Wanted: sports/race car. Must be, at a minimum, "fast". "Ridiculous and berserk" is also acceptable. Must be capable of distorting your face and possibly detaching your retinas with the accelerations it generates under cornering and braking. Must be small and light, so as to utilize smaller, cheaper tires and to not chew through them so goddamn quickly. Must have 2 seats. Need not be streetable or even street-legal, although the latter would be a plus, along with the ability to negotiate a speedbump or a modest driveway incline. Again, not required, and in no case would the car be used as anything more than as a toy a few times per month (and obviously less, if not street-legal). Bike-engined cars are acceptable and possibly even preferred, depending on the car. Needs no heat, air conditioning, stereo, or other superfluous ballast. Must not cost much.


Obviously, the first thing that comes to mind is a Locost-type Seven-car clone. People build ratty ones for a few thousand bucks. Looks like a decently nice one with IRS will be more like $10k, give or take. The Brits seem to have a shitload of track-day cars available to them. They aren't so popular over here. Anyone have any other ideas, both in terms of cars and where to find them (aside from eBay and craigslist...I mean like respective forums, such as http://www.locostusa.com for the aforementioned cheap Seven replicas)? Non-competitive sports-racers are another option, although I'm mostly interested in what other simple kit-cars are around that are similar, in concept at least, to the Seven.

Spec Miatas and Spec E30s are another option, but they aren't that fast, and aren't that cheap, relative to their modest performance. You pay a good bit of money on one of those to be competitive within the limitations of the class rules. I don't give a shit about any class or being competitive; I just want something fast, fun, and economical (relatively speaking) to buy and operate.

[Edited on April 5, 2011 at 11:43 PM. Reason : sorry that sounds a little disjointed...I typed it quickly and am headed to bed.]

4/5/2011 11:42:16 PM

S2000. If you get the desire for more crazy power down the road, just go FI with it.

4/6/2011 12:52:06 AM

http://www.cheapsportscar.net/

4/6/2011 12:57:29 AM

^^ He's done that.

I say v8 miata or rx7 (fC)

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 1:15 AM. Reason : .]

4/6/2011 1:13:10 AM

^FC's are overpriced.

4/6/2011 8:32:54 AM

it is the complete opposite of what you are looking for, but i think you may like it:

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2290285564.html

4/6/2011 9:57:21 AM

Lol. Duke you dont need anything crazy fast. You'll have just as much fun in a miata compared to a crazy stupid fast car.... Which will probably have the same limits as the miata.

Don't get something....get outdriven by a civic.... And come back on here to bitch about "the car".


Now unless you get a car that is the same price... That's another story. But people tend to forget my intergra will always be faster

4/6/2011 10:47:47 AM

^i'll agree with that.

4/6/2011 11:16:08 AM

http://www.superformance.com/News_List.aspx


or lower cost

http://www.factoryfive.com/rdsterhome.html

lol

4/6/2011 11:29:09 AM

seriously, look into this.

http://www.arielatom.com/spec-racer-atom/

http://tinyurl.com/3kl4pj6

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 11:42 AM. Reason : ]

4/6/2011 11:38:05 AM

i guess i was thinking cars that could be street legal through loop holes so he didn't have to get a tow rig and trailer too.

4/6/2011 11:54:54 AM

Quote :

"Need not be streetable or even street-legal"

4/6/2011 11:55:36 AM

Yeah, most of these things are cars that are much bigger and street oriented than I'm talking about. I have some other ideas if I elected to go that route...prob either a gutted and caged S2000 or Porsche 951, or maybe E30 or E36, or maybe even another forced-induction Miata (completely gutted and caged, though).


No, I'm talking more about kit cars/sports racers/etc...the kind of thing I'd almost certainly trailer to the track, even if it was nominally street legal so I could drive it on the road every once in a while (which, like I said, is not a requirement). Think "racecar" much more than production street car converted to track-duty (I know what my options are, there). A Seven-clone is, like, the LEAST purpose build thing I'm talking about, here.

Basically, those bigass brakes and tires on the Z06 (which eats them much more quickly than a 1400-lb car would) are getting to be ridiculous. I figured it up...I used up somewhere around $1250 worth of brakes and tires over the last 2 months, haha.



[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 6:22 PM. Reason : ]

4/6/2011 6:20:10 PM

Quote :

"Must be capable of distorting your face and possibly detaching your retinas with the accelerations it generates under cornering and braking. Must be small and light, so as to utilize smaller, cheaper tires and to not chew through them so goddamn quickly. "

The tire required keep a car attached to the road with a lot of g's is not cheap. the easiest way to get what you want is to get rid of the "fast" requirement.

things that come to mind:
s13 240. dirt cheap motor, easy to boost, could stay street legal no matter what you do to the motor since they're pre 95.
e34 bmw. not much more than an e36 and they're designed to fit a v8 so lots of upgrade paths should the stock motor not amuse you.
e36 bmw. probly going to cost more than an e34 but can be had cheap, so cheap M cars dont even have much premium if any over non-M

spec cars with a decent following/aftermarket:
e30
miata

a couple dream cars of my own that may fit the bill (obviously with more boost):
323gtx - same motor as the miata except a forged bottom end
isuzu impulse rs

edit: lets be real here. you aren't going to race for a long time if ever. someone as financially minded as you is going to have a hard time tying enough money in a toy with really limited resale to get a vehicle purposely built for what you /actually/ want. so why not buy something with low enough buy in that you don't care much about resale and just pay to have someone build it in a reasonable approximation of what you want? 6 point cage, brakes, wheels, tires, suspension and cooling. that shouldn't run more than 3k, gutting is $free, buy something old enough that you start <3000lbs. if you buy something generic enough that engine reliability/repair is an engine swap away.


[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 7:00 PM. Reason : explanation]

4/6/2011 6:52:44 PM

did you even look at my spec ariel atom/VIR links?

4/6/2011 7:18:41 PM

FFR Cobra kit car. Kits are like $13k iirc and donor parts from a stang should be $NC monies.

4/6/2011 7:28:44 PM

^^^ I have no intention of racing wheel-to-wheel, at least no time anywhere NEAR now. Basically, I kinda have an eye out for a Seven-type car, but want to know what the other options are. The idea of a sports-racer type car intrigues me, but I don't know enough about what's out there.

Let's limit the discussion non-production stuff. I'm fully aware of my options when it comes to E30/E36/Miata/S13/Porsche 951/S2000/etc. I haven't ruled that approach out, but I'm not ignorant regarding that option. A no-longer competitive IT-class car might even be cool, but a lot of them don't appear to be that fast, and they're also not that small. They'd only be incrementally cheaper to run than the C5-Z. I'm talking about something that's, like 1200 lbs, 150 hp, and rolling on 14" Hoosiers, haha.

^^ That's the right sort of car, except the $38,500 price tag (also, you have to commit to actually running 70% of the races in the series IOT buy one, and I can't do that. I have neither the experience nor the desire, and I won't be living in NC much longer.)

^ They're cool, but more than I want to spend, and still not that small. If I got something that big, it would be production-based and dirt cheap.



^^^ I had beaten my hp addiction, and had learned to be happy with just good handling...but then like any other junkie who decides to do it again "just once", I bought that Z06, and now I'm all strung out on acceleration again.

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 7:57 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 7:57 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on April 6, 2011 at 8:21 PM. Reason : most true SCCA sports racers are single-seat. I just mean that style of car.]

4/6/2011 7:55:24 PM

If you want a project, this one looks interesting: http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1203344266/1203344266ss.htm

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/complist.htm

Formula Ford cars are a really affordable starting point (5-10k)
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/formulaford2000.htm

You can also look at S1 Lotus Elise's. They run 13-18k and are super fun track cars (~1,500 lbs, ~160hp) though totally impossible to register for the street. Might be able to find a deal on them too.

Honestly, I wouldn't touch a track-day car that's under 10k. The few I've seen have either been complete shit buckets, or are really just weekend warrior cars that people call track specials (the Miata's, RX7s, S2000s et al that have already been mentioned). Just to have a car with a full cage, fuel cell and the fuel cutoffs, you're looking at 7k just for those parts, which doesn't leave much left for the car itself.

And very few respectable "retired" track cars end up at bargain basement prices. They almost always get snapped up by the next generation as school/qualifying cars, and used race cars tend to hold their values pretty long and pretty well.

4/6/2011 8:52:40 PM

Dude you're wasting your $$. Might as well stick with the vette.

You're gonna get sick of whatever you buy.

4/6/2011 9:04:47 PM

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1156885393/1156885393ss.htm


1970 Meach MKII restored by owner, wheller wheels, uprated roll bar, plated suspension, professionally built engine, rebuilt transmission, new gauges, new fuel cell in 2006, re-upholstered seat, new belts, new rod ends, new battery. Race ready testing as the entire car has had a going over in the recent past.

Weight: 1033 lbs
Displacement: 1600cc
Horsepower: 120
Torque: 100

Price: US $15,00




Yes please.

4/6/2011 9:30:07 PM

another thing, duke. without a production car, how do you plan on seating an instructor?

4/6/2011 11:58:21 PM

mk1 mr2 can be had for 1k and can be stripped to 2k lbs or less

4/7/2011 8:10:58 AM

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/vandiemn/1297560331/1297560331le.htm

4/7/2011 8:46:55 AM

Quote :

"A no-longer competitive IT-class car might even be cool, but a lot of them don't appear to be that fast, and they're also not that small."

A. They aren't.
B. They aren't.

You won't find too many IT-class cars under 2000 lbs. And keep in mind that all IT cars must run factory stock engine internals and factory stock induction (or SCCA approved equal; think Weber 32/36 DFV carb in place of a stock Keihin or Hitachi progressive two-barrel). Literally, the only things you can improve on are air filtration (no ram air) and exhaust. IT suspensions are limited to camber plates that don't appreciably alter the shock towers (for MacPherson/Chapman struts) and coilovers. No fancy control arms or aftermarket shit.

I think from the affordability aspect, I too would choose a Seven clone, and I'd opt for a readily available 2.0 litre engine/5 speed engine combo to go with it (I'd think long and hard about Mazda Miata powertrain; yes I know, only 1.8L, but still...). Don't fear the solid axle; it's actually good for holding a couple of suspension geometry variables constant and therefore predictable and easy to maintain.

Fucking forget a bike-engined car. Expensive, somewhat difficult to set up, and too peaky for my tastes. Who the hell wants to have to shift every half-second to keep it in its sweet spot on a road course?

[Edited on April 7, 2011 at 8:54 AM. Reason : IT suspensions.]

4/7/2011 8:50:22 AM

Quote :

"another thing, duke. without a production car, how do you plan on seating an instructor? "

In the passenger seat.

Quote :

"Who the hell wants to have to shift every half-second to keep it in its sweet spot on a road course?"

I don't think it'd be a big deal with a paddle-shift setup, particularly if you incorporated a means of automatically interrupting the ignition to blip the throttle on shifts. In fact, I think that would be totally sick.

...but yeah, a Miata-engined Seven would be good. Bridgeported 13b would be good, too. F20 and associated gearbox would be fantastic, but probably pricier.

Another bike-issue is the dislike of lateral "g". sometimes you can handle it with oil pan baffling. Dry sumping is an option, but rather expensive.









[Edited on April 7, 2011 at 9:13 PM. Reason : ]

4/7/2011 9:12:06 PM

Also keep in mind with any of these vehicles (other than maybe a lotus-7 kit), you are going to be burning money on consumables. Everyone I've ever talked to that owns any sort of track-day car spends a good 500 bucks a weekend in total upkeep. With your limited budget, you'll be spending more than the cost of the vehicle in a single season.

4/7/2011 10:43:43 PM

smooth : got any leads on a mk1 mr2? id love to pick one up

4/7/2011 10:50:40 PM

http://www.racingjunk.com/category/89/Sports_Racer/post/2173248/SCCA-D-SPORTS-RACER-DSR.html


Not going to buy this or anything else, at the moment. Don't really want anything single-seat, but something like this might be cool someday.

4/12/2011 12:41:33 AM