Quote :

"GREENSBORO — A state court says that an online company that provides a place for people to buy and sell event tickets violated North Carolina scalping laws. Greensboro parents Jeffrey and Lisa Hill filed the lawsuit after paying about $670 on four tickets to the Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana concert in 2007, court records show. The popular singer, then a Disney star, brought hordes of children to the Greensboro Coliseum and venues across the country. Many of them left in tears as the concerts sold out within minutes. The Hills bought their tickets from StubHub, a California-based company. Judge Ben Tennille, a special Superior Court judge for the N.C. Business Court, ruled last week that StubHub could not claim immunity under the federal Communications Decency Act and was liable for violating the state’s law on scalping. North Carolina forbids ticket companies from charging more than $3 above the face value of a ticket."

http://www.news-record.com/content/2011/03/10/article/greensboro_family_wins_fight_against_online_ticket_broker

3/10/2011 3:34:57 PM

I bet they're suing for more than $658 minus the face value too

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 3:38 PM. Reason : F]

3/10/2011 3:37:28 PM

Quote :

"I bet they're suing for more than $658 minus the face value too "

They should. Lawyer fees + time wasted in court.

3/10/2011 3:42:02 PM

i would go class action

3/10/2011 3:46:31 PM

Stupid fucks like this are everything thats wrong with this country. They willingly bought the tickets for that amount. Its like suing Morton's after you buy a $50 filet.

3/10/2011 3:49:11 PM

you all are so willing to roll over for anything that takes a little work to challenge. fuck stubhub, i hope they have to pay up and I hope this prompts the NC AG to go after them.

3/10/2011 3:54:12 PM

The real problem here is someone paid $670 for some Miley Cyrus tickets.

Quote :

"you all are so willing to roll over for anything that takes a little work to challenge"

very much the opposite but I think you are missing the point here. They should have been reported for what they did, but the people who bought the tickets are even more stupid.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 3:57 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2011 3:55:04 PM

some of us grew up in households with parents who didn't mind spending that kind of money to placate their children. I'm sorry that you didn't.

3/10/2011 3:59:25 PM

^^agreed. Roughly $165 per ticket (with some room for fees in there.)

That's over 2 days of work for me after uncle sam takes his cut

On the flip side the NC law is stupid. It should be a percentage - like 10% for instance.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 4:00 PM. Reason : ^]

3/10/2011 3:59:42 PM

There should be no law whatsoever. People should be able to sell tickets at whatever price the market allows.

3/10/2011 4:01:10 PM

Quote :

"Stupid fucks like this are everything thats wrong with this country. They willingly bought the tickets for that amount. Its like suing Morton's after you buy a $50 filet. "

They probably bought the tickets and realized they got ripped off later on. Not that they're not stupid...

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 4:02 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2011 4:02:18 PM

but you only have the market because online purchases are able to sellout a show in seconds and immediately post them on stubhub. fuck that.

3/10/2011 4:02:34 PM

Their problem. The laws in this country make it so no one has any accountability any more.

3/10/2011 4:03:07 PM

Quote :

"some of us grew up in households with parents who didn't mind spending that kind of money to placate their children. I'm sorry that you didn't."

lolwut? I'm not sure where that came from at all.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 4:03 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2011 4:03:39 PM

someone said that was too much to spend on their kids. i don't know though, my family was never poor.

3/10/2011 4:04:42 PM

i'm convinced that for some shows, ticketmaster just moves their tickets over to stubhub and doesn't even bother putting them up on their site

3/10/2011 4:05:10 PM

Quote :

"For the Disney Channel's Hannah Montana, or more specifically the show's star Miley Cyrus, recorded music sales accounted for the lion's share of the cash she generated, despite the headlines generated by scalpers who charged astronomical prices for tickets to her sold-out shows. Hannah/Miley grossed $36 million on tour but generated more than $50 million in album sales and downloads."

http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/23/music-celine-dion-biz-media-cx_lh_0123musicsales.html

for 2007 tours

that shit was an epic moneymaker for scalpers

i may or may not have a few friends who participate in such activities

3/10/2011 4:06:13 PM

^^^I don't think anyone said that. I said/made a jest that paying $670 to go see Miley Cyrus is stupid and that is the closest anyone came to that. You somehow took that as an opportunity to try and "brag" that your parents had enough money to blow on things to "placate" you.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 4:11 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2011 4:06:19 PM

StubHub is a disaster. Shows sell out in hours, or all the good seats get gone. Then you go to StubHub, and it's like, so this is where all the tickets went...they're just four times as expensive now. And StubHub's like, we're just an innocent online marketplace that helps connect buyers and sellers. All we do is take huge commissions off the exorbitantly priced tickets that get scalped using our service.

I suspect this family bought the Cyrus tickets because they wanted their children to go to the concert, but they probably intended to sue these dirty SOBs all along. And they're right on.

3/10/2011 4:11:52 PM

You're way off base. Stubhub takes some of the smallest commissions of any online ticketing site.

And realize stubhub isn't selling the tickets. Other people are.

3/10/2011 4:13:35 PM

Quote :

"Reselling event tickets, otherwise known as “scalping,” is not against the law. Before StubHub launched, its founders hired a legal team to research the intricacies of the secondary ticket market. While it is often illegal to resell tickets in the immediate vicinity of most venues (to protect event-goers from con artists), other trading methods are acceptable. In about 38 states, including California, there are no meaningful restrictions. A scalper can resell a $50 football ticket for $500, so long as he or she keeps away from the arena on game day. In 12 states, secondary tickets are regulated—as, say, liquor sales might be. In about half those states, including Illinois, ticket brokers that take inventory (StubHub does not) must register with the state. This protects consumers from fly-by-night brokers who could disappear once you’ve given them your credit card information. In the remaining six states, including New York, tickets cannot be resold above a maximum price premium. A broker might be allowed to charge 20 percent more than the ticket’s face value, but no more. StubHub handles its sales in these states the same way newspaper classified-advertising departments do—it’s up to the seller to obey local laws."

3/10/2011 4:18:21 PM

^^It should be evident that I realize that.

Stubhub enables the scalping and makes tons of money on it, and then they try to act like they're just an innocent player in the natural way of things, as if they don't totally perpetuate and exacerbate scalping. You don't think they made big, easy money off this $670 set of Miley Cyrus tickets?

Now, I understand that you have money so you probably like a system like this. For fans who don't have two hundred bucks to blow on a show, it sucks big time.

^What's your point?

3/10/2011 4:20:51 PM

The best tickets are always going to go to the people willing to spend the most money. This system existed well before Stubhub and will continue to exist well after it. Stubhub is simply capitalizing off of this notion. That's Capitalism 101.

3/10/2011 4:24:11 PM

^^It is a good summary of how stubhub operates for people that don't understand. Basically, until I see more details on this case I think that crucifying stubhub is kind of silly. That basically states that there are only 6 possible states in the entire country that you could possibly make any argument that stubhub violates and laws.

Even in those 6 states, to my knowledge stubhub acts the same as a newspaper, or ebay, or craigslist etc.. They don't monitor to make sure that every single item being sold is being sold at a legal price since individuals are selling these items using their medium. Would you sue the N&O if someone posted these exact same tickets in their classifies for $670 and they were bought? If not, then you shouldn't support suing stubhub.


[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 4:25 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2011 4:24:16 PM

This is N.C.G.S. concerning same...

Quote :

"§ 14-344. Sale of admission tickets in excess of printed price. Any person, firm, or corporation shall be allowed to add a reasonable service fee to the face value of the tickets sold, and the person, firm, or corporation which sells or resells such tickets shall not be permitted to recoup funds greater than the combined face value of the ticket, tax, and the authorized service fee. This service fee may not exceed three dollars ($3.00) for each ticket except that a promoter or operator of the property where the event is to be held and a ticket sales agency may agree in writing on a reasonable service fee greater than three dollars ($3.00) for the first sale of tickets by the ticket sales agent. This service fee may be a pre-established amount per ticket or a percentage of each ticket. The existence of the service fee shall be made known to the public by printing or writing the amount of the fee on the tickets which are printed for the event. Any person, firm or corporation which sells or offers to sell a ticket for a price greater than the price permitted by this section or as permitted by G.S. 14-344.1 shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1941, c. 180; 1969, c. 1224, s. 8; 1977, c. 9; 1979, c. 909; 1981, c. 36; 1985, c. 434; 1991, c. 165, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 232; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2008-158, ss. 3, 4; 2009-255, s. 1.)"

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-344.html

3/10/2011 4:24:52 PM

Quote :

"In the remaining six states, including New York, tickets cannot be resold above a maximum price premium. A broker might be allowed to charge 20 percent more than the ticket’s face value, but no more. StubHub handles its sales in these states the same way newspaper classified-advertising departments do—it’s up to the seller to obey local laws."

So now that StubHub has been hit with this lawsuit, they could in turn go after the seller for breaking some agreement?

3/10/2011 4:25:10 PM

^ that's how I would see it. And if they did and didn't win it would be BS since I am sure the person who sells them has to read and agree to some sort of rules that state they must obey the applicable laws before posting them on their site. If they don't then obviously that would be a lot tougher.

Basically anyway I look at it, even if you hate scalping I don't think you should be calling for stubhub to get crucified.

Also, the exact same thing happens with gaming systems, first book printings, limited edition vinyls, new iphones, foreclosed homes etc. When stuff comes out, everyone has equal chance to buy the items. Many of those people will then sell them for higher than they were initially worth when they are no longer available through standard retail routes. Yet, the only thing that people ever complain about and make a big deal about is tickets to events.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 4:36 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2011 4:25:36 PM

StubHub (and sites like it) make scalping worse by providing an easy, secure venue for people to do it. If scalpers actually had to meet people from craigslist or some random site or sit out in the rain the day of to sell tickets in the parking lot, there'd be a whole lot less people scalping. And then fans would have a better chance of getting tickets from Ticketmaster at a more affordable price.

Yes, scalping existed before StubHub, but StubHub clearly helped make it a whole lot worse at the expense of fans who don't have a lot of money. And if the N&O starts making millions of dollars by selling newspaper ads for scalped/overpriced tickets, I'd want to sue them to. But the idea...that it happens occasionally on craigslist or in the newspaper so it should be okay to happen automatically and with ease thousands and thousands of times a day on StubHub with even higher prices...is not right. StubHub is not the same as the N&O classifieds, and the suggestion that they are analogous is ridiculous.

Also, the argument that it happens with other items so it should be okay with concert tickets is really messed up. Obviously, two wrongs don't make a right. But also you can always buy a material good eventually. Concerts come and go...if you miss it, it's gone...the experience/the opportunity cannot be had again...so it's a little different than an iPhone. And when tickets come out, you don't really have an equal chance of getting them. It's 10,000 fans vs. 50,000 scalpers (or whatever). Yes, each individual has an equal chance, but fans vs. scalpers is totally unequal. These circumstances just don't happen on the same scale with the items you listed as they do with concert tickets. But, seriously, are you actually justifying scalping by comparing it to our foreclosed home system?

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ?]

3/10/2011 4:54:24 PM

Quote :

"There should be no law whatsoever. People should be able to sell tickets at whatever price the market allows."

Yes because there are no market failures in the world of ticket supply and demand.

3/10/2011 5:04:16 PM

Keep your guard up. Suckers should be punished, not rewarded.

3/10/2011 5:10:34 PM

^^^ I think your whole argument is based on the fact that scalping is "wrong." I will be the first to say that I don't do this and I can understand people having a problem with it due to people that actually care about events missing them because of things like this. However, my argument is that to me, in my limited knowledge of the law on this subject, I have always viewed the direct services they provide to be legal (and it's really only even debatable in a few states, NC included in those few). I'm not arguing whether it is right or wrong.

Just stating that everyone screaming for them to be sued doesn't seem to understand how they work. I bet most people asking for them to be sued didn't even realize how few states actually have scalping laws like NC.

Quote :

"StubHub is not the same as the N&O classifieds, and the suggestion that they are analogous is ridiculous."

I don't see why it is ridiculous. They serve the same big-picture purpose and at least a similar level of responsibility, one is just more effective and convenient than the other and charges for this convenience thus they make more money off of it due to a much better business plan and wider audience.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 5:29 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2011 5:11:37 PM

I've never seen any moral problem with scalping; I just get annoyed if I have to walk past 20 dudes hawking tickets on my way to the stadium. Its called capitalism...maybe Miley should try pricing her tickets better from the get go.

3/10/2011 5:23:44 PM

Capitalism is not founded on one group of people largely monopolizing a consumable good for the sole purpose of reselling it.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 5:28 PM. Reason : .]

3/10/2011 5:28:21 PM

^^^I'm only screaming because everybody else is acting like this family is a bunch of litigious idiots.

And I actually don't think small-scale scalping is all that wrong, by the way. For sporting events, there's always been those kinda old, drunk guys hanging around selling a few tickets in the parking lot for ten or twenty bucks profit or even a hundred dollars profit if it's a huge game.

But the large-scale scalping is ruining what used to be a somewhat affordable/exciting/special pastime, and there's just like an army of assholes who don't add any value to the experience at all making lots of money for basically doing nothing, and then there's places like StubHub enabling everything and making huge profits themselves. The only way to make things fair anymore is for bands to put on elaborate ticket lotteries. It's crazy, and I suspect that other states may change their scalping laws to reflect changes that have developed with the Internet.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 5:31 PM. Reason : ]

3/10/2011 5:28:28 PM

It's like the assholes who buy up Wiis and Xboxes just so that no one else can, then sells them at exorbitant prices. If people just bought things to use them, you wouldn't have this carpet-bagging going on.

3/10/2011 5:50:02 PM

It's virtually the futures market.

3/10/2011 6:29:33 PM

^ more or less... that's also a system rife with worthless, profiteering assholes.

3/10/2011 6:30:18 PM

Quote :

"someone said that was too much to spend on their kids"

It's not too much to spend on your kids. It is too much to spend on tickets to see Hannah Montana.

3/10/2011 7:06:39 PM

Quote :

"It's like the assholes who buy up Wiis and Xboxes just so that no one else can, then sells them at exorbitant prices. If people just bought things to use them, you wouldn't have this carpet-bagging going on. "

So dont buy from them, let them lose their ass. Problem solved.

I agree, these people are idiots. It isnt like the first person in line can buy all the tickets. They have limits to how many you can buy.

3/10/2011 10:00:11 PM

i see nothing wrong with it.

stubhub's track record has showed that popular shows go for $texas but really good deals can be found at crappy events.

if you can afford to pay a scalper's price, good.. if not, do a better job next time getting them as soon as they go on sale

3/10/2011 10:14:32 PM

stubhub is granted scalping rights by the original ticket sellers. in almost every event the higher priced tickets are ones the venue sold directly to stubhub for the express purpose of being resold at much higher prices.

its a way to collect higher ticket revenues without the venue owners looking like dicks (even though they are).

3/10/2011 10:30:23 PM

^^^But when there are enough idiots buying to scalp, they get gone quick (within minutes or hours) and then immediately show up on StubHub. Scalping is more prevalent because sites like StubHub makes it easier to do. I mean, even if they eventually get sold like only five or ten bucks higher than face value, it's still crazy that they're able to basically take over the ticket sales of an event. They've managed to insert themselves into the process as official middle men, as if Ticketmaster wasn't bad enough.

^^It's kinda hard to get them first when you're buying against professional ticket brokers.

[Edited on March 10, 2011 at 11:11 PM. Reason : I don't even go to shows, but I'm pissed. AHA]

3/10/2011 11:02:41 PM

ITS THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS>

3/10/2011 11:07:19 PM

Jeffery and Lisa Hill..





OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!

3/10/2011 11:15:44 PM

anti scalping laws piss me off almost as much as the drug laws where is this freedom people talk about

3/11/2011 6:35:26 AM

Seriously, if someone is too poor to pay $630 vs $200 to send their family to a concert, fuck em.

3/11/2011 7:16:17 AM

Quote :

"They willingly bought the tickets for that amount."

Yup. T.S... Eliot.

3/11/2011 9:10:38 AM