mother, as a principal, will tell you stories you don't even want to know. From my own personal experience, I can testify that 95% of those who went into teach during undergrad did so because they didn't cut it in another field. Therefore, a large amount of those who do teach do so because it wasn't their passion, and, simultaneously, the low salary prevents those who may desire to teach, yet are pragmatic about supporting families, from doing so.

Quote :

"My gf, with 7 years experience and a grad degree is making 10K less than that."

If it is that teaching graduate studies degree, don't talk it up as if it is a legitimate graduate degree. It is more of a 1 year certificate program. It may sound advanced, but it is lower level than the majority of high school classes people take.

2/18/2011 4:29:24 PM

Quote :

"If it is that teaching graduate studies degree"

Huh?? It's a legit 2-year grad degree, if that's what you're asking.

2/18/2011 4:31:31 PM