I just had three new thermostats put in two weeks ago while it was still cold outside, before the busy season where they often say they are too busy to come out. We couldn't test the A/c because it was too cold.

Last week it was hot at night. I turned on T2, T1, and T3 in that order. (T=thermostat #=unit number for each of the 3 a/cs) Tested T2 for 2 hours and the air handler was blowing air but it wasn't cold air.

I turned T2 off and turned T1 on (my newest and best A/c) I left it on overnight. The temperature was 87 when I left and in the morning it was 87.

I turned T1 off and turned T3 on (my second best A/c) I left it on for 2 hours. Again the air handlers were blowing air, but no cold air. I did smell burning like heater coils were warming up. You can often smell the dust because I don't ever use the heat because my pizza ovens keep in warm all winter long.



T1 has 5 wires: Red, Yellow, Green, White, and Blue
The expert that installed them put R,Y,G in the R,Y,G places
White and Blue are left disconnected.


T2 has 7 wires: Red, Yellow, Green, White, Blue, Brown, Orange
Red, Yellow, and Green is mapped to R,Y, and G
White is mapped to C
Brown is mapped to E
Blue is mapped to AUX
Orange is mapped to O/B


T3 has 7 wires: Red, Yellow, Green, White, Blue, Brown, Orange
It's mapped exactly like T2.




Any help reconfiguring this to work? I have already turned the circuit breakers off, so please don't be concerned about my safety...nor be overly excited at the chance I might blow myself up.
Thanks in Advance

4/19/2011 12:47:12 PM

Quote :

"so please don't be concerned about my safety..."

4/19/2011 1:07:04 PM

idk if you can post in old school, but if so, try posting in this thread
message_topic.aspx?topic=535582

4/19/2011 1:17:28 PM

Dude finally came out this morning. He made me wait a total of 4 weeks.


But... alas...he got all my units back up and running.










Cost me $575 + I gave him a $25 tip + Foot long sub. I hope he's happy.

4/27/2011 3:26:40 AM

You tipped a service guy? Holy crap you're an idiot.

4/27/2011 11:24:30 AM

^what he said. sounds like homeboy was already getting a good chunk of what you paid him.

[Edited on April 27, 2011 at 11:41 AM. Reason : autocorrect LOL]

4/27/2011 11:40:59 AM

BTTT new question

Just had my AC replaced. I now have a flow switch/p-trap next to my air handler. Just wondering about the p-trap. Should the U-shaped tube from the flow-switch to the condensate line to outside be filled with water or should it be empty?

I am not having any issues with the AC, but i wasn't sure if this was supposed to be empty or not.

6/27/2011 3:18:23 PM

^ There should be water in the trap unless the unit hasn't run in a while and the water in the trap has evaporated out.

6/27/2011 3:23:06 PM

ok 10-4, that's what i thought but just wanted to make sure.

6/27/2011 3:36:11 PM

^ this...

you dear jsos... you have a friend that tests mechanical systems for a living... bounce this shit off him lol.. .

Just like a toilet trap, its made to be full of condensate to keep the outside and the inside separated by water so bugs, smells and shit don't fly up that tube into your place.

6/27/2011 3:39:39 PM

cool. i assumed that but wasn't really sure because when it was first installed the trap was empty and the AC was running and then i started messing with stuff and removed one of the caps near the flow switch/p-trap and the trap quickly filled with water so i kinda 'oh shitted' for a brief second but everything continued to run well

6/27/2011 3:56:14 PM

ALL NEW ISSUE:







Something is fucked with my AC. It has been running constantly for a few weeks and hasn't dropped below 82 degrees. Just got the bill and it is nearly triple what it normally is. Did some googling and it may be that there is a freon leak somewhere in the system.

7/25/2011 8:26:51 AM

^Is air coming out of the vents when it's running? cold air?

7/25/2011 8:55:00 AM

Yeah. It was cool enough to keep the house from catching on fire this past week. But has been running constantly and won't get cooler than 82. Thermostat is set to 74.

7/25/2011 9:16:04 AM

clean your condenser coils

7/25/2011 9:21:19 AM

Could it be a freon leak somewhere?

7/25/2011 9:23:13 AM

Doubt you'd get much cool air from an empty system. I just had mine done and the cleaning really helped though once it was done the system pressures were too low and freezing the unit

[Edited on July 25, 2011 at 9:30 AM. Reason : .]

7/25/2011 9:28:32 AM

Quote :

"Yeah. It was cool enough to keep the house from catching on fire this past week. But has been running constantly and won't get cooler than 82. Thermostat is set to 74."

It might be that's it's just been Nairobi hot lately.

Get a thermometer and check the temp at the return grill and a supply grill. The supply temp should be 15-20 degrees colder than the return. report back.

7/25/2011 10:13:08 AM

^ Good advice. Also, make sure your filters are clean. Also, do what you can to minimize solar heating; like closing your blinds/curtains.

7/25/2011 1:05:21 PM

I'm going to have someone come out and look at mine in the next few days. I have the feeling mine has leaked some refrigerant and frozen the evaporator coil. I just haven't been interested in getting down in our hot, short crawl space to check it out I think I'll also coordinate this work with getting a new wireless thermostat installed as well.

7/25/2011 2:33:27 PM

^If you think your coils are frozen up, run the heat for about 15 minutes. That will unfreeze the coils and usually buy you a few hours of cold air.

7/25/2011 3:39:01 PM

If I knew 100% it was a frozen coil I would have done it but it was hot enough as it was and my wife wasn't feeling well. 15-20 minutes wouldn't have done much to the internal temperature so it would have been worth it but oh well. It was bearable. If I knew 100% it was the evap coil frozen then I would have done it. Still might tonight out of curiosity as an alternative to getting in the crawl space before calling someone.

7/25/2011 3:51:51 PM

^ Wasn't paying a whole lot of attention before. Do you not have an outdoor unit? If not, do you have a water-to-air system?

7/25/2011 5:35:41 PM

The downstairs unit is a split system using R-22 with the condensing unit outside and the air handling unit with the evap coil and the gas furnace in my crawl space. I probably need to clean the condenser coils but that is easy. I really don't feel like getting down in my crawl space to check/clean the evap coil and don't have the what I need to check refrigerant pressure.

[Edited on July 25, 2011 at 6:32 PM. Reason : ]

7/25/2011 6:19:32 PM

It need more freon.

Fixed now.

Carry on.

7/25/2011 8:25:39 PM

^hopefully they fixed the leak.

7/25/2011 8:33:39 PM

Yeah, 'needed more freon' = leak = this will happen again, and probably sooner than you want. Get prepared for a possible $1200 fix.

7/25/2011 8:36:51 PM

No leak. 8-10 years worth was filled. That's normal.

7/25/2011 8:37:24 PM

While small leaks in residential systems that old are not out of the ordinary, you DO have a leak.

These kinds of refrigeration loops are closed systems. If you have less refrigerant than you started with you have a leak period. It doesn't get consumed like a fuel.

Codes vary in different areas and many times residential units do not have enough mass of a given refrigerant to fall into the category of requiring leak detection and fixing by law, but it is still good practice.

[Edited on July 25, 2011 at 8:45 PM. Reason : ]

7/25/2011 8:42:49 PM

I have an interesting one that happened the other day.

My entire unit is outside and is about 14 years old. It's a gas furnace "power pack" (I've heard it called). There's no air handler inside...it's all outside.

So, I know you're not supposed to run the unit if the condenser fan stops becuase you can fry the compressor.

Saturday, when it was 9,000 degrees, the air was running but wasn't at full volume and wasn't very cold. Over about 2-3 hours, it progressively got warmer inside. I went outside, and the condenser fan was stopped. I've had the condenser fan switch replaced before as it was faulty (The 'condenser fan switch' thing less than 8 months old). Either way, took off the covers and the actual 'trigger' or condenser switch was RECIEVING power because it kept clicking and I could see the spark in the wire. It kept firing and trying to turn the condenser fan on. The condenser fan would move a fraction of an inch each time it fired, but never actually turned the fan on....only slightly moved it each time. The fact that the fan was obviously recieving some sort of 'jolt' when it fired leads me to believe the switch is fine and delivering power to the capacitor

I eventually turned off the unit for 15 minutes and turned it back on. Bam. Worked like a champ. Been running with no issues since Saturday at about 5:00. This leads me to think the FAN MOTOR is fine. (Maybe dying or overheating?)

I know these units have quite a few capacitors.... I've seen that some have a 'start capacitor' and a 'run capacitor'. I can only find 1 capacitor, but I haven't torn into the unit. Does this sound like a capacitor problem....and if so...why did it all of the sudden start working fine if the capacitor is dead (dying?)? Is it possible the condenser fan motor just overheated? (I've heard of this happening).


[Edited on July 25, 2011 at 10:10 PM. Reason : words]

7/25/2011 10:00:23 PM

^ Sounds like the fan motor was seized. It's probably a lubrication issue that stems from corrosion/rust. Expect to have to replace it in the near future.

7/25/2011 11:17:58 PM

CarZin

What are your everyone's summertime thermostat presets?

[Edited on August 9, 2011 at 5:45 PM. Reason : ]

8/9/2011 5:19:40 PM

Got 1lb of refrigerant added to my system. I'm going to have the guy out either this week or next and we'll look for the leak. I'm also going to be installing my new wireless programmable thermostat in the next week or two so I can get it away from the TV/off the wall opposite all our windows.

Pikey: hopefully you have found the leak in your system by now. Also, how many pounds did they add?

8/9/2011 5:41:42 PM

Mine go to 74 during work hours and 72 when I get home. Then 74 at bedtime.

8/9/2011 7:07:21 PM

Have had a few issues with my AC

Came home and was 85 in the house, set on 74 and unit is just over 2 years old. Turned out was a TXV valve that needed to be replaced which regulates air temp. ~$400 repair

Later that day noticed the house was warming up again, went outside and fan was not running. Called repair guys back and turned out there were ants that got into the connector. Scrapped the ants out, turned breaker back on and it started working again. This was last week.

Came home today, hot in house again. Fan is not running outside so i took cover off again to see if it was a bug. Blew the area out and still did not cut on. Repair guy on the way which will run $140 for after hours repair. FML

8/9/2011 7:14:15 PM

Summer Downstairs:
83 during work when no one is here but the dog.
78 when we are home

Summer Upstairs:
85 during work when no one is upstairs.
80 when we are home and people aren't over/we aren't spending a lot of time upstairs (gym, bonus room, laundry, etc.)
80 at night when we are sleeping
78 when we are upstairs actually doing something

8/9/2011 7:21:11 PM

Quote :

"Called repair guys back and turned out there were ants that got into the connector"

That's actually a very common issue. I believe it's the fan switch they get into...?

Apparently the buzz created by that switch attracts ants, and if enough of them get in there, it can cause your HVAC to stop working

8/9/2011 7:52:30 PM

^ exactly. he just left and it was same issue. I tried to fix myself but couldnt get unit to turn back on. Of course he arrives, cuts the thermostat on and the fan cuts on. he says when you turn thermostat off it opens a lever and the ants can come out. I flipped breaker, blew them out, etc but didnt turn thermostat off and on which would have fixed it. he said i was the 3rd place today for ants in the AC unit and recommended buying a powder to spread around outdoor unit

8/9/2011 8:25:29 PM

CarZin That's what mine is currently programmed for and i'll manually bring it down to 70 before bedtime on some nights. I wasn't sure if I should instead let it climb to 78 or 80 while I'm away.

^^^Fuck that.

8/9/2011 11:04:26 PM

78 at work
73 at home until 9:00
71 after 9:00 (It has to be cool for me to sleep)

Per my HVAC guy, a 3-4 degree spread is about right and anything more than that you're overstressing your system because it works harder to make that up.

Could be full of shit....I dunno. I would guess if you actually timed it you'd still probably come out cheaper using a 5-6 degree delta


[Edited on August 9, 2011 at 11:33 PM. Reason : ]

8/9/2011 11:31:31 PM

^not really true, especially during heating seasons. There are a lot of factors, the biggest being the amount of time spent at the setback temperature (which is where the real savings lie). But in the majority of cases without even seeing the house, if you are going 8-10 hours for a normal workday, I can almost guarantee you that you will see more savings with a 10 degree setback than a 3-4 degree setback. Summer is trickier due to the stored heat in the mass of your house that will get time released later at night. I usually go for a 5 degree delta for workdays during the summer and more in the winter and our energy bills are crazy low for the size house. Also, most mechanical equipment runs better when it runs for fewer longer periods of time than intermittent start and stop all day. That kills compressors more than anything (which is why having a properly sized system is important).

^^Comparing indoor thermostat temperature settings is a lot more apples to oranges than it appears.

1) a lot of residential thermostats are not very accurate
2) placement of thermostats has a lot to do with the reading and can cause big variations when we are trying to compare to each other
3) the size of the system / how well it actually controls humidity/the wet bulb temperature has a lot to do with comfort at any given dry-bulb temperature. 75 degrees in one home is not the same as 75 degrees in another. The actual amount of airflow, amount of sunlight, the humidity in the space, amount of clothes being worn, etc. can all vary greatly even at the same dry-bulb temperature.

For example, I do HVAC design for a living. ASHRAE is our governing body and they have done tens of thousands of hours of research. Their prescribed (and adopted by most codes) design temperature for most types of normal occupancy spaces (offices, lobbies, etc) is 75-78° Fdb depending on the humidity and other factors. This is the temperature range used for all offices generally. Also, by code, the minimum design temperature that is allowed to be used when designing a residential system with Manual-J is 75°Fdb. The International Energy Code states the same thing, unless you are in some kind of process area (some labs, operating rooms, etc.).

Now everyone is different. Those temperatures are based on research whose goal was to satisfy ~80% of the population. Also, as stated, that temperature range has to assume proper humidity control, proper thermostat placement, among other factors.

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 7:33 AM. Reason : ]

8/10/2011 7:29:17 AM

^Informative post sir. I knew as soon as I had posted the question that it was loaded/unfair but I figured that I could still get a decent picture with a sample of presets.

75-78 does seem to be very common and 76 or 77 at the office never has me wanting to turn down the thermostat or really do I ever even think to look at it. Yet, 75 in my house would warrant an immediate manual reduction. I live by myself in a ~1k and change 2BR and the AC never has a problem maintaining 74 even in 100+ weather (albeit it runs quite a bit if not constantly). Yet a buddy of mine that lives in a similarly built duplex (same area) with a roommate will always have his read a degree or two higher than what it's set at -- usually 75. Hence apples to oranges? Or maybe just an inefficient system?

I really wish I could have picked your brain two months ago when I was trying to figure out if I needed a mini-split and how large it should be for a 6x8 communications room.

8/10/2011 9:03:46 AM

Why did you turn on T3?


[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 9:05 AM. Reason : or T2 for that matter

8/10/2011 9:05:25 AM

lewisje treatin' the lounge like chit chat today.

and ^^ yes there a lot of variables. Too many to even guess between your place and your friends. One thing with office buildings versus houses too is that a lot of large ones will have chilled water air handling units and not refrigerant based cooling. These units often run almost non-stop, while varying the supply air temperature (thus air movement all the time). Refrigerant based systems run a little more off and on. This is making big generalizations though.

Comm rooms can be tricky. 6x8 feet isn't large though luckily. When you get into big data centers it gets really interesting. They actually get into the direction that electronics are placed in the rack rows to create hot/cold isles and such. I haven't gotten to do any of it yet but it is actually a pretty complicated thermodynamics problem. For smaller comm rooms, you generally want to make sure there is no chance for condensation, that the air is clean, and more importantly that the actual room temperature does not vary much. For a general occupied space, you might do a 75 °Fdb summer design temp and a 70°Fdb winter design temp.

For future reference for a generic comm room (switches and routers mainly), I might pick 74°Fdb but try to keep the system at that temperature year round (no winter/summer difference). Telecomm equipment often runs better and longer with consistent operating conditions. I'd also make sure you had at least MERV13 filters and also that you kept the space <~55% Relative Humidity. And sizing a system for that room wouldn't be that hard (if it needed it's own system), especially if it is an interior space. Just lighting load plus the load of all the electronic equipment in there.

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 9:32 AM. Reason : ]

8/10/2011 9:12:29 AM

^If you don't mind, I may PM you later with what I sent the heating and air company and the solution they're using. I didn't even think about condensation/humidity. Do you think a regular office double door would provide adequate isolation to keep from leaking air or do I need to seal/quarantine the shit out of it?

I basically took anything I could think that may come in to play over the next 5 years, calculated the min/max power consumption, converted to BTUs and forwarded it to the H/A guy. It fell in between two solutions and we rounded up.

8/10/2011 11:27:56 AM

Grandmaster, I have found that if you let the temp get much higher in the summer, your HVAC unit ends up having to catch up, which seems to remove any savings you get from running the temp any higher. 2 degree spread seems to work well.

And as mentioned above, this works with cooling only. During the heating season, it seems very easy to bake your house very quickly, so I have a bigger spread when I am not at home (I have natural gas dual fuel heating).

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 11:33 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 11:34 AM. Reason : .]

8/10/2011 11:31:24 AM

^^I don't mind. Feel free to PM me. Is the double-door to the outside or just to another internal part of the building? You shouldn't have to seal it up, just if there are external doors for some reason you would need to account for infiltration air (especially for summertime moisture infiltration).

Similarly, is the room an entirely internal space or does it have external walls/windows?

If you didn't already know it, switches and routers from someone like CISCO or IBM will have their heat dissipation #s published in some product literature usually.

In general I wouldn't worry. Unless this is some critical data center, I'm sure what you did will end up being fine. Just trying to provide some insight for the future if you have to do something similar. As far as humidity goes, just don't oversize the system and it should be ok.

^And yes, during the heating season you can easily go 10°F cooler when you are not there and save a lot of money. Recovery time is small and the energy required to reheat the room is much smaller than the energy required to constantly keep it up all day. During the cooling season, like I said, it really gets a bit more complicated due to a lot of factors. Your greatest savings during the summer are simply increasing the overall temperature. Say, if you like it at 72, bump it to 73 as your lowest and you WILL see savings. (probably to the tune of about 3%). Daytime set-up temperatures in the summer I try not to exceed 5 degrees ever (depending on your house 5 might even be too much). After that my recovery time seems to be greater than the time my unit would have run during the day to keep it at my normal temp.

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 11:54 AM. Reason : ]

8/10/2011 11:41:26 AM

I think I have a heatpump though. So winter savings are limited to the fact that I can set and forget at around 66ish right?

You mentioned recovery time. So when that word flashes on my thermostat is there a significance?

8/10/2011 12:52:31 PM

I really don't know to be honest. My thermostats don't ever say recovery, I just meant the approximate time it took to get back up to my normal setpoint temperature.

Heat pump setback is tricky. You can definitely still do the setback like a natural gas furnace; however, you have to have a thermostat that is smart enough to not simply kick on the electric resistance aux heat when the recovery starts. I wouldn't go a full 8-10 degrees like you can with a ng furnace either.

Sorry, I know a lot of the info I've given is vague, but I don't do a lot with DX units (packaged or split) like home systems use. I use them a little bit for certain tasks, but I'm usually doing larger units with chilled water for the cooling and hot water or steam for the heating as opposed to refrigerants.

[Edited on August 12, 2011 at 6:31 PM. Reason : ]

8/12/2011 6:28:55 PM

Quote :

"^not really true, especially during heating seasons. There are a lot of factors, the biggest being the amount of time spent at the setback temperature (which is where the real savings lie). But in the majority of cases without even seeing the house, if you are going 8-10 hours for a normal workday, I can almost guarantee you that you will see more savings with a 10 degree setback than a 3-4 degree setback. Summer is trickier due to the stored heat in the mass of your house that will get time released later at night. I usually go for a 5 degree delta for workdays during the summer and more in the winter and our energy bills are crazy low for the size house. Also, most mechanical equipment runs better when it runs for fewer longer periods of time than intermittent start and stop all day. That kills compressors more than anything (which is why having a properly sized system is important)."

Thanks.

Yeah, it didn't sound right to me. I'm usually gone for about 10 hours a day. I'll probably adjust my thermostat to about 5-6 degree delta. I used to have it at 8, and he told me not to.

8/12/2011 7:04:58 PM