http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/06/AR2011030602662.html

Quote :

"In states, parties clash over voting laws that call for IDs, limits on where college students can cast ballots New Hampshire's new Republican state House speaker is pretty clear about what he thinks of college kids and how they vote. They're "foolish," Speaker William O'Brien said in a recent speech to a tea party group. "Voting as a liberal. That's what kids do," he added, his comments taped by a state Democratic Party staffer and posted on YouTube. Students lack "life experience," and "they just vote their feelings." New Hampshire House Republicans are pushing for new laws that would prohibit many college students from voting in the state - and effectively keep some from voting at all. One bill would permit students to vote in their college towns only if they or their parents had previously established permanent residency there - requiring all others to vote in the states or other New Hampshire towns they come from. Another bill would end Election Day registration, which O'Brien said unleashes swarms of students on polling places, creating opportunities for fraud. The measures in New Hampshire are among dozens of voting-related bills being pushed by newly empowered Republican state lawmakers across the country - prompting partisan clashes akin to those already roiling in some states over GOP moves to curb union power. Backers of the voting measures say they would bring fairness and restore confidence in a voting system vulnerable to fraud. Many states, for instance, do not require identification to vote. Measures being proposed in 32 states would add an ID requirement or proof of citizenship, according to an analysis by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University. "I want to know when I walk into the poll that they know I am who I say I am and that nobody else has said that they are me," said North Carolina state Rep. Ric Killian (R), who is preparing to introduce legislation that would require voters to show a photo ID at the polls. Democrats charge that the real goal, as with anti-union measures in Wisconsin, Ohio and elsewhere, is simply to deflate the power of core Democratic voting blocs - in this case young people and minorities. For all the allegations of voter fraud, Democrats and voting rights groups say, there is scant evidence to show that it is a problem. "It's a war on voting," said Thomas Bates, vice president of Rock the Vote, a youth voter- registration group mounting a campaign to fight the array of state measures. "We'd like to be advocating for a 21st-century voting system, but here we are fighting against efforts to turn it back to the 19th century." The debate over voter fraud has become a perennial issue since the contested 2000 presidential election. While limited by federal law and court rulings, states have authority over how they run elections. Although elections officials say there are occasional cases of fraud, experts say the battle lines are drawn largely along deeply partisan - and largely theoretical - lines. "Election policy debates like photo ID and same-day registration have become so fierce around the country because they are founded more on passionate belief than proven fact," said Doug Chapin, an election-law expert at the Pew Center on the States. "One side is convinced fraud is rampant; the other believes that disenfranchisement is widespread. Neither can point to much in the way of evidence to support their position, so they simply turn up the volume." "

For NC:

Quote :

"An analysis by the North Carolina State Board of Elections showed that any new law requiring a state-issued ID could be problematic for large numbers of voters, particularly African Americans, whose turnout in 2008 helped Obama win the state. Blacks account for about one-fifth of the North Carolina electorate but are a larger share - 27 percent - of the approximately 1 million voters who may lack a state-issued ID or whose names do not exactly match the Division of Motor Vehicles database. The analysis found about 556,000 voters with no record of an ID issued by the DMV. Republican lawmakers in North Carolina had pledged to make a photo ID bill a top priority for their new majority, but they have yet to release a plan, with the caucus deliberating over how restrictive it should be. The issue could present a dilemma for Democratic Gov. Bev Perdue, who would have to choose between signing or vetoing a bill that would be popular with swing voters but that could dampen turnout of voters she needs to win reelection next year. "

3/7/2011 3:45:36 PM

and why would an individual not have some form of ID? (separate thought process from the thread)

3/7/2011 3:48:40 PM

I'm 100% in favor of requiring an ID to vote. Also, the state should offer free ID's at every DMV (non driver license)

I'd also be in favor of requiring a IRS receipt for voting. Don't donate, don't participate

3/7/2011 3:49:12 PM

Quote :

"I'd also be in favor of requiring a IRS receipt for voting. Don't donate, don't participate "

In before McDanger.

3/7/2011 4:26:37 PM

I was fishing for rallydurham/face

We'll see how it works out

3/7/2011 4:32:24 PM

GG

3/7/2011 4:39:49 PM

why do particularly african americans struggle with state id?

3/7/2011 4:45:53 PM

why don't we just skip right to the IQ test requirement?

3/7/2011 4:52:04 PM

That might end a lot of political careers.

3/7/2011 4:52:43 PM

Quote :

"I Q TEST"

3/7/2011 4:58:11 PM

Quote :

"That might end a lot of political careers. "

DING DING DING!

3/7/2011 5:00:59 PM

The main problem I have with requiring a photo ID for voting is that it will be fucking expensive.

3/7/2011 5:01:12 PM

So? They'll use the money the saved from cutting (insert valuable public service here).

3/7/2011 5:02:23 PM

Quote :

"They're "foolish," Speaker William O'Brien said in a recent speech to a tea party group."

Not entirely false. I know plenty of people who were in college in 2008 who voted for Obama solely because they "wanted to be a part of history"

Quote :

"For all the allegations of voter fraud, Democrats and voting rights groups say, there is scant evidence to show that it is a problem."

To be fair, how can you say there isn't fraud if you don't know who the fuck is voting?

3/7/2011 5:14:00 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement

3/7/2011 5:20:21 PM

Quote :

"by placing unreasonable registration or identification impediments in the path of voters"

I can't see having a picture ID being even remotely unreasonable. Of course, it's only wiki.

3/7/2011 5:27:22 PM

I'm trying to imagine the scheme where an organized underground group is running around from poll to poll claiming they are other people that would be large enough to affect the outcome of a race.

3/7/2011 5:34:02 PM

How many of y'all paid to update your license when you moved to campus? How many even had a car on campus and reason to do that? Did you pay to update it again any time you changed dorms or apartments?

I went to my Representative's office and asked her to support allowing an exception for Student IDs, and she said she'd run up an amendment in that regard, but that the GOP will almost certainly shoot it down since they aren't too keen on students voting.

There was even talk that the GOP would end early registration for young people who aren't quite of voting age yet to registered so that they'd become eligible when they become of age. There was also talk of limiting or ending early voting. Its really sad how much they're trying to limit and restrict voting. I mean its hard enough to get young people to vote and engaged in civil participation anyways, and now we're throwing more government restrictions and costs to update licenses into the mix.

"1M registered NC voters don't have photo ID"
http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/9059843/

The training of poll workers, implementing these new requirements, and especially if paying for these new IDs for everyone, has cost other states millions. There were only 18 cases of confirmed voter fraud in the 2008 elections even with the massive turn out, and those are of course felony offenses. Its a fair counter argument that there is might secretly be more going on than we know about. But it is really hard to imagine that it is so severe and secret that it is making our society less democratic than would making it harder for a million people to vote, and given that, it is hard to justify spending millions on this at the same time we're cutting the budget so much, including millions from NCSU's funding.

3/7/2011 7:29:06 PM

^how did you even enforce the 18 if you don't have photo id?

It seems like a fairly moot argument because with photo ID use you'd have a much better, easier chance to enforce the law.

[Edited on March 7, 2011 at 8:00 PM. Reason : ^we didn't update license because it's not free. ID cards should be free, despite the cost.]

3/7/2011 7:47:22 PM

Quote :

"ID cards should be free, despite the cost."

So you'd oppose this bill if it comes down as a poll tax where you have to pay to vote?

Another problem with this bill is the ability for homeless to vote, since they rarely have a driver license with a current address, or even a car, or an address, and given this economy I expect that is a larger segment of the population than it used to be.

3/7/2011 9:18:20 PM

Quote :

"Not entirely false. I know plenty of people who were in college grown adults in 2008 who voted for Obama solely because they "wanted to be a part of history""

This isn't a problem unique to college students, the average voter is depressingly uninformed

3/7/2011 9:49:39 PM

^^ You should never be charged a dime for whatever you need to vote. That should remain illegal.

Proof of address shouldn't be a requirement for an ID.

What I'm thinking is a simple ID card, with a photo, and it could be verified by a simple numerical passcode. Present your card, put in passcode, verify it with state database using a character as a challenge reply from the database (like the first letter of your last name.) The database, therefore, holds no personally identifiable information, and is hard to fake or spoof. You could even use current driver license numbers and cut down on the number of ID's needed.

Make it illegal to use the cards for anything other than diplomatic identification (no storing of county, race, party, etc - only state, number, pin and challenge initial.)

edit: the database should not store pictures, or voting records either. Just whether you voted or no. Upon filing of your death certificate you're removed from the database. You'd need thorough checks for renewing cards though - but they've pretty much locked that down for stuff like drivers licenses. The problem is the people with no address; which is still a very small percentage of the population.
Anyway. I'm really tired - this might not be the 100% lock-tight idea it is in my head

[Edited on March 7, 2011 at 10:08 PM. Reason : .]

3/7/2011 10:05:22 PM

i have always been amazed that you do not have to show any ID to vote.

i see what they're doing, and it's for the wrong reasons... but i don't disagree w/ it in principle.

3/7/2011 10:13:00 PM

^^^ yep. for all the easy availability of information out there now, most people are just ridiculously ignorant and, in many cases, flat-out stupid. The problem is that these dumbasses greatly outnumber those of us who are smart and informed and really have more business deciding the fate of the nation, and therefore the politicians cater to them.

It's gotten so bad that I haven't voted for President since 2000, for example, and in this last midterm election, didn't vote at all (usually I vote in maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the races on the ballot, and either abstain or write-in "no confidence" for the rest).

[Edited on March 7, 2011 at 10:19 PM. Reason : ]

3/7/2011 10:19:14 PM

Quote :

"Proof of address shouldn't be a requirement for an ID. What I'm thinking is a simple"

Unfortunately that isn't what the GOP General Assembly is thinking, that wouldn't achieve the goal.

3/7/2011 10:29:31 PM

haha when i was in college everyone i knew voted democrat simply because w was a fucking retard

3/7/2011 10:30:25 PM

all my friends voted republican

(isn't that how it goes? You hang with people with like values?)

3/7/2011 10:59:22 PM

Stupid kids not knowing our president is a Kenyan Socialist.

3/7/2011 11:09:04 PM